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Chris Tomlin

The Black Sunz - Ironjawz - Update 17/11 - Game 115 vs Stormcast Eternals

775 posts in this topic

Sangfroid    550

Love these conversions Orruks make excellent Pirates, as has been said before the mention of Grot and orruk pirates in the kharadron overlords book (along with shaven pirates I think) can keep the dream alive that one day this could be real. 

I would gladly go get a credit card and smash it to pieces over a AoS version of Booty Bay and the Bloodsail bucaneers! My cat Ole’ cap’n Smokey-Joe would be gluggin a tankard of rum with me to that! Aaaaargh! 

C0AF4EA4-A6E9-4C0C-A0EB-C74E84C3D8B1.jpeg

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Chris Tomlin    2,980

Thanks boyz,

Yeah @Sangfroid that'd be super sweet (and thanks to Hearthstone I get the reference!). I can defo see us getting Grot sky pirates at some point.

In a shocking turn of events, I am actually going to play a game of AoS tonight...crazy eh? :S 
The Black Sunz will be taking on @Paul Buckler's latest project; Slaves to Darkness. It's a Knight heavy build so should be an interesting game. Hoping this will be the start of me getting in regular games again, especially as I'm not playing any more events in 2017.

Also gonna be having a Shadespire match, using Ironskull's Boyz for the first time, which is also pretty exciting.

Anyway, my list for tonight is;

  • Megaboss on Maw-krusha - Ironcland, Dabbing
  • Weirdnob
  • Warchanter
  • Warchanter
  • 10 Brutes
  • 5 Brutes
  • 3 Gore-gruntas
  • 3 Gore-gruntas
  • Ironskull's Boyz
  • Spear Chukka
  • Spear Chukka
  • Spear Chukka

Loadsa units, maybe the most I've seen in an Ironjawz list haha! This is 2,000 on the dot. I'd been wanting to try out the 3 Spear Chukkas since enjoying the pair, and the new addition of Ironskull's Boyz to our arsenal gave me the chance to do so without losing a unit. Sure, they don't have the punch of 5 Brutes, but it doesn't impact my board presence too negatively and in theory should see more reliability from the Spear Chukkas as its not a case of kill one to deny the re-rolls. I'm not sure how great a match up this will be for the Spear Chukkas tbh, but should be interesting I think.

Overall I'm intrigued by Ironskull's Boyz as a new option when list building and think they will definitely have a place in most lists. A nice little bonus for us IMO. I'm glad me and @Sangfroid have not recorded about Ironjawz post GH2017 yet as we would definitely want to discuss this little unit as well.

I will report back on this game next week as I have a lot of work to do tomorrow.

Cheers,
Chris

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Paul Buckler    436
18 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said:

The Black Sunz will be taking on @Paul Buckler's latest project; Slaves to Darkness. It's a Knight heavy build so should be an interesting game. Hoping this will be the start of me getting in regular games again, especially as I'm not playing any more events in 2017.
 

Was a great game last night, can't wait to read the battle report next week.

 

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Xelotath    90

Looking forward to reading the report! my lists I have been brainstorming recently have been almost exactly the same as the one you posted with the allies changed up. I was looking at a pair of Garagants but a Troll Hag seems tempting for only slightly more points. It all hinges on the fact that the Ironskulls are nice and cheap so I'm interested to see how you found them to play and your thoughts on their uses! 

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Chris Tomlin    2,980
On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 7:39 PM, Xelotath said:

Looking forward to reading the report! my lists I have been brainstorming recently have been almost exactly the same as the one you posted with the allies changed up. I was looking at a pair of Garagants but a Troll Hag seems tempting for only slightly more points. It all hinges on the fact that the Ironskulls are nice and cheap so I'm interested to see how you found them to play and your thoughts on their uses! 

The Troggoth Hag is an easy fit for 2 Spear Chukkas and the Weirdnob Shaman. This was the difference between mine and @Sangfroid's lists at Facehammer GT.

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PlasticCraic    51
On 10/11/2017 at 1:45 AM, Chris Tomlin said:

Loadsa units, maybe the most I've seen in an Ironjawz list haha!

Man, you get so much when you drop the Ironfist! I just can't let go of that crutch.

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Chris Tomlin    2,980

Morning all,

22 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Man, you get so much when you drop the Ironfist! I just can't let go of that crutch.

Yeh, it's pretty huge. Still can't say I've missed it if I'm honest!

So, it's time for another quick battle recap!! I had listed my planned army list above, but just in case you missed it;

Cabbage - General, Ironclad, Dabs
Shaman
Warchanter
Warchanter

10 Brutes
5 Brutes
3 Gore-gruntas
3 Gore-gruntas
Ironskull's Boyz

Spear Chukka
Spear Chukka
Spear Chukka

As I mentioned above this is a lot of units for an Ironjawz army! It's actually quite nice to have so many with the Spear Chukkas in the list, as in theory it allows you to pick the most suitable deployment position for them to maximise threat potential etc. This list is a slight variant on my FHGT list, which I described as "the best Ironjawz list I've ever used" (carefully worded so that I'm not claiming it's the best Ironjawz list of course! ;) 
The switch I made was to drop 5 Brutes for Ironskull's Boyz and a 3rd Spear Chukka. I knew I wanted to add the Shadespire Warband as for one they presented a nice opportunity to model and paint something new for the army and secondly, I actually think they are priced really nicely to do a good job for us.
I was a little worried they'd get some good rules and end up being 100+ points, which would not have been ideal. Being pretty crappy, but 80 points is waaaay more useful to us. It gives us a solid body of 8 wounds with a good save (and a mortal wound save) that can be used to hold objectives without having to designate a significantly larger investment to do the job.
In a large percentage of the games I played I found myself having to use my 2 units of 5 Brutes in roles not best suited to then; screening, blocking of areas of the board for teleporting units etc. It just felt wrong everytime. Ironskull's Boyz do not have that much less board presence (though admittedly, it certainly is less) so can do this job as well I feel.
On top of this, we get a 3rd Spear Chukka. Two have been great in all my games, your return only starts to diminish when one is picked off and you lose the rerolls. Having a 3rd builds in some redundancy here, whilst also giving you some pretty horrendous ranged damage potential. It changes the way we play and perhaps more importantly, changes the way opponents have to play against us.
Admittedly I have not played even half as many games under GH2017 as I'd have liked to, but this will come over time and I guess we'll see what I'm saying in 6 months time. Who knows, it could be "Spear Chukkas are rubbish and unreliable!". :P 

Oh, the other option would be to keep the second unit of 5 Brutes in there and just swap out a Warchanter for Ironskull's Boyz. This variant leaves you 20 points under giving the potential for that all important Triumph, which the 10 Brutes love.

Anyway, thats the preamble out of the way. Hopefully I've explained my reasoning soundly enough there. Now, onto the game;

Game 114 vs @Paul Buckler (Slaves to Darkness)
As per usual, Paul was running one of his obscure unique lists. It's always fun to play against Paul in these kind of games as not only is he a complete gent, but you also get to play against stuff you perhaps wouldn't otherwise. This can make for intriguing games as often you haven't got a clue what half of stuff does, or how it interacts together. In this instance it was more of the latter, I'd played vs all the units in Paul's army before, but the combination of them together like this was certainly a new experiance.
He had; Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount, Gaunt Summoner w/ Familiars, Sayl the Faithless, Bloodstoker, Bloodsecrator, Sorceror Lord, 2x 10 Chaos Knights, 5 Chaos Knights, 2x10 Chaos Warriors and a summoning pool that ended up being spent on a Balewind Vortex and 5 Flesh Hounds.
I have to say this army looked absolutely brilliant on the tabletop, Paul's done a nice job in a short space of time (as we've come to expect from the Dogfather). Even more so than this though, it looked utterly imposing. All those large cavalry models cover an impressive amount of space on the board.
So the idea here, if you couldn't work it out, is to buff a unit of 10 Knights up with everything available and then use Traitor's Mist from Sayl to chuck it infront of the opponent and get it in with an easy change (after the game we spoke and going forward Paul will try a second 'stoker over the 'secrator just to guarentee this).
We were playing Scorched Earth, so the potentially for early burns on my objectives was definitely a thing I had to be wary of. As it was, there wasn't much I could do Turn 1 when 10 Knights, with all the buffs, teleported to my right objective and cleared it off before promptly burning it. Ouch. That was a problem (though luckily Paul just rolled a 1 on the D3). This gave me a bit of an issue in my turn as I couldn't immediately use the Maw-krusha to go threaten him, I had to deal with the 10 Knights in my deployment zone before they went down my line causing mayhem.
Luckily the Cabbage did do reasonable work and took out 5 of the 10 Knights. Elsewhere I moved up, using the Spear Chukkas to hold the middle objective and Ironskull's Boyz to hold the left (a perfect role for them, previously this battleplan was a bit of a pain as when I played it before I didn't really have suitable units just to stand back). Paul had cleverly hidden most of his characters from the Spear Chukkas due to some nice blocking terrain. However I was able to kill the Gaunt Summoner and a couple of Knights. I'll say now, the 3 Spear Chukkas were insane this game. Whatever they shot, they hit and wounded. Paul did pass some saves over the game, but they definitely paid for themselves, especially towards the end when he had to start bringing his characters out. They had an absolute field day.
I won the priority for T2 and, spoilers, I actually went on to win all 4 priorities meaning I had the early double and Paul never got one back. This was massive as I had to say that any double turn for Paul would have seen him win I'm sure. In my T2 I was able to get my 10 Brutes into the other 10 Knights who were guarding Paul's centre objective, they actually got to tag on one side of his unit, whilst the other half was in a wood so struggled to bring many into combat with the pile in. Didn't really matter as my guys were beyond useless in combat, so was a complete slapfest. My surviving Gore-grunta unit went into the Chaos Warriors on Paul's right hand objective and with some heavy suppresive fire from the Spear Chukkas supporting them were able to take that objective and eventually burn it in T3.
One big mistake I made was to push up with Ironskullz Boyz. I still kept them in range to score their objective but created a large gap in my backfield which Paul was able to take the Knight unit out of combat with my 10 Brutes and jump them into. A totally unforced error on my part and a sign of my current rustiness. That said, Paul believes if I didn't push forward he would've had space to teleport infront of them. I think he was just trying to make me feel better as I thought that was the game. The Cabbage took the first unit of Knights down to a single model, which subsequently retreated (to later be killed by my Weirdnob Shaman - was worth the risk on my part as at the stage in the game I did this, it looked like it could come down to kill points).
Anyway, we're all a bit disjointed here now...long story short, the Cabbage went over to his left hand objective and failed to kill a single Chaos Warrior in the first round of combat(!!!), however he later claimed and burnt the objective the same time the Gore-gruntas did, scoring me 5. In the centre the 10 Brutes killed the Chaos Lord and held that objective for a turn before later burning it. The 5 Chaos Knights and 5 Brutes were both kinda out of the battle so ended up fighting in the middle just to feel usefull. The other big unit of Knights killed Ironskull's Boyz, burnt that objective and went for my middle one.
So essentially it all came down to a couple of dice rolls at the end for priority and what we got for burning each others central objectives (as it was the Spear Chukkas miraculouisly managed to hold off against some inept Flesh Hounds for one round when they should've lost it!). But yeh, somehow ended up 14-13 to me!! :ph34r:
Result - Major Victory

Wow, sorry guys, that report started off cohesively but ended a complete mess haha! Perhaps I was a little overexcited jumping around the place. Suffice to say it was a really good game that I have to say I was pretty lucky to end up winning. I think I may one massive mistake in allowing that large Knight unit into my backfield, however I managed to priority roll my way to victory (Paul even popped a 5 for his roll on T4, but I confidently declared my pink TBS dice would obviously pop a 6 for mine. It did. Obviously :P).  Paul had some really good armour saves over the game (plenty of rerolls), but I have to say that my Spear Chukkas were insane haha...A good advert for taking 3. They got their points in pure kill points alone, let alone the impact they had in picking off countless Warriors and Knights across the game. I think Paul's army would be much better with generic Chaos allegience so he could take Cunning Deceiver. Oh, big shout out to my Shaman...for failing to cast a spell all game!

Hopefully Paul can share some of his thoughts and commentary on the game as well as I don't believe he has his own thread for this particular army.
But yeh, that's about it really. I have to say the game was just what I needed having not played AoS for some time and dropping out of a bunch of events. I'm away in London on work this Thursday but hope to get back to regular club games soon enough.

Thanks for reading,
Chris

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Sangfroid    550

Great victory Chris, I really need to get a go out with my spear chukkas been persevering with the Troll hag due to the warchiefs event this weekend but after that may give her a little rest :-) 

i think Chaos knights are a very strong choice for chaos now and armed with glaives seem a perfect counter to our armies with the rend and damage 2 on the charge as well as -1 bravery debuff. 

A full scale artillery battery like this (or 4 rocklobbers) maybe a good companion to 30 strong Ardboyz unit. The AB can block of a large section of the field and if the enemy cant shoot over them then the artillery will take a significant toll combine this with a Mawkrusha to do the heavy combat work, characters and pigs to finish up 

mawkrusha

weirdnob

warchanter

warchanter

30 ardboyz

3 x 3 gorepigs

3x3 spearchukka 

=1970

frightens me to see an army with out any brutes in it though....

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Paul Buckler    436

Good write up Chris, think you summed it up pretty well.  The chukkas were on fire, and did everything you needed.  Priority for me turn 3 or 4 and I think it was game over, I grabbed 2 of your objectives which would have cost you 3 points overall, and gained me 2 or 3 (depending if I had burnt).

Liking the list, it has no shooting but is very mobile with Sayl on the board, even without him the knights are fast.

Cunning D is prob the optimal choice, but you know me, I prefer the whacky option for the 1 in 6 games where it happens.  -4 bravery on a unit of brutes cold have been amazing if I had gotten it off.

Hopefully you are getting your gaming mojo back and get to play on a regular basis for a while now

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Banglesprout    27

Hey @Chris Tomlin, thanks for the report!

3 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said:

This list is a slight variant on my FHGT list, which I described as "the best Ironjawz list I've ever used" (carefully worded so that I'm not claiming it's the best Ironjawz list of course! ;)

Haha the good old Carlsburg  get out clause :P

So do you like the 3 chukkas as a serious option? I guess it might be hard to tell after just one game  in which they were brilliant, but does 3 feel better than 2, or too many points invested in them.

@Sangfroid interesting option! I had a go seeing if I could sneak one 10 strong brute squad into that list but couldn't find a gap big enough for them :(

However I'm not sure you need both warchanters in that list and if you drop one you could go for a full on Rockjawz list

Cabbage

Warchanter

Weirdnob Shaman

30 Ardboyz

3 x 3 Gruntas

4 Rocklobberz

1990 points

I know the lobberz aren't as good as the chukkas or divers, but I quite like that because there are four they can be placed in two groups of two - holding two objectives and meaning the opponent has to attack two different places to take them all out, but they still all get their battery bonus.

To be honest though I'm mostly just sold because of the name Rockjawz 😎

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Sangfroid    550

@Banglesprout rockjawz sounds awesome! Against horde armies 4 shots hitting on 2s extra attacks on a 5+ for units of 10+ quite tasty and actually on average more damage than 3 spearcukkas (they are obviously better against heroes) 

if rocklobbas weren’t £25 a pop id be very interested 

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Nico    1,947

This was my instinct too. 

The longer range, fixed damage and no need for line of sight are tempting.

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Banglesprout    27
3 hours ago, Sangfroid said:

@Banglesprout rockjawz sounds awesome! Against horde armies 4 shots hitting on 2s extra attacks on a 5+ for units of 10+ quite tasty and actually on average more damage than 3 spearcukkas (they are obviously better against heroes) 

if rocklobbas weren’t £25 a pop id be very interested 

Oh I actually have two from "back in the day" so I'm quite tempted to give it a go, but to be honest I even think they're the kinda thing that is very scratch-buildable if you're not sure of the price..

2 hours ago, Nico said:

This was my instinct too. 

The longer range, fixed damage and no need for line of sight are tempting.

Yeah not needing LOS seems great to me.

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PlasticCraic    51
1 hour ago, Banglesprout said:

Oh I actually have two from "back in the day" so I'm quite tempted to give it a go, but to be honest I even think they're the kinda thing that is very scratch-buildable if you're not sure of the price..

Yeah not needing LOS seems great to me.

100%  scratch buildable!  My mate has basically glued the catapult thing that nobody uses from the Arachnarok kit onto the correct-sized oval bases.  Hey presto, Spider Lobbas!  Very easy to make. 

I'd thought about maybe making "Git Lobbas", with Greenskin "volunteers" as the ammunition...emphasizing that Greenskinz are to Ironjawz, what Grots are to Greenskinz.

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Nico    1,947

Perhaps use the Grot Scraplauncher? It’s a bit cheaper and more importantly PLASTIC.

It even comes with a mini Pig.

Edited by Nico
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Chris Tomlin    2,980

Morning all,

Friday at last!! It's been a looooong week...spending 6 hours on a train for a 1 hour meeting in London yesterday was surprisingly draining. Fortunately I made it to club in the evening, but a combination of not actually eating and a few cans of battlebrew whilst playing means I'm not feeling my best this morning haha!!

Anyway, some replies;

@Sangfroid - Yeh the Chaos Knights were pretty legit. Indeed he had the glaives. I think your list seems decent, but like you I don't think I'd be happy running a list without Brutes.

On ‎14‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 12:30 PM, Paul Buckler said:

Good write up Chris, think you summed it up pretty well.  The chukkas were on fire, and did everything you needed.  Priority for me turn 3 or 4 and I think it was game over, I grabbed 2 of your objectives which would have cost you 3 points overall, and gained me 2 or 3 (depending if I had burnt).

Liking the list, it has no shooting but is very mobile with Sayl on the board, even without him the knights are fast.

Cunning D is prob the optimal choice, but you know me, I prefer the whacky option for the 1 in 6 games where it happens.  -4 bravery on a unit of brutes cold have been amazing if I had gotten it off.

Hopefully you are getting your gaming mojo back and get to play on a regular basis for a while now

Glad you agree. It would be good if you had your own thread for this army...not so I could read the report of our game, but so I could read about your game with @Cowboy Boots Matt last night haha!! ;) Agreed to Slaves to Darkness allegiance stuff does give you the possibility of doing something cool and get that it appeals to the way you approach your game.

Indeed, the mojo is back! Woohoo!!

On ‎14‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 2:23 PM, Banglesprout said:

Hey @Chris Tomlin, thanks for the report!

Haha the good old Carlsburg  get out clause :P

So do you like the 3 chukkas as a serious option? I guess it might be hard to tell after just one game  in which they were brilliant, but does 3 feel better than 2, or too many points invested in them.

I know the lobberz aren't as good as the chukkas or divers, but I quite like that because there are four they can be placed in two groups of two - holding two objectives and meaning the opponent has to attack two different places to take them all out, but they still all get their battery bonus.

To be honest though I'm mostly just sold because of the name Rockjawz 😎

Haha yeh, gotta be done.

Honestly, I dunno about the 3 Chukkas yet. I'm going to stick with them for now and see how I get on. It does feel like a lot of points though. That said, the army overall doesn't feel small or like they are a point sink.

I actually really like the Rock Lobbers. On rules alone I think they would be my pick tbh. I went with the Spear Chukkas due to my Brutes with Crossbow models. Me and Kieran frequently bring them up in conversation and I do have some conversions in mind for them myself.

Also, I approve of the name Rockjawz!

On ‎14‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 9:03 PM, Nico said:

This was my instinct too. 

The longer range, fixed damage and no need for line of sight are tempting.

Exactly the reasons why they'd be my choice based on rules alone.

Anyway, as mentioned above it was another week and another game at the club on Thursday...regular gaming, what's this about? I'm really happy to actually be playing some games again and what's really great is that I've been able to squeeze in Shadespire after my AoS games the last two weeks as well (me and @Paul Buckler took a 1-1 draw yesterday, 7-8, 5-3 - Ironskull's Boyz vs Steelheart's Champions).

I won't be doing a full report of the game or anything this week as it's not really necessary haha!! So rather than waiting until next week or anything I can just post up a brief summary now.

I used the same list as last time as I want to get a better feel for Ironskull's Boyz in AoS and also to see whether the 3 Spear Chukkas are really worth the hefty investment (I rolled almost too well for them vs Paul last week which makes it hard to accurate judge their worth). So just to recap;

Cabbage - General, Ironclad, Dabs
Shaman
Warchanter
Warchanter

10 Brutes
5 Brutes
3 Gore-gruntas
3 Gore-gruntas
Ironskull's Boyz

Spear Chukka
Spear Chukka
Spear Chukka

Game 115 vs Tom Oughton (Stormcast Eternals)
Tom has recently finished painting his first 2,000 point AoS army and it's looking really nice. His list was a little different to other Stormcast lists I've seen, but helps demonstrate the sheer depth and versatility in that book. He had;
Celestant on Dracoth, Relictor, Heraldor, 2x 5 Liberators, 5 Judicators, 3 Prosecutors w/ Javelins, 3 Prosecutors w/ Hammers, 2x 5 Retributors, 2x 3 Palladors and a Hammerstrike formation that dropped in the Retributors with Prosecutors and allowed them to do mortal wounds on a 5+.
Really cool varied and balanced army there. Awesome to see the Palladors on the table for the first time. The models are way bigger than I realised, I really like them!
We rolled up Duality of Death and I gotta admit, I was feeling confident. Possibly too confident if I'm honest. I thought the combination of the Cabbage being able to sit on one objective whilst the Spear Chukkas went to town on his heroes would surely see me through to the win.
However, this really wasn't the case. A mixture of perhaps cockiness and rustiness saw me put the Cabbage on the 12" line without using any of my units as screens / bubble wrap. Tom proceeded to take the first turn (which I initially thought was a mistake) and dropped everything he need to. He went all in on taking down the Maw-krusha, super stacking that side. He shot off 4 wounds and then splatted me in combat with 5(!) Retributors. Ouch. I even managed 4 dabs along the way and it still didn't save him. Not good.
Tom then was able to hide all 3 of his heroes from my Spear Chukkas until he killed them off with Prosecutors. He was able to gun down my Shaman and one Warchanter as well. Basically he played the Battleplan really well. Whilst I had some bad luck (and I really did - 4 1's for first 4 Maw-krusha etc.) I cannot bemoan anything other than my bad play and credit Tom's good play!
I ended up getting a Warchanter on one objective for 2 turns but the objective score ended 3-10 to Tom and I got tabled, killing just 200 kill points myself along the way. Ouch!! Horrendous result (but a really fun game it has to be said). Also after winning 4/4 priorities vs Paul last week, I got 0/4 here haha!!
Result - Major Defeat.

Not too much to say or indeed take from this, other than that I need to play more and play better! That said, had I protected the Maw-krusha it may not have much better in terms of the result. One thing that in hindsight was pretty big is that I won the roll off for table sides and stayed where I was out of laziness. Had I forced the swap, he would not have been able to hide his heroes from my Spear Chukkas, which ended up being pretty decisive. As it was, they kinda failed me anyway with the 3 of them failing to kill 2 Liberators one turn (which would've freed up my 10 Brutes to charge elsewhere). I suppose it's good for me to have a game like that where I see the downsides to them.
Gurzag Ironskull himself was the last model to die in my army, giving a defiant head-butt to a Pallador before he went down. Unfortunately he and his boyz had a non-game as he would have been much better utilised as Cabbage protection.

But yeh, that was a bit of an eye opener it has to be said. Oh well though, you live and learn!!
Anyway, I'm pleased for Tom. It was cool from him to get out his newly painted army, which is a different build he's come up with himself. He clearly had a game plan from the start, he executed it well and got a thoroughly deserved result so zero complaints my end.

Thanks for reading,
Chris

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Nico    1,947
Quote

Tom then was able to hide all 3 of his heroes from my Spear Chukkas until he killed them off with Prosecutors.

This just pushes me to Rock Lobbas even more. Thinking of converting the Scrap Launchers.

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Lolpatrol    0

 

11 minutes ago, Nico said:

This just pushes me to Rock Lobbas even more. Thinking of converting the Scrap Launchers.

What about Doom Divers?

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Malakree    221
13 minutes ago, Lolpatrol said:

 

What about Doom Divers?

Rock lobbas 

  • 100 points. This means you can field 4 at 2000pts
  • 40" range, no LoS
  • 1 attack at 3+(to 5+)/3+/-2/3
  • Extra shot on 6+ hit roll in batteries
  • +1 vs units of 10 or more.

Doom Divers

  • 120 points. This means you can field 3 at 2000pts
  • 50" range (to 20"), no LoS
  • 1 attack at 3+/3+/-1/d3
  • d6 damage in batteries
  • On miss 4+ to hit a different unit instead.

So the important differences are

  • 40 points spare per 2 rock lobbas, or 40 points more for the 4th rock lobba.
  • 1 extra Rend for Rock Lobba, Flat 3 damage vs d6
  • Extra shot on a roll of 6+ (5+ vs units of 10 or more).
  • No miss redirect on a 4+

Assuming optimal conditions, your doom diver hits on a 3+. This means that the 4+ to redirect is functionally a "hit" on a 2+ (D6 roll of 1 = 1-3, D6 roll of 2 = 4-6. 3+ is a hit). Hence it's fair to say doom divers generically "hit on a 2+" provided you don't care about who you hit.

For Character sniping

  • Both hit on a 3+
  • The Rocklobba has an extra rend
  • Guaranteed 3 damage vs d6
  • Extra shot on 6+ to hit

The important thing to note here is that most characters are 5/6 wounds, so 2 hits from a rock lobba will kill them guaranteed. On the other hand the doom diver has a 1/5 or 1/6 chance to instikill them but has approximately the same chance to not kill them in 2 shots. When you add in the extra rend, potential second shot and 20 point cost reduction I feel for character sniping the rock lobba is the better choice.

For hitting Unit Blocks

  • Both hit on a 2+ (see above for doomdiver)
  • Rocklobba has an extra rend
  • Guaranteed 3 damage vs d6
  • Extra shot on 5+ to hit

In this case the consistency of the damage is less relevant. The extra rend is going to be quite important vs some armies, particularly ones with rerollable saves. The extra shot on a 5+ is also amazingly nice. In this situation the two are more or less equivalent, there are a couple of reasons for this. Against small elite units the rock lobba becomes less effective but the extra rend is much nicer, against large chaff units the rock lobba becomes more effective but the rend becomes potentially less useful. In both situations the damage range of the doom diver is probably far more useful than the flat damage.

  • Against anything with negative to hit vs shooting, Nurgle being the obvious choice, the Doom Diver is king. It's Grot-Guided Missile gets better and better as the opponent gets harder to hit while a -1 cripples the rock lobba against small units and -2 against ALL units.

Conclusion

As a character sniping tool, which is what they want to replace the spear chukkas, the rock lobba is better. While for general purposes the two are essentially equivalent. The main thing that puts the rock lobba ahead is the 20 point cost reduction. That has a huge bunch of implications not least is that you can field 4, this gives you 2 batteries instead of 1 and increases your number of shots by 33%.

 

Hence, Rock Lobba over Doom Diver.

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Chris Tomlin    2,980

Will reply to the individual posts at a later date, but shout out to @Malakree for his nice break down there.

I've considered this variant on my triple Spear Chukka build;

Cabbage - General, Ironclad, Dabs
Shaman
Warchanter
Warchanter

10 Brutes
3 Gore-gruntas
3 Gore-gruntas
3 Gore-gruntas
Ironskull's Boyz

Rock Lobber
Rock Lobber
Rock Lobber
Rock Lobber

I definitely fancy trying this out at some point!

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Lysandestolpe    625
8 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Will reply to the individual posts at a later date, but shout out to @Malakree for his nice break down there.

I've considered this variant on my triple Spear Chukka build;

Cabbage - General, Ironclad, Dabs
Shaman
Warchanter
Warchanter

10 Brutes
3 Gore-gruntas
3 Gore-gruntas
3 Gore-gruntas
Ironskull's Boyz

Rock Lobber
Rock Lobber
Rock Lobber
Rock Lobber

I definitely fancy trying this out at some point!

I have been looking at something similar since I have 3 Rocklobbers and I can easily build a 4th. I would need 3 more gruntas tho.... :o

Make sure you let us know the result if you try it.

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Chris Tomlin    2,980
3 minutes ago, Lysandestolpe said:

I have been looking at something similar since I have 3 Rocklobbers and I can easily build a 4th. I would need 3 more gruntas tho.... :o

Make sure you let us know the result if you try it.

Will do...though perhaps you'll get around to it before me. It'll probably be the new year before I can afford all the bits I need for my conversions haha

Chris

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Sangfroid    550

Gonna break your heart here @Chris Tomlin I was going to private message this to you but then thought it’s worth having up here for da other ladz to know just in case they are also unfamiliar with stormcast formations (and the hammer strike is quite a popular one) 

the Hammerstrike lets the Paladins get +1 to wound rolls on the turn they drop if in range of the prosecutors this is particularly good for protectors agaisnt monsters as they do d6 damage on a wound roll of a 6 (5 when they drop out of the sky in a Hammerstrike) 

Retributors do 2 mortal wounds if they roll a 6 to hit (so un effected by being in the Hammerstrike aside from wounding on 2s if they hit but don’t roll a 6) 

Tom is a new player so easy mistake to make, he needs a Celestant on foot to use command abilty AND be in 9” range to buff the Retributors still a great combo when pulled off correctly though :-)

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3 hours ago, Sangfroid said:

Gonna break your heart here @Chris Tomlin I was going to private message this to you but then thought it’s worth having up here for da other ladz to know just in case they are also unfamiliar with stormcast formations (and the hammer strike is quite a popular one) 

the Hammerstrike lets the Paladins get +1 to wound rolls on the turn they drop if in range of the prosecutors this is particularly good for protectors agaisnt monsters as they do d6 damage on a wound roll of a 6 (5 when they drop out of the sky in a Hammerstrike) 

Retributors do 2 mortal wounds if they roll a 6 to hit (so un effected by being in the Hammerstrike aside from wounding on 2s if they hit but don’t roll a 6) 

Tom is a new player so easy mistake to make, he needs a Celestant on foot to use command abilty AND be in 9” range to buff the Retributors still a great combo when pulled off correctly though :-)

I can vouch for the effectiveness of the Hammerstrike Batallion. My friend has been finding a lot of success with that build. You need to kill those prosecutors right away since they can drop the Retributors at least 3 inches away from an enemy. And @Sangfroid is correct. The +1  to wound is dangerous for any unit of Paladins, but especially those Protectors and Retributors. A unit of Liberators can also come down through the Prosecutors, so imagine a unit of 10 being dropped on an objective with a Lord-Castellant nearby. That's a hard nut to crack. Mobility however, is not  their strength after they drop down. Once they're on the board, that's where they're likely to stay unless the objectives are close enough

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