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What is the best Battleline in the game, and why is it Namarti Thralls?


Scrags

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1 hour ago, Scrags said:

 

Yeah! I know bloodletter balls were super popular for a while with Sayl the Faithless. Are they still going strong? I feel like a big issue was their survivability.

 

With the proper support, they can be extra deadly!

Grab a WoK BT and a Stoker and you'll be charging up a unit of 30 Letters into the enemy's face in no time.

Extra survivability? Blood Bless with a +1 to save from  a Slaughterpriest.

I'm glad they stopped that Sayl shenanigan. It's so un-Khorne-like. :P

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19 minutes ago, Scrags said:

I'm not familiar with Saurus Guard, whats their deal?

Saurus Guard, currently pointed at 100 for 5 models for a Seraphon-only Battleline unit...

5" move, 4+ Save, Bravery 10, 1 wound apiece.

2 attacks each (though the unit leader gets a 3rd attack) with their Polearms, 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, rend -1, 1 damage. 1 attack each with their Jaws and Shield, 5+ to hit, 4+ to wound, no rend, 1 damage.

A banner-bearer makes enemy units within 5" of it add 1 to their battleshock test rolls. A drummer allows you to double your movement instead of rolling a D6 to run.

Shields (standard issue) ignore Rend -1.

Being within 8" of a Seraphon HERO gets you +2 Bravery and +1 to your  save rolls -- effectively, you're on a 3+ Save, and you can add Mystic Shield and/or cover to boost it further.

Honestly, for my money, I can't say flat out that Thralls are better. Maybe that's just me. And maybe I'm ignoring a lot of Deepkin synergy -- I know a lot of the Seraphon synergy that can further boost the Guard.

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1 hour ago, rokapoke said:

Saurus Guard, currently pointed at 100 for 5 models for a Seraphon-only Battleline unit...

5" move, 4+ Save, Bravery 10, 1 wound apiece.

2 attacks each (though the unit leader gets a 3rd attack) with their Polearms, 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, rend -1, 1 damage. 1 attack each with their Jaws and Shield, 5+ to hit, 4+ to wound, no rend, 1 damage.

A banner-bearer makes enemy units within 5" of it add 1 to their battleshock test rolls. A drummer allows you to double your movement instead of rolling a D6 to run.

Shields (standard issue) ignore Rend -1.

Being within 8" of a Seraphon HERO gets you +2 Bravery and +1 to your  save rolls -- effectively, you're on a 3+ Save, and you can add Mystic Shield and/or cover to boost it further.

Honestly, for my money, I can't say flat out that Thralls are better. Maybe that's just me. And maybe I'm ignoring a lot of Deepkin synergy -- I know a lot of the Seraphon synergy that can further boost the Guard.

Ah ok cool yeah they sound pretty decent :)

So heres a challenge for everyone; we've had a few other factions pop up here and there and I know that this is the Order forum, but can anyone think of good battle line that AREN'T Order? :P Does Order just have the monopoly on battle line or are there any MVP units from other factions? The ones I remember mentioned so far are Skeletons and Plaguebearers (and someone is going to have to teach me how to play PBs apparently cuz I main Nurgle Demons and I still feel they're kinda meh. Tough for sure, but meh imho ;D

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35 minutes ago, Scrags said:

Ah ok cool yeah they sound pretty decent :)

So heres a challenge for everyone; we've had a few other factions pop up here and there and I know that this is the Order forum, but can anyone think of good battle line that AREN'T Order? :P Does Order just have the monopoly on battle line or are there any MVP units from other factions? The ones I remember mentioned so far are Skeletons and Plaguebearers (and someone is going to have to teach me how to play PBs apparently cuz I main Nurgle Demons and I still feel they're kinda meh. Tough for sure, but meh imho ;D

I think you'd have to add Bloodletters into that mix.  They are more than just a tax, they are an actual threat.

If "cheap" is a useful role (which IMO it is, because of what it does for list building), then along with Skinks you could add Dire Wolves and Marauders into the mix.  Marauders obviously aren't amazing but they can take a Mark which is useful for filling Batallion requirements as well as synergies.

The absence of "here are my cheap bodies for 60 points to fill up a slot" is one of the many gaping holes in Destruction at the moment.  IMO the best in that GA is 60x Gitmob archers (backed up by a Gitmob Shaman).  If his 7+ warscroll spell goes off they can actually do something, along with offering screening and board control etc.  

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1 hour ago, Scrags said:

Ah ok cool yeah they sound pretty decent :)

So heres a challenge for everyone; we've had a few other factions pop up here and there and I know that this is the Order forum, but can anyone think of good battle line that AREN'T Order? :P Does Order just have the monopoly on battle line or are there any MVP units from other factions? The ones I remember mentioned so far are Skeletons and Plaguebearers (and someone is going to have to teach me how to play PBs apparently cuz I main Nurgle Demons and I still feel they're kinda meh. Tough for sure, but meh imho 

 

Tzeentch: pink horrors.  They're a wizard, have a shooting attack, split into blue horrors, and have a chance to regain models on battleshock.

Nurgle: Plague bearers and blight Kings.  Both tough as nails.

Death: skeletons.  40 blocks are only 280 points and can regenerate like you wouldn't believe.  Dire wolves: 60 points for 10 wounds of fast-ish models.  

Order most certainly does not have a monopoly on good battle line and what I listed was just the low hanging fruit.

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3 hours ago, Scrags said:

Ah ok cool yeah they sound pretty decent :)

So heres a challenge for everyone; we've had a few other factions pop up here and there and I know that this is the Order forum, but can anyone think of good battle line that AREN'T Order? :P Does Order just have the monopoly on battle line or are there any MVP units from other factions? The ones I remember mentioned so far are Skeletons and Plaguebearers (and someone is going to have to teach me how to play PBs apparently cuz I main Nurgle Demons and I still feel they're kinda meh. Tough for sure, but meh imho ;D

Skellies are insanely good, as well as dire wolves (basically liberators, only twice as fast and can come back to life, for 40% cheaper. Lol)

Chaos has good battelines too : maraudeurs, bloodletters, i would even say bloodwarriors who are the nightmare of any light armored infantry (i think thrall will hate them)

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After seeing yesterday two units of 40 skinks with javelins easily bringing down my Rouge Idol of Gork in a single shooting phase I have to say the little annoying lizards are  among the best. 

For 200 points you get 40 attacks at 3+/4+, with a 5+ save (ignoring rend) and the super annoying free retreat from combat trait. Add to this the  teleporting and its a nightmare to deal with

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Richelieu said:

 

Tzeentch: pink horrors.  They're a wizard, have a shooting attack, split into blue horrors, and have a chance to regain models on battleshock.

Nurgle: Plague bearers and blight Kings.  Both tough as nails.

Death: skeletons.  40 blocks are only 280 points and can regenerate like you wouldn't believe.  Dire wolves: 60 points for 10 wounds of fast-ish models.  

Order most certainly does not have a monopoly on good battle line and what I listed was just the low hanging fruit.

Splitting up Pink horrors costs reinforcement points. But they are very strong. I agree.

Skeletons and Dire Wolves benefit also from Graves.  Very resilent. 

Skinks are superb Battleline for Order. 40 Skinks for 200 Points. With and Astrolith Bearer, they have 40 Shots with Javelins on 3+, can Reroll 1s and Wound on a 4+. They ignore Rend and can be buffed  by a Slann.  (3 Times Mystic shield!) 3-4 full Blocks. You charge in the first block.  Thanks to their bravery it's hard to wipe them out fast. And the others Blocks can also come close and shoot. 8' Movement is perfect. 

 

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3 hours ago, Aex said:

Splitting up Pink horrors costs reinforcement points. But they are very strong. I agree.

Skeletons and Dire Wolves benefit also from Graves.  Very resilent. 

Skinks are superb Battleline for Order. 40 Skinks for 200 Points. With and Astrolith Bearer, they have 40 Shots with Javelins on 3+, can Reroll 1s and Wound on a 4+. They ignore Rend and can be buffed  by a Slann.  (3 Times Mystic shield!) 3-4 full Blocks. You charge in the first block.  Thanks to their bravery it's hard to wipe them out fast. And the others Blocks can also come close and shoot. 8' Movement is perfect. 

 

Split don't cost point if there is a blue horror unit around (if it doesn't have max moels of course)

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Well for 120 you can get 20 marauders who (at this unit size) have a 3+ chance to get plus +1 to hit and a 5+ chance to get +1 yo wound as well. Along side the re roll ones to hit and 5+ save. That's just the basic warscroll rolls. 

So as good as thralls look...no. They are definitely not the best by a long shot. I too would say skinks or free guild guard are most likely the best (taken in isolation of course)

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I think this thread points to a very positive aspect of AoS, namely that battleline units tend to be quite good and relatively balanced across factions and Grand Alliances (sorry Destruction).   A quick scan of this thread shows 20 different units that one or more forum members believe are in the top tier for battleline.

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3 hours ago, Richelieu said:

I think this thread points to a very positive aspect of AoS, namely that battleline units tend to be quite good and relatively balanced across factions and Grand Alliances (sorry Destruction).   A quick scan of this thread shows 20 different units that one or more forum members believe are in the top tier for battleline.

Hahaha yeah its true! I know I've been showing it to people across our local game store to good wholesome debate results :P

3 hours ago, BrocknerTheBear said:

Well for 120 you can get 20 marauders who (at this unit size) have a 3+ chance to get plus +1 to hit and a 5+ chance to get +1 yo wound as well. Along side the re roll ones to hit and 5+ save. That's just the basic warscroll rolls. 

Yeah I've been looking into Marauders for filling out my Nurgle mortals lists. Blightkings are great but there are times you just need a bit more models on the table :P they seem to have really good synergy with Khorne via Bloodsecrators which spikes their potential damage output, also fixes their bravery problems. I'm having a bit of a harder time finding the natural Nurgle synergies, but I'd love to hear suggestions.

15 hours ago, Planar said:

For 200 points you get 40 attacks at 3+/4+, with a 5+ save (ignoring rend) and the super annoying free retreat from combat trait. Add to this the  teleporting and its a nightmare to deal with

Wow! Yeah thats nasty, I know someone on here was also talking about Saurus Warriors too, I'm glad I haven't had to face the Seraphon player in our Map Campaign yet although it's only a matter of time :P

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17 minutes ago, Scrags said:

Yeah I've been looking into Marauders for filling out my Nurgle mortals lists. Blightkings are great but there are times you just need a bit more models on the table :P they seem to have really good synergy with Khorne via Bloodsecrators which spikes their potential damage output, also fixes their bravery problems. I'm having a bit of a harder time finding the natural Nurgle synergies, but I'd love to hear suggestions.

I don't know if you'd call it a natural synergy, but they are great cheap filler for padding out a Plaguetouched Warband.  That's how I'd see their main use in Nurgle currently.

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I like Thralls a lot. Part of me says, "Thralls are what Wildwood Rangers and Swordmasters wish they were." In restrospect, that does not hold true for Swordmasters, who are very resilient against shooting (also, house rule is Seawarden on Foot is a Swifthawk Agent, add in Guardians of the Dawnspire). Wildwood Rangers are still pretty jealous, especially considering in GA:O or as allies, the Thralls can tag along with a Soulscryer to get a massive mobility boost.

 

EDIT: I'm of the mind that Thralls are most similar to Saurus Warriors, except they're even squishier, and the point bloat means they don't last as long. But, they have excellent damage output without requiring a specific model count. They just need to survive.

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2 hours ago, GingerGiant said:

I like Thralls a lot. Part of me says, "Thralls are what Wildwood Rangers and Swordmasters wish they were." In restrospect, that does not hold true for Swordmasters, who are very resilient against shooting (also, house rule is Seawarden on Foot is a Swifthawk Agent, add in Guardians of the Dawnspire). Wildwood Rangers are still pretty jealous, especially considering in GA:O or as allies, the Thralls can tag along with a Soulscryer to get a massive mobility boost.

Yeah, the Swordmaster comparison was the first thing that came to mind for me when I saw their attack profile and 'special stances'.

That being said though, Swordmasters at 40 points more do get more bravery, a musician, a better armour save,  ons smaller bases, re-roll 1's to hit (Certainly combined with the smaller bases is probably better than the stances anyway) and re-roll saves in the shooting phase.

So I don't feel too bad about the Swordmasters as their current cost, just a shame they'll probably never see more dynamic models like the Thralls!

 

The Wildwood rangers though definitely feel outclassed on all fronts of elite infantry. The situational D3 damage vs monsters certainly shouldn't make them 20 points more expensive than Black Guard (Who have a better armour save and re-roll 1's to hit). At least they don't cost as much $$ wise!

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Namarti thralls can have all models be icon bearers. Each icon bearer gets an extra attack. Therefore Namarti thralls with a small minor conversion get 3 attacks base on a whole unit and then have their special rule. That's if you don't care about RAW vs RAI

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56 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

That being said though, Swordmasters at 40 points more do get more bravery, a musician, a better armour save,  ons smaller bases, re-roll 1's to hit (Certainly combined with the smaller bases is probably better than the stances anyway) and re-roll saves in the shooting phase.

 

I know it's not just raw stats on the warscroll, but don't discount the rez mechanic through the angler spear men as a part of Thralls "survivability". Someone was also mentioning earlier in the thread the Battalion that makes the rez D3+3 models as well :D

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1 hour ago, PFI said:

Namarti thralls can have all models be icon bearers. Each icon bearer gets an extra attack. Therefore Namarti thralls with a small minor conversion get 3 attacks base on a whole unit and then have their special rule. That's if you don't care about RAW vs RAI

Wouldn't bother with it. Namely because historically such abuse will get FAQ'd such as Night Gobbos netters, Grundstock thunderer cannons to name a few. 

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8 hours ago, PFI said:

Namarti thralls can have all models be icon bearers. Each icon bearer gets an extra attack. Therefore Namarti thralls with a small minor conversion get 3 attacks base on a whole unit and then have their special rule. That's if you don't care about RAW vs RAI

That's madness! Why would they write the rules like that? Actually re-reading the warscrolls this it's the same for all the standard bearers and musicians all contain the "Models in this unit may be". However usually you get a "The leader of this unit" for the additional attacks guy. 

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2 hours ago, Valenae said:

They don't best battline.

But they one of the beast damage dealers in game, especially against 4w creatures.

An also they are have very big cost per wound. They are perfect target for all.

Yeah that was my thought too listening to a podcast about them. I have no issue only being allowed to target these guys with ranged - I want to shoot them anyway. 

Seems loads of silly exploits in this army already... all thralls as musicians / extra attacks, wavechad on bailwind debuffing your whole army, invincible wavechad that you must target for one turn with ranged. 

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2 hours ago, GM_Monkey said:

That's madness! Why would they write the rules like that? Actually re-reading the warscrolls this it's the same for all the standard bearers and musicians all contain the "Models in this unit may be". However usually you get a "The leader of this unit" for the additional attacks guy. 

I always assumed that the reason you can take any number of musicians/banners is because the transition from WHFB to AOS changed the unit sizes for almost every unit in the game. 

Going forward it would be good to see them add a 1 per unit restriction on "command" options, at least for Matched Play. It would make abilities that target models instead of units a lot more interesting.

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