Major Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 With the new book we know there is heaps of new avenues open to us and there have been huge changes to how we build lists and play games. But what tier do we now sit Death in? I have been tossing up list after list after list but hitting the sweet spot and looking at a list that gives you that feeling of "yup, the one'll be in top 10s" just has not happened yet and not from lack of want nor trying. So what does competitive death look like now? Can we expect it to bring down the top 3 faction/armies a peg or 2 and even the playing field a bit more or is death destined to rise slightly and fade into pile of upper-middle to middle tier bracket with so many other armies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themortalgod Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I think we are certainly more powerful than before I think that we will still be a step behind the absolute top tier lists. Which is fine by me, I'd rather be an 8/10 than a 10/10 in terms of power. because then the army is more fun in casual, which is where I spend all my time. I remember the days of fantasy where Vamp Counts were considered so strong that it was offensive to put the army on the table in a casual setting. I sort of feel that way now with my Tzeentch. I adore this new book because it has a ton of really thematic and interesting ways to play death that are all totally viable in most games. Unfortunately, though, at a competitive level, I feel like our lack of ranged threat coupled with heavy dependence on heroes that can be easily sniped will keep most death lists off top tables. That said, there are so many different ways of playing this new book I won't be surprised at all if someone finds a really powerful combo or two that can bring death to the top tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtyn Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I think death can push into top 10. One of its biggest strengths is variety, each legion can create a solid list which provides altering playtyles that would make it hard for opponents to plan for. Also most death lists can be built so that you aren't hinging on one hero or monster, you can create multiple threats that the opponent will then have to make a choice in regards to what they wish to negate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 From the couple of games I've played, I share @themortalgod's thought that we're roughly an 8 out of ten (though possibly a 7 in some cases). We've a bit of flexibility in the way of summoning deployment, combined with some fairly solid units. We're hampered by a fairly high reliance on heroes, which in the current climate can be easily sniped out. However it's a reliance rather than dependence so our armies won't fall apart if all our characters die (though will be weakened). Damage at range is also a bit of an issue outside of magic/artefacts, although our magic game is very powerful (see comment about reliance on heroes). I think where we'll struggle the most is against ranged armies that are durable - ranged armies that are fragile we've a few tricks to get up close and pound away at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Tell me your weaknesses, you boney old spooks. Should I shoot your little heros or shoot your mortarch/nagash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towenaar Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I think Legions of the Sacrament is going to be a strong contender. They have some key artifacts for protecting heroes from ranged abilities, and the number of mortal wounds some characters can deal can be insane. Soul harvest Arkhan with a mortis engine, coven throne with amaranthine orb is going to hurt anything and they have the mobility and range to get where they need to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 42 minutes ago, Sheriff said: Tell me your weaknesses, you boney old spooks. I'm partial to a nice jam donut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Sheriff said: Should I shoot your little heros or shoot your mortarch/nagash? Depends on fow much shooting you have. Shoot the heroes/units you have a decent chance of wiping in a single round of fire. If Nagash is on the table, though, kill him as hard and fast as you can, even if it takes more than one round. He'll take a shocking amount of effort to drop, but keep in mind that he's 800+ points. If you're up against him in any standard game size, he's not there to support the death army, he IS the death army. Though if he's in a first cohort battalion, and he probably is, it might be better to kill his morghast bodyguard first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krieger Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Well in a 14 person tournament where one Death player usually does well we just had Death take 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Even Tzeentch never pulled this off. I honestly think that giving Death +3 to cast and +3 to unbind for Arkhan and Nagash is VERY VERY BAD for the competitive scene. This creates way to many games where Death is almost guaranteed to get every buff or debuff off while simultaneously removing the possibility of your opponent getting off a single spell. Because of limited spell range and Arkhan/Nagash being able to fly while still being extremely durable, being outside of unbind range is rarley an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 possibly better than tzeentch, too early to tell, but certainly in the top 5 now if you want to build for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adasi Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 12 hours ago, Krieger said: Well in a 14 person tournament where one Death player usually does well we just had Death take 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Even Tzeentch never pulled this off. I honestly think that giving Death +3 to cast and +3 to unbind for Arkhan and Nagash is VERY VERY BAD for the competitive scene. This creates way to many games where Death is almost guaranteed to get every buff or debuff off while simultaneously removing the possibility of your opponent getting off a single spell. Because of limited spell range and Arkhan/Nagash being able to fly while still being extremely durable, being outside of unbind range is rarley an option. yeah i don't agree 'im afraid. Death should be powerful in the magic phase as we're nothing in the shooting phase and varying in the combat phase. Death heroes are also very easy to take down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Adasi said: Death heroes are also very easy to take down. wat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Adasi said: yeah i don't agree 'im afraid. Death should be powerful in the magic phase as we're nothing in the shooting phase and varying in the combat phase. Death heroes are also very easy to take down. Death heroes are harder to take down than 90 percent of everyone else's heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Can we just clarify which "class" of hero (are we talking 5 wound models or behemoth ones) else we could easily be talking cross-purposes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adasi Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 aside from Nagash, hero getting shot to death early on! This is coming from a heavily biased experience of playing an Aetherstrike stormcast force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, RuneBrush said: Can we just clarify which "class" of hero (are we talking 5 wound models or behemoth ones) else we could easily be talking cross-purposes! necromancers are the most durable on foot support hero I can think of. A VLoZD can be rocking a 2 up reroll 1s with a bunch of healing and a minus 2 to hit from shooting. EG, he's almost a stardrake. The heroes that aren't durable are mostly mortarchs. But, like, dude, you can't have literally everything going for an army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotrek Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 15 hours ago, stratigo said: necromancers are the most durable on foot support hero I can think of. A VLoZD can be rocking a 2 up reroll 1s with a bunch of healing and a minus 2 to hit from shooting. EG, he's almost a stardrake. The heroes that aren't durable are mostly mortarchs. But, like, dude, you can't have literally everything going for an army. You literally pick the only 2 heroes that have any level of durability. Vampires on foot die to a stiff breeze as do banshees and wraiths. Havent used a wight king yet but i dont have high hopes for him outside of a legion of night. Though even a necromancer will statistically get one shot by a 20man unit of arkanaut company (assuming my mental math is right) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arael_Greywings Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Gotrek said: You literally pick the only 2 heroes that have any level of durability. Vampires on foot die to a stiff breeze as do banshees and wraiths. Havent used a wight king yet but i dont have high hopes for him outside of a legion of night. Though even a necromancer will statistically get one shot by a 20man unit of arkanaut company (assuming my mental math is right) Did you count in their abilitiy to mitigate wounds? I think this is a underestimated but very powerfull ability.... Place em close to a troop of zombies or skellis and he will push of even mortal wounds on a 4+. Combined with an artifact against shooters like in legion of sacrament it will be a lot more troublesome to get them of the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageBoss Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Arael_Greywings said: Did you count in their abilitiy to mitigate wounds? I think this is a underestimated but very powerfull ability.... Place em close to a troop of zombies or skellis and he will push of even mortal wounds on a 4+. Combined with an artifact against shooters like in legion of sacrament it will be a lot more troublesome to get them of the table. He can't bounce mortals anymore. And without artifacts, he statistically goes down after around 10-11 wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choocheelo Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 27 minutes ago, AverageBoss said: He can't bounce mortals anymore. And without artifacts, he statistically goes down after around 10-11 wounds. Yes he can... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageBoss Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, choocheelo said: Yes he can... Just wounds now. The ability no longer mentions mortal wounds as it used to.https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-necromancer-en.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 On 26/02/2018 at 12:27 AM, Krieger said: Well in a 14 person tournament where one Death player usually does well we just had Death take 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Even Tzeentch never pulled this off. I honestly think that giving Death +3 to cast and +3 to unbind for Arkhan and Nagash is VERY VERY BAD for the competitive scene. This creates way to many games where Death is almost guaranteed to get every buff or debuff off while simultaneously removing the possibility of your opponent getting off a single spell. Because of limited spell range and Arkhan/Nagash being able to fly while still being extremely durable, being outside of unbind range is rarley an option. For the cost of Nagash + Arkhan, a Tzeentch player can bring FOUR Lord of Change Damn, thinking about 4 Lord of Change in a single army make me so sick And the total magic phase domination of death don't change anything for many army : stormcast, khorne, fyreslayers and kharadron couldn't do anything against magic anyway (barring few exception. And don't speak about bloodsecrator portal of skulls or slaughterpriest dispell. Even with that, a tzeentch army will pass all of it's spells) and the ULTRA DISPELLS don't help death against undispellable prayers. I think only sylvaneth could "suffer" of this new strong magic opponent, but all it's caster use support magic and don't need to expose themselves near Nagash or Arkhan to use spells anyway. Tzeentch will not be in a total magic domination now, which is good, but they still are hard to shutdown (cf the 4 lord of change against nagash and arkhan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choocheelo Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 But this 4 LoC can cast only 6 spells include bolt and shield... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageBoss Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 7 actually. Infernal Gateway Bolt Shield 4x Lore spells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 And a LoC can be geared to be ultra killy in melee, more than a bloodthirster actually. Even without magic they can kick ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.