Where do I go next?

[SirCelus]

Hullo everybody, 

I'm new to AoS and I'm having a hard time deciding on my first lists.  FYI I haven't had a single battle yet.  I'm wondering what to first add to my armies (night goblins and dispossessed) to make them stronger. 

My entry into the hobby was finally motivated by  the gifting of two full old school Battle  for Skull Pass starter sets from a friend. I've studied the units applicable war scrolls and I've  purchased recent generals handbook. Now I haven't played any games as I've been busy stripping models from a horrendous paint job, and I've purchased  200 round bases to switch over to next before any battles happen. Suffice to say I have a couple months of hobbying  to purchase  some units. 

As of right now from those two sets I have:

80 night goblins with spears and shields

40  with bows

2 bosses

2 shaman

20 spider riders

2 troggoths (min squad size is 3 so...)

24 Duardin warriors

16 miners (warriors with two handed weapons ?)

20 thunderers

2 warden kings 

2 unforged

and 2 cannons with crew. 

[NazbitWeirdstabba]

When it comes to Moonclan, I can't recommend Mangler Squigs enough. If you manage to get them into an enemy unit and get a good bunch of attacks in first, it can deal some serious damage. 

[Sheriff]

11 minutes ago, NazbitWeirdstabba said:

When it comes to Moonclan, I can't recommend Mangler Squigs enough. If you manage to get them into an enemy unit and get a good bunch of attacks in first, it can deal some serious damage. 

Manglers are great for some match ups, but easily shot before they can do lots of damage. 

Trolls are kind of pointless unless there are 3... so try and buy 1 on ebay? Otherwise throw in the trash. 

The 60 spears are a solid dependable unit. The 40 bows could be split into 2x20 to meet your minimum 3 battle line requirement. The 20s are useful for running / fleeing, grabbing objectives, or being a fanatic launchpad. 

A boss and 2 shaman is a solid investment. I personally prefer a non-moonclan general, e.g. the spiderfang hero as they are more tanky.  Get good at hiding the moonclan general from sight and you'll be fine. 

Spider riders look so great but they are not reliable tbh... even if you have spiderfang general and arachnaroks buffing them (hard to get many into combat), and they get shot at and flee. Pretty good with Bellowing Tyrant on them, in small units of 5, for being a nuisance and grabbing objectives. 

In your position I would start with this:

• Bigboss general
• 2 shamans
• 60 spears
• 20 bows
• 20 bows

and then adding in the key things it is missing: something tanky, something shooty, something killy (high rend/mortal wounding). 

Tanky options:

• 40/60 more grots (the painting though...)
• arachnarok (basically ticks all boxes: tanky, killy, spells)
• 3/6 trolls (they need Bellowing Tyrant to be reliable / not battleshock, and try to guard with netters)

Shooty options:

• not more bows - they suck, sadly
• gitmob bows + gitmob shaman - deadly combo (but lots of painting...)
• gitmob artillery (4 of anything, just make sure you pick at least 2 of whichever you like the most)
• Squig gobba (short range but reliable in turn 2 onwards once in range, sit on damned terrain, or charge in and bite things for added value)

Something killy:

• More grots, the sword/club ones are good for throwing the moonclan command ability on. 40 seems a good number for them. Synergises with your general
• Mangler - deadly if you manage to attack before it gets hurt, but a smart enemy can easily shoot it first so that it's damage output is much lower
• Spider riders, but only if buffed by arachnarok and/or spiderfang general
• Cave squigs - battleline for moonclan, so you could merge your bows into 1 blob of 40,  and use squigs as the 3rd battleline unit. deadly but easily shot at before they attack
• Fanatics - the only option that the enemy cannot shoot at before you get the chance to use them. Also very defensive when used to block enemy charges (an important part of the tactical toolbox you have). better of taking 2 units if you want to intercept charges, as you can then at least attack with one of them (the enemy will kill the first unit)

So plenty of (fun) options. Personally i go very shooty and defensive, but others have success with very offensive options. My only advice is to pick one style and not try and do both. The safest bet is probably fanatics. The easiest options in terms of limiting the painting are probably fanatics plus artillery (or squigs). 

 

Hope that helps, and welcome to the 'clan!

 

[Twitch of Izalith]

I wouldn't really recommend investing money into an army without a battletome - for a new player. It does depend who you will be playing and what your overall experience is with wargaming but if you are playing pick up games at your local store or club you may find that both of those armies feel a little "outclassed" by the opposition.

If you are mostly interested in narrative games or you are playing with friends who can adjust their own lists to make up for you using a less developed army ruleswise then its probably all good.

I'm not saying there is no way to make a moonclan or dispossessed army reasonably competitive for casual games but I am saying its possibly not the best course for a new player. Ironjaws or Fyreslayers would be a much better choice and you can use your gobbos and dwarfs as allies.

This is probably not the advice you wanted but it may save you some frustration once you start playing games. If you are not at all bothered about results and just love the models you have then just carry on with that theme - just add models you like and enjoy the hobby side. The Hobby always wins.

 

[TheOtherJosh]

4 hours ago, SirCelus said:

Hullo everybody, 

I'm new to AoS and I'm having a hard time deciding on my first lists.  FYI I haven't had a single battle yet.  I'm wondering what to first add to my armies (night goblins and dispossessed) to make them stronger. 

My entry into the hobby was finally motivated by  the gifting of two full old school Battle  for Skull Pass starter sets from a friend. I've studied the units applicable war scrolls and I've  purchased recent generals handbook. Now I haven't played any games as I've been busy stripping models from a horrendous paint job, and I've purchased  200 round bases to switch over to next before any battles happen. Suffice to say I have a couple months of hobbying  to purchase  some units. 

As of right now from those two sets I have:

80 night goblins with spears and shields

40  with bows

2 bosses

2 shaman

20 spider riders

2 troggoths (min squad size is 3 so...)

Round 25mm bases (If you’re running them at any tournaments that have that requirement.) edit: But they are absolutely not required to play.

At GW locations ... it’s a non-issue. Those are the bases they came with. And the Goblins in squares are on 20mm squares ... so 2 ranks for 1” weapon, and 3 ranks for 2” 

Neither of the units currently has a Battletome ... it isn’t a serious issue, unless you’re aiming for tournaments.

However the Malign Portents Herald is a Moonclan Cave Shaman ... so ... there is that. And the order Herald gives bonuses to Artillery (which covers the dwarves.)

Quasi-low priority: 1 more troll (you can run one unit that is both under strength and under minimum size.)

Fanatics. While they got a nerf in their deployment ... they’re still scary.

Goblin Netters (you probably want to do some conversions ... as they’re expensive)

Mangler Squigs (a base has two chained together on a single base.) (At least one base.)

Squigs (I’ve seen some excellent conversions with Pink Horrors without arms) (If they run away they do damage ... if they don’t run away they do damage ... WIN!)

Doom Diver ... not directly A Moonclan unit ... but they’re awesomely fun. And can hit units accross the battlefield.

(I’m not as big a fan of the Dwarves... but the ignore spells rule they have... it’s not bad. The dwarves could also be converted to run as Kharadron Overlords ... I’m sure there are some conversions around the board...)

[Mandano]

1 hour ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

I wouldn't really recommend investing money into an army without a battletome

Telling a new player that just got 200+ models that you 'wouldn't recommend those armies' isn't super helpful. I don't want to be rude, but I have seen this said a couple times recently and I know that would have soured my initial experience. From the other posts it sounds like there is potential to have fun. 

[AthlorianStoners]

WELCOME TO THE HOBBY!  @SirCelus Two cool armies to have and you have a solid base to move around and decide how you want to play. 

So first things first, you’re going to have to decide a few things. 

1) Which army will be your priority. 

Not a huge deal as you can run both, but for now I’d recommend focusing on one, then when you bring that up to speed focus on the other. 

2) Which allegiance will you run. 

Now, let’s say you hypothetically decide to focus on the Moonclan. You will now have to decide which allegiance they will be, either Generic Destruction or Moonclan Allegiance. Both of these options present interesting tactical choices. 

3) How will you paint them?

I find it good to work out a paint scheme and get started on that before you buy any more models. This avoids getting stuck with a large amount of backlog that can prove difficult to overcome. 

Once you’ve decided on all of that, we’re good to go! 

In terms of lists, we can work out something there as well. 

Now i’m a firm believer in using what you have first, as chasing the meta is especially difficult at the start, and as you’ll be learning you want a good mix of unit strength and play style. To that end, let’s work on the lists, attempting to maximise usage of what you have. 

Moonclan

Moonclan don’t have allegiance abilities for themselves yet, but are heavily rumoured to be the next release so keep that in mind. 

If you want to keep the Moonclan theme, I’d recommend these units: 

1) Fungoid Cave-Shaman. The factions newest release, a very cool model with fun rules. 

2) Squigs. These are really a key part of the flavour of the army and are good fun. As some have said, modding Horros is a cheap alternative and allows you to work with plastic, not resin. 

3) Fanatics. Just a blast to play, but expensive. Customising your own should be an option as it will save you a lot of trouble. 

A centrepiece model, something you can get really creative with and be proud is something I’d also recommend. Whether that’s a Mangler Squig or another Allied destruction unit, anything would be cool.

Unsure if you’re familiar with Warscroll builder but it’s a great tool to help list building. Here’s a screen grab of what you’re current units look like: 

Duardin

Now this is a bit more tricky, as you can choose either Order or Dispossessed allegiance. I’d recommend going the Dispossessed route myself. 

Personally I would use the miners as more warriors and mix them up so they look smoother as a unit but that’s a personal thing.

At 2000 points, the cannons will be allies so you can retain the Dispossessed allegiance. They will take up most of your 400 point limit but that’s ok.

Now you have 700 points to fill. I’d recommend the following: 

1) Ironbreakers/Irondrakes. A really really cool kit and it looks awesome. Either build will help you, just depends on your preference for range or melee.

2) Runelord. A must have, and i’d even recommend getting 2.

3) Hammerers/Longbeards. Another awesome looking unit but a more limited in what it can do that the drakes/breakers.

Heres your points for this army currently: 

When I started I looked at 1d4chan a lot. While not the be all/end all, it’s a great resource for players starting out.

overall I would say pick things that look cool, have a cool story/idea for your army and have fun!

[SirCelus]

Wow great feedback everyone.  You've given me a lot to consider. I agree I should probably pick one army to focus on. I am leaning toward night goblins. I like the touch of humour in the range; I looked at that mangler squig and I love how goblin handlers are flailing around on the squigs.  

I'm thinkin of putting together 1000pts of both armies and finding someone who doesn't mind facing  unpainted forces, just to get a feel for them. 

I understand both armies aren't the best, but I'm just looking to have fun.  In my 40k gaming I remind myself that while the objective of the game is to win, the point of playing the game is to have fun.  

I saw an undead army rebased on round bases and I really like the overall look. But I never considered  a possible advantage to keeping them on square ones... Hmmm like I said a lot to consider! 

[Lucio]

Personally I wouldn't advise a new player to even think about points. You've got a lot of models there so instead think about what you think looks like a cool model to use or collect next.

Your comments about finding the squig handlers and mangler squigs funny is a great sign to make those your next purchases!

 

Beyond that, try painting a couple of the heroes to get a feel for colours and surfaces, and to make sure that you're happy to paint a load. Moonclan have an advantage that a lot of the miniature is a solid black colour, if you're painting quickly simple spray black, paint detail and apply a dark greybrush makes for a huge timesaver

[TheOtherJosh]

42 minutes ago, Lucio said:

Moonclan have an advantage that a lot of the miniature is a solid black colour,

... they don’t have to have black robes ... mine are purple...

[Twitch of Izalith]

On 19/03/2018 at 2:55 PM, Mandano said:

Telling a new player that just got 200+ models that you 'wouldn't recommend those armies' isn't super helpful. I don't want to be rude, but I have seen this said a couple times recently and I know that would have soured my initial experience. From the other posts it sounds like there is potential to have fun. 

It wasn't my intention to be negative at all - sorry @SirCelus if it came across that way!!! I had hoped that I made it clear I was talking about a very specific circumstance (if you were interested in tournaments or competitive play) and that it was perfectly possible to have some great games with almost any collection of models if the competitive stuff wasn't your primary objective.

Seems like you didn't take it badly yourself anyway but I still wanted to apologise for any confusion given that some other members thought it was a bit out of order  

 

[TheOtherJosh]

As a side note ... Moonclan did really well in one of the major tournaments with loads of Squigs ... it was glorious! I believe it was the Warhammer GT Heat 3 around 2017? So... tournaments aren’t entirely out of possibility even with Moonclan and no battletome.

There was article on making a Grot Army on Spikey Bits around that time:

Take a peek here:

https://spikeybits.com/2017/07/aos-first-1000-moonclan-grots.html

Their recommendations are pretty much in line with the units you have. (We both would need to get more fanatics ...)