Suneater Tribes Battletome WIP: Full rules Pg6

[Melcavuk]

Cheers guys, I still need to add the damage chart to this scroll but here’s my WIP Svangr Warbeast designed as a viable alternative to Stonehorns or Thundertusks. These beasts of birds house the Siege Engines of the Suneater tribes, designed to launch burning balls of scrap and oil over the enemy walls and starts blazes within.

 

im pretty happy with giving the catapult a limitation preventing it firing in close combat but would like feedback!

[Twisted Firaun]

22 hours ago, White Horse Wargaming said:

Just being inspired by stuff like:

 

If you do go the polynesian route, maybe you could have flaming rogue idols that are  tiki-esque!

 

[S133arcanite]

Another great part of the narrative feel is that you could have Suneater Tribes and Beastclaw Raiders working side by side, each element strenghening the other

[Melcavuk]

6 minutes ago, S133arcanite said:

Another great part of the narrative feel is that you could have Suneater Tribes and Beastclaw Raiders working side by side, each element strenghening the other

Yeah the aim is for all the the units to be appealing both as part of their own faction and destruction grand alliance 

[Melcavuk]

Excerpts taken from Markus Ironheart Biologist First of the Azyrheim Explorator Guild

"When one looks upon the Svangr Warbeast it is hard not to be wowed by the majestic nature of this primal creature, it is not by any stretch of the imagination a creature of traditional beauty but one evolved perfectly for longevity and resilience. Indeed it has never been recorded of such a creature perishing due to natural causes lending credance to the theory that such a beast may be immortal lest for death by less natural themes. Its flattened and bullish face is akin to many a nightmare as a child with the full stretch of its maw measured at over a cart in width and atleast the same in  depth to the gullet though I have yet to find an apprentice willing to test that, when looking into its eyes you are struck by the sheer simplicity of the creature not burdened by higher thought or malice. The juviniles of the species are often found in migratory herds travelling alongside the Suneater tribes ofv Aqshy, seemingly drawn mothlike to the pyres to their privitive gods that these tribes are prone to igniting, indeed the subdued state these creatures enter in the prescense of such a blaze has allowed ramshackle howdahs to be assembled across the beasts broad backs. It is then sadly witnessed that when these savage tribes march to war they goad the Svangr alongside them, bombarding their enemies from afar with crude catapults launching burning debris down the battlefield. Such burning projectiles seemingly spur their mounts onwards chasing the bright lights racing across the sky"

Finished scroll available for review, it strikes a mid point between Thundertusk and Stonehorn and by my estimates should sit roughly at 320 points.

[AthlorianStoners]

7 minutes ago, Melcavuk said:

Excerpts taken from Markus Ironheart Biologist First of the Azyrheim Explorator Guild

"When one looks upon the Svangr Warbeast it is hard not to be wowed by the majestic nature of this primal creature, it is not by any stretch of the imagination a creature of traditional beauty but one evolved perfectly for longevity and resilience. Indeed it has never been recorded of such a creature perishing due to natural causes lending credance to the theory that such a beast may be immortal lest for death by less natural themes. Its flattened and bullish face is akin to many a nightmare as a child with the full stretch of its maw measured at over a cart in width and atleast the same in  depth to the gullet though I have yet to find an apprentice willing to test that, when looking into its eyes you are struck by the sheer simplicity of the creature not burdened by higher thought or malice. The juviniles of the species are often found in migratory herds travelling alongside the Suneater tribes ofv Aqshy, seemingly drawn mothlike to the pyres to their privitive gods that these tribes are prone to igniting, indeed the subdued state these creatures enter in the prescense of such a blaze has allowed ramshackle howdahs to be assembled across the beasts broad backs. It is then sadly witnessed that when these savage tribes march to war they goad the Svangr alongside them, bombarding their enemies from afar with crude catapults launching burning debris down the battlefield. Such burning projectiles seemingly spur their mounts onwards chasing the bright lights racing across the sky"

Finished scroll available for review, it strikes a mid point between Thundertusk and Stonehorn and by my estimates should sit roughly at 320 points.

Sounds awesome! How do you plan on representing it?

[Melcavuk]

Squiggoth with a howdah made of the new broken boat idoneth scenery (half boat only to the front) and the gnoblar scrap catapult editted to have a burning pile of scrap in the cup to represent the juvinile beasts, it'll be bigger than a stonehorn by some margin. The adult will be the gargantuan squiggoth model with a broader howdah being directed by an Ogor chieftan and will integrate a canon, Bal Kasta support team and will have a troop carrying capacity (a first for destruction)

[Melcavuk]

First post editted to add in the provisional scroll for Bal Kasta, the rename Slatr (i reused a name, poor choice on my part so he's renamed) aswell as the monolithic Might Slatr based on the chaos Mammoth scroll but twisted to a Suneater theme. The latter will be made using the Gargantuan squiggoth as a base model for a truly intimidating destruction model on the battlefield.

 

 

[Twisted Firaun]

you may have already mentioned this, but what did you do with the fire belly model?

 

[Melcavuk]

2 minutes ago, TheR00zle said:

you may have already mentioned this, but what did you do with the fire belly model?

 

In terms of conversion? The one I've mounted on the Magma Dragon was cut at the waist and given the lower half of the Stonehorn rider (plus saddle).
 

[Twisted Firaun]

no as a troop/hero

 

[Twisted Firaun]

will it still be apart of the sun eater tribes, but under a different name?

[Melcavuk]

Ah my bad sorry yeah, he got enhanced slightly and became the Beserkr hero for the tribes, gained a corresponding command abilities and a buff aura

 

[Twisted Firaun]

8 minutes ago, Melcavuk said:

Ah my bad sorry yeah, he got enhanced slightly and became the Beserkr hero for the tribes, gained a corresponding command abilities and a buff aura

 

thanks! I really like the model and was a bit worried. plus he's the whole reason for the sun eater aspect of GorkaMorka.

[Melcavuk]

Yup his backstory was my inspiration for the faction, his only changes were designed to make him play well with others as a focal point for armies, similarly he'll gain access to the Lore of Fire aswell as factional artifacts.

 

Stone effigy added to first post, looking as a somewhat complete unit roster but now come the balance and tweaks, if anyone has input on these scrolls so far, if the army seems to be lackin something or if there are multiple scrolls that serve the same function and are therefore unneccesary let me know..

 

 

NEW SCROLLS UPDATED WITH BATTLEFIELD ROLE TAGS

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Antonio Rodrigues]

5 hours ago, Melcavuk said:

Squiggoth with a howdah made of the new broken boat idoneth scenery (half boat only to the front) and the gnoblar scrap catapult editted to have a burning pile of scrap in the cup to represent the juvinile beasts, it'll be bigger than a stonehorn by some margin. The adult will be the gargantuan squiggoth model with a broader howdah being directed by an Ogor chieftan and will integrate a canon, Bal Kasta support team and will have a troop carrying capacity (a first for destruction)

Hi Melcavuk!

First of all confratulations for the wonderful idea and initiative, and fantastic execution on both the conversions and the battletome! I tip my hat to you, sir!!!!

I have seen your other works on the forum and you are a truly gifted painter and converter! Im a big fan of themed armies and have done a few for 40k, but just starting AoS...

Since Im working on an ogor/BCR army with a twist too (based in Shyish and with an ancestor worshipping theme), this is great inspiration to do something too! Count on me if you need any help, I can try to write some small parts of the fluff if you want.

on a more practical aspect, regarding the convertions above, if I may(I have seen how well you can convert  ) will try to give some humble suggestions: 

- for the howdah you may try the chassis of the skaven screaming bell too, can be found cheap on ebay

- you can use the warplightning cannon support beans to support the cannon, which I think you will use the one from the scrapalauncher/ironblaster kit... the skaven symbology is minimal and easily scrapped/hidden

- have you looked into the skaven plague censer that comes with the screaming bell? Painted in a suitable fiery tone it will look like a giant brazen ball for the catapult...

- this is pretty obvious but have you checked the magmadroths of Fyreslayers? They may be much easier to convert than the resin Squiggoths, but with the downside of not coming in “two sizes”

- empire flagellants are a great source of bits for your ashen grots, with braziers and hands holding torches, unless you want to sculpt them with GS (this is what I would do)

If I remember something will share! And really thanks for sharing such a wide scope project with us!

cheers

AJ

[Melcavuk]

Cheers @Antonio Rodrigues they are some fantastic suggestions, any help with fluff and narrative aspects would be greatly appreciated as backfilling the lore is better from multiple storytellers for such a nomadic tribe relying on word of mouth (technical details will be filled out from a freguild biologist notebook perspective). To the modelling points:

The screaming bell chassis is great for a number of reasons but I'd likely use it alongside the new broken boat just because i love that kit, it will allow me to extend/alter it well.

You're correct I'd be using the ironblaster cannon as the scrap launcher would be on the smaller behemoth, with crews combined between forgeworld grots and the scrap launcher gnoblars.

The plague Censur is a fantastic suggestion, I may integrate it into making inferno markers as its size and flame are cool..

The magmadroth I have an unreasonable dislike for, I cant put my finger on it but I just hate the model with a passion  Also I love the forgeworld squiggoths, they are models I've wanted to do something with for a long time.

Great call on the flagellants, I'd already picked out the empire wizard kit to use to convert up my grot shaman but the flagellants combined with the moonclan grot kit will make great ashen grots.

 

[Antonio Rodrigues]

Glad to help!

Hehehe, and I understand this type of personal dislike for some minis... I have a long list too... 

will try to write down some small snippets of lore, like the ones that appear on the circles in every battletome, will send you through PM not to clutter here, then you decide if you want to use... by the way, Im not a native english speaker, so feel free to correct any mistakes or change whatever you want!

cheers

AJ

P.S.: kkkkk, now I want to convert some ashen grots! Damn! I havent finished my eskimo ones yet! 

[Melcavuk]

Progress with the Lore of the Flame!

 

 

LORE OF THE FLAME

1. Fireball – Casting Value 5 – Pick an enemy unit visible to the caster and within 18 inches and roll a D6, on a roll of a 1 that unit suffers a mortal wound, on 2-4 that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds, on a 5-6 that unit suffers D6 mortal wounds.

2. Molten Shield – Casting Value – 6 - Pick a visible friendly unit within 12 inches of this wizard, until your next hero phase you may reroll failed saves for that unit, additionally and save roll of a 6 or more inflicts a mortal wound on an enemy unit within 3 inches.

3. Jaws of the Suneater – Casting Value 6 – The ground itself seems to warp and shift into a molten burning maw that threatens to swallow a man whole. Pick a visible enemy MODEL within 18 inches with a wound characteristic of 3 or less, that model suffers D3 mortal wounds.

4. Aftershock – Casting value – 6. The wizard slams his foot against the dirt with a thud that resonates as though a clap of thunder, as they ground shakes and distorts enemies find it hard to find their footing. Until your next hero phase enemy units that initiative a charge move within 9 inches of this wizard must subtract 3 from the result.

5. Choking Ash – Casting Value – 6 – Pick a visible unit within 18 inches of the caster, until your next hero phase that unit must subtract 1 from all hit rolls as they as surrounding by a thick blanket of ash.

6. Suneaters Spit – Casting Value – 8. Pick a visible enemy unit 12 inches of this wizard, great burning globules of Spit said to come from the Suneater himself land with a sizzling sickening splat, coating those caught up in it with boiling burning oily saliva. Roll a D6 for every model in the unit. On a roll of a 6 they suffer a mortal wound as they boil alive.

 

 

Feedback is as always welcome!

[Malakree]

@Melcavuk So a few comments, please take them as the constructive criticism they are meant. I can come over a bit abrasive but it's not meant to be negative of what you're doing.

I feel like some of these could really do with being prayers not spells and I would say you are being to conservative with the spells both in effect and spell naming. 

11 hours ago, Melcavuk said:

LORE OF THE FLAME

1. Fireball – Casting Value 5 – Pick an enemy unit visible to the caster and within 18 inches and roll a D6, on a roll of a 1 that unit suffers a mortal wound, on 2-4 that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds, on a 5-6 that unit suffers D6 mortal wounds.

2. Molten Shield – Casting Value – 6 - Pick a visible friendly unit within 12 inches of this wizard, until your next hero phase you may reroll failed saves for that unit, additionally and save roll of a 6 or more inflicts a mortal wound on an enemy unit within 3 inches.

3. Jaws of the Suneater – Casting Value 6 – The ground itself seems to warp and shift into a molten burning maw that threatens to swallow a man whole. Pick a visible enemy MODEL within 18 inches with a wound characteristic of 3 or less, that model suffers D3 mortal wounds.

4. Aftershock – Casting value – 6. The wizard slams his foot against the dirt with a thud that resonates as though a clap of thunder, as they ground shakes and distorts enemies find it hard to find their footing. Until your next hero phase enemy units that initiative a charge move within 9 inches of this wizard must subtract 3 from the result.

5. Choking Ash – Casting Value – 6 – Pick a visible unit within 18 inches of the caster, until your next hero phase that unit must subtract 1 from all hit rolls as they as surrounding by a thick blanket of ash.

6. Suneaters Spit – Casting Value – 8. Pick a visible enemy unit 12 inches of this wizard, great burning globules of Spit said to come from the Suneater himself land with a sizzling sickening splat, coating those caught up in it with boiling burning oily saliva. Roll a D6 for every model in the unit. On a roll of a 6 they suffer a mortal wound as they boil alive.

1. I know this is the collegiate arcane spell and it's good, it's just ripping off other wizards is frustrating.
2. This here is why I suggested you do a prayer list as well as a spell list, this should be a prayer not a spell. 
3. I'll be honest, feels a bit weak and the imagery of how the spell resolves feels like it misses the mark. For supposedly being linked to the sun then having it manifest out of the ground is bleh
4. Again, the ground based imagery and spell manifestation feels off given the solar nature of the faction. I feel like this would be great as a gutbuster type spell.
5. Cool spell, I'd potentially go slightly further in it but yeah this is the kind of imagery I expect.
6. This feels like a Warscroll spell not a Faction spell. Also it's casting value is way to high for it's effect.

So with this in mind I'll offer my thoughts in how I would change them but it's your show, take them as a feedback not "this is how it should be"

Quote

Flame Waves - Waves of Flame crash away from the caster incinerating those they touch.

Casting Value 5 - Roll 3 dice, for each roll of a 4 or more inflict a mortal wound to an enemy unit within 18" of the caster. Roll 6 dice instead if the spell was cast on an 8+ or 12 dice if the spell was cast on an 11+

This functions in much the same way as fireball, but it has the random and scaling elements which makes it more thematic and powerful. Distinguishes it from other magic missile type spells and makes a good basic spell imo.

Quote

Choking Ash - A thick cloud of burning ash descends on the unit burning skin wherever it touches and suffocating any who breath it in.

Casting Value 6 - Pick a unit within 18" of the caster, until your next hero phase that unit must reroll any hit rolls of a 6+, if the hit roll is still a 6+ after the reroll that unit takes a mortal wound after it finishes it's attacks.

Slightly less generic, still has a similar effect (countering on 6+) while also including some of the fire burn aspect. Really dumps on things like bloodletters who want to stack up +hit in order to get mortal wounds. What it really does is hose down units with lots of +hit in a way the original didn't. It felt like the spell should do damage in someway because of the flame/sun connection.

Quote

Jaws of the Suneater - A Giant Maw of Flames appears attempting to devour the enemy and any others it can reach.

Casting Value 7 - Pick a visible model within 18" it takes d3 mortal wounds. If the model is slain roll a d6 for every other model in the unit, the unit takes a mortal wound for each roll of a 5+.

Similar idea just more expansive than you went with. It's arcane bolt but casts on a 7+ instead of a 5+. I also added in Sun Eaters Spit, which mechanically is very similar to a bunch of other spells and thematically/visually I really didn't like (personal opinion). This rolls them both together to make a more broadly useful spell that fits well with the Ogor and Suneater themes I feel.

There are a couple of very interesting choices going on with this spell, it can be used to snipe heroes (unlike the original) but it still retains the ability to snipe banners/champions/special weapons etc. however there's also the unit wide burn if the model is slain. Do you use it on something with more wounds that you really need dead or try to burn away a large unit of 1 wound models. Simplistic but a ton of tactical options.

Each of these is drawing from the spells you've come up with and altering them so they are hopefully more thematic while still retaining the original intent of the spell they are associated with. The ones below are more as suggestions which aren't as closely tied.  

Quote

Gaze of the Suneater - The air around the wizard becomes oppressively hot as they channel the gaze of the suneater upon their foes.

Casting Value 7 - Until your next hero phase whenever an enemy unit within 18" of the caster declares a charge choose one of the following. A unit can only be affected by this spell once per charge phase.

• Searing Heat - The unit takes d3 mortal wounds. If there are 20 or more models in the unit it takes d6 mortal wounds instead.
• Sweltering Heat - Roll an extra dice and discard the highest when deciding how far the unit charges.
• Draining Heat - When the opponent selects this unit to activate in the following combat phase roll a d6, on a 4+ they must choose a different unit instead and this unit cannot activate until the end of the combat phase. If the unit has an ability which would cause it to attack first instead treat it as if it has neither of these effects. 

An area denial spell which provides interesting decisions for you and a variety of threats for your opponent. If they're going for a long range charge you might try to deny it or if it's a fight you want you could instead risk trying to force it to attack last. The most stable option is just to throw out mortal wounds onto the unit which against low hp heroes provides a threat all of its own. Also provides an interesting counter to things like quicksilver potion.

Quote

Blazing Gift - The suneater bestows the target with a gift of his power causing them to erupt in glorious flames incinerating everything around them before quickly burning out.

Casting Value 4 - Select a friendly model within 18" of the caster, the model is slain and causes mortal wounds to all units, other than it's own, within 3" equal to the wounds the model had remaining. If the friendly model had 7 or more wounds remaining roll a d6 for every wound over 6, it only inflicts the mortal wound on a roll of a 6.

Probably the most crazy spell here, turns one of your own models into a pyrotastic suicide bomb. As the cost of your models goes up so does the potential of this spell with ogors being way more damage than a grot would be. The wounds limit is to stop the Aleguzzlar from being a 170 point 12 wound bomb. The low casting value is there because of how specific the scenarios surrounding the spell are.

Quote

Solar Flare - Channelling the overwhelming power of the sun the wizard calls down a pillar of burning light which incinerates those around it.

Casting Value 10 - Select a point on the battlefield all units within 3" of it take 6 mortal wounds, units within 6" instead take 3+d3 mortal wounds, units within 12" take d6 mortal wounds and units within 24" take d3 mortal wounds.

A unit can only take damage from this spell once per cast.

A huge casting value which unleashes a massive indiscriminate nuke anywhere on the battlefield. Since all units are affected you need to balance getting maximum damage out on the enemy and how much you take yourself. If anyone played with the old comet of casandora!

 

I was originally going to go for minor feedback but ended up going full crazy on it. I suspect that we both love the creative aspect of this sort of thing, take it or leave it I just couldn't stop once I had started  

[Melcavuk]

Hi, thanks for the feedback.

 

You're right in that alot of the spells are quite conservative as I lean on the side of caution in terms of mortal wound output so as it be underpowered rather than over powered in most circumstances. I do have a prayer list in the first post which focus more on utility abilities than direct interference, but to the spells!

 

Fireball - This is actually taken from the Aqshy Time of War page for Brimstone peninsula, it made the most sense to have the key spell of the realm in the realm of fire and whilst underwhelming is the spell assosciate with the realm so I'd likely leave it in just for continuity.

The changes to Choking Ash and Jaws of the Suneater both look good

Blazing gift I'm not sure on for some reason, it seems alot of dice rolling which could bog things down

Solar flare seems savage, I'd probably limit it by line of sight or distance or something as currently it'll instanuke alot of characters off the field or potentially ruin someones game turn one. I know its hard to pull off but anything that can be cast without line of sight or range unsettles me.

 

Cheers

Ricki

[Malakree]

21 minutes ago, Melcavuk said:

Blazing gift I'm not sure on for some reason, it seems alot of dice rolling which could bog things down

Aye, the idea is mainly to discourage poping it on that 12 wound giant to instigib other monsters. I suspect the general target would be an ogor with around 4/5 wounds which wouldn't have any dice rolling, that's also the intended target  

21 minutes ago, Melcavuk said:

Solar flare seems savage, I'd probably limit it by line of sight or distance or something as currently it'll instanuke alot of characters off the field or potentially ruin someones game turn one. I know its hard to pull off but anything that can be cast without line of sight or range unsettles me.

Yeah, I knew it was stupid strong when I was writing it, hence the CV of 10. That said I left it in it's "pure" form since it allowed you to see where I would want it to be in an ideal world then make the changes you wanted in order to bring it into line, there's a bunch of ways you could do it but I wanted to provide inspiration not take over.

21 minutes ago, Melcavuk said:

Fireball - This is actually taken from the Aqshy Time of War page for Brimstone peninsula, it made the most sense to have the key spell of the realm in the realm of fire and whilst underwhelming is the spell assosciate with the realm so I'd likely leave it in just for continuity.

It's fair enough, just be aware that it's on the battlemage warscroll though admittedly that's for wizards who take the lore of fire so actually you probably hit the nail on the head 

21 minutes ago, Melcavuk said:

You're right in that alot of the spells are quite conservative as I lean on the side of caution in terms of mortal wound output so as it be underpowered rather than over powered in most circumstances.

I always use the idea of start to strong, get feedback of "holy ****** this is so OP" (see solar flare!) then tone down. I find that it's harder to tone up than down and people are way more likely to suggest how stuff should be nerfed than buffed, it also lets you explore the "purest" form of an ability which sometimes informs which parts you want to keep. For the lore/thematic side, I don't care if it's doing 1 mw I want the spell to feel super badass in it's imagery, like say the idea of a fire eater on a magma dragon (!!!!!)

Again though that's my approach/thought pattern, go with your gut you know what you do best!

21 minutes ago, Melcavuk said:

I do have a prayer list in the first post which focus more on utility abilities than direct interference, but to the spells!

Aye I had exactly the same thought as you with the spells being the offensive aspect and the prayers the defensive/utility. It's why I said the molten shield should really be a prayer, it's a blessing rather than a manifestation of magical might.

Keep doing what you're doing, it's great to see the disciples of Gorkamorka in all his forms hard at work!

[Melcavuk]

I’ll hsve a revised list of spells sorted tonight, my primary reason for caution is the fact both spell casting units in the army can also produce mortal wounds in the shooting phase so didn’t want one model inflicting excessive levels in a turn. I might make solar flare a battalion specific spell to represent a combined number of wizards casting as it fits with my Wizard battalion 

[Melcavuk]

 SUNEATERS BATALLIONS

 

Fire and Ruin

- Volsungr on Magmadrake

- 3-5 DESTRUCTION WIZARDS

Forbidden Knowledge- The Volsungr from this Batallion knows the SOLAR FLARE spell in addition to any other spells known. Other Wizards in this batallions know one additional  LORE OF FIRE spell in addition to other spells they know.

Trials by Fire- WIZARDS from this Batallion may reroll one failed casting attempt once per turn. To do so inflict D3 mortal wounds on one model from this batallion before attempting the reroll.

In the Presence of Greatness - WIZARDS from this batallion may add 1 to casting and unbinding rolls if they are within 3 inches of any other models from this battalion.

 

Deluge of Phlegm and Fire

1-3 Gothi Fyri

2 x Ashen Grot Units

3 Pyre Belcher

Tsunami of Spit - In your hero phase roll a D6 for every pure belcher from this batallion within 6 inches of a Gothi Fyri. On a 4+ that unit may shoot as if it were the hero phase.

Survival of the Cunning - Ashen Grots from this batallion gain the “Cunning not Brave” rule from the Gothi Fyri Warscroll.

[svnvaldez]

I think It would be great if GW fully supported something like a Suneater Tribe army. Repackage Gutbusters and Maneaters into it and create more emphasis on the Firebellies. Would give a clear reason for the separation of BCR and other ogres. Other ogres pray to fire where BCR is frost focused.

As others mentioned, they could live in the realm of fire, enemy of fyreslayers and you can bring back the WFB 8th ed lore of fire.

NOW I'LL BE UPSET IF THIS DOESN'T BECOME AN OFFICIAL FACTION

Here's a fan made lore video for more inspiration: