Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

[Drofnum]

1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

 Against what feels like common sense. It's actualy worth while to bring the fast eels into combat via the soul scryer. As the Eels can reroll thier charge distance, making that 6" charge more reliable than thier namarti brothers.  Only thing to worry about here is your ishlaen guard will be with out buffs and  thus will only be +4 ignoring rend on turn 2. 

Anywho for those interested this is my list after some play testing with thralls and proxy eels:
Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin - Enclave: Dhom-Hain
Leaders
Akhelian King (240) - General - Command Trait : Unstoppable Fury - Artefact : Potion of Hateful Frenzy
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440) - Lore of the Deeps : Abyssal Darkness
Isharann Tidecaster (100) - Lore of the Deeps : Arcane Corrasion
Isharann Tidecaster (100) - Lore of the Deeps : Steed of Tides
Units
9 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (420)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
9 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (480)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80) - Allies
 

This is pretty close to what I wanted to take except a soulscryer instead of one of the tidecasters and split up the Morrsarr so I have 1 group of them to bring on the board edge.  I may have had 1 less Ishlaen and 1 more unit of Morrsarr if i remember right.  I need to get some testing in to see how it would run but there arent a ton of competitive armies in my local group.

 

I think the Scryer+Morrsarr could serve a similar role to the heartrenders but obviously a bit more limited in where they can appear.

[Cam3lot]

So I've got a theoretical list I wouldn't mind getting some opinions on. Not set on command traits and artefacts yet but the tidecaster will be the general to make the reavers Battleline. The soulscryer will likely be held in reserve along with the moorsar and potentially the thralls to form a bit of a hammer. Like I said advice and suggestions are more than welcome.

Eidolon of Mathlaan, Aspect of the Sea 

Tidecaster

Soulscryer

30x Thralls

10x Reavers

10x Reavers

6x Moorsar 

6x Ishlaen

Comes in at 1880, so I'm a bit stuck for what to spend the last 120 points on, is there's an ally unit anyone could recommend that could supplement the army well? 

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

the 9 man ishlaen guard unit kills that 30 man witch squad if they have martyr's on or not, and lives with like 5+ ishlaen guard.  When we tested we re did  key combats like that in the middle of the game. So like we had him roll his attacks 3 or 4 times to see how many ishlaen guard he kills and the opposite with my ishlaen guard fighitngg into his witches, and rolling the mortal wounds extra really doesn't kill enough stuff. While the ishlaen guard lay  into the witch elves. sooo <.<....  Morathi is a problem, but it's more a problem to be ignored i felt??  and having won both of the games on points pretty confidently. It felt quite good about that match up. At -1 and -2 to hit the Daughters really lack teeth. 
 

This seems like a poor comparison.  9 Ishlaen guard plus a spell for-1 to hit is a 500+  point investment while 30 witches with witch brew and martyr's sacrifice is a 330 point investment.

[DantePQ]

Yep and 6 Ishalean with spell  vs 30 Witches with Bucklers, Sacrifice and Witchbrew are toasted , Also I don't know how you could ignore Morathi in small form she will blast spell after spell without chance to unbind and in big form she has 14'' fly move so she will just dominate objectives (not to mention Duality) , HaggNarr Slaughter Queen also looks like Nightmare for ID. 

[Connelj2]

56 minutes ago, Cam3lot said:

So I've got a theoretical list I wouldn't mind getting some opinions on. Not set on command traits and artefacts yet but the tidecaster will be the general to make the reavers Battleline. The soulscryer will likely be held in reserve along with the moorsar and potentially the thralls to form a bit of a hammer. Like I said advice and suggestions are more than welcome.

Eidolon of Mathlaan, Aspect of the Sea 

Tidecaster

Soulscryer

30x Thralls

10x Reavers

10x Reavers

6x Moorsar 

6x Ishlaen

Comes in at 1880, so I'm a bit stuck for what to spend the last 120 points on, is there's an ally unit anyone could recommend that could supplement the army well? 

I have the same list, I added a soul reaver and took the morhaann enclave to add back in extra thralls

[Cam3lot]

Just now, Connelj2 said:

I have the same list, I added a soul reaver and took the morhaann enclave to add back in extra thralls

Yeah I haven't put too much thought into the enclave yet, I suppose that may also depend on what I spend the last 120 on. Like if it's an ally unit that could benefit well from tides of death maybe I could run Ionrach, if not maybe the one where I treat Ebb Tide as flood tide, which when reversed by the tidecaster will give me turn 1 flood tide.

[Namiriel]

Has anyone run Morphan Thrall spam yet? I've seen a few lists here and there which use the Enclave, but it's generally 1 Reaper. I'm curious if anyone else has tried out 3+ Reapers, or has thoughts on their signature spell. Just reading it, it seems lackluster and honestly having to take it is pretty unappealing, especially if you want an Eidolon. 

[scrollbuilderdude]

2 hours ago, Cam3lot said:

So I've got a theoretical list I wouldn't mind getting some opinions on. Not set on command traits and artefacts yet but the tidecaster will be the general to make the reavers Battleline. The soulscryer will likely be held in reserve along with the moorsar and potentially the thralls to form a bit of a hammer. Like I said advice and suggestions are more than welcome.

Eidolon of Mathlaan, Aspect of the Sea 

Tidecaster

Soulscryer

30x Thralls

10x Reavers

10x Reavers

6x Moorsar 

6x Ishlaen

Comes in at 1880, so I'm a bit stuck for what to spend the last 120 points on, is there's an ally unit anyone could recommend that could supplement the army well? 

Unit of heartrenders and... a black ark fleetmaster?

[mmimzie]

2 hours ago, Richelieu said:

This seems like a poor comparison.  9 Ishlaen guard plus a spell for-1 to hit is a 500+  point investment while 30 witches with witch brew and martyr's sacrifice is a 330 point investment.

And your totally right, but that's the match up. That's what the daughter of khaine player has to lay into.  That's the but they have to sit there and crack that nut. 

Your locked in behind a wall of side ways cab bases, and if you really want to protect said wall you can put ypur morrsarr guard right behind them and let them poke over with 2" range, and potentially protect with thier mortal wound discharge. 

 

With anti flying ritual that can't be denied your sort pf stuck with dealing with that particular issue out side of potentially any heartrenders one my try to drop in behind, which may or may not get to attack something else. 

 

Then from there <. < after the fact after the clash. You still have your -1 to hit skills availbe to gang what ever concerns you. 

 

Edit: your ability to get around get further bottle necked when you have two 12" boats walking off the table, and your army can't fly threw it. 

[whispersofblood]

Yeah I'm also having some issues getting a list together. I really think you won't be able to do a "balanced" approach with this army. I have gotten close, but then have been left with 120 pts which you can't really do much besides characters or 5 heartrenders.

I like the King  a lot, he is actually very strong in combat, but I then feel you are building around eels since, being able to do between 5 and 10  wounds in phases before combat has always seem the best practice, but reavers not battleline don't seem great. I don't think extreme builds tend to last long in the current configuration of the game so would like to avoid a thrall spam list, especially because the visual is boring, but I do think 30 thralls are useful in a board control sense, especially denying armies the ability to just spread out and block off objectives. 30 Thralls have wipe potential. 

[Luke1705]

Which list do you guys think is best?

 

Sea

Big V

12 Stabby Eels

6 Shieldy Eels

6 Shieldy Eels

10 Eternal Guard

 

OR

 

Sea

Sea

Big V

9 Stabby Eels

3 Shieldy Eels

3 Shieldy Eels

10 Eternal Guard

 

Trying to find a way to squeeze 10 more Eternal Guard into either list.

[valenswift]

13 hours ago, Hoseman said:

I dont decide on enclaves yet, have to study more but the army I wanna make contains the allopex as I play with friends and dont need the more competitive list, and because of allopex is one of the most beautiful unit maybe in all AoS for me (Alarielle and eidolon are first), sadly the horrible eels are better (I really dont see anything beautiful in that model). Said that I would love to have an Idoneth competitive list but seems like that list is focused on thralls and I wanted more a monster army.

So my list will go with AoSea, King, soulrender, tidecaster, 20 thralls, 10 reavers, allopex and rest both kind of Eels. I discard allys because I love the look of this army.

 The thing I dont know jet is if Volturnos or King. Neither the enclave, maybe that one focusing on thralls or the other on charge for eels... 

I also play with friends so don't have to worry about being 'competitive'. I wanted this army for the fantastic sea creature models somy list will be made up of the models i really like. I don't mind the thralls at all but no way I'm buying 90 of them and not including the beautiful Leviadon and Allopex miniatures 

[Praecautus]

52 minutes ago, valenswift said:

I also play with friends so don't have to worry about being 'competitive'. I wanted this army for the fantastic sea creature models somy list will be made up of the models i really like. I don't mind the thralls at all but no way I'm buying 90 of them and not including the beautiful Leviadon and Allopex miniatures 

I am another one who is getting this army for rule of cool and for a fun list. My other army is Khorne so really don't fancy Thrall spam when I have a horde and there are some big cool models.

Just got my battletome and torn between a monster list or surf and turf with some sylvaneth.

[syph0n]

4 hours ago, valenswift said:

I also play with friends so don't have to worry about being 'competitive'. I wanted this army for the fantastic sea creature models somy list will be made up of the models i really like. I don't mind the thralls at all but no way I'm buying 90 of them and not including the beautiful Leviadon and Allopex miniatures 

The Thralls are very, very cool looking models but I'm so slow at painting (or rather, I paint in dribs and drabs) that really an eel army suits, but heavily supported by big point models like the Leviadon (my favourite model full stop) and the Eidolon to reduce model count...

3 hours ago, Praecautus said:

I am another one who is getting this army for rule of cool and for a fun list. My other army is Khorne so really don't fancy Thrall spam when I have a horde and there are some big cool models.

Just got my battletome and torn between a monster list or surf and turf with some sylvaneth.

... so monster list seems cool. Even thought about allying in a Kharybdyss and some Corsairs for a proper nautical theme, but to be honest, the Idoneth just seem to look better on their own. 

I think I'll end up buying something of everything, then decide on what I enjoy most and go from there. Really can't shake the feeling of a Morphann Thrall list though... Just seems so cool. 

 

[Sactownbri]

Okay, I’ve noodled through my all Cav army. Give me the models already GW!

Fuethan enclave Battlehost

Volturnas

King - Armor comes Cynthai

6 Morrsarr x2

6 Ishlaen

4 Allopex

[Kugane]

Are the eidolons a must have for the army? I personally love the reaver and thrall models as well as the king/volt. Kind of wondering to build a list around those.

[Barkanaut]

5 minutes ago, Kugane said:

Are the eidolons a must have for the army? I personally love the reaver and thrall models as well as the king/volt. Kind of wondering to build a list around those.

I think it’s possible to do thrall spam or elite akhelian armies without them. 

[Austin]

4 minutes ago, Kugane said:

Are the eidolons a must have for the army? I personally love the reaver and thrall models as well as the king/volt. Kind of wondering to build a list around those.

I don't know if there are any MUST haves so far.  The Aspect of the Sea looks amazing though.  I had a list a few pages back that might be decent, and has the models you are talking about.  I think it you want to bring high numbers of expensive troops, the cost of an Akhelian King is much more palatable than the eidolons.

[FatherTurin]

8 hours ago, Praecautus said:

 

Just got my battletome and torn between a monster list or surf and turf with some sylvaneth.

Well, now mixing Idoneth and Sylvaneth is forever going to be called surf and turf in my head.

[mmimzie]

I think one could run with out the asepct of the sea. I've been considering similar.  The only problem is that it help you in a few key areas.

For one, that bravery buff is pretty good, and as such you'd want to take a generic general with the bravery command trait to make up for it.  Also the bravery buff helps against stuff like mindrazor or death anti bravery mechanic. 

The aspect of the sea is our army wide best bet at anti mortal wound protection. For one he can unbind twice which is quite pleasant. More importantly though he gives -1 to hit, which most sources out side of spells rely on to do mortal wounds. We do have several other -1 to hit mechanics that we can access, some of which with longer range, and a tide caster on a bale wind could get you there for less than half the price, but also ahve the unbinds. 

All the said the thing is a sizable chunk of your army quite quickly taken up.

[Kugane]

4 hours ago, Barkanaut said:

I think it’s possible to do thrall spam or elite akhelian armies without them. 

Thank you for the feedback!

4 hours ago, Caladancid said:

I don't know if there are any MUST haves so far.  The Aspect of the Sea looks amazing though.  I had a list a few pages back that might be decent, and has the models you are talking about.  I think it you want to bring high numbers of expensive troops, the cost of an Akhelian King is much more palatable than the eidolons.

I see :), thank you for the feedback. I will go search for it^^

[whispersofblood]

The more I write the more certain I am that Fuethan is a top 2 enclave. Affects all the models in you army, flat bonus for your mounts, I'd say it even makes the allopex worth consideration. No forced spell for your Tidecaster.

I do think the Eidolon is a more difficult take then was first assumed, his price point is very high. IF he doesn't influence every game, then I feel like you are going to want more ordinary combat and a second Tidecaster. I feel like it is a very technical piece in the army.

[DantePQ]

Problem with Eidolon is that he is very passive, you can't do much combat with him - and he is far from tanky. If you want double -1 to hit his spells are 12'' so :

a) he must be postioned somewhere near your enemy and you units to boost their bravery 

b) there is good chance that enemy has some options to unbid his spell/spells (sure he can still re-roll )

Also his damage output is average and you got to use artifact on him so it's whole lot of points used basically to buff bravery and debuff hits. 

That's why I'm looking more and more at Volturnos :

Volturnos - General 

Tidecaster + Tide of Fear + Sands of Infinity 

Tidecaster + Abyssal Darkness 

SoulScrye 

2x30 Thralls 

2x6 Ishlean Guards 

10 Reavers

For Enclave I'm thinking Briomdar (or Ionarch(, game plan is easy -  with SoulScrye and Briomdar ability Thralls are ultra mobile, shield units with eells, 3rd turn (or 2nd thanks to Tidecaster ability) with Volturnos ability will be huge ,Reavers are to guard objectives - as they are not that bad with 2A each in melee and a lot of shooting attacks at close range. I can still cast two -1 to hit spells and have a lot of bodies. With 3 leaders to cast Rituals it's also nice bonus to have. Also 141 wounds is great number.

Volturnos is obviously great here - he will harrass weaker enemy units, play a part in Duality and boost Bravery and give nice re-rolls of 1 to hit, also two Ship Vortexes are nice to get some extra protection.  

[whispersofblood]

I was considering giving the Eidolon Cloud of Midnight over sands of infinity myself. Knowing you can be immune to dmg on the final turn on an objective seems strong to me, especially if you already have a 2nd -1 to hit spell on a tidecaster. 

But I am willing to accept that the most competitive build may not include either Eidolon.

[Amradiel]

39 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Problem with Eidolon is that he is very passive, you can't do much combat with him - and he is far from tanky. If you want double -1 to hit his spells are 12'' so :

a) he must be postioned somewhere near your enemy and you units to boost their bravery 

b) there is good chance that enemy has some options to unbid his spell/spells (sure he can still re-roll )

Also his damage output is average and you got to use artifact on him so it's whole lot of points used basically to buff bravery and debuff hits. 

That's why I'm looking more and more at Volturnos :

Volturnos - General 

Tidecaster + Tide of Fear + Sands of Infinity 

Tidecaster + Abyssal Darkness 

SoulScrye 

2x30 Thralls 

2x6 Ishlean Guards 

10 Reavers

For Enclave I'm thinking Briomdar (or Ionarch(, game plan is easy -  with SoulScrye and Briomdar ability Thralls are ultra mobile, shield units with eells, 3rd turn (or 2nd thanks to Tidecaster ability) with Volturnos ability will be huge ,Reavers are to guard objectives - as they are not that bad with 2A each in melee and a lot of shooting attacks at close range. I can still cast two -1 to hit spells and have a lot of bodies. With 3 leaders to cast Rituals it's also nice bonus to have. Also 141 wounds is great number.

Volturnos is obviously great here - he will harrass weaker enemy units, play a part in Duality and boost Bravery and give nice re-rolls of 1 to hit, also two Ship Vortexes are nice to get some extra protection.  

This looks a lot like the list I was thinking about before I read the battletome. Just based on models. Considered Eels as battleline