deynon Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Undeadly said: That remains to be FAQ'd; if it only applies to the Vampire Queen, its considerably less powerful, but if its the entire Throne, it is incredibly strong. But I assume they'll just limit it to the Vampire Queen. The conve throne it's better described this time: The vampire queen it's mounted on a Coven throne attended by two Pallid Handmaindes --->>> and it's the vamprie queen to be attended by and protected by a swirling spirit.---> as the nadmaindens. And even considering the coven throne the subjects are not attacks brought by the mount. And here it's specified better. This obviously considering logic and grammar, but not necessary what GW can say. So I think it's better to clarify it once for all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undeadly Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, deynon said: The conve throne it's better described this time: The vampire queen it's mounted on a Coven throne attended by two Pallid Handmaindes --->>> and it's the vamprie queen to be attended by and protected by a swirling spirit.---> as the nadmaindens. And even considering the coven throne the subjects are not attacks brought by the mount. And here it's specified better. This obviously considering logic and grammar, but not necessary what GW can say. So I think it's better to clarify it once for all Ah, than yeah, it only effects the Queen's Sword and her Bite. Considering the Spirit Hosts still MW, its not that big a loss. Also, it would have been much easier if they just called it "Vampire Queen on Coven Throne". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Undeadly said: Ah, than yeah, it only effects the Queen's Sword and her Bite. Considering the Spirit Hosts still MW, its not that big a loss. Also, it would have been much easier if they just called it "Vampire Queen on Coven Throne". you'd lose 8 Attack of the haindmaidens, quite a bit of loss, and anyway that trait it's not the only thing that can affect it overall, including also the ghosts. In can't be Vampire Queen on Coven Throne cause doesn't exist a vampire queen, only vampire lord. It's silly, but it's as it's working GW. Prince Vhordrai its already a strange exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 skarbrands axe always deals 8 wounds if it hits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKingInYellow Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 17 minutes ago, Arkiham said: skarbrands axe always deals 8 wounds if it hits I'm not denying that. I'm asking if you can reallocate those wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunchaser Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 54 minutes ago, TheKingInYellow said: I'm not denying that. I'm asking if you can reallocate those wounds. If no save then skip the first part of the other comment. Roll for deathless minions > roll for ceaseless > deathless minions on morghast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vextol Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 16 minutes ago, Sunchaser said: If no save then skip the first part of the other comment. Roll for deathless minions > roll for ceaseless > deathless minions on morghast I disagree. "Unsavable" means unsavable. No saves OF ANY KIND. That wasn't the question though, the question was whether he could pass them. It's a better question but I still think no. It's in the same genre as an instant kill spell. It's done. It happens no matter what. You can't pass unsabale wounds, you can't pass dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Vextol said: I disagree. "Unsavable" means unsavable. No saves OF ANY KIND. That wasn't the question though, the question was whether he could pass them. It's a better question but I still think no. It's in the same genre as an instant kill spell. It's done. It happens no matter what. You can't pass unsabale wounds, you can't pass dead. Agree with you on this one Vex. After studying the warscroll closely, it is quite clear that you aren't allowed to do anything to mitigate, prevent or modify the wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Skarbrand’s Axe has unique wording and an FAQ specific to it. 5++ protections are not “saves” and would still work against the Terrorgheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone2040 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 7 hours ago, AverageBoss said: Point 4 allows it, and that is the way they have been run for awhile. Everchosen includes several Everchosen battalions that are impossible to run with Everchosen units for example. Its the reason why you see Fatesworn Warband run in StD, DoT, and GA:C lists. The debate from my understanding isn't whether or not the units can be part of a specific allegiance. It's whether or not the warscroll battalion itself is part of that allegiance or not. For example, if you are running Fatesworn and you choose a TZEENTCH allegiance. All the warscrolls are TZEENTCH and hence meet the allegiance requirements. But does the points for Fatesworn have to come out of your allies or not? Because Fatesworn is an EVERCHOSEN warscroll battalion, not a TZEENTCH one. I personally am on the side that I think it's a bit silly that the battalion cost would come out of your allies. But if it is the case, then the Legions have the issue in that none of them are allies with the other (it's redundant, since they can all take the same models anyway). Certainly I think it's worthwhile for Games Workshop to clear up the intent in any case as it's obviously a question people aren't sure about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKingInYellow Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 32 minutes ago, Richelieu said: Agree with you on this one Vex. After studying the warscroll closely, it is quite clear that you aren't allowed to do anything to mitigate, prevent or modify the wounds. Again reallocating is none of those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vextol Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, TheKingInYellow said: Again reallocating is none of those things. Actually, reallocating is a form of mitigation. That aside, you aren't getting a concrete answer to this because it's a unique case. Closest you can get is direct wording and that the FAQ says the wounds cannot be modified at all in any way (including by a stonehorn whose ability, at the time, took place after damage was already distributed). Reallocation is modification but you could argue if you wanted. If I was a death player and I got hit with skarbrand I would never argue that I could reallocate to another unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKingInYellow Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Yeah I agree, it's such a specific case but I could see it coming up in a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZephyrExia Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 So, in the new book, am I right in assuming that if I choose a Legion/Grand Host allegiance, the only possible allies are F-E Courts? Is this to stop people from choosing a legion (eg Sacrament), not picking up the applicable Mortarch as general, then allying in a different Mortarch as a different legion/GA death ally? The new allegiance rules seem very restrictive for army building, where if I want to put Arkhan in my army, but still want a command trait, I'd have to run GA Death or GH Nagash. I was also hoping for more warscroll battalions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, ZephyrExia said: So, in the new book, am I right in assuming that if I choose a Legion/Grand Host allegiance, the only possible allies are F-E Courts? Is this to stop people from choosing a legion (eg Sacrament), not picking up the applicable Mortarch as general, then allying in a different Mortarch as a different legion/GA death ally? The new allegiance rules seem very restrictive for army building, where if I want to put Arkhan in my army, but still want a command trait, I'd have to run GA Death or GH Nagash. I was also hoping for more warscroll battalions. You have at your disposal allegiance Grand Host, Grand Allegiance Death, Soulblight in the Legion of Nagash Batletome. NIghthunt and FEC in the GH2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskander Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 On 2/10/2018 at 6:06 PM, yarrickson said: Well I can answer 2) for you now. As a Deathmage the Necromancer gets to know one spell from the Lore of the Deathmages because he is in the Legion of Sacrament. He has no innate ability granting him another. Save for the Dark Acolyte Command Trait I also see no other way to change that. Unless I have misunderstood you, this is not accurate. I don't have my book in front of me, but (I'm 95% sure) the page of LoN describing the new Lores expressly says each Deathmages, Vampire, or Deathlord, wizard gets to know spells from the appropriate lores. This is innate to each of those wizards now. The Legion of Sacrament gives each wizard in the Legion an extra spell beyond that. On 2/11/2018 at 1:11 AM, Lord Veshnakar said: So the Legion of Sacrament is the only way to access either of the two new lores? That seems off to me. I agree with this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskander Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I would add two questions 1) Are Vargheists really no longer "Battleline if Soulblight", or was that change an accident? (Probably not an accident, but it seems like a harsh and unnecessary nerf.) 2) You do need to set aside reserve points for The Master's Teachings, right? (Or if I've misnamed it - the Legion of Sacrament thing that gives you a chance to bring back certain dead units under rare conditions... and feels kinda hard to use right now.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, Iskander said: Unless I have misunderstood you, this is not accurate. I don't have my book in front of me, but (I'm 95% sure) the page of LoN describing the new Lores expressly says each Deathmages, Vampire, or Deathlord, wizard gets to know spells from the appropriate lores. This is innate to each of those wizards now. The Legion of Sacrament gives each wizard in the Legion an extra spell beyond that. I agree with this guy. Yarrickson is absolutely correct. Go back and read the rules carefully. Relevant rules are below. WIZARDS THAT (emphasis mine) know an additional spell (or spells) from one of the Lores of the Dead, as described in their army's allegiance abilities (again emphasis mine), generate their spells from the following tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarrickson Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 13 hours ago, Iskander said: Unless I have misunderstood you, this is not accurate. I don't have my book in front of me, but (I'm 95% sure) the page of LoN describing the new Lores expressly says each Deathmages, Vampire, or Deathlord, wizard gets to know spells from the appropriate lores. This is innate to each of those wizards now. The Legion of Sacrament gives each wizard in the Legion an extra spell beyond that. I agree with this guy. As already clarified above (and also already clarified a page ago, immediately after the post you quote) Wizards in the Grand Legion and the 3 lesser legions all get access to lore of deathmages/vampires as appropriate as do Soulblight, but only for Lore of vampires. Other than 1 Sacrament command trait there is no mechanism I have seen that gets you more spells from the Lores save taking more wizards. A lot of confusion seems to have originated from the Legion of Sacrament preview which indicated that Sacrament wizards knew extra spells, which is only true when comparing them to wizards in a GA:Death allegiance army and not when comparing them to the other legions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 17 hours ago, someone2040 said: The debate from my understanding isn't whether or not the units can be part of a specific allegiance. It's whether or not the warscroll battalion itself is part of that allegiance or not. For example, if you are running Fatesworn and you choose a TZEENTCH allegiance. All the warscrolls are TZEENTCH and hence meet the allegiance requirements. But does the points for Fatesworn have to come out of your allies or not? Because Fatesworn is an EVERCHOSEN warscroll battalion, not a TZEENTCH one. I personally am on the side that I think it's a bit silly that the battalion cost would come out of your allies. But if it is the case, then the Legions have the issue in that none of them are allies with the other (it's redundant, since they can all take the same models anyway). Certainly I think it's worthwhile for Games Workshop to clear up the intent in any case as it's obviously a question people aren't sure about. There is no debate. I'll use the easiest example of Guardians of Alarielle. It includes a number of Stormcast units. For the purposes of army construction and determining allegiance, those Stormcast units gain the Sylvaneth keyword. They do not benefit from Sylvaneth allegiance abilities. This is described clearly in GHB 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskander Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, yarrickson said: As already clarified above (and also already clarified a page ago, immediately after the post you quote) Wizards in the Grand Legion and the 3 lesser legions all get access to lore of deathmages/vampires as appropriate as do Soulblight, but only for Lore of vampires. Other than 1 Sacrament command trait there is no mechanism I have seen that gets you more spells from the Lords save taking more wizards. A lot of confusion seems to have originated from the Legion of Sacrament preview which indicated that Sacrament wizards knew extra spells, which is only true when comparing them to wizards in a GA:Death allegiance army and not when comparing them to the other legions. Well, my mistake. Thanks for clearing it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzy128 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 So, they clarified that artifacts only affect the bearer not the mount. What about vhodrai’s spell? It says the caster gets +1 to hit and wound. Does that affect his mount as well? I suppose it doesn’t but I’m not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 The mounts rule is specific to Command Traits and Artefacts. It has no relevance to spells, Battle Traits or other buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 There is a rule on page 95 (numbered point 4, final sentence) of the Disciples of Tzeentch Battletome allowing a Battalion to have the allegiance of a keyword shared by all of its contents - so Fatesworn can be Tzeentch for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 it's to specofy. Command traits and artifacts don't influence the mount of the hero/general itself but they can influence other allied mounts^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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