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The end of compendium (finally?)


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I think Warhammer Legends is fantastic. The rules are really nice and they're free. As I've said many times before, I think AoS is best with open play cards and a relaxed atmosphere. Agree to a wound limit without points and play open play cards and have a really fun game with your old army. 

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This idea of wounds instead of points is silly. My 2000pt army has about 250 wounds. I've never even had a pick-up game without points - points are very necessary. Even warhammer world narrative events use points. 

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35 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

This idea of wounds instead of points is silly. My 2000pt army has about 250 wounds. I've never even had a pick-up game without points - points are very necessary. Even warhammer world narrative events use points. 

Do you need to be offensive?

His idea was to get a rough balance, if you understand the mechanic you can adjust what you would take to make a 'better' army.  Regardless its enough to get a game started and playing, which considering he was talking about open play is more than enough to get started.

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35 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

This idea of wounds instead of points is silly. My 2000pt army has about 250 wounds. I've never even had a pick-up game without points - points are very necessary. Even warhammer world narrative events use points. 

Warhammer world hosted events prior to points being used.  Of course the community (old guard typically) demanded points, so points were given.. now there are complaints about points...GW can't win

And please don't be offensive

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36 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

This idea of wounds instead of points is silly. My 2000pt army has about 250 wounds. I've never even had a pick-up game without points - points are very necessary. Even warhammer world narrative events use points. 

Please do not make comments like that as it can be quite offensive. Also we want this form to be for everybody so constructive comments is what we want to see

PS - As mentioned by @chord, Warhammer World did host events without points.

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46 minutes ago, stato said:

His idea was to get a rough balance, if you understand the mechanic you can adjust what you would take to make a 'better' army.  Regardless its enough to get a game started and playing, which considering he was talking about open play is more than enough to get started.

Oh yes, because everyone knows that AoS period of time when it had completely no points was great time (and great game) ^^ 

Apologist in full overdrive xD

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5 minutes ago, eciu said:

Oh yes, because everyone knows that AoS period of time when it had completely no points was great time (and great game) ^^ 

Apologist in full overdrive xD

I cant really tell but it seems you are trying to be sarcastic?

Ive only been playing 18months so dont know the history, but ive played the different methods of play and all of them suffer from balance in some way so dont really get the complaint that one is worse than another.  The people i play were playing in the transition and did have a hard time getting their heads around it, but eventually did and loved it, and still do.  My first army for AoS was repainting my late 90's bretonnians and buying more via ebay, so im impacted by this as much as anyone, but ill still play them with or without points and can say 100% ill have a damn good time too.

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4 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

This. Absolutely this.

This isn't about not being able to play Brets/TK at a tournament (I mean, seriously, who would?), but being no longer included within the common language (i.e. points) for quickly organizing pick-up games in FLGS and clubs.

History has born out that "former points", "fan-made points" and "unpointed" rarely gain any traction and/or acceptance within a pick-up environment.

Who knows, though. The points removal hasn't actually happened yet for these two factions. Maybe GW will not include them in Legends, or have them in Legends/Compendium simultaneously.

Fingers crossed.

Pretty much this, my meta is super casual, never organized any tournament, but AoS was literally dead before points release because none knew how to make a semblance of balanced games without them and there was 0 interest in making investments based on the fan made ones when other game systems existed. Even if it's completely non-competitive and rarely updated I would appreciate there was still some form of offical legacy points for older models
 

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On a somewhat related note I really wonder what's in store for the future of older fantasy miniatures that technically still present in the setting, specially all the mini factions such as Lion Rangers.  On one side I can't see factions like Freeguild and Ironweld going anywhere, they are still present in the lore, they are in the books, hell the Lord-ordinator was made pretty much to work with ironweld stuff, they are for all effects and purposed the Imperial Guard of this setting. On the other hand there is stuff like the Swifthawk Agents, that despite being present in the AoS lore and on the Firstorm stuff, the vast majority of their models are not available to sale anymore (Reavers,Spireguard,etc... Spire of Dawn is not on sale anymore) . My old WHFB army was high elves (now split between Swifthawk, Eldritch, Draconis,etc...)and I have been happily playing them in AoS with Tempests Eye Allegiance, but I am really afraid of seeing them squatted.

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55 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

I enjoyed it ;) 

I don't want to be picky but human race has an interesting quirk of always having some  people enjoying something ... no matter what it exaclty is.... 
 

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11 minutes ago, Alith said:

On a somewhat related note I really wonder what's in store for the future of older fantasy miniatures that technically still present in the setting, specially all the mini factions such as Lion Rangers.  On one side I can't see factions like Freeguild and Ironweld going anywhere, they are still present in the lore, they are in the books, hell the Lord-ordinator was made pretty much to work with ironweld stuff, they are for all effects and purposed the Imperial Guard of this setting. On the other hand there is stuff like the Swifthawk Agents, that despite being present in the AoS lore and on the Firstorm stuff, the vast majority of their models are not available to sale anymore (Reavers,Spireguard,etc... Spire of Dawn is not on sale anymore) . My old WHFB army was high elves and I have been happily playing them in AoS with Tempests Eye Allegiance, but I am really afraid of seeing them squatted.

Thats the focus of the issue for many.  Folks have taken legends as a threat to their 'not fully' support factions.

GW have said its the end for old-world factions, but in my eyes that means High -Elves not Swifthawks, Orcs and Goblins not Spider-Fang.  

I understand they are worried, but there is a lot of presumption being thrown around that model ranges will be culled and AoS-ified factions removed.

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4 minutes ago, stato said:

Thats the focus of the issue for many.  Folks have taken legends as a threat to their 'not fully' support factions.

GW have said its the end for old-world factions, but in my eyes that means High -Elves not Swifthawks, Orcs and Goblins not Spider-Fang.  

I understand they are worried, but there is a lot of presumption being thrown around that model ranges will be culled and AoS-ified factions removed.

I want to believe that but on the other hand Exiles were a thing in AoS and they were removed

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59 minutes ago, eciu said:

I don't want to be picky but human race has an interesting quirk of always having some  people enjoying something ... no matter what it exaclty is.... 
 

I do believe that you are being picky but I just wanted to say that I enjoyed the period without points. I think the key thing to remember is that you don't need to have points to have fun but if that's how you like to play that's fine. Just remember that we have the three ways of playing (Open, Narrative and Matched) and whilst some units/armies are being moved into Open Play due to not having any points, you can still use them. If you enjoy just only doing Matched Play, there is nothing wrong with you coming up with your own points and using them, just as long as your opponent is okay with that. Most people will be (assuming that you don't price everything a low points!!!).

At the end of the day, GW are a business making games and models and they want you to go and buy new models so they make money to make more new models. In one of these threads, somebody has likened this to having a new games console where the old games aren't compatible with the new console but GW have given you a way to still use your old games through open play. I do sympathize with people who have large old armies that they still want to use, but you just need to remember that you can but they aren't going to get any more updates now. I think GW have done the right thing by parking them as legacy models and moving on with new stuff.

Now with my mod hat in my hands I do need to add - Can you please bring to the discussion more than the one line sarcastic comments you have been doing so far. As I have mentioned I do sympathize with you but we want TGA to be a place for everybody and by replying in discussions in such a way alienates you as it makes you come across being quite angry. People don't normally want to engage with people being angry and it doesn't make the board a pleasant place to visit. I'm aware that no matter what positive spin I put on this, you probably won't see it that way and that is fine. Just remember to be constructive with your comments and remember that others may be seeing this differently to yourself ;) 

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The arguement of "2/3 game types allow you to play the army you spent time and money on.. only 1/3 doesnt" is so dumb when probably 90% of the games played in clubs and shops are matched play. GW gambled on turning WHFB into a narrative game and failed MISERABLY. So eradicating entire swaths of peoples collections slowly is just so offensive. Either do it and remove them or dont. But this slow drain/erosion of a collection by "pointing" them out of the game is a slap in the face. Warhammer legends seems like a waste of time and just a way for some GW Facebook stooge to point to something when people complain (rightfully so) about their old world collections having been invalidated. I bet half the people

@Kamose "Let's be clear.  GW have provided updates to rules and/or points for models they do not sell and make no money from, 3 times now.  The only benefit they receive from doing this is community goodwill and the chance to keep fans who may make future purchases."

Just because they dont make money on future purchases.. you think that compendium army players deserve to have their previous purchases invalidated?? GOODWILL? lol ok. So Its SOOO nice of the altruistic games workshop to bless us with the MOST BASIC support of writing a list of points to actually play the game. Give me a break. Its not good will if customers have spent money and time supporting a line. Its their damn business model. 

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6 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

I do believe that you are being picky but I just wanted to say that I enjoyed the period without points

You are in the VAST minority here. There is simply no way to balance a game without points. And I shouldnt have to have a socratic argument with someone before a game in the HOPES it will be fair. The company gambled on this way to play and FAILED for a reason. It was dumb. 

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I enjoyed it way more before points than after. BUT I never played any table top wargame prior to that.  In our community points has slowly been killing off the community. (down to a handful of people)

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7 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

You are in the VAST minority here. There is simply no way to balance a game without points. And I shouldnt have to have a socratic argument with someone before a game in the HOPES it will be fair. The company gambled on this way to play and FAILED for a reason. It was dumb. 

Well, technically, it may have been a success.  GW is about return on capital.  So if the original Age of Sigmar launch gave them a return on capital (the money invested in designing and producing the game and miniatures and getting it to the point of sale) better than 8th edition Warhammer Fantasy did, it was a success.  The fact that they then embraced more ways to play and that let the game be enjoyed by more people wasn't turning a failure into a success but a success into an even greater success.

Miniature wargames didn't start with warhammer.  In it's modern form it goes back to the late 1950s with another period of play during the late 1800s to around 1915.  Points didn't exist for many, many of those decades and people still were able to enjoy their hobby.  There currently are very popular historical wargames that don't use points.  There always have been.
 

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14 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

You are in the VAST minority here. There is simply no way to balance a game without points. And I shouldnt have to have a socratic argument with someone before a game in the HOPES it will be fair. The company gambled on this way to play and FAILED for a reason. It was dumb. 

This is true, clash comp kept the game afloat for the many which was then refined with SCGT comp and finally GHB1.

Giving legends there own place in the rule set is a good move. I just hope the replacements are just as well rounded and fully realised lists.

 

PS: sarcasm not allowed on TGA? ?

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Tbh, I don't see why anyone would be against Warhammer Legends, besides not wanting to take part in it, in which case they could just ignore and move on.

The pdf most likely requires no ressources as it is mostly copy pasted info with no points (test/balance not required?). Miniature wise, Made to Order is free money for using old molds that are otherwise collecting dust. So a win for GW. Plus it might push into AoS people that have old collections or motivate people to expand what they already have. So a win again for GW. If no points is an issue, with the GHBs it is extremely easy to more or less know what Legends warscrolls "should" be costed if it is sooo necessary.

I obviously have no clue about GW's business strategy (just like anyone here), but if they made the decision of adding Warhammer Legends following that big survey there must be a good reason, right? Or does someone here think they know better than them? ;)  

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