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The Black Sunz - Ironjawz - Update 28/02 - PICS! Whole new army painted!!


Chris Tomlin

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Don't think it was mentioned yet @Chris Tomlin but I'm not sure you can use the artifacts or any of the "Destruction" special rules unless you're running the army as "Destruction". Since you used Ironjawz models as your battleline, that would cut you off from taking the artifacts and such. Not positive if I'm reading the rules correctly though, so feel free to disregard/attack me viciously if I'm mistaken.

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14 minutes ago, Byro said:

Don't think it was mentioned yet @Chris Tomlin but I'm not sure you can use the artifacts or any of the "Destruction" special rules unless you're running the army as "Destruction". Since you used Ironjawz models as your battleline, that would cut you off from taking the artifacts and such. Not positive if I'm reading the rules correctly though, so feel free to disregard/attack me viciously if I'm mistaken.

It has been brought up in this thread and the other threads in this section a few times actually. 

It will be in an FAQ soon and it goes like this. 

You use the key words to build a legal list. 

Step 2 is you then use the keywords in your army to pick allegiance bonuses and artifacts. 

It has been rumoured that ironjawz will get an update to their battletome soon to be in line with bonespliterz and sylvaneth anyway, but it seems like we will have a choice of either.  

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1 hour ago, Sangfroid said:

Great reports @Chris Tomlin close games and plenty of broken heads sounds a blast, you have fought 2 of the tough counters to ironjawz, mortal wounds spam and high rend multi damage attacks. Looking forward to hearing how the last game went :-)

I saw on Twitter that he almost smashed sylvaneth turn one taking 15 out of 16 wounds from alerielle on the charge from his megaboss on mawcrusher. 

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Good summary of our game Chris, pretty much you were up for the first 3 turns, then the bullgor went mental!  The extra movement is really scary from the other side of the board.  The previous game we played the brutes trudged forwards pretty slowly, but this time they were at me fast.  With a shooty or less hitty list it would really be an issue.

One thing is you got tempted into using foot of Gork, rather than a much more castable mystic shield early game.  Think thats something you def should try to reign in unless its really needed.  Mystic shield on those brutes helped so much when I fought them.  Also you left your war chanter behind and unable to help his mates out mid game, you spotted it the next turn and commented on it.

It was a great game, we always seem to have loads of fun when we play, really close as well, proabably 200 points in it end game, adding up.  Best way to start off my first bossfest and set the tone for the rest of the weekend.

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9 hours ago, N_Watson said:

I saw on Twitter that he almost smashed sylvaneth turn one taking 15 out of 16 wounds from alerielle on the charge from his megaboss on mawcrusher. 

Spoilers bro!!! ;)

Haha yeh the 3rd report will be up later today. I'll also acknowledge all the other above responses.

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10 hours ago, Byro said:

Don't think it was mentioned yet @Chris Tomlin but I'm not sure you can use the artifacts or any of the "Destruction" special rules unless you're running the army as "Destruction". Since you used Ironjawz models as your battleline, that would cut you off from taking the artifacts and such. Not positive if I'm reading the rules correctly though, so feel free to disregard/attack me viciously if I'm mistaken.

Hey,

Yeh you are defo right, it does completely read that way. Us Ironjawz players were a little worried when someone first spotted that last week. Thankfully though, the intent from GW is that you can always revert to the Grand Alliance allegiance benefits and an FAQ will be released with the General's Handbook to confirm this point. You can check out some Twitter convos here...

 

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14 hours ago, Sangfroid said:

Great reports @Chris Tomlin close games and plenty of broken heads sounds a blast, you have fought 2 of the tough counters to ironjawz, mortal wounds spam and high rend multi damage attacks. Looking forward to hearing how the last game went :-)

Cheers mate. Yeh I hadn't really thought about it like that, in that both armies were strong counters. The Bulltribe absolutely destroyed the 5 man units of Brutes and the 10 only stuck around moderately longer due to being immune to Battleshock. Tough for sure. Problem is where the Ironjawz are borderline one dimensional (well, I guess they just are and I probably need to accept that soon!) it's pretty tough to react, even with a sideboard (talking pure Ironjawz).

6 hours ago, Nixon said:

This is a very good read. Thanks for doing it. 

And some great looking models as well. 

Thanks! 

Thanks @Nixon really appreciate that and I'm pleased you're enjoying the thread so far. There should be plenty more pics of models over the coming weeks as I'm trying to get the army done for some upcoming events.

4 hours ago, Paul Buckler said:

One thing is you got tempted into using foot of Gork, rather than a much more castable mystic shield early game.  Think thats something you def should try to reign in unless its really needed. 

Also you left your war chanter behind and unable to help his mates out mid game, you spotted it the next turn and commented on it.

It was a great game, we always seem to have loads of fun when we play, really close as well, proabably 200 points in it end game, adding up.  Best way to start off my first bossfest and set the tone for the rest of the weekend.

@Paul Buckler - Thanks mate, I've trimmed your post down for the quote to highlight some key points. I think I have said myself on this forum (if not, certainly in person) that I 100% have this issue with Foot of Gork. I always know it's not the right choice, pretty much ever, but get over excited by the potential and waste my Weirdnob almost always! haha. Maybe I'll have to strike through the spell in my book or something! As you say, I did make a mistake on the Warchanter (I believe you did offer me a retrospective move once I pointed it out) forgetting to run him up. It's really key and flat out shouldn't be making simple errors like that...I'm gonna put that one down to beer! Totally agreed on the last point, can't begrudge you the win, was a great game.

So onto Game 3 I guess. As the army list is on the first page, I'll post it again here...

Da Black Sunz - Ironjawz 2,000 points (Destruction Allegiance in game)

  • Megaboss on Maw-krusha (Artefact: Talisman of Preservation)
  • Megaboss Krunk (Trait: Ravager. Artefact: Battle Brew)
  • Warchanter
  • Weirdnob Shaman
  • Ironfist
  • 10 Brutes (Jagged Hackas)
  • 5 Brutes (Choppas)
  • 5 Brutes (Choppas)
  • 10 Ardboyz (9 Big Choppas, 1 shield)
  • 3 Gore-gruntas (Choppas)

Game 3 - vs Aaron Bailey - Sylvaneth

This was my first game against the Sylvaneth, therefore my first game against what I guess we'd call a pure faction army in AoS (one with their own traits and artefacts etc). We played the Places of Power Battleplan - basically 3 objectives across the centre of the table that get control by heroes. As Aaron is attending Rain of Stars, which doesn't require Battleline units, we agreed he didn't have to use them (counting it as a practice game I suppose). I think he thought that being allowed not to, combined with heroes scoring, meant he shouldn't take any Battleline units. This, in my opinion, was a mistake. His army was (roughly); Alarielle, Drycha, Shard of Durthu, Treelord Ancient, 6 Kurnoth Hunters with Bows...and I think that might be it?!

One good move he made was to deploy the Kurnoth Hunters in one unit of 6, meaning to beat me on deployment, giving him first turn. Obviously in standard Matched Play this doesn't work as you have a set list, but for Rain of Stars you can sideboard and nothing in your overall army has fixed unit sizes, allowing for greater flexibility. In his first turn he buffed up, pushed Alarielle onto one Place of Power, supported by Durthu. Laid another Wild Wood, shot a couple of wounds off the Cabbage with the Hunters (they rolled very poorly) and just moved Drycha and the Treelord up towards the other two objectives (but not claiming them).

My first turn was awesome. I'd set my army out to maximise coverage of heroes for the objectives and also Rampaging Destroyers (I should've noted in Game 2 that I made some poor moves, meaning in future turns I lost this fantastic Battle Trait - a lesson well learnt). Aaron was visibly surprised by the sheer amount of movement by army had. My plan was to basically shield my characters with a unit or two each (as these can move faster thanks to Ironfist formation aswell as the trait) and push forward. It turned out to be a very good plan (in this instance) and highlighted the frailty of Aaron's army without any troops to assist.

I had considered dropping the Ravager command trait for Nothing Left Standing, to smash up the Wild Woods, but as it panned out the extra movement was really key in this Battleplan. The Weirdnob and Cabbage were both able to grab the other two Places of Power and then in my charge phase I decided to go, well, all in! I braved some charges through Wild Woods and thankfully, fortune favoured the brave in this instance as I lost very little. I had the Gruntas and half of the 10 Brutes (fully buffed) on Durthu, the other half of the big Brute unit, the Megaboss, 5 Brutes and the Cabbage on Alarielle, 5 Brutes on the Treelord and 10 Ardboyz on Drycha!!!

To cut a pretty short story shorter(!), I smashed him. Good and proper. If the first combat phase wasn't brutal enough (helped by Aaron's poor dice rolling when attacking back it has to be said), I also won priority to T2 allowing me to wipe him out. That said, by the end of T1, Alarielle and Durthu were both dead and Megaboss Krunk and taken the 3rd Place of Power after doing the final wound on Alarielle after the Cabbage inflicted 15 wounds on the charge!! Aaron did forget to attempt to transfer these to Durthu to be fair, but this wouldn't have mattered as by the time both Slyvaneth characters went down, I still had 10 Brutes left to fight her (would've potentially been 15 depending on whether the deflected wounds killed Durthu before the first Brute unit struck).

Result - Major Victory

So yeah...that one went pretty well. I think, truth be told. a lot of that came down to Aaron's list. Oddly in a Battleplan where heroes are needed to score, I think having some units to protect and support them are utterly vital. I also think he underestimated (or just didn't realise) the movement potential of my army and the raw power it can have when attacking. I look forward to a rematch with Aaron and I am sure he has the tools to make it much more of a challenge in future.

I think my gameplan worked, and actually, whatever the opposition army, I think I would probably try to play like this when I next play this particular Battleplan.

I guess that's all for now, I'll add anything I've forgotten another time. I also still have a couple of snaps of the games themselves to share.

Thanks for reading, hope you enjoyed. I'm pleased to be able to report on at least one victory so far! ;) 

Chris

Edited by Chris Tomlin
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Good report.

I would have thought that the Hunters should be sniping your buffing characters (Warchanter and Shaman) rather than trying to take out a 3+ save monster. Either that or drop a lot of damage on one unit of poor bravery brutes and hope to nail them with Battleshock.

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1 hour ago, Nico said:

Good report.

I would have thought that the Hunters should be sniping your buffing characters (Warchanter and Shaman) rather than trying to take out a 3+ save monster. Either that or drop a lot of damage on one unit of poor bravery brutes and hope to nail them with Battleshock.

Cheers.

Yeh I agree that going for a soft target that can be deleted would of been a better choice. To be honest with you I couldn't say for certain he did actually target the Cabbage, its just that I don't recall taking any damage from shooting other than a couple of wounds on him, but I guess that could've come from Alarielle's spear.

Over the weekend Aaron played a lot (at least 6 games) with the new Sylvaneth and had mixed results. He hasn't played much AoS at all and I think would say himself his play wasn't perhaps as tight as it could've been throughout (I noticed some odd target selection in another of his games vs Flesh-eaters, though it turned out he did have a plan there). I guess a lot comes with experience of opposing units as well as your own. Even though I've played a lot of AoS, I still find myself making mistakes and learning, both about my units and the plethora of things out there I haven't yet played.

We could definitely see the potential of the Sylvaneth over the weekend, I do think they will be quite the force on the tabletop in the hands of an experienced/good player - It's quite nice in a way that you can't just put them down and auto win though, which I was a little worried Aaron would do!!

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Yeah - based on theoryhammer, they look like they will need a lot of finesse to play well. The combat synergies just aren't there (cf. Bloodbound, Tomb Kings), so it looks like it's all about movement and teleporting, healing and defensive cheese (Spirit of Durthu), a bit of long ranged shooting and some great spells. They probably have major vulnerability to an early adverse double turn as their normal units cannot take a pounding with 5+ saves and 1 wound models (unlike say Nurgle Daemons who can weather the blow a bit more). Really looking to playing one of these armies.

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On 7/18/2016 at 6:50 AM, Chris Tomlin said:

plus some chat around 1,000 point Ironjawz (for an upcoming doubles event). Essentially, spoiler, I'm really hyped for the army at the moment!!

I'm really curious what you have to say about 1,000 point Ironjawz. I"m brand new and shooting for 1000 pts of Ironjawz for a start, and I was thinking about something like

Megaboss 140

Warchanter 80

Brutes x 5 180

Ardboys x 5 180

Gore-gruntas x 3 180

Ironfist 60

 

And then either another Brutes / Ardboys or a Weirdnob, leaning toward another battle line unit atm.

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@Nico - Agreed. Be interesting to see how they pan out for sure. Will be a few at Rain of Stars I suspect anyway.

@Dez - Cheers bro!

@Auriel - Thanks for replying. I laughed whilst reading your list, and here's why;

Da Black Sunz - Ironjawz - 1,000 points - Brothers of Sigmar (Doubles)

  • Megaboss Krunk (Trait: Ravager / Artefact: Battle Brew or Talisman)
  • Warchanter
  • Ironfist
  • 10 Brutes (Jagged Hackas)
  • 5 Brutes (Choppas)
  • 10 Ardboys (9 Big Choppas, 1 shield)

Which, as you'll know, is 1,000 points dead on! What's even funnier is that in an ideal world I'd probably drop the 5 Brutes for 3 Gore-gruntas, making the list potentially identical to yours!! However as per my pics on the first page, that unit of 5 Brutes with Choppas is actually painted so with a tight deadline looming (20th August) and lots of painting still to do, I simply can't afford to drop them from the list.

I don't think our lists being similar is much of a coincidence though to be honest. The combo of Megaboss, Warchanter, Ironfist and then 4x units of your choosing to fill out 1k is a pretty solid/obvious choice I guess. Adding the Weirdnob leaves you with points you can't do much with (unless you really change the list up). I can't vouch for it being any good mind!

The unit of 10 Brutes is good as it is a lot of wounds and can take the Warchanter buff + immune to Battleshock. This way it'll stick around for a while meaning the Battalion's Big Boss (who should be in this unit) will remain alive longer giving you the Battalion benefit later into the game. Does that make sense?

I suppose a lot will come down to the Battleplans you are going to be playing. If you need more bodies, then more Ardboyz is a good choice. Also, if you haven't purchased any models yet you could buy 2 of the new Start Collecting: Ironjawz boxes, giving you the following list;

  • Warchanter
  • Warchanter
  • Ironfist
  • 10 Ardboyz
  • 10 Ardboyz
  • 3 Gore-gruntas
  • 3 Gore-gruntas

From an independent retailer you could be paying as little as £80 for this solid starter army (940 points). You could also potentially convert one of the Warchanters into a Weirdnob Shaman perhaps if you wanted to keep to a budget. Unfortunately try to make a Megaboss out of him might be a stretch too far!

Anyway, let me know what you decide and how your games go! :)

Chris

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Wassup Warchanters!?

Hope everyone is well...it's finally Friday so you should be, also new TBS episode out this weekend! ;) 

Last night, as planned, I got to play my good friend Gary Hennessey and his pure Flesh-eater Courts army. As will now be pretty standard for us, it was a 2,000pt game under the General's Handbook. We played...um...why am I so rubbish with these Battleplan names...Border War? I dunno, something like that.

Basically there are 4 objectives, 1 in each deployment zone and two in the middle of the board. You claim objectives if at the end of any turn you have more models than your opponent within 6", you then "tag" them and can freely move away if you desire. At the end of your turn you score for any objectives you hold. 1VP for the one in your deployment zone, 2VP for either of the middle two and 4VP for the one in the enemy deployment zone. Straight off the bat I thought this seemed pretty cool. I wasn't wrong.

Both our armies were 2k exactly, so no triumphs.

Da Black Sunz - Ironjawz 2,000 points (Destruction Allegiance in game)

  • Megaboss on Maw-krusha (Artefact: Meteoric Hammerblade)
  • Megaboss Krunk (Trait: Ravager. Artefact: Battle Brew)
  • Warchanter
  • Weirdnob Shaman
  • Ironfist
  • 10 Brutes (Jagged Hackas)
  • 5 Brutes (Choppas)
  • 5 Brutes (Choppas)
  • 10 Ardboyz (9 Big Choppas, 1 shield)
  • 3 Gore-gruntas (Choppas)

Game 4 - vs Gary Hennessey - Flesh-eater Courts @The Lost Lighthouse (Gary)

I should preface this report by saying that my record vs Gary in any miniatures wargame is utterly terrible, he is a complete bogey opponent and it's pretty inexplicable (I will flat out not consider him being a better player as the reason!! ;) x). On the flip side, in any card based game we play, I tend to get the upper hand. So I wasn't really all that confident going into the game, I thought I'd just try my best to #cabbagestomp him good n' proper and see how it served me.

His army was (roughly); Crypt Haunter Coutier (General; Von Carstein Ring), Ghoul King, Ghoul King on Zombie Spider Dragon (think this guy had an artefact but I can't remember), 2 Crypt Ghast Courtiers, Varghulf Courtier, 2x 30 Ghouls, 6 Crypt Horrors and 3 Crypt Flayers. He also had some sweet 20 point Battalion that allowed one his units to "reform" (free 6" move, although one model stays still) - pretty good for its points considering it gets you an artefact as well.

I actually have a Flesh-eater Court army myself. I've only played one game with it and I actually found it pretty tough to keep track of and best utilise the plethora of synergies they have. I know Gary has played quite a lot of games (including all the GH battleplans) with them so I was looking forward to seeing the army work properly. At first I was pleased he didn't bring his Ghoul King's pet Mourngul, but on reflection, whilst it is super super strong, I think he would've lost out a lot in the way of synergy, which the list really thrives on.

I'd opted to take the Hammerblade on the Cabbage this time around, the thinking being that if he could get into either of the big Ghoul units he could make a right mess. I'll say upfront, that this didn't come to fruition (vegtablition?). Despite being in a number of positions where it could of had an impact, it was never needed and I did not roll for this. I'm really starting to think that this item is one that looks so good on paper, but perhaps doesn't have quite the desired effect in game. I dunno. If my Brutes hadn't done so well in a round of combat I probably would've used it. Gary had no mortal wound output to speak of, so it's not like I was bemoaning the lack of Talisman. hhhm more testing required.

Anyhow, I beat Gary on deployment thanks to the Ironfist and after surveying the battlefield (I won't discuss what was where, I will add photos of all 4 battles at some point, but in the mean time you can check the media on my Twitter feed for the pics @the_black_sun), opted to allow Gary to take the first turn.

There was a nice big piece of Damned terrain in his deployment zone. After a quick discussion, Gary realised he was able to take the hit and pick up the Damned buff on a unit of Ghouls and the Horrors, before firing up the Courtier ability to regrow any Ghouls (well, the ones who didn't pass their 5+ from the trait - I don't wish to bang on about this, but I probably will. Man it's good!!). Pretty nifty "combo". He put up a couple of spells/buffs etc and moved forward, sitting on the two central objectives. It was at this point I realised he could claim and score both of these in the first turn, putting him 5-0 up. I was kicking myself a bit here as I arguably I should've taken first turn and done the same myself. Still, it wasn't all lost and I knew I'd be able to strike back pretty hard.

In my turn I did indeed strike back. Gary was surprised by my speed and ability to get units in the positions they needed to be. The only downside was the unit of 10 Brutes (buffed up as standard) rolled poorly for the Ironfist and Rampaging destroyers. Still, on my right the Cabbage, 5 Brutes and Megaboss Krunk got into 30 Ghouls (which had Inspiring Presence on them), the 10 Brutes didn't roll far enough to join that fight so instead went for the Crypt Flayers who had jumped into terrain right in the centre of the table. On my left, the Gore-Gruntas and Ardboyz went into the other Ghoul unit (this was the one with the buff from Damned).

As it played out, the Cabbage didn't even get to attack (other than his Destructive Bulk charge attack which killed a good few) as 5 Brutes and Megaboss Krunk absolutely obliterated the entire unit of Ghouls to a man!!! I was using Gary's new Age of SigBrah dice against him to good effect at this point - early doors I thought straight up deleting these was super helpful...Gary disagreed. The Crypt Flayers in cover tanked the Brutes very well, with a great save and that god awful Battle Trait! On my left it faired less well, the Ardboyz and Gruntas did very little, but fortunately didn't suffer too badly in return. I ended up scoring 3 this turn and at this point was considering whether I should've just committed vs one unit of Ghouls initially. However in retrospect, if I had done this, Gary could've pushed the other Ghouls onwards (remember once you've "tagged" the objective you can move away) meaning I would've been fighting him further away from the objective, so I do think it was the right call.

Gary won an incredibly vital T2 priority roll. I think had I got this I could've used my momentum from T1 to really get on the front foot. However, it wasn't to be. Gary had a good Hero Phase, using the Damned buffs again and put up all the spells and abilities he needed (don't ask me to list them, I couldn't keep track of all the bloody rerolls!), along with a sweet conga line on the Crypt Horrors to get them challenging the objective in my deployment zone (I even let him have a couple of takebacks...I wouldn't usually mention it, but I know he'll be reading and we like to give each other s**t haha!! :P). The combat phase was horrendous. The Crypt Horrors got into 5 Brutes guarding my objective however didn't really do much. My large Brute unit completely whiffed their attacks (causing me to switch up dice sets and bring out the big guns - TBS pinks! Gamey!! ;)) and Gary's Ghouls (sounds like a kids book) deleted both the Ardboyz and the Gore-gruntas in a disgusting display of combo reroll goodness. Was horrible!!

At this point, we were basically playing battle for the pass with each of us strongly dominating one end of the board and a big mash up in the centre. The downside for me was that I was behind on VPs.

Over the next couple of turns a combination of s**t dice (I really hate blaming dice, but 5/7 1's on wound rolls for Brutes is s**T!) and 5 ups from that bent Death Battle Trait saw the middle of the table remain clogged up - those Crypt Flayers would not die. In hindsight Gary thinks he should've retreated them, but I'm not sure, they took so much attention. If they weren't there the 10 Brutes could've handily dealt with the Crypt Horrors. The Zombie Spider took a lot more effort to kill than it should've (see above excuses), the Brutes went to town on it, however it did still somehow require Megaboss Krunk to deliver the killing blow (which was nice as it gave him 7 attacks going forward, hitting and wounding on 2's thanks to his can of Crunk Juce!). The Cabbage was able to get into the Haunter Courtier and pounded on him, giving me the objective in Gary's zone, allowing me to really pull it back. Gary did actually forget his Carstein Ring here (only realising in a text convo later last night), which is a bit of a shame as it would've meant he could've teleported upon revival and challenged another objective.

Gary threw his second unit of Ghouls, which by now had lost some buffs, into the centre only to be welcomed by a few remaining Brutes and Megaboss Krunk. Despite Krunk's best efforts to roll 1's, 7 attacks 2/2/-1/2 (then his fist) still really hurt the Ghouls and they were seen off without much trouble. We both agreed in hindsight he should've held these Ghouls back a bit.

The Cabbage then went flying forward, charging a Ghoul King, Varghulf and Ghast Courtier. I had to split my attacks as killing the King and Courtier would've seen me claim the second central objective. Really annoyingly they both survived on one wound. Over a couple of combat phases the Varghulf went mental and pretty much solo'd the Cabbage! At this stage it was starting to look good though, I was winning the war of attrition, calling a Waaaagh in one Hero Phase to really put some hurt on the Horrors and finally finishing off the Flayers. I even had thrown my Weirdnob and Warchanter into the Crypt Horrors to help out - the Shaman actually put in a right shift!

At the end of Gary's 5th turn, the score was 23-22 in my favour and I still had a turn left to play, in which I would've scored a minimum of 6. We called it there. So.....

Result - Major Victory

What a game!! Result aside (although, no denying, it was great to finally get a win over Gary - first in AoS!) this was one of my favourite Warhammer games in ages. Me and Gary always have a great game, full of banter and nonsense, and our armies seemed to prove quite an even match up in this one. The Battleplan is really good and despite my reservations on number of models claiming, it didn't seem an issue at all in this one. The game genuinely could've gone either way and it was great to see the Flesh-eaters being played "properly".

Apologies the report tailed off a bit towards the end, but hopefully you'll get a picture of the battle (I will add some literal pictures eventually!!).

As always, thanks for reading. I'm really enjoying the army and can't wait to play more! Hopefully my next big update will be some painting progress though. Depends how drunk/hungover I am this weekend :S

Chris

Edited by Chris Tomlin
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I believe that's because the horrors or flayers (whichever one that is a courtier of) become battleline only if he's the general, which I thought was kind of silly considering if you're running pure FEC you'd want a ghoul king at the top. Thanks for the bat rep!

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39 minutes ago, Nico said:

I'd much rather keep the all important ward save buff on the 14 wound monstrosity and take a few more Ghouls. 

I think this was actually factored into how @The Lost Lighthouse (Gary) wanted to play his army. The Haunter Courtier was used much more defensively whilst the Dragon could go marauding without it's loss impacting negatively on the rest of the army.

I've been doing a similar sort of thing with my army tbh. The Megaboss on foot is my General, leaving the Cabbage to go off doing Cabbagey things*. I'm not entirely sure this is the best way to play it, I guess more games will be telling.

I'm also increasingly finding the Weirdnob less and less effective/important. I've considered another Warchanter instead. This would leave me 40pts under - enough to often get me a roll on the Triumph table. Any thoughts on that anyone?

*Cabbagey things include mostly dying and the occasional #cabbagestomp

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I've not seen any leaks of the Triumph Table (I gather it's not the one in the regular rules). I suspect 1980 will be the sweet spot (or 1990 if you fit in a 30 point fanatic) as you'll gain a significant buff for 20 points against some players. 

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Yeah - that does make a lot of sense against Ironjawz, as a hero at the back is safe as can be with Ironjawz' near total lack of shooting. I think it depends on what the Command Trait is, if it's a passive one that doesn't require proximity (like the death one here), then great. If you're going for an aggressive buff to the hero, then obviously the big flappy. It's a nice tactical choice you can make for each game when you see your opponent. Here you're not losing much as the GkoZD's buff is his spell, rather than his Command Ability (which is summoning).

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25 minutes ago, Nico said:

I've not seen any leaks of the Triumph Table (I gather it's not the one in the regular rules). I suspect 1980 will be the sweet spot (or 1990 if you fit in a 30 point fanatic) as you'll gain a significant buff for 20 points against some players. 

It's a D3 table, the 3 buffs are a one use reroll on hits/wounds/saves for a unit. Quite nice.

20 minutes ago, Nico said:

Yeah - that does make a lot of sense against Ironjawz, as a hero at the back is safe as can be with Ironjawz' near total lack of shooting. I think it depends on what the Command Trait is, if it's a passive one that doesn't require proximity (like the death one here), then great. If you're going for an aggressive buff to the hero, then obviously the big flappy. It's a nice tactical choice you can make for each game when you see your opponent. Here you're not losing much as the GkoZD's buff is his spell, rather than his Command Ability (which is summoning).

Yeh as you say, its nice to have the flexibility. My concern is the some tournaments will enforce a fixed list with things like this listed and applicable to all games.

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Thanks. So a one use reroll for a turn or a battleround? That could be massive.

Yeah if it's fixed in your list, then it would immediate ruin all the buffs and artefacts which are anti-Chaos or anti-Order for example as they would be irrelevant 3/4 of the time.

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