Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[Drofnum]

1 minute ago, TheMuphinMan said:

So far these are what worry me about the summoning change off the top of my head

Free blues and brimstones splits so pink horrors are basically 5 wound models with a damage table
Free Verminlord Warbringer from Skreech if he kills one model
Free archaon/12 bloodcrushers/EGDOK  in khorne by allying in  tzeentch horrors. if a single blue dies you get a unit of 1 brimstone so you can possibly rack up bloodtithe fast
The gray shaman summoning archaon
The Gaunt summoner and realmgate summoning

How do we even know if Archaon/Verminlord/bloodcrushers etc are even summonable?  

[kuroyume]

2 minutes ago, Mayple said:

And, as was pointed out, you don't -have- to wipe out the whole unit.

Right, but then you have a unit that is permanently engaged in combat and can't go be effective somewhere else.

[Drofnum]

Just now, kuroyume said:

Right, but then you have a unit that is permanently engaged in combat and can't go be effective somewhere else.

Retreats are a thing and can be useful in a lot of situations even now.

[Mayple]

3 minutes ago, kuroyume said:

Right, but then you have a unit that is permanently engaged in combat and can't go be effective somewhere else.

Retreat!

What are they going to do about it? Slowly shuffle after you?

[michu]

Just now, Drofnum said:

Retreats are a thing and can be useful in a lot of situations even now.

Especially when you play Skaven. Retreat and charge, yes-yes  .

[Jamopower]

It's good to remember that units of 40 Skeletons are not the only summonable unit in the LoN book. Unit such as 10--15  Hexwraiths etc. sound very nice if they can be returned back and I bet people will find gazillion other good ideas about week before the book is released when the preview books arrive to the shops.

[kuroyume]

1 minute ago, Mayple said:

Retreat!

What are they going to do about it? Slowly shuffle after you?

Exactly. Let's say you have a 5" unit retreat and get a 3 on a run. They can move their 4 and only need to make a 4" charge to re-engage and keep your unit useless. Even if you get the 6 on the run that's a 7" charge, which is not exactly impossible or even unlikely.

[michu]

Remember that you can run when you retreat. +D6" movement really helps.

[lolwut]

I am excited that some of my death abilities will actually see play. I have all these neat summoning abilities that are totally useless because i'd never set aside matched play points if my units are slaughtered to revive them. I mean seriously. Who would do that? 

"Well I better set aside 240 points, so that IF the unit is slain, and IF i roll a 4+ and IF my opponent doesn't have models within 9" of my gravesites and IF i haven't already essentially lost at that point by playing with 1760/2000 points, then awesome, i'll get to spend those points on a unit i could have purchased and had available at the start of the game." 

Summoning needs a rework. We don't know how exactly it will work. But the current system renders - at least my army's - abilities useless.

[Hoseman]

Hi all.

If summoning is getting free in matched play will I be able with Alarielle to use his anphora and summon tree revenants or treelords in every turn???

[kuroyume]

2 minutes ago, Hoseman said:

If summoning is getting free in matched play will I be able with Alarielle to use his anphora and summon tree revenants or treelords in every turn???

Yup.

[AthlorianStoners]

Really excited for the new summoning, looks really fun af thematic. 

So far I’ve liked all the changes and trust the new GW. AoS 2.0 looking fiiiire.

[Jamopower]

6 minutes ago, lolwut said:

 

Summoning needs a rework. We don't know how exactly it will work. But the current system renders - at least my army's - abilities useless.

I suppose it was more or less useless because it was already written for the 2nd edition. 

[BURF1]

In the preview they said other things would be summonable and I've already got my popcorn ready. 'We know Changehost gets 2 extra LoCs over the course of a game now, but don't worry! Non-summoning armies can get ONE ADDITIONAL ATTACK ON A HERO MODEL WOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[LLV]

Maybe the reason death have been SO underwhelming since LoN was because they were DESIGNED to take free summoning into account? And the build that has done ok recently? Well it relies on Nagash and not very many summonable units. 

Nurgle I’ll concede look very strong with these abilities, but again I will say we haven’t seen the whole picture, like revised posts and revised warscrolls.

[BURF1]

2 minutes ago, AthlorianStoners said:

Really excited for the new summoning, looks really fun af thematic. 

So far I’ve liked all the changes and trust the new GW. AoS 2.0 looking fiiiire.

Dumpster fiiiire. And trusting GW is never a good idea. They're wrong the majority of the time.

[kuroyume]

2 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

In the preview they said other things would be summonable

They mean the endless spells most likely. Although i guess making free summoning universal would be a way to balance it.

[Mayple]

5 minutes ago, kuroyume said:

Exactly. Let's say you have a 5" unit retreat and get a 3 on a run. They can move their 4 and only need to make a 4" charge to re-engage and keep your unit useless. Even if you get the 6 on the run that's a 7" charge, which is not exactly impossible or even unlikely.

Ah. Yes, if we assume human-speed infantry, which I would be very surprised seeing charged headlong into a blob of skelletons to begin with. You'd probably be looking at something more along the lines of a hard-hitting hammer unit, which tend to be capable of at least a bit more speed than that. Because if you're not going to hit them hard, you're better of not hitting them at all. Skelletons are sooo slow. It will take them all game just to cross a map, allowing their opponent to dictate how, when, and where any engagement take place.

Anyway, you get the general idea. Skelletons, specifically, coming back is the least scary thing that could happen, and there are a bunch of ways of working around it

[TheMuphinMan]

13 minutes ago, Drofnum said:

How do we even know if Archaon/Verminlord/bloodcrushers etc are even summonable?  

I'm saying if they don't change warscrolls/abilities. The dreaded thirteenth spell lets you summon a set up a verminus unit of up to how many models you killed with the spell. The warbringer is a verminus unit. The 8 blood tithe point ability lets you summon a khorne daemon unit of your choice. archaon has the khorne and daemon keywords as does a unit of 12 bloodcrushers. The greyherd shaman has been mentioned to death over the last couple of weeks so i'm not going to touch that and the everchosen gaunt summoner on disk can summon a chaos daemon unit every turn if it is near a realmgate. Just saying that the RAW is going to be pretty sketchy if they don't update/elaborate on some of these obscure rules.

[AthlorianStoners]

8 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

Dumpster fiiiire. And trusting GW is never a good idea. They're wrong the majority of the time.

Not in my experience. I enjoy playing their games. 

[Jamopower]

I don't think the main strength in endless legions isn't exactly getting that big skeleton block back. There are plenty of summonable units so it will give a lot of flexibility for wise players. You can whittle ebemy with "throwaway" harrassment like black knights without much of a risk and on later turns pop up objective contenders etc. I'd say that alone that ability is much better actually on the table than on paper and in addition to that, there are plenty of other similar abilities in the game. 

One thing I think is sure, the cost of summonable units shall/should be higher than now in the new GHB. Especially as they didn't do any ppints adjustment when they updated their rules in the first place. 

[chord]

So the Flame Phoenix can now come back for free (if you roll well)?

[Hoseman]

Is this meaning Stormcast will have summoning too?? From the faction focus, the new Lord on the mount that will come, maybe, on the new starter box

"the Lord-Arcanums heal their fellow warriors and return them to battle nigh-instantly. "

[GeneralZero]

In the actual rules, are there some other summonable units other than skeletons, grave guards, ,black knights, spirit host and hexwraith (in death faction)?

[GeneralZero]

2 minutes ago, Hoseman said:

Is this meaning Stormcast will have summoning too??

don't forget the miniature of the spells that GW showed us: maybe spammable when your army doesn't summon...

Summoning is NOT mandatory.