kuroyume Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 25 minutes ago, nine7six said: sooooo how will they balance it for armies that can't summon and just get their flat 2000 points in matched play for example.... They probably won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsharitt Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Just now, michu said: Well, we believe what actually GW has written on their site, because some things could have changed since that person stopped working there. There's also the possibility of confusing command points with new summoning resource points. Sort of how the rumors of "cthulu elves" were on the right track, but didn't quite get the Deepkin right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 17 minutes ago, PJetski said: It's not confirmed, no. That's what I'm getting at. If you are willing to believe everything without hard proof, that's your prerogative. Discussing rumours and their impact is fine, but presenting them as proven or as a fact is a whole different story... (and certainly makes a huge difference) On topic, wouldn't that boost LoN into questionable territory? Endless Legions and the Master's Teachings seem really powerful, at least on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 I'm still 99% certain there will be at least one problem child out of free summoning. There is so many moving parts that there is bound to be some loopholes with this powerful mechanic. It just needs one bit too easy way to generate those points and you start to regularly see a list that is essentially 2500-3000 point force, which is then obliterated by errata soon after until a new one appears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Explorator Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 23 minutes ago, VoodooChileIRL said: Aye. Maybe a few artifacts could work the same as a one use spell? Though which Factions have no wizards? Off the top of my head there's: Fyreslayers Dispossessed/Ironweld Kharadron Overlords Beastclaw Raiders Most of the Skaven clans Blades of Khorne I'm sure I'm missing a few (a lot of the smaller sub factions) but I think those are the main ones. Only one Skaven faction actually (Clans Moulder). Other than Skryre, that has Warlocks, it is the only one without a Verminlord, who are all casters. I think if we account for allies, only the three Duradin faction currently can not field a spellcaster at all, and with Stormcast mages available when the new edition frops, that gap is filled. So, principlally speaking, all factions will have a spellcasters available in AoS 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikout Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Folks @LLV has been a great source of extremely accurate rumours. That said he is only as reliable as his source(s). It seems that all the summoning armies will accrue some kind of points over the course of the game which will be spent on summoning. LLV's source could easily have got that confused with command points. It will be interesting to see what changes are made to accommodate the new summoning. Nurgle is currently a very strong army and a lot of these changes look like they will buff them even more. It is exciting to see all these little pieces of the aos 2 jigsaw puzzle but it still feels like we haven't got a corner piece yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 By the way, the Legions of Nagash Endless Legions does use command points, as it's a command ability. Crazy powerful command ability that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jamopower said: I'm still 99% certain there will be at least one problem child out of free summoning. There is so many moving parts that there is bound to be some loopholes with this powerful mechanic. It just needs one bit too easy way to generate those points and you start to regularly see a list that is essentially 2500-3000 point force, which is then obliterated by errata soon after until a new one appears. TBH, I'm convinced "free" summoning is impossible to implement in a tabletop and many other formats. I hope I'm wrong but I have the feeling that there will be a very obnoxious summoning list after the dust settles. There can never be a middle-ground in that matter, either it is just too good to pass on or so bad no one touches it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmir Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, Xasz said: That's what I'm getting at. If you are willing to believe everything without hard proof, that's your prerogative. Discussing rumours and their impact is fine, but presenting them as proven or as a fact is a whole different story... (and certainly makes a huge difference) On topic, wouldn't that boost LoN into questionable territory? Endless Legions and the Master's Teachings seem really powerful, at least on paper. LoN will not be able to summon additional troops. They'll just have more insane resurrection capacity than before.... At the expensive of valuable command points of course. I'm more "worried" about FEC who do their summoning via command abilities already and can stockpile them to do lots of summoning (they have warscrolls that allow them to use those summoning command abilities several times per turn) and create 3000p armies out of 2k ones easily... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 It is good actually with skeletons blobs. I hope it'll be ok in AoS 2. It is sooooooooooooo fluffy for death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoodooChileIRL Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Rogue Explorator said: Only one Skaven faction actually (Clans Moulder). Other than Skryre, that has Warlocks, it is the only one without a Verminlord, who are all casters. I think if we account for allies, only the three Duradin faction currently can not field a spellcaster at all, and with Stormcast mages available when the new edition frops, that gap is filled. So, principlally speaking, all factions will have a spellcasters available in AoS 2. Right yes I'd forgotten the Stormcast are Allies to all Order. So I think that answers that though I still hold out some hope the non-magically inclined factions get something without the need to ally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 I'm quite excited to see where free summoning goes. Yes, it's very tricky to balance, but I think it's more interesting than no one using summoning. That said, there is probably going to be a broken way to summon, and it'll end up possible to get a pride of carnosaurs or flock of Lords of Change turn one; hopefully they do a thorough check of the rules, but it will be very difficult with so many moving parts. I played a 1000pt game yesterday and kept track of depravity points* just to see how many was nornal to get. By the end of the first turn, I had taken 6 wounds from heroes (no death), and they had taken 11 (one death, by only a wound). If I'd have rolled just one lower on the d3 then I'd have had 16 points by the beginning of first turn, but had 6. It felt like quite a bit, so I'm wondering how much these units are going to cost. * Obviously we may have gotten something wrong with this point system as it's not out yet, but we calculated it by how many wounds my heroes had suffered from enemy heroes added to how many his heroes had received from my heroes, which sounds similar to what GW had been sayinf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sennyo Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 the only model i am actually worried about when it comes to summoning if the summon does not cost points now is the bray shaman. i dont want them to get rid of his abbility to summon monsters but it will need to be changed in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 LoN article makes me cringe a little. Not sure why, but I definitely need to see the full scope of the rules.https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/24/24th-may-faction-focus-legions-of-nagashgw-homepage-post-3/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 17 minutes ago, Chikout said: Folks @LLV has been a great source of extremely accurate rumours. That said he is only as reliable as his source(s). It seems that all the summoning armies will accrue some kind of points over the course of the game which will be spent on summoning. LLV's source could easily have got that confused with command points. I'm not questioning the guy and I certainly enjoy his content. Just a quick reminder that facts and rumours are mutually exclusive. Concerning LoN and summoning, I just see a Grave Guard unit kamikazing itself every turn and coming back at full strength. (ignoring the myriad of other factors for the time being) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuroyume Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 minute ago, daedalus81 said: LoN article makes me cringe a little. Not sure why. Probably because it outlines how a blob of skeletons will be able to one turn Archaon for the meager cost of 3 command points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillagoreFaceslasha Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 To be honest at that point you should focus a bit on the heroes that are doing the insane boosting. On a 2k game that looks like a third (600pts) of the list dedicated to the buffing, on par with Archaon's cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 So, Death will be able to bring units back FOR FREE. What an insanely and stupid idea. This + the confirmation that you can stack the same command ability (hi, harbringer of decay) is completely killing my hopes for this edition honestly. I'm fine with free summoning with limits (contagion points, blood tithe, slaneesh) but this is ****** and we all know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainNippon Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Yeah, its 40 Skeletons, a Necromancer, a Vampire Lord, a Wight King and a VLoZD who pull off that combo. A crazy combo indeed, but one that hinges on quite a few things. Vanhel's can be unbound (at 30" now), 3 command points need to be stockpiled first, the heroes must be alive and in range etc. It's not this particular combo that worries me, but rather the fact that those 40 Skeletons can be thrown at whatever, deal a lot of damage, get killed and then come back in full strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURF1 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 I hate the summoning change and look forward to drinking the tears of people who thought it was a good idea before they realized that GWs shoddy rules writing and complete inability to plan ahead has left X, Y, or Z army capable of blasting out 1500pts of summoning in a game, watching that get fixed, and then realizing that even once the problematic army gets fixed summoning is still so powerful that any army that doesn't have access to summoning may as well not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuroyume Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 minute ago, ledha said: the confirmation that you can stack the same command ability I'm hoping command abilities will be subject to the rule of 1 in matched play at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Imagine endless legions in a 1000 points match. Destroying a big blob of skeletons or such requires quite a massive effort and they'll just spring back up next turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorticulusTGA Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 The news for the Legions of Nagash are great ! The fact the new Nighthaunt units can be integrated into the LoN makes may beyond happy. Cool too that the Necroquake is mentioned again and that the AOS2 narrative is set after it. I really can't wait for the new background. Really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainNippon Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, ledha said: This + the confirmation that you can stack the same command ability (hi, harbringer of decay) is completely killing my hopes for this edition honestly. They didnt quite say that. They said that you can use a command ability more than once, but it probably doesn't stack on the same unit. If that were the case, the Wight King would still be redundant in the given example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcthew Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Ok. This is where this forum fails on the panic/running around/navel gazing and general misinformation fuelled by GW’s drip fed updates on what the new edition may or may not look like. I went into a GW store this morning and while the manager says such updates are exciting for gamers he concluded that gamers in forums end up tearing their hair out over interpretation and rumour. The new rule book isn’t out yet, but there are some here who are running around ‘like wet hens’. We assume a great deal. But you know what ‘assume’ does. Shall we calm down now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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