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Vortumnas

Death changes we'd like to see in GHB2018

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The next ruleset is rumored to come in a few months, and our alliance could use some amendments.

GW wants to hear our feedback at AOSFAQ@GWPLC.com and the more we voice our ideas the more likely they are to happen.

So, what would you like to see change?

Personally I would like:

- points reduction for zombies and bring back Shambling Horde. This would give a reason to take them and restore them as the cheap, huge tarpit they're supposed to be.

- make the KoS a Legions of Nagash hero, and/or make Nighthaunt an ally. KoS' own fluff says he serves Nagash, why the heck is he relegated to the sidelines by being Nighthaunt exclusive?

-we need a hero between VL and VLoZD. A strong leader, but not a behemoth or mortarch that takes up 20+% of an army. Coven Thrones and Palanquins are just too niche to reliably fill this role.  VL on Abyssal Terror was perfect for this and I'd love to see him make a return!

What do you want GHB2018 to bring for us denizens of Shyish?

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I want that necromancers undead minions for my Flesh Eater Court Heros... 

and my 10“ deathless minion back, nurgle get‘s his 5++ just for free with the unit

 

And else...hmmm...don’t want to be a spoiled brat. Would be nice if they watch out for power creep, sea älves look scary and nurgle is on the edge, not to mention some seraphon shenanigans or the skyfire or the clown car...maybe I should just up my game

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^ death are in a good place man, i feel they are super competitive!

Im ok with how everything is - newer models would be nice & a 5+ death save just on characters would be cool to rep how resilient the army is 

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Honestly, I feel like Death are in a decent place, perhaps some pts drops on some of the less viable units like Fel bats, Blood Knights, Bloodseeker Palanquin, Mortarchs, etc but other than that I feel like they are pretty solid now. 

My biggest wish list is for a v2.0 of the core AoS rules that brings in mechanics to deal with hero sniping so that I can actually run 5 or 6 wound generals and not have them insta-dead. I also pray the double turn gets axed as even years later I still feel that it is one of if not the single worst design decision GW has ever made. I also wouldn't weep to see the 3" buffer zone nixed. 

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- Vargheists battleline for Soulblight allegiance

- Blood Knights down to 240 points (similar thing happened with Necro Knights when they got 'nerfed')

- Necromancer rounded up or down for list building points synergy, preferably down to 100 - taking a single necromancer @ 110 really screws a lot of lists up as you end up having 30-50 points left over and nothing to use them on.

- Agree with shambling horde reinstated

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Agreed, we have some awesome stuff, and some stuff in real need of updates. I have 3 fell bats I've had forever and they just sit in a drawer. It'd be nice to have use for them. Same with my 50+ zombies, I'm not sure how many I have it's been so long since they've been worth fielding.

That being said, we have some stuff I can't wait to see in tournaments. 6 harbingers ambushing in Legion of Night, a one drop army with Castellans of the Crimson Keep, Arkhan and Neferata in some sort of Bloody Honeymoon list.

 

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Hmm I would also very much hope for a mechanic that stops the hero sniping, and in general makes shooting less powerfull.  It would be rather nice for example if shooting into melee would split the dmg equally on both units,  and of course I would really like to see a rule that a unit in melee combat can't shoot. That would also open up for some nice "retreat and shoot" rules for some elite ranged units.

Apart from that I also think we stand nicely, especially with how versatile LoN can be compared to other armies. It is a lot harder to prepare for us I think.... That aside I would also love to have Nighthaunt as Ally for LoN, if just to see my beloved Manny the Mourngul back on the field^^

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I think if you're expecting warscroll or rules changes you're not going to be too happy. GW only change warscrolls when they're being abused in ways they didn't really intend (Grundstok Thunderers). 

Not being a Legions player, I'd like to see the following:
Dire Wolves up to 70 per 5.

Grave Guard down to 70 per 5.

Wight King down to 100.

Vargheists battleline Soulblight.

I think arguably Zombies could go down to 50... but not sure how I feel about battleline even cheaper than 60 points.

For the rest, I don't really know as I don't play currently. I'm sure stuff like the Coven Throne or Bloodseeker could come down if they're not being used, but perhaps the issue lies more on the niche use of their warscrolls.

For FEC, Crypt Horrors/Flayers battleline if appropriate Courtier or ABHORRANT GHOUL KING as the General. Although, to be honest I feel the problem with FEC goes even deeper than battleline and requires warscroll changes on the Ghoul Kings.

Crypt Horrors back down to 140.

Ghouls perhaps down to 90.

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Honestly Wight Kings need to be sub-100 points and even then you probably wouldn't take them unless the core rules around command abilities change drastically, they're so vastly inferior to Vampire Lords.

They'll probably up the points on Dire Wolves but they shouldn't, they're fine at 60. Zombies need something but I don't know that it's being cheaper base, a really really aggressive price discount on the horde? They should encourage huge zombie units, not minimum sized ones. 

Black Knights are a lot better but I'd love to see them fulfill battleline somehow (either in a specific legion or with particular general options) OR not be batteline and come down to 100. In general I'd like to see more conditional battleline options, we have it in the Grand Host but not for the other Legions. Black Knights battleline for Blood could let you do a cool, thematic all-cavalry army!

Coven Throne and Blood Knights could both come down to 220-240 (Coven Throne, like Wight King would be vastly improved as an option if they change how command abilities work). The Bloodseeker just seems like an awful warscroll and I'm not sure I'd take it over the Mortis Engine if they were similarly priced. It could eat a 100 point discount and not be overpowered I'm pretty sure. 

Prince Vhordrai seems a little good for only 40 points over the VLoZD but idk if 500 is too much?

I really really wish the Mortarchs had been given a 3+ save in the update, but they didn't so Neferata and Mannfred feel a little squishy for their price vs the VLoZD, especially after the Neferata spell nerf.

As for Flesh-Eaters, they need a lot of help!

Crypt Ghouls should be priced like skeletons, they're not really any better in a fight, they're squishier, they have worse reach, and their attack bonus doesn't scale all the way up to the size of unit you can actually take making the 40 feel pretty redundant. 

Horrors to 140 feels fair, it's so hard to justify taking them now and I've got 12 painted lol.

Why is the GKoZD more expensive than the TG and the same price and the much, much better VLoZD???

Horrors as Flesh-Eater Court battleline would be amazing, and Flayers as battleline with a GK on ZD or TG would be cool. The courtiers giving you access to them as battleline when the general feels really un-thematic when you're almost certainly taking a GK in some form. 

The scrolls themselves need work for FEC, but given that's unlikely to happen especially in the context of a GH, then maybe make Feeding Frenzy less awful?

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Flesh Eater Courts need the most help.  First off there needs to be point reductions.

Crypt Horrors 140

Ghouls 80/280

Attendants at court 110

Deadwatch 160

Ghoul Patrol 120

Flesh Eater Court 60

Non point related. 

1. Change the verbage to unlock horrors and flayers as battleline as long as the army contains their respective courtiers. 

2. Add two combi battalions for about 70ish points. I wouldn't mind one that requires a ghoulking of any type and an attendants at court formation plus any number of other Flesh Eater Courts units. Let it give the king a second command ability to give horrors -2 rend. 

3. A spell lore selection for completion sake. A nice selection of debuffs, buffs, and mortal wound output would be great. It would also help make up for the loss of the Necromancer support. In particular I would love a debuff that reduces range on enemy shooting units.

Now the rest...

Soulblight: fellbats or bat swarms need to be battleline as they desperately need a cheap option.

Nighthaunts: add deathmages as allies. This gives them access to necromancers and mortis engines. Also, they could desperately use a battalion or three.

Those are my suggestions.

Edited by bonzai

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I want deathless  minions to either be army wide (like daughters of khaine or nurgle) OR kept as an aura but increase it to a 5+. Really annoys me that the "ward save" was our thing and they not only nerfed it (ruler of the night nerf and range nerf) but then handed out BETTER versions to other factions

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12 minutes ago, Gotrek said:

I want deathless  minions to either be army wide (like daughters of khaine or nurgle) OR kept as an aura but increase it to a 5+. Really annoys me that the "ward save" was our thing and they not only nerfed it (ruler of the night nerf and range nerf) but then handed out BETTER versions to other factions

Well the invocation is currently death's thing.

Considering how strong legions of Nagash made death I dont think there will be huge changes to death.

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On 08/05/2018 at 9:39 AM, someone2040 said:

I think if you're expecting warscroll or rules changes you're not going to be too happy. GW only change warscrolls when they're being abused in ways they didn't really intend (Grundstok Thunderers). 

Very much agree with this.  It's unlikely we'll get any warscroll changes through the Generals Handbook as that's not really where they would/should occur, unless GW feel something is properly broken.

Probably the biggest for me would be to drop the Wight King to 80 points.  That brings him inline with similar(ish) Khorne heroes and means we might actually want to field him on the table.  I don't run Zombies, but can see the justification to tweak the points of these

Deathless Minions increased range would be good (I'd like it to increase based on the hero power like DI does, but that'd be a nightmare to write/police).  Either that or allow us to improve/extend it with gravesites.

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On 5/8/2018 at 10:18 PM, bonzai said:

 

Flesh Eater Court 60

Does this battalion even need points? Don't you need to be playing like 5K points to even use it? 

 

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I would love a Vargheist buff in Legion of Night since they fit the theam of ambushing so well. Maby a buff to charge rolls when dropped out off ambush in Legion of Night? This is not a big problem, it would just be cool and very thematic. 

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I'd like to see our underused or recently nerfed units get a drop (the Thrones, Blood Knights, Vargheists.... hell most of our mid-range stuff sucks).

Our troops and our big guys are in a really good place and with the plethora of buffs we're likely getting in V2 I dont think we need anything to be honest, but options would be nice,

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Depending on the buffs, it could make the mid-tier stuff real powerful though. Certainly worth looking out for. Especially considering the changes to command abilities now

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On 5/30/2018 at 1:55 PM, Tobjen99 said:

I would love a Vargheist buff in Legion of Night since they fit the theam of ambushing so well. Maby a buff to charge rolls when dropped out off ambush in Legion of Night? This is not a big problem, it would just be cool and very thematic. 

While I agree with you, this isn't the sort of change we can expect to see out of GH18.  It won't be changing out unit or allegiance rules, aparr from maybe death proper, but even then, unlikely.

Mostly just changes to matched play rules / rules of one, and changes to points values.

I personally am hopeful for points drops on zombies, grave guard, wight kings, crypt ghouls, the thrones, fell bats, and *especially* blood knights.

In core matched play rules, we've already seen some of the changes there, but I'm personally keeping my fingers crossed for the removal of batch pricing, and instead going with per model pricing, while keeping minimum's, maximums, and maybe horde discounts in the form of a cap on the price per unit, regardless of how many models are in it.

I hate batch pricing a lot, and in particular it's the reason I haven't bothered with a flesh eater side list despite loving the faction's characterization in AoS.

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For me it is:

- Blood knight pts reduction.

- Warscroll update so Neferata can actually benefit from her Legion's benefit. (just like the other mortarchs).

- Felbat pts decrease.

- Pts reduction on Coven Throne and Bloodseeker Palanquin.

- Zombie pts reduction.

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Every night I pray for balance...

the changes in v2 are all over the book and pretty intense. If the last handbooks and approaches have  shown anything, then it is: No fun to play against imba

 

most scared about unbound summoning (my nurgle archenemy racks up points pretty fast), crazy command ability synergies (even now seraphon rerolls always everything). If v2 ends up being whoever lands the first blow wins...

I like point wins after being tabled or last chance crazy charges

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Eh, errata's been pretty active in AoS.  If summoning breaks the game in 2e, then I'm confident we won't have to wait too long for errata to kill it, the way the first general's handbook killed summoning in 1e.

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Read the GH2018

Almost nothing changed for FEC.
Tzeentch got hammered, Greater demon now costs 380 and gaunt 160.

LoN are the same, a part for bloodknights that are going down.

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The main thing I always want for all factions is a loosening of the 'Allies' rules inside the Grand Alliances.

Why can I not ally in Necromancers into my Nighthaunt?

Why can I not have a Mortis Engine in my Nighthaunt?

I know the new Nighthaunt book might fix this by making them another 'Legion of Nagash' but this all needs to be loosened across AoS not just in Death.  For instance it is really hard to make a 'High Elf' army with how fractured the old race has become between so many mini-faction.  Or the Skaven... etc.

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