The Aelven Faction: let's discuss what we know and can infere so far

[Turgol]

I just wanted to start a thread in which we can discuss what the aelven factions will all be about. Although a full presentation of one faction is still weeks ahead, we already have enough information to make some informed inferences. In order to present my own inferences, I will focus on the four characters/gods that we know so far to be present (Malerion, Tyrion, Morathi and Teclis) and on what they may relate to as faction. Please note that we only know of two new factions (Shadowkin and DoK) but at least a third one, of which we know next to nothing (Lightkin or whatever) is very likely. 

1) What we know:

-Four former characters are alive. Two of them are confirmed to be gods, one (Morathi) is confirmed to be a Demigodess. Yes, confirmed: her very quest was presented in the Shadow Queen trailer as "taking my place in the Pantheon". Teclis's status (god or demigod) is not confirmed. 

-Aelven gods did not find their former kin the Mortal Realms outside of the survivors of Azyrheim. Why they did not content themselves with that is unknown. Very likely real world explanation: the real new elves are the others, Azyrheim aelves are just an excuse to not throw away old armies. Still: in fluff, they do not care much for those aelves. Both Malerion and Tyrion's quest is to find and reestablish their old kin. 

-Malerion and Tyrion found Slaanesh and the souls of the elves form the WHFB world. They captured him, took him to a secret place no one can get to, and started a process of extracting the elven souls in order to reforge their kin. Morathi stole a surplus of aelven souls, without Malerion or Tyrion noticing, "for her own sinister purposes". 

2) Informed predictions 

-Morathi and the DoK. The big questions are: what are Morathi's "sinister purposes"? And where does Khaine fit into a faction centred on Morathi? I think both questions are linked. Her sinister purposes are linked to Khaine: the DoK are aelves reforged in the image of the old Cult of Khaine (with some snake and harpy tones to them as well). They very clearly are still all about blood rituals, torment and the like. My guess: Morathi aims at restoring Khaine. Her son was never enough for her and she might have concluded that both Aenarion and Tyrion only were as avatars of Khaine. Freed from the curse of Khaine by his death, Tyrion avatar of light and god of light offers nothing to her. Think of them in a similar way to Fyreslayers: just as Ur-Gold seeking is a way of honouring and, who know, restoring Grimnir, spilling blood is a way to honor and restore Khaine. And Morathi aims at "being accepted into the pantheon", that is being accepted as goddess and not demi-goddess in the process.That is what the DoK will be all about. 

I know that this prediction runs against the fact that in GA: Order DoK are depicted as living in Azyrheim and thus not being part of the reforged elves. But I am pretty sure that this will be retconned: LoN very clearly states that Morathi is stealing a small surplus of aelven souls. 

-Malerion, Tyrion and the new aelves: we know that the DoK are but a splinter of what is really in the future for the aelves. But what is that? The restoration of the aelves as a major power is quite obvious the outcome of all this. So far, Malerion and Tyrion have been stated to have been successful in impeding the other gods from knowing what they are doing. I think we are soonish to find out what that is: a wholly unexpected power emerging first form Ulgu and then from Hyish (and who knows, maybe they are using the Haven of Lileath as well) as a major player, just as HE/DE were in the old Warhammer world. I also expect the new aelves to be reforged in the image of their new gods, thus changing slightly their aesthetics from their past. 

-Slaanesh. We all have seen this coming. Slaanesh is obviously set to return in a major new arc after (or alongside) the new aelven armies. But how? Most people think that MP will lead to this. I do not expect this. Rather, I think that the likely outcome of the process of "soul extraction" is that Slaanesh will be "fit" again and thus able to free himself, back to torment the same race that was liberated from him. Thus we get a whole new side-conflict in which slaaneshi daemons and mortals act both as hunter and prey of both hunter and prey aelves. 

-There is one thing I am missing here, namely the soul predator from Ulgu that is hinted at in LoN. That might be however a hint to anything from Malerion and Shadowkin to DoK or to something else.

[PJetski]

Theory: Slaneesh is just allowing himself to be captured because he is enjoying the torture, and can break free as soon as he gets bored.

[BURF1]

5 hours ago, PJetski said:

Theory: Slaneesh is just allowing himself to be captured because he is enjoying the torture, and can break free as soon as he gets bored.

Alternate theory, Slaanesh is a tubby loser who got captured because he's just the worst.

[rokapoke]

1 hour ago, BURF1 said:

Alternate theory, Slaanesh is a tubby loser who got captured because he's just the worst.

Completely untrue. I am not Slaanesh. 

[shinros]

10 hours ago, PJetski said:

Theory: Slaneesh is just allowing himself to be captured because he is enjoying the torture, and can break free as soon as he gets bored.

I am going to be serious for a moment and actually say. I think this is what is actually happening. 

[DantePQ]

I am confused, so in your opinion Morathi wants to restore Khaine and become God ? That doesn't add up. If she restores Khaine she can't be God. Khaine is probably just her propaganda to become Goddess on her own as he is long dead.  

I doubt DoK are reforged by Morathi, Daughters of Khaine are living in Azyrheim and what's more in recent podcast someone from GW said that Cult of Khaine is secretive in many mortal kingdoms. It's more possible that Witch Aelves just flocked around Morathi. New models looked like changed Aelves - they look in par like Morathi (Harpies with Wings and Grogons) so probably what Morathi took away  Slaanesh are souls tormented in a way she was tormented. But I doubt she reforged any souls. 

Teclis status is confirmed  as we know he is deity in Realm of Hysh. 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, PJetski said:

Theory: Slaneesh is just allowing himself to be captured because he is enjoying the torture, and can break free as soon as he gets bored.

Does he have a safe word? 'Fajitas' maybe?

And lo the bound form of the monstrous and beautiful god did shatter his unbreakable bonds, and reaching out unbound across the Mortal Realms did scream 'Fajitas' with a profound ecstasy that broke the souls of those who were attuned to the full horror of its meaning.

[Gaz Taylor]

I've moved this thread as it's focused upon AElves.  

[PainfullyMediocre]

Right, bear in mind I'm still a newb to the AoS fluff as well as still a bit bitter about the old world going kaput, but let's go...

 

I don't think Malerion, Tyrion and Teclis abandoned the aelves in the other realms, I think they are more focussed on the souls that are being tortured by Slaanesh, with that being a priority for them to save. In Khaine, Malekith genuinely seems to want to save the elves as a race and Tyrion and Teclis seem like solid guys as it is.

Backgroundwise from the teases GW  have put out we know Malerion and Tyrion have kidnapped slaanesh to extract aelf souls. They must have freed Morathi who agreed to help them, but she has sort of duped them by taking souls to make her own loyal faction.  I think Morathi is using Khaine as a proxy for herself, worshipping Khaine is worshipping Morathi. The with aelves and sisters of slaughter would be the aelves from other realms, while the Gorgons, Medusas and harpies are the ones that have been corrupted by Slaanesh like Morathi herself. Because Morathi hid her theft from Malerion and Tyrion bit not Nagash I've got a feeling that Nagash will gatecrash this subrealm for his souls, mess up the whole deal by waking slaanesh. Slaanesh wakes up and reunites with his daemons, Malerion and Tyrion/Teclis realise their plight then we will get the shadow and/or light aelves release as a reaction to this. I think it would be kinda cool if both factions shared models, with an add on sprue for light/shadow aelves but that is wishful thinking on my part.

I'd expect the light and shadow aelves to have a similar style, some normal aelf and then some twisted type of aelves.

[DantePQ]

@PainfullyMediocre I agree 100% with everything you said. 

 

I guess we could see double kits for light/shadow aelves but I doubt it. Those I hope will be 100% fresh factions (maybe with max 1-2 older units thrown in) but Aelven Gods  AoS lore  hints strongly at new factions. And of them will use Mistweaver I am sure. 

[Turgol]

5 hours ago, DantePQ said:

I am confused, so in your opinion Morathi wants to restore Khaine and become God ? That doesn't add up. If she restores Khaine she can't be God. Khaine is probably just her propaganda to become Goddess on her own as he is long dead.  

I doubt DoK are reforged by Morathi, Daughters of Khaine are living in Azyrheim and what's more in recent podcast someone from GW said that Cult of Khaine is secretive in many mortal kingdoms. It's more possible that Witch Aelves just flocked around Morathi. New models looked like changed Aelves - they look in par like Morathi (Harpies with Wings and Grogons) so probably what Morathi took away  Slaanesh are souls tormented in a way she was tormented. But I doubt she reforged any souls. 

Teclis status is confirmed  as we know he is deity in Realm of Hysh. 

Some DoK will be portrayed as reformed by Morathi, I think that is sure. Whether it is all of them or only the more fantastic ones (harpies, gorgons), remains to be seen.

As for Khaine: I do not think it will be just propaganda. There is no contradiction in her wanting to ascend and her wanting to restore Khaine. Remember Morathi was Hekarthi and was a wife of Khaine. She aimed to be (and in a sense was) a goddess and wife of another, more powerful god, Khaine. Sure, Khaine was incarnated in Aenarion and then Tyrion back then. With the curse of Khaine gone, there is no connection between Tyrion, Malerion and Khaine anymore. But I think her ambition to rule by Khaine’s side will remain. That (alongside her by treated as a minor power by the other gods) will be what drives her and her faction in AoS.

[Frozenbeast]

On 2/15/2018 at 6:14 PM, PJetski said:

Theory: Slaneesh is just allowing himself to be captured because he is enjoying the torture, and can break free as soon as he gets bored.

And if a Slaneesh release is going to happen, this won't be  before next year I think. The shop owner in my town said the plan is to release one Chaos god per year (Khorne first then Tzeentch last year) and this means that seen Nurgle just came out we won't see Slaanesh before next year; and maybe at this point we might expect a big release of Aelves too seen the fluff is linked.

[MacDuff]

This is starting to get as involved as the Mueller investigation. My Aelf-foo is weak, so I'm struggling to get up to speed. Thanks to all for the insights.

[Edgecoc]

So if this new water elf rumour is true, are they gonna be the new high elves or brand new elves.

[DantePQ]

5 hours ago, Edgecoc said:

So if this new water elf rumour is true, are they gonna be the new high elves or brand new elves.

They are rumored to be 100% new Aelves anything like High Elves or Dark Elves desgin wise. Lore-wise I guess they will be followers of Manthlann and lore wise he was worhshipped by Chrace, Lothern High Elves and by DE Corsairs and during ET Aislann (highest lothern command and captain of the Lother Sea Guard ) was his Avatar/was Manthlann himself. 

[Tiger]

6 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Lore-wise I guess they will be followers of Manthlann and lore wise he was worhshipped by Chrace, Lothern High Elves and by DE Corsairs

Cothique was renown to be a coastal realm with harsh weather and sea. Its people famous for their marine skills, although the harsh life made them more rough around the edges. It'd be surprising that the province wouldn't pay respect to the lord of sea and storms.

[DantePQ]

1 minute ago, Tiger said:

Cothique was renown to be a coastal realm with harsh weather and sea. Its people famous for their marine skills, although the harsh life made them more rough around the edges. It'd be surprising that the province wouldn't pay respect to the lord of sea and storms.

Yep you're right I just wanted to write Cothique but wrote Chrace but yes Mathlann was maninly worhsipped by Cothique and Lothern citizens considering High Elves.

[Tiger]

12 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Yep you're right I just wanted to write Cothique but wrote Chrace but yes Mathlann was maninly worhsipped by Cothique and Lothern citizens considering High Elves.

I wouldn't discount Chrace, although Kurnous and Isha were probably their main deity of worship, it can be found that the White Lions often served in the navy, either as special task force or bodyguards to important captains. Certain customs and traditions are going to be mingled and I think it wouldn't be that surprising to find out that some Charicians also paid respect to him.

The other fact is that Chrace/northern part of Ulthuan was often raided by Norscans/Exiles and with sea being the only way, it wouldn't be that surprising to find people praying to Manthlann for protection or perhaps offer certain tributes that'd ward their coast.

[zedatkinszed]

7 hours ago, DantePQ said:

They are rumored to be 100% new Aelves anything like High Elves or Dark Elves desgin wise. Lore-wise I guess they will be followers of Manthlann and lore wise he was worhshipped by Chrace, Lothern High Elves and by DE Corsairs and during ET Aislann (highest lothern command and captain of the Lother Sea Guard ) was his Avatar/was Manthlann himself. 

I like the idea that this is a new race separate from Malerion and Tyrion but there's a few nuggets of doubt in my mind. First this might be the Tenebrael shard's army. If you look at the base of the model he's standing on a tentacle (octopus maybe). Now it could be a shadow demon but equally a sea monster fits. Fluff-wise maybe the reason that nobody could see where Malerion was hiding was because they looking on land not under water.  Whether or not the Mistweaver is involved is less clear but the text from the video is "From out of blackness they come..." which fits the fluff from both the Tenebrael Shard and Mistweaver Saih.

It would be great to see another non Tyrion or Malerion faction but remember there were no aelves outside Azyr. And unless GW suddenly decided, from nowhere, that Mathlann survived (when no other Aelven god did) with a whole civilization of his own then it's either going to be Tyrion or Malerion who leads this. The only other possibility is Araloth but he was Lord over a bunch of Grail Knights not Elves and whether or not any of them actually survived is unclear.

So my guess, this is Malerion's shadowkin but underwater.

[DantePQ]

@zedatkinszedguy who broke rumors about them said that there is no Malerion or Teclis but it's all about Manthlan. Also another source said Mistweaver is part of Sea Aelves.

I guess Tenebrael could be with DoK 

Also not only Malerion, twins and Alarielle survived ET but Alaroth who became Asyruan as well. 

We  only know that Aislinn who became Manthlan was swallowed by waves. Also Widowmaker was thrown in that waters as well. 

[zedatkinszed]

4 hours ago, DantePQ said:

@zedatkinszedguy who broke rumors about them said that there is no Malerion or Teclis but it's all about Manthlan. Also another source said Mistweaver is part of Sea Aelves.

I guess Tenebrael could be with DoK 

Also not only Malerion, twins and Alarielle survived ET but Alaroth who became Asyruan as well. 

We  only know that Aislinn who became Manthlan was swallowed by waves. Also Widowmaker was thrown in that waters as well. 

Hold on. Alarielle, Malekith, Tyrion & Teclis,  became gods for the AOS world after End Times because they were incarnates (or at least Alarielle, Tyrion and Malerion are) but the original gods from WHFB (Lileath, Khaine etc) died - they're gone. 

Malerion and Tyrion and Alarille are not replacements for Khaine etc they're new gods in their own right and linked to the realms. We've had no mention of other Aelf deities since ET/AOS's launch and Morathi confirms that Khaine is indeed dead. From the start of AOS we knew about the big 4 (Morathi, Malerion, Tyrion & Teclis) Aelven survivors/leaders as well as Alarielle. We've heard nothing more. Not a whisper. Except about the Shadowkin/Cthulhu Aelves. Honestly it's the simplest answer.

Regarding Alaroth the Bretonnian Duke, Jerrod, caused Be'lakor to discover Lileath's play and something went wrong. It's not clear if Alaroth survived or if the Chaos Gods got to them. We've heard nothing of him and he wasn't with elves.

The Mathlann thing would be cool and yes I've read Temouloun's comments on War of Sigmar but honestly something doesn't add up. Why in heaven would they sell that as terrain equivalent to the wyld wood? And he's been squirelly about the Mistweaver connection. He's also been inconsistent saying it's a seperate faction (to the shadwkin) but "forget about the Cthulhu look" - if they're separate factions why "forget about the Cthulhu look" that'd be Shadowkin not the Sea Aelves.

Either way it's a win though for Aelf players

[Gecktron]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/18/shadow-queen-unveiled/

The Daughters of Khaine Preview is out. We now have conformation that Morathi will be able to switch from one form to another mid-game.
"While you’ll start each game with Morathi in her form as an aelven queen, you can choose to transform her in any of your turns, while damaging her can cause her to lose control unexpectedly"

This also supports Temoulouns claims from last October, I think its safe to say that he know his stuff and we can treat his words more or less as facts for now.

[Kramer]

18 hours ago, Gecktron said:

This also supports Temoulouns claims from last October, I think its safe to say that he know his stuff and we can treat his words more or less as facts for now.

I always struggle with these kind of things. Because 1. nobody goes back to check everything he has said, so how often was he wrong vs right? 2. He apparently has sources, or is the main source, but did his acces to the info change or not? 3. If he only catches glimpses, how much of his is interpretation. Or did he see everything and how much does he decide to hold back because he feels that is right? Etc. 

But to be fair, I love that I never heard anything about the DoK release until the trailer. For me that's part of what makes the release so exciting and why Kahadron overlords was a bit of a let down. (Months before the first images the rumours became so clear on them. Steampunky dwarfs with flying boats that function as transport). Just some food for thought. 

[PainfullyMediocre]

Dakkadakka has a rumour tracker (it's a shame it exists) so you can track rumour mongers track records of accuracy.

 

Edit: looks like I was right about Morathi leeching off the worship of Khaine. 

[Tiger]

The Daughters of Khaine came into being following the capture of Slaanesh. Morathi, having escaped the god’s clutches through magical means, helped weave the enchantment that caught Slaanesh, with Malerion, Teclis and Tyrion – ancient aelven warriors reborn as Gods of this new age – also providing aid. Together, they were able to free the aelven souls within Slaanesh, and each was rewarded with a portion to shape as they wished.

Interesting, she took more than offered or she wasn't offered anything from the start?

The notion of having hatred towards Slaanesh could also be interesting, potentially something that's going to play as we move into Slaanesh story arc?