Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[Lardidar]

Also what if...Stormcast become summonable as they lightning strike in for any order army. Daemons for chaos, Undead for death...something for destruction.

Maybe...just maybe

[PJetski]

2 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Unfortunately, at present, there is only one model with the HERO keyword that has been released in the Shadespire model range.

And it’s a Skaven Warlord. ?

But, for future warbands... it would be cool to see more HERO units come out of Shadespire.

Fyreslayer warband has a Runefather hero

[kuroyume]

2 minutes ago, Lardidar said:

Stormcast become summonable as they lightning strike in for any order army.

That could be fairly fluffy at least. Something like "every time one of your units dies you may ask Sigmar to reinforce you in the fight againt Chaos. Roll a D6, in a result of 6+ summon 5 Liberators. Add +1 to the roll for every 2 of your units that have died. Add+1 for every unit instead if your're playing against Chaos"

[Jamopower]

37 minutes ago, angrycontra said:

The panic mode here is quite ridiculous considering that people haven't even seen the full picture. Couple pointers here:

 

Even when we don't know the full picture, looking at the potential of the little stuff we do know is not exactly a calming thing. Now considering that the main unknowns are Tzeentch and Seraphon, which both have been pretty good, or even dominating, because of their whole army concept (along with the undead) in close to all editions and versions of Warhammer. Combined to a fact that free summoning has also been broken in many (all?) past incarnations. There is understandably certain discomfort in this.

It's also good to remember that due to scenarios and all sorts of synergies in this game, often stuff that doesn't look all that powerful on paper, can be pretty dominating on the battlefield (like how good ability can switching the units on the table or controlled deepstrike for one unit close to those mediocre flying hammer dudes be). I consider many of these summoning abilities to be that kinf of abilities, but of course not necessarily as strong as the examples. 

[TheOtherJosh]

33 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Fyreslayer warband has a Runefather hero

Thanks for pointing that out!

Apparently he was short and I overlooked him? .... ?

[smucreo]

To me this just paints an even larger target on the back of my Death general, and considering he had a pretty big one before this just seems to further emphasize it considering only him can keep bringing back units.

[rokapoke]

@BURF1, if you hate everything GW has ever done with the game, why are you wasting your time with Age of Sigmar and these forums? Some of us here actually enjoy the game and are excited and/or cautiously optimistic about version 2.0 and it's rather annoying watching people dump all over something we know little about at this point. 

[GeneralZero]

haters gonna hate 

[Burf]

52 minutes ago, Jamopower said:

Undead might be underwhelming in a hard as nails tournament scene, but there is nothing underwhelming in them in a casual game with 1000-1500 points a side. 

They're not even underwhelming in the tournament scene, they've been underepresented, but gaining steam since the book dropped.

Since it's completely impossible to kill any of their units and nearly impossible to kill their characters now, I imagine they'll get a lot more traction. After all, when you bring infinite points to a 2000pt game, that seems pretty strong.

Nurgle and the rest of chaos are gonna feel so sad about only running 2500pts in 2000pt games.

[Burf]

19 minutes ago, rokapoke said:

@BURF1, if you hate everything GW has ever done with the game, why are you wasting your time with Age of Sigmar and these forums? Some of us here actually enjoy the game and are excited and/or cautiously optimistic about version 2.0 and it's rather annoying watching people dump all over something we know little about at this point. 

I don't hate everything GWs ever done, I liked the post GHB AoS just fine. I really liked reinforcement points, and I was mostly only irritated at the balewind thing. There are certain things they do that they ****** up every single time, and multiple simultaneous major rules changes and free points are batting nearly 1000.

And to clarify, it's not the edition I'm worried about, 90% of everything we've seen is fine, but the realm specific spells are iffy and the summoning changes are awful. I care not at all if you're annoyed by that because I'm equally annoyed by blind optimism.

[GeneralZero]

keep cool, wait and see!

I am SURE all of us will still enjoy this game after june

[Carnelian]

3 hours ago, BURF1 said:

I hate the summoning change and look forward to drinking the tears of people who thought it was a good idea before they realized that GWs shoddy rules writing and complete inability to plan ahead has left X, Y, or Z army capable of blasting out 1500pts of summoning in a game, watching that get fixed, and then realizing that even once the problematic army gets fixed summoning is still so powerful that any army that doesn't have access to summoning may as well not exist.

 

3 hours ago, BURF1 said:

When you can show me one instance in the history of GWs tenure where a rule change this massive didn't completely break at least one army, then sure.

This isn't baseless nonsense, it doesn't matter if there's more to it. Summoning with free points has destroyed multiple editions of 3 different game systems GW has released. They've never gotten it right, they're never going to get it right, and it's frustrating that they're even trying.

This is the same company that tried and failed to fix the balewind vortex THREE times. This is going to be bad and it's going to be bad for a good long time.

 

3 hours ago, BURF1 said:

GW has never done ANYTHING rules-wise that earns them the benefit of the doubt. Their entire history as games designers has just been 'doubt' followed by 'oh yeah, that IS terrible.'

 

 

 

2 hours ago, BURF1 said:

Dumpster fiiiire. And trusting GW is never a good idea. They're wrong the majority of the time.

I was quoting these to rebut them and then I realised they were all from the same poster. 

Please don't post like this, you are literally ruining the good vibe that has been cultivated here at tga and making this topic really un-fun and agro

[GeneralZero]

then I repeat myself:

keep cool, wait and see!

I am SURE all of us will still enjoy this game after june

[smucreo]

Some here need to chill. The mods have made it clear enough, and have been really patient in my opinion.

Baseless optimism is as bad as baseless pessimism, wait for how it plays out or at least for the bigger picture before bringing this toxicity to the forums. 

[AthlorianStoners]

@smucreo no disrespect intended but isn’t optimism inherently better than pessimism? 

I totally understand caution, but you can be cautiously optimistic or tentatively optimistic. 

Hoping for the best can’t really be a bad thing in my opinion. There’s lots of discussion on the positives or negatives, potential flaws and past errors that hasn’t devolved into pessimism. 

[Gotrek]

11 minutes ago, Burf said:

</snip>

Since it's completely impossible to kill any of their units and nearly impossible to kill their characters now, I imagine they'll get a lot more traction. After all, when you bring infinite points to a 2000pt game, that seems pretty strong.

</snip>

Death generals are nearly impossible to kill now? Whatever is in your pipe pass it this way.

If you are running Sacrament, maybe. It does have an artifact that gives -2 to hit if you're more than 8" out which when coupled with look out sir would effectively make them immune to shooting (except of course to  your snowballs). However, the best the other Legions can do is -2. And remember, every death hero thats not on a monster only has 5 wounds. Not hard to magic/pray to death.

 

Furthermore, even with BCR you can body block deaths ability to summon since they can only do it from gravesites. Stick a sabertusk or some allied grots on top of the grave marker and shut down deaths ability to reinforce. Remember, not only does the summoned unit have to be *wholly* within 9" of the marker but it also has to be more than 9" from you. So, literally a single kitty will shut down a gravesite and theres only 4 of them on the board, even for BCR you shouldnt have much trouble with zoning them out or sniping the general.

[Gotrek]

3 minutes ago, AthlorianStoners said:

@smucreo no disrespect intended but isn’t optimism inherently better than pessimism? 

I totally understand caution, but you can be cautiously optimistic or tentatively optimistic. 

Hoping for the best can’t really be a bad thing in my opinion. There’s lots of discussion on the positives or negatives, potential flaws and past errors that hasn’t devolved into pessimism. 

In life, pessimism is always better because when people and the world live down to your expectations it isnt as disappointing.  However, i do think burf is taking it to an extreme

[ignot]

29 minutes ago, Burf said:

They're not even underwhelming in the tournament scene, they've been underepresented, but gaining steam since the book dropped.

Since it's completely impossible to kill any of their units and nearly impossible to kill their characters now, I imagine they'll get a lot more traction. After all, when you bring infinite points to a 2000pt game, that seems pretty strong.

Nurgle and the rest of chaos are gonna feel so sad about only running 2500pts in 2000pt games.

Infinite points? Only if a game lasts infinite turns, and you keep your general alive for eternity.

The general isn't going to be within 9" of all gravesites, all the time and they won't always be clear of enemy troops. Summoning is also in the hero phase, before you get a chance to remove any contesting units moved in there by your opponent.

If you're looking to summon a huge unit, it means you've just lost an important engagement and are probably now on the back foot anyway. Occasionally being able to get that unit summoned in an uncontested and (probably) unimportant part of the table? I don't think it's going to break the game.

I guess it's just going to be a case of suck it and see. It's a good thing we're getting different perspectives on things but the repeated doom and gloom posts are dragging things down a bit.

[smucreo]

@AthlorianStoners well baseless optimism leads to disappointment, that's what I was referring to. I may have worded my thoughts badly though, as I do think spouting toxic messages online is the ultimate conversation killer and ultimately leaves everyone feeling worse. As you said being cautiosly optimistic is the best course of action imo, since we all love this game and are hoping for the best with these new changes but we need to be careful not to overhype some stuff.

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, ParachuteHopper said:

I think that a lot of the community at large hasn’t realized that we haven’t seen what the new point costs for armies are going to be in AOS V2, or their updated warscrolls.

Yes, a lot of armies are getting to summon units out on the field without needing reserve points. But maybe those factions have their base units go up in price? Perhaps non-summoning factions have their unit costs decreased? Maybe there are astral warriors being added that any mage in the game can summon. Maybe Freeguild Greatswords are going to get 10 attacks each at -5 rend 20 damage.

I’m going to hold my judgement until I see the whole picture.

I'm not so sure.  LoN was designed for version 2.0 and so I doubt their points will be adjusted and they are one of the biggest beneficiaries of the summoning rules adjustment.  Tzeentch will more than likely be adjusted upwards no matter what.  Who knows how they intend to balance seraphon though.  They're the ones I'm worried about.  Giving Slann access to more spells is scary.  Add in summoning and they could go from top tier to dominant.  

Overall I'm anxious because I think summoning is just a tough mechanic to balance, but GW has bought some faith from me with their past year of quality releases, so I'll withhold judgment.

[SlaaneshCultist]

3 hours ago, BURF1 said:

GW has never done ANYTHING rules-wise that earns them the benefit of the doubt. Their entire history as games designers has just been 'doubt' followed by 'oh yeah, that IS terrible.'

Honestly, if you really feel this way why do you even bother playing? Summoning has always been one of my least favorite parts of GW games. Part of that is I tend to play competitive, tournament focused games more often than not, so while I appreciate the cinematic aspects of summoning, when focused on the game rather than the narrative it often tends to feel frustrating and tedious. That being said, bringing pure negativity rather than constructive criticism is neither helpful nor community building.  Especially when you don't know the full context of said rules.

I was at the GW event at Adepticon when someone asked if GW would ever bring forums back, and their response was (paraphrasing) "No, because message boards are filled with overwhelming toxicity". Looking at comments like this, I can't help but agree.

[kuroyume]

25 minutes ago, AthlorianStoners said:

Hoping for the best can’t really be a bad thing in my opinion.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I hope that GW will actually manage to find a way to balance this mess, but I'm preparing for them to fail.

[kuroyume]

22 minutes ago, ignot said:

Summoning is also in the hero phase, before you get a chance to remove any contesting units moved in there by your opponent.

i mean, there's plenty of ways to remove units within the hero phase. Arkhan alone can evaporate most units with a decent Curse of Years, which he casts with a +2 modifier, making it pretty hard to unbind.

[sal4m4nd3r]

Walking into this thread after being in other forums.....

 

[Charles]

2 hours ago, Lardidar said:

Maybe, I'll play whatever takes my fancy if it's top of the line or useless. I still think it will be OK, I'm happy to see undead summoning it just feels right for the lore. I'll also enjoy sending my freeguild to meet them. Archaon being summoned to my game, great...I'm glad the grand marshal of the apocalypse is keeping himself busy (taste some moonclan steel)

We are also yet to see 2018's missions...maybe there will be negatives to coming back over and over. I don't mind if I'm outpointed if my army is set up well to score objectives...never tell me the odds!

Great post, and I love my games feeling like the lore. However a unit of animated Skeletons doing 480 attacks in one turn does not feel anything like the lore it feels like designers trying to make a new net list. Same as Nurgle being twice as fast as Khorne is not a lore based decision it’s designed to make a top tier faction.