What is the best Battleline in the game, and why is it Namarti Thralls?

[Scrags]

Thoughts?

OK slight troll post but seriously these guys are a little obscene in my books. Can anyone come up with a decent reason to calm the riots forming at my local game store? ;D I feel like these guys are hands down the best battle line in the game. I guess to be fair, Deepkin are shaping up to be a battleline heavy faction, and at the end of the day SOMEONE had to have the title "Best Battleline" but it seems like a much wider margin than I was expecting.

[ianob]

It’s a 14 point model with a 5+ save.

Even contextually within their army abilities, they’re not close to the best battleline in the game.

Skinks

Skeletons

Liberators

Judicators

Plaguebearers

The list of great battlelines and contextually great battlelines goes on. They’re up there for sure, but that’s all.

[sal4m4nd3r]

Vulkite berserkers?

[Scrags]

2 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Vulkite berserkers?

Actually yes, Vulkite berzerkers are pretty amazing  

 

7 hours ago, ianob said:

It’s a 14 point model with a 5+ save.

Even contextually within their army abilities, they’re not close to the best battleline in the game.

Skinks

Skeletons

Liberators

Judicators

Plaguebearers

The list of great battlelines and contextually great battlelines goes on. They’re up there for sure, but that’s all.

Plaguebearers? I believe you but you'll have to explain that one to me. Judicators are nice, Skinks I've heard are good skirmishers but I haven't actually faced them. Libs I'm not sold on but I respect them. Skeles are nice but dont you need a lot of support for them? Yes there are lots of decent battle line out there to be sure

Idk, I still think that the "Swiss Army Knife" attacks (+1 attack per model or 2 damage vs 4+ wound models) all on a 3+/3+/-1 rend profile is pretty awesome. 5+ save sure, but you're talking about the faction that counts as being in cover universally turn 1 and with a Turtle Dark Shroud (for anyone that plays 40k) aren't they actually a 4+ if not 3+ save? (Just not sure if the turtle buff stacks with the "Tides" thing) I'm pretty sure that they can also be brought back D3 or more models at a time by the angler lantern spear wielding guy death style. 

Also the archer variant seems pretty decent to me being somewhat mediocre at max range but SUDDENLY BECOMING BONESPLITTAZ ARROW BOYS at 9" range. 

Like I said with the first post, its a bit of a troll post in general but I still say we're gonna see a lot from these guys. The seem like VERY powerful battleline to me

 

[ianob]

Tides grants cover. Turtle grants cover. They don’t stack and neither works on the charge.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Scrags said:

Idk, I still think that the "Swiss Army Knife" attacks (+1 attack per model or 2 damage vs 4+ wound models) all on a 3+/3+/-1 rend profile is pretty awesome. 5+ save sure, but you're talking about the faction that counts as being in cover universally turn 1 and with a Turtle Dark Shroud (for anyone that plays 40k) aren't they actually a 4+ if not 3+ save? (Just not sure if the turtle buff stacks with the "Tides" thing) I'm pretty sure that they can also be brought back D3 or more models at a time by the angler lantern spear wielding guy death style. 

 

But this is the point... in the context of their tides of Death, yes they are amazing but the army book seems to miss a heavy infantry. So to help settle the debate in your store, make sure people first make that claim either in the context of an ID army or as an Order battleline.

If they say Order, yes they hit heavy but 1 wound with a 5+ save... They need some very careful movement. Liberators on the other hand will fulfil a much better role as a roadblock, skinks are cheaper, etc. Still Thralls are very awesome, and pretty much a elite battleline but it makes for a balanced discussion. What do you need from you battleline, what lists do you regular fight etc. 

If they say in an ID army, then it becomes a very unbalanced discussion. Because the tides and other rules make them really, really awesome from what I can see, but is that more valuable then teleporting liberators? Regrowing Skeletons? Arkanauts on ships? Longbeards allowing a second hero to use his command ability? Plague bearers with all their saves? They all work really well in their armies (as they should) but loose effectiveness outside of it. Making it a maybe fun, but ultimately an endless discussion with to many variables to settle on a Yes they are/No they are not. (personally I would argue witch elves fully buffed, but that's just my recent experiences)

Just my two cents. 

[Knight of Ruin]

I think the thralls can be awesome if you go Mor-phann, Namarti Corpse, and take several Soulrenders and blocks of thralls.  It's a point sink, but that is 6+ thralls per soulrender returned. Add a leviadon for cover, a shipwreck for 6+ save, and abuse the Forgotton Nightmares, and your blocks will live a long time, with a potentially great damage output. 

What i like about Namarti units over Ahkelians is the amount of good support options they can get. Pretty much every single buff in the IDK tome benefits them. Without the buffs though, they are really expensive 1 wound 5+ save infantry.

[PJetski]

1 wound, 5+ save, and 6 bravery

Enough said?

[ledha]

Bloodletters are way better, as well as Vulkite Berserker or Arkanauts company (for the price of 10 judicators, you have 30 wounds save 5+ with 9 shots 4+/3+/2/D3 at long range, and even after 20 death, you still attack at full force ! )

Eternal guard are ridiculously good on defense too, as well as the freeguild guard. 

Skellies and Dire Wolves are better i think

The thrall are good, but far from the best

[DantePQ]

Skinks 

 

[Bozly]

20 hours ago, ianob said:

It’s a 14 point model with a 5+ save.

Even contextually within their army abilities, they’re not close to the best battleline in the game.

Skinks

Skeletons

Liberators

Judicators

Plaguebearers

The list of great battlelines and contextually great battlelines goes on. They’re up there for sure, but that’s all.

Add long beards to that list. If you havent discovered them yet theyre really nasty.

4+ save rerollable if you dont run or charge

you can take the great weapon with shield because the wording isnt specific. Halve battle shock and rerolls 1s to wound. Theyre pretty nasty for a standalone unit. Throw in a cheap runelord all of the sudden you have a battleline unit that Hits on 4 wounds on 3 with reroll of 1s and a -2 rend. And on the strike back they reroll their saves.  Disgusting.

 

forgot to add 10 points per model but you get the point

[Aelfric]

12 hours ago, ianob said:

Tides grants cover. Turtle grants cover. They don’t stack and neither works on the charge.

It also doesn't work on the turtle as it is a monster.

[Son Of Khârn]

I love my Bloodletters. 

[Jamister1]

Witch Aelves

[Deepkin]

4 hours ago, Bozly said:

Add long beards to that list. If you havent discovered them yet theyre really nasty.

4+ save rerollable if you dont run or charge

you can take the great weapon with shield because the wording isnt specific. Halve battle shock and rerolls 1s to wound. Theyre pretty nasty for a standalone unit. Throw in a cheap runelord all of the sudden you have a battleline unit that Hits on 4 wounds on 3 with reroll of 1s and a -2 rend. And on the strike back they reroll their saves.  Disgusting.

 

forgot to add 10 points per model but you get the point

Well yes but Longbeards are battleline for an army that kinda sorta sucks, so it's not a huge issue. And all their synergies are Dispossessed specific IIRC, so its not like you can plop them in another army and have them buff them.

[Bozly]

28 minutes ago, Deepkin said:

Well yes but Longbeards are battleline for an army that kinda sorta sucks, so it's not a huge issue. And all their synergies are Dispossessed specific IIRC, so its not like you can plop them in another army and have them buff them.

no you take them in mixed order because mixed order is super strong. especially mixed duardin. Ko with a stronger front line with fyreslayers all in the same force is great. and some dragon elves armies bring them in

 

[Deepkin]

Hm I forgot about mixed order. Their buffs only affect Dispossessed though if I'm not mistaken.

[Bozly]

2 minutes ago, Deepkin said:

Hm I forgot about mixed order. Their buffs only affect Dispossessed though if I'm not mistaken.

you just put reroll 1s to wound. the other buffs suck for dispossesed anyway. But the ones to wound affect the own unit which makes them really potent standalone.

[Rollcage]

I'd take Blood Sisters any day of the week over Nemarti Thralls. 32mm bases with 1" Range is not a great unit.

Blood sisters being 40mm bases with 2" range, better movement at 8" and mortal wound attacks on top. 

Although I am interested to see how tanky Nemarti Thralls can end up with the flat 6 model res per hero phase and stacking defensive cover and mystic shield. 

[Naflem]

4 minutes ago, Rollcage said:

I'd take Blood Sisters any day of the week over Nemarti Thralls. 32mm bases with 1" Range is not a great unit.

Blood sisters being 40mm bases with 2" range, better movement at 8" and mortal wound attacks on top. 

Although I am interested to see how tanky Nemarti Thralls can end up with the flat 6 model res per hero phase and stacking defensive cover and mystic shield. 

Although those are not battleline if you take a not-universally exciting General..

[Scrags]

Thanks for all the responses everyone! I brought this thread up at my local game store and the debate has continued! We don't really have a resident Fyreslayers player at our store but several people are now interested ;D

3 hours ago, Son Of Khârn said:

I love my Bloodletters. 

Yeah! I know bloodletter balls were super popular for a while with Sayl the Faithless. Are they still going strong? I feel like a big issue was their survivability.

7 minutes ago, Rollcage said:

I'd take Blood Sisters any day of the week over Nemarti Thralls. 32mm bases with 1" Range is not a great unit.

Blood sisters being 40mm bases with 2" range, better movement at 8" and mortal wound attacks on top. 

Although I am interested to see how tanky Nemarti Thralls can end up with the flat 6 model res per hero phase and stacking defensive cover and mystic shield. 

I'm not familiar with Blood Sisters, is that a Daughters of Khaine unit?  Yeah I love how the Nemarti Thrall can do the sort of Death rez thing, Idk even the tides seem like the Wheel of Corruption from Maggotkin of Nurgle. Seems like Deepkin got a highlight reel of other factions mechanics ;D jkjk Should be fun though, I can't wait to see what they end up doing. Oh, and is it true that Thralls are universal Order battleline? You might not want to take them outside Deepkin because of all the synergy loss but I was just wondering

[PlasticCraic]

Their big downfall imo is that they are priced appropriately at 140 points.  So they are getting close to being an elite unit and priced as such.

Given that you will need to make use of multiple chaff screens to benefit from the "Ner Ner Ner You Can't Shoot Me" Battle Trait, that's going to be quite a few points tied up in units whose main pupose is to get shot off while your actual army sweeps up for the Round 3 smackdown.

i.e. the fact that they are good is actually a drawback in its own way, because this is an army that benefits from cheap junk, which these guys ain't.

In effect it might push you towards using your allies pool for trash rather than something sexy, so their pseudo-elite status is actually quite limiting in the context of the army.

[PlasticCraic]

So even though they are Battleline - they really do need to be, because you may well have to ally in another faction's Battleline to give you some actual chaff.

[someone2040]

I think you need to assess things contextually.

Are thralls good cheap battleline? No, they're not cheap. You can get better ones in the form of Skinks, Freeguild Guard, Eternal Guard, etc.

Are thralls good mass battleline? Possibly not, 32mm bases prevents making the most out of large units, and they don't get any benefits for being taken in large units. Skeletons, Bloodletters, etc are likely better.

Are they good elite battleline? This is probably where there niche is. Coming in with an 'elite infantry' weapon profile, along with a special rule that makes them better against certain types of targets. They probably feel best in mimimum sized units so they dont get destroyed by battleshock and can bring their full amount of models to bear.

 

So I think really, in a Deepkin army they're probably good because the Tides of Death will give them a 4+ save (presuming no charge) in the first and last battle round of the game which bumps up their survivability.

In an Order allegiance, if you're interesting in having a battleline unit with a more elite feel, these guys are currently your own real choice having a decent number of high quality attacks for a fair pricing. That being said... I think most people would pass over them when you can get almost twice as many Freeguild Guard or Duardin Warriors which can have almost as good statlines just with twice the bodies.

[rokapoke]

I don't see how the Thralls even blow the Saurus Guard out of the water. And Saurus Guard are overpointed!