justjon1007 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Hey guys, so I'm brand new to the hobby, my core rule book and supplements come in Tuesday(Core Rule Book, Everchosen, Grand Alliance Chaos, and Generals Handbook)! I've been doing as much research as I can find online but what really drew me to the game was Archaon. So what I've been trying to do is build an army with my very limited knowledge based around Archaon. I've been using the Warscroll Builder online using the base 2000 points which I assume is standard? From what I've found the best way to go about using and protecting Archaon is to actually do a Disciples of Tzeentch army with the fate dice, Karios for a guaranteed kill on a Named Hero, Shield of Fate to be able to reroll up to 3's, Infusion Arcanum to give +1 to Hit and +1 to Wound which also puts him at 5-6's to kill with Slayer of Kings. and of course Mystic Shield to give him 2 up Saves. To get all that off I need to have three casters total, Archaon himself, Karios will be another usually for Mystic Shield and then I was thinking of using the Curseling since he can unbind a spell and instantly cast it. One of my questions since I don't have my books yet save Disciples of Tzeentch is, can anyone use Command abilities or just the general? The reason I ask this is because I was thinking of taking two Fatemasters in conjunction with Archaon to give two other re-rolls albeit random (or 1's/2's from fate dice) and I wasn't sure if I would need to make Archaon the general or if I could use the Curseling and still use Archaon's command ability to be able to use the Fatemasters. To shore up the army and for an exact 2k points I was going to use 3 units of Tzangors as the battlelines as they seem really nice at the 180 point price tag. Any insight until I can get my hands on the books would be appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 4 hours ago, justjon1007 said: Hey guys, so I'm brand new to the hobby, my core rule book and supplements come in Tuesday(Core Rule Book, Everchosen, Grand Alliance Chaos, and Generals Handbook)! I've been doing as much research as I can find online but what really drew me to the game was Archaon. So what I've been trying to do is build an army with my very limited knowledge based around Archaon. I've been using the Warscroll Builder online using the base 2000 points which I assume is standard? From what I've found the best way to go about using and protecting Archaon is to actually do a Disciples of Tzeentch army with the fate dice, Karios for a guaranteed kill on a Named Hero, Shield of Fate to be able to reroll up to 3's, Infusion Arcanum to give +1 to Hit and +1 to Wound which also puts him at 5-6's to kill with Slayer of Kings. and of course Mystic Shield to give him 2 up Saves. To get all that off I need to have three casters total, Archaon himself, Karios will be another usually for Mystic Shield and then I was thinking of using the Curseling since he can unbind a spell and instantly cast it. One of my questions since I don't have my books yet save Disciples of Tzeentch is, can anyone use Command abilities or just the general? The reason I ask this is because I was thinking of taking two Fatemasters in conjunction with Archaon to give two other re-rolls albeit random (or 1's/2's from fate dice) and I wasn't sure if I would need to make Archaon the general or if I could use the Curseling and still use Archaon's command ability to be able to use the Fatemasters. To shore up the army and for an exact 2k points I was going to use 3 units of Tzangors as the battlelines as they seem really nice at the 180 point price tag. Any insight until I can get my hands on the books would be appreciated! Normally only the general is able to use his/her command ability. Archaon is the exception because his command ability is that every hero in your force can use their own command ability. Probably best to take multiple hero’s that have their own command abilities to take advantage of that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justjon1007 Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 Thanks, I look forward to getting my books in tomorrow! In the mean time I just keep speculating about the rest of the force I want to build. I know it will be Tzeentch just for all the aforementioned boons I can apply to Archaon himself. I'm torn on trying to get a battalion or not, or if I should really leave myself with nothing to do in the shooting phase which in that case I would need to go for some Pink Horror's, not to mention they can cast spells, speaking of which the Warscroll Builder gives them getting two extra spells from Change is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal4m4nd3r Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 All the warscrolls are free online. I usually quickly google the units name and warscroll. Or look it up on the FREE Age of Sigmar app! For example I googled "Archaon warscroll" and it was the first result! https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-archaon-everchosen-en.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justjon1007 Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 3 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said: All the warscrolls are free online. I usually quickly google the units name and warscroll. Or look it up on the FREE Age of Sigmar app! For example I googled "Archaon warscroll" and it was the first result! https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-archaon-everchosen-en.pdf Thank you, I had figured out about the Warscrolls through the main site. My question though was when selecting Pink Horrors on the Warscroll Builder, under it's options, there is a place for two Spells of Change as opposed to one like Karios gets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 6 hours ago, justjon1007 said: Thank you, I had figured out about the Warscrolls through the main site. My question though was when selecting Pink Horrors on the Warscroll Builder, under it's options, there is a place for two Spells of Change as opposed to one like Karios gets? I don’t think you’d be able choose from the tzeentch lore with Archaon as general cause technically it’d be a mixed chaos army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbox Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 45 minutes ago, NurglesFirstChosen said: I don’t think you’d be able choose from the tzeentch lore with Archaon as general cause technically it’d be a mixed chaos army. Not if all units have the tzeentch keyword (which I believe archaon does) as that's the requirement for a tzeentch allegiance. As discussed here: you can still take allies from the DoT list as it's used for an army with tzeentch alliegance (not just DoT book) so you'll be able to rock varanguard if you want. Anyway I'd probably recommend making archaon your leader, he won't get a trait from the book but he will as you say allow others to use command abilities and you can get your two fatemasters having fun and any other command abilities you wish (some of the slaves to darkness ones aren't bad) and you can stick chuck your relic on your non named heroes. DoT have a lot of fun units too so you should have fun putting lists together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justjon1007 Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 Thanks guys for the replies, I've been really trying to refine what I was going to buy and build first. After looking at it I don't think I want to leave my self open to the shooting phase so I'm thinking of only 1 Unit of Tzangors and going with 3 unites of Pink Horrors to try and take advantage of Archaon's battle shock roll modifier, give me three more casts, and give me some ranged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbox Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 19 hours ago, justjon1007 said: Thanks guys for the replies, I've been really trying to refine what I was going to buy and build first. After looking at it I don't think I want to leave my self open to the shooting phase so I'm thinking of only 1 Unit of Tzangors and going with 3 unites of Pink Horrors to try and take advantage of Archaon's battle shock roll modifier, give me three more casts, and give me some ranged. One big unit of tzaangors will serve you well with all the attacks they get. If you're going the horror route you should also look into blue & brimstone for when your pinks split as they're super cheap both points wise and model wise and still pack a good amount of shots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justjon1007 Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 So after even more research this is what I've come up with ultimately and will run me about another 350 bucks to put together, really trying to hammer out what it is I want to use before making further investments. Archaon (700) - General - Lore of Fate : Treacherous Bond - Lore of Change : Fold Reality Lord Of Change (300) - Artefact : Wellspring of Arcane Might - Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm Gaunt Summoner (120) - Artefact : Aspect of Tzeentch - Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate - Lore of Change : Unchecked Mutation Lord Of Chaos (100) - Artefact : Helm of the Oppressor - Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160) - Runestaff - Artefact : Souldraught - Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch - Lore of Fate : Glimpse the Future Units 30 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (300) - Lore of Change : Bolt of Tzeentch 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120) - Lore of Change : Arcane Transformation 40 x Chaos Marauders (200) -Axes & Shields - Damned Icon - Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch Total: 2000 / 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 Leaders: 5/6 Battlelines: 3 (3+) Behemoths: 2/4 Artillery: 0/4 Wounds: 130 My question becomes how some spells will interact with Slayer of Kings, as it is unlikely to get two sixes with fate dice so, Infusion Arcanum states that it will raise to hit and wound rolls by +1, the way I understand that since on 6's Slayer of Kings goes off that with that spell cast all 5's are now 6's for the purpose of the Slayer of Kings ability. Arcane Transformation will give Archaon 5 attacks with Slayer of Kings if I read the +1 Attack characteristic correctly from the spell. In any case, this gives me plenty of meat shields and shooting going on along with some pretty nice offensive spell casting ability. With the Chaos Sorcerer I figured I could always get the rerolls of one that way at least instead of getting random numbers from Fatemasters, even though its now only for Archaon, but with a Chaos Lord the Marauders will get their rerolls on 1 anyway. That just leaves the horrors as a weak point but with Archaons ability to affect the battleshock rolls and taking Fold Reality I'm hoping to be able to off set that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambot1231 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Might look into tzeentch marked chaos warriors as there is a spell where you can push wounds from archaon onto them instead. Any mortal wounds that come at archy can be deflected by his shield but if they get through they pass onto the chaos warriors which have another mortal wounds shield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justjon1007 Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 Yeah that is Treacherous Bond which I gave him as a spell, the way the spell reads it just says the chosen unit takes the wound instead? So when the wound gets passed on even if its a mortal wound if you have a way to save against it the second unit gets to make another save? If so that would be really nice but those Chaos Warriors are 480 for a full unit of 30 vs 200 for 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justjon1007 Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 @Cambot1231 Taking your advice, something like this, a bit different but pretty much should never fail on spell casting. Also gives Archaon the guaranteed kill. Archaon (700) - General - Lore of Fate : Treacherous Bond - Lore of Change : Fold Reality Kairos Fateweaver (340) - Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm The Blue Scribes (120) - Lore of Change : Treason of Tzeentch Gaunt Summoner (120) - Artefact : Wellspring of Arcane Might - Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate - Lore of Change : Unchecked Mutation Units 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120) - Lore of Change : Bolt of Tzeentch 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120) - Lore of Change : Arcane Transformation 30 x Chaos Warriors (480) -Hand Weapon & Shield - Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch Total: 2000 / 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 Leaders: 4/6 Battlelines: 3 (3+) Behemoths: 2/4 Artillery: 0/4 Wounds: 124 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 just saw the second list. Much better. I'd still want the GS w/ familiars and a vortex to perch him on, but that's just me. Also, Archie only gets one extra spell. Make it treacherous bond and put fold reality on one of the horror units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justjon1007 Posted April 19, 2018 Author Share Posted April 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tasman said: Where to begin? Firstly, you can only take one artifact. It would have to be one from the Disiples of Tzeentch as well. Second, you only get ONE extra spell per magic user. Otherwise, it resembles a list that I ran a while back with the exception that I used a GS w/ familiars and put him on a vortex. [Just drop the Lord of Chaos] The marauders get re-rolls on 1s to hit anyway as per the banner, and if you are fortunate enough to roll a 6 when you pile in with them you will get +1 to hit AND wound. A nice bonus, for sure. Remember that Archie can adjust the battle shock roll up or down by 2 so the rolls for your pinks will only work on a 3 or a natural 1. This actually works better against enemy units, imo. Awesome thanks so much for the insight there on the rules as I'm still reading just got my books in Tuesday! How did your list fair? I'm actually thinking about dropping the Chaos Sorcerer and putting in a Blue Scribe because re-rolling failed casts just seems to good to pass up especially with the GS even though he would be at +1 to cast. Spell wise I know what I would drop as that is an easy decision and for the artifact I still think Well Spring of Arcane Might is probably my best bet to keep from failing casts. I actually subscribed to Ayzr just last night and noticed I couldn't take more than one artifact although it doesn't let you pick spells on it. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Just now, justjon1007 said: Awesome thanks so much for the insight there on the rules as I'm still reading just got my books in Tuesday! How did your list fair? I'm actually thinking about dropping the Chaos Sorcerer and putting in a Blue Scribe because re-rolling failed casts just seems to good to pass up especially with the GS even though he would be at +1 to cast. Spell wise I know what I would drop as that is an easy decision and for the artifact I still think Well Spring of Arcane Might is probably my best bet to keep from failing casts. I actually subscribed to Ayzr just last night and noticed I couldn't take more than one artifact although it doesn't let you pick spells on it. Thanks again! I actually just revised my answer to you after I saw your second list. The list plays well, and if you have any luck at all rolling a few 6's on destiny dice will turn Archie into something to be feared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justjon1007 Posted April 19, 2018 Author Share Posted April 19, 2018 @Tasman After taking your comments into consideration, what do you think of something like this. Archaon (700) - Lore of Fate : Treacherous Bond Kairos Fateweaver (340) - Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm The Blue Scribes (120) - Lore of Change : Unchecked Mutation Gaunt Summoner with Familiars (120) - General - Command Trait : Nexus of Fate - Artefact : Wellspring of Arcane Might - Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate Units 30 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (300) - Lore of Change : Bolt of Tzeentch 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120) - Lore of Change : Arcane Transformation 40 x Chaos Marauders (200) -Axes & Shields - Damned Icon - Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch Scenery Balewind Vortex (100) My question becomes with the familiars can they also sit on top of the Balewind or no? If not your not getting that +1 to Cast. Changed the general out too as Archaon doesn't really need to be one when I have no command abilities which also gives me the Nexus of Fate for a chance at more 1's/6's. I would like to take Chaos Warriors but there is just no way to make them fit at 30 and still take Balewind, at 20 you still get to re-roll saves but I'm assuming as soon as I lose one that ability is gone? Also it doesn't look like I can purchase the Gaunt Summoner with Familiars, though its a part of Silver Tower? Can I use the Chaos Familiars as proxies or do I have to buy the Silver Tower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 3 hours ago, justjon1007 said: @Tasman After taking your comments into consideration, what do you think of something like this. Archaon (700) - Lore of Fate : Treacherous Bond Kairos Fateweaver (340) - Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm The Blue Scribes (120) - Lore of Change : Unchecked Mutation Gaunt Summoner with Familiars (120) - General - Command Trait : Nexus of Fate - Artefact : Wellspring of Arcane Might - Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate Units 30 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (300) - Lore of Change : Bolt of Tzeentch 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120) - Lore of Change : Arcane Transformation 40 x Chaos Marauders (200) -Axes & Shields - Damned Icon - Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch Scenery Balewind Vortex (100) My question becomes with the familiars can they also sit on top of the Balewind or no? If not your not getting that +1 to Cast. Changed the general out too as Archaon doesn't really need to be one when I have no command abilities which also gives me the Nexus of Fate for a chance at more 1's/6's. I would like to take Chaos Warriors but there is just no way to make them fit at 30 and still take Balewind, at 20 you still get to re-roll saves but I'm assuming as soon as I lose one that ability is gone? Also it doesn't look like I can purchase the Gaunt Summoner with Familiars, though its a part of Silver Tower? Can I use the Chaos Familiars as proxies or do I have to buy the Silver Tower? First question: yes. originally , the familiars were on the GS base. Just use some brimstone horrors as proxys. I'm pretty sure that Archie MUST be your general. And 20 warriors is fine. You'll be ok without the re-rolls. You can get those points by making that big unit of horrors a unit of 10 instead.. Also, if you take a regular LOC instead of Kairos, you get his awesome command ability to use. Just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justjon1007 Posted April 19, 2018 Author Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Tasman said: First question: yes. originally , the familiars were on the GS base. Just use some brimstone horrors as proxys. I'm pretty sure that Archie MUST be your general. And 20 warriors is fine. You'll be ok without the re-rolls. You can get those points by making that big unit of horrors a unit of 10 instead.. Also, if you take a regular LOC instead of Kairos, you get his awesome command ability to use. Just sayin' If Warriors are so much better than taking a host of Marauders wouldn't Tzaangors then be even better than the Warriors for me since I have so much shooting/spell casting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 On 4/19/2018 at 6:47 PM, justjon1007 said: If Warriors are so much better than taking a host of Marauders wouldn't Tzaangors then be even better than the Warriors for me since I have so much shooting/spell casting? Bring what you like..... I personally find that the warriors are tankier and tzaangors can bring a $h!t-ton of attacks in large units. They are also speedier. It depends on your build, and the points available, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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