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The end of compendium (finally?)


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Play in a shop? No, shops are for buying things and getting out as fast as you can.

Exaggerating, of course, but count me in as another "unseen" player.

It's weird when people act surprised that tournament/matched play in a shop isn't the only thing around. See how many blogs/facething  posts there are of blokes playing in their garage and parents playing with their children and friends in the dining room.

That really is how GW still act and usually promote their games. Look at people sooking about l 40k battle reports in WD, they use power levels for example.

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Good news for everyone fearing GW will scrap any of the existing factions. AoSRealms-May12-FactionSheet5lx.jpg.14877ce03724906f45c0ff8d8a484097.jpg
A Teaser from the new Rulebook/Primer. Looks like factions like the Swifthawk Agents or the Order Serpentis will stay for the foreseeable future. 

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8 hours ago, Condottiero Magno said:

Saying something is silly isn't offensive, but rather unproductive, just like the massive brown nosing  in the community. Need I point out your post on page one might be construed as offensive? I'm old enough to remember scenario based games where points didn't matter, but what GW did back in 2015 was not well thought out - surprise, surprise... 

You do know I’ve removed the offensive comment and replaced it with the word “silly” ?

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On 5/11/2018 at 2:08 PM, Karol said:

I don't know what size people kitchen tables are, but they have to be huge for them to be able to play on them. Plus what do people do with families when they play, one would have to kick their mom and dad frorm the house, and siblings too, if they aren't in to gaming too?

I've seen many different solutions to the table size issue.  From table tops that can be placed on top of an existing table, two plastic folding tables that can go in the living room.  Another folding table of the same height as the kitchen table can allow a very large table top to be put across both the kitchen table and onto the other table.  It's actually pretty simple to make panels that can be easily bolted or fit together.  Sometimes all that is needed is some non-slip shelf liner to put on the table so nothing moves an everything just sits there.

As for other family members, that seems like a strange barrier.  Not everyone who lives in a given home has to participate in everything that happens in that space.  I guess they can be social and hang out too if they want, but participation is always optional.

I'm also in an area that gets tornadoes.  So it's been standard practice here to build basements since the 18th century.  The ceilings may be low, but it's still lots of extra room.  And since we're no longer heating our homes with coal, even really old homes with coal chutes and drains can be finished like any other interior space.  Some people keep their basements unfinished with concrete floors, but you can still game in those.

When I lived in Vancouver and the space you'd get for your rent/mortgage was way, way lower, I ended up going in with a couple friends and we rented a single car garage behind someone's house.  Where I am now weather ranges from 40 degrees to -40 degrees during the year, so that's not really an option, but lots of places are more temperate.

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39 minutes ago, Nin Win said:

Where I am now weather ranges from 40 degrees to -40 degrees during the year, so that's not really an option, but lots of places are more temperate.

Celsius?  And I thought it was bad in Nebraska...We usually range between 42 to -26 Celsius in a given year (got down below -30 this year).  -40 is brutal.

The dual plastic folding tables with a gaming mat on top setup is our group's solution.

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6 hours ago, Richelieu said:

Celsius?  And I thought it was bad in Nebraska...We usually range between 42 to -26 Celsius in a given year (got down below -30 this year).  -40 is brutal.

The dual plastic folding tables with a gaming mat on top setup is our group's solution.

I'm probably about 700 miles straight north of you.  Nice extreme centre of the continent weather.

Most of the time we also do two folding tables with a mat on top.  Gives a good amount of space around the play area as well.  They go on sale a few times a year and two of them don't take a lot of space upright in the back of a closet.

To tie this back into the compendium replacement not having matched play points or things disappearing from apps and whatnot, I'd advise anyone to make sure they get their PDFs, maybe print data sheets for units you like and just write the matched play points for them from the first GHB or whatever.

The way I look at rules for playing with strangers or for organized play or tournaments is that we would be basically renting the rules.  When the rules change, the product we used to rent is no longer available.  By agreeing to play only with the current set of rules with other people who also agreed to only use those same rules, we would have preemptively agreed to be subject to the whim of the game designer/publisher.  When we stop doing that and take ownership of the rules and use them as a tool to set up games among people who want the same thing out of their hobby as us, then it really doesn't matter if a unit disappears from an app or doesn't get updated points or whatever.

Would I rather an app for AoS have everything that has ever been published and can just warn people it's no longer recent when they go to add it to a list?  Absolutely.  But I do understand wanting the app to be about the current state of the game.

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On 5/14/2018 at 10:03 PM, Nin Win said:

I've seen many different solutions to the table size issue.  From table tops that can be placed on top of an existing table, two plastic folding tables that can go in the living room.  Another folding table of the same height as the kitchen table can allow a very large table top to be put across both the kitchen table and onto the other table.  It's actually pretty simple to make panels that can be easily bolted or fit together.  Sometimes all that is needed is some non-slip shelf liner to put on the table so nothing moves an everything just sits there.

As for other family members, that seems like a strange barrier.  Not everyone who lives in a given home has to participate in everything that happens in that space.  I guess they can be social and hang out too if they want, but participation is always optional.

I'm also in an area that gets tornadoes.  So it's been standard practice here to build basements since the 18th century.  The ceilings may be low, but it's still lots of extra room.  And since we're no longer heating our homes with coal, even really old homes with coal chutes and drains can be finished like any other interior space.  Some people keep their basements unfinished with concrete floors, but you can still game in those.

When I lived in Vancouver and the space you'd get for your rent/mortgage was way, way lower, I ended up going in with a couple friends and we rented a single car garage behind someone's house.  Where I am now weather ranges from 40 degrees to -40 degrees during the year, so that's not really an option, but lots of places are more temperate.

Oh you mean playing in actual houses, like single one for one family. Yeah that is reserved only for the most rich people here. Most people here won't have the space to set up a 4x4 table, not to mention store it. And by family members not being ok with gaming, I don't mean them not wanting to participate, but in general free time after work means kitchen is where my mom and her friends is, and living room is where my dad is, sometimes with his friends watching sports. I mean sure technicly when you are 30+ and move out, you can do what you want. Unless of course you are married, because then what stuff is done in the house is more or less decided by your wife. Now am not saying, no one in Poland plays at home, but it is a super small minority comparing to how many people play at stores. Plus the avarge size of a home in Poland is, I think, much smaller then what people have in other countries. I see the pictures of my uncles house in canada and it is huge. The avarge size of a polish flat is 76 square meters, but it is being boosted by all the people that have private houses. If you cut those the avarge home is more like 50m. Which in 530 square feet, the median in the US is 1800. So a polish home is more then 3 times smaller then anything in america.

And rent in Poland is crazy, in cities your paying if you were living in NY or London, and anywhere outside of big cities there are just no flats or homes you can rent.  And renting stuff at school is a super chore. First of all they can always say no at any moment, and you lose the deposit. Second the cost is 30$ per hour. So a 4-5 round tournament would cost 150$+, and did I maybe mention that the avarge salary in Poland is 700$. You would have to take money from people, which they won't do, because at a store they pay for free, and at a tournament they get prizes for the money. Ah and you have to pay half the money as deposit a month, at least, in advance. People will be paying you on event day, so you have to fork out 70$ of your own, And as the school may always decide they do not want you there, and puff the deposit is gone. Ah and they will not let you bring in under 18 years olds, unless there is school supervision. So now your paying 20$ per hour for supervision from someone from the school, and 30$ per hour for the rent.  It is just not a valid way to play, if you want to play 2-3 times per week, even if your an adult with a job.

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9 hours ago, Karol said:

So a polish home is more then 3 times smaller then anything in america.

To be honest, most houses are tiny in comparison to the equivalent in America :)  Completely take the point you're making though, flats generally aren't the easiest of environments to play in (think an average in the UK for a 1 bed flat is 46 sq meters with 78 for a 2 bed, so it is comparable).

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Damn, I live in Poland and seriously can't believe what Karol is saying  ;) Couple more posts and he end up with stories about wolves wandering on city streets ;) I think you should not speak on behalf of entire country ;)

We have players in Poland who don't give a damn about what Internet forums/fb say (where yes, you may get an impression that only hard competitive play is the only way), who collect models and play at their homes for fun (and they are far from being rich).

In my area we have non competitve AoS and some competitve 40k community. We buy models we like, we play Path to Glory or Skirmish and matched battles for fun.

Personally I like to play matched games for illusion of ballance.

I hate what GW did to Dark Elves (mutlifactions), I kinda like Legends but...
a) I really want to have points  
b) I really want to see more factions (Dwarfs because my friend has a collection)

So that's the input from other gaming side of Poland :)

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1 hour ago, danyboy said:

Damn, I live in Poland and seriously can't believe what Karol is saying  ;) Couple more posts and he end up with stories about wolves wandering on city streets ;) I think you should not speak on behalf of entire country ;)

We have players in Poland who don't give a damn about what Internet forums/fb say (where yes, you may get an impression that only hard competitive play is the only way), who collect models and play at their homes for fun (and they are far from being rich).

In my area we have non competitve AoS and some competitve 40k community. We buy models we like, we play Path to Glory or Skirmish and matched battles for fun.

Personally I like to play matched games for illusion of ballance.

I hate what GW did to Dark Elves (mutlifactions), I kinda like Legends but...
a) I really want to have points  
b) I really want to see more factions (Dwarfs because my friend has a collection)

So that's the input from other gaming side of Poland :)

And this is why anyone's subjective experience is worth a night goblin in an ogre fight when it comes to how AoS is played. Nice to hear the other side!

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1 hour ago, danyboy said:

Damn, I live in Poland and seriously can't believe what Karol is saying  ;) Couple more posts and he end up with stories about wolves wandering on city streets ;) I think you should not speak on behalf of entire country ;)

You know very well that what walks the towns and cities are not wolfs, but wild boars. And they do it on regular basis. Wolfs are only a problem in Bieszczady and hill regions, and no one cares what happens to the highlanders.

 

2 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

Completely take the point you're making though, flats generally aren't the easiest of environments to play in (think an average in the UK for a 1 bed flat is 46 sq meters with 78 for a 2 bed, so it is comparable).

I lived in UK for almost 2 years, the flats are in deed very much like the ones in Poland, but unless they are in really old buildings they seem to be well orgenised with more space. Plus the fact that you don't have to own your own washing machine frees up space.

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22 hours ago, Karol said:

If you cut those the avarge home is more like 50m. Which in 530 square feet, the median in the US is 1800. So a polish home is more then 3 times smaller then anything in america.

Ouch.

My place is about 4000 SQ feet and has permanently set up dedicated rooms for AoS, 40K, Star Wars games, a Shadespire/Blood Bowl combo, zombicide and Arcadia quest games, and a rotating game of the month. Plus, we have a full time painting studio and a construction and priming room.

I'm also lucky that my gf is a keen hobbyist as well, so there's no competition for space.

We pretty much never play in stores. It's almost always at the house if someone in our group as several of us can host 6 or more games at once.

I say all this just because it shows just how different all our experiences can be here in a global forum. I dunno ... helps me keep perspective anyway.

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5 hours ago, Sleboda said:

We pretty much never play in stores. It's almost always at the house if someone in our group as several of us can host 6 or more games at once.

We'll, you don't exist then, because some random dude didn't see you at the local store when he was there three years ago :)

 

Sounds like a great setup, jealous. Proper wargaming, as far as I'm concerned. 

On compendium lists. I guess if they did a half-hearted attempt at points, there would be a couple of slip-ups and "must include" units for models they don't sell, and would end up copping as much flak than no points at all.

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8 minutes ago, Lousy Beatnik said:

On compendium lists. I guess if they did a half-hearted attempt at points, there would be a couple of slip-ups and "must include" units for models they don't sell, and would end up copping as much flak than no points at all.

I think this is indeed the essence. From a money making point of view GW should just drop those armies. Clean cut, your not selling them and they are costing resources to keep up to date. From a branding and community point of view GW should keep them available to make it easier for former fantasy players to keep attached to GW, but again keeping it up to date requires continious resources. 

So this is the perfect compromise from GW's standpoint. They honour the players who invested in those armies in year gone by and only have to deliver a one time (mostly) resource investment. Points are just to expensive the create and keep up to date. 

I'm very happy they it least made this effort. 

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12 hours ago, Kramer said:

I think this is indeed the essence. From a money making point of view GW should just drop those armies. Clean cut, your not selling them and they are costing resources to keep up to date. From a branding and community point of view GW should keep them available to make it easier for former fantasy players to keep attached to GW, but again keeping it up to date requires continious resources. 

So this is the perfect compromise from GW's standpoint. They honour the players who invested in those armies in year gone by and only have to deliver a one time (mostly) resource investment. Points are just to expensive the create and keep up to date. 

I'm very happy they it least made this effort. 

The only two armies that would need points and updates are TK and Brets (since they are full armies), the rest can live without a few models TBH.

 

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