Legions of Nagash FAQ Compilation Thread.

[yarrickson]

Well the book is now officially out (although we've all seen most of it already over the last week) and as I understand it we pretty much have a week to ask any questions before the FAQ is put out in a fortnight.

Any questions pop them in here and I (or you can, feel free :-) will e-mail them in to GW next Saturday.

Edited to add questions that need answers. 

The Black Coach. Still has the hero keyword, but is not in the leader section in the back of the book?

How are Morikhane and Deathless Minions supposed to interact with the Ceaseless Vigil rule from the First Cohort?

Is Prince Vhordrai's Breath of Shyish a shooting attack to be used in the shooting phase?

Can the Sepulchral Guard be taken in a Legion of Nagash army?

Can the Legion warscroll batallions be taken outside of the Legion named on their warscrolls?

If the Command Trait Mark of the Favoured kills the attacking model, what happens?

How does ceaseless vigil interact with Skarbrand's Total Carnage rule. 

 

[BaldoBeardo]

31 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

Well the book is now officially out (although we've all seen most of it already over the last week) and as I understand it we pretty much have a week to ask any questions before the FAQ is put out in a fortnight.

Any questions pop them in here and I (or you can, feel free :-) will e-mail them in to GW next Saturday.

To start with: 

The black coach. Still has the hero keyword, but is not in the leader section in the back of the book?

How are saves/mortal wound saves supposed to interact with the Ceaseless Vigil rule from the First Cohort?

1) Black Coach not the first unit to be a non-leader hero. It would also be very very weird fluff-accurate.

2) Roll normal save, determine damage, Ceaseless Vigil each wound, then special 'saves'.

[Josh]

with the double cast does that mean 2 d3 arcane bolts? and +2 save from mystic sheild

 

also the princes breath weapon doesnt say what phase it happens in (obviously shooting?)

[Vextol]

 

20 minutes ago, Josh said:

with the double cast does that mean 2 d3 arcane bolts? and +2 save from mystic sheild

I believe double cast only happens for sells cast within the death spell lore.

[Elgard]

Locus of Shyish

If you make an unmodified casting roll of 9+ for a Death Wizard that is attempting to cast a spell from the Lore of the Deathmages or the Lore of the Vampires, and it is not unbound, then after resolving the effects of that spell you may immediately resolve them for a second time.

So yes it doesn't work on any mystic shield,arcane bolt , signature warscroll spells or any other spells acquired through any means

[yarrickson]

59 minutes ago, Josh said:

with the double cast does that mean 2 d3 arcane bolts? and +2 save from mystic sheild

 

also the princes breath weapon doesnt say what phase it happens in (obviously shooting?)

I knew I was forgetting an obvious one :-) Prince Vhordrai's Breath of Shyish. 

[Sception]

Can the Legion of Blood, Legion of Night, and Legion of Sacrament battalions be taken in a Grand Host of Nagash army?

Right now RAW seems yes, but I've gotten some pushback over the table, so official confirmation would be nice.

[deynon]

About Legion of Sacrament., command triat Mark of the Favoured:

it should apply before that the hit to roll from the enemy are done, but you have to then negated the hit and wounds for the models who dies cause the mortal wounds received?

[Killax]

58 minutes ago, Sception said:

Can the Legion of Blood, Legion of Night, and Legion of Sacrament battalions be taken in a Grand Host of Nagash army?

Right now RAW seems yes, but I've gotten some pushback over the table, so official confirmation would be nice.

Yes, provided you meet the unit requirements. 

Where does the pushback come from? Every book has this point 4. What it means is that you still have to choose a Grand Host/Legion, fufill the requirements, but it doesn't mean that because the Battalion units ****** benifit from the Allegiance.

Quote

If a battalion has an allegiance, its units can be included in an army that has that allegiance even if they do not have that keyword on their warscroll. However, its units only benefit from that army’s allegiance abilities if they have the appropriate keyword on their warscroll. A battalion can still be part of any allegiance that all its units have on their warscrolls.

47 minutes ago, deynon said:

About Legion of Sacrament., command triat Mark of the Favoured:

it should apply before that the hit to roll from the enemy are done, but you have to then negated the hit and wounds for the models who dies cause the mortal wounds received?

I don't understand your question here.  But Mark of the Favoured does:

- Each time the model is targeted by an attack in the combat phase, roll a 6+, if that roll is made the unit suffers 1 mortal wound. 
E.g. 6 models target the model with their attacks, you roll one 6, the unit suffers a mortal wound and then proceeds to resolve the attacks.

[yarrickson]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

Yes, provided you meet the unit requirements. 

Where does the pushback come from? Every book has this point 4. What it means is that you still have to choose a Grand Host/Legion, fufill the requirements, but it doesn't mean that because the Battalion units ****** benifit from the Allegiance.

I don't understand your question here.  But Mark of the Favoured does:

- Each time the model is targeted by an attack in the combat phase, roll a 6+, if that roll is made the unit suffers 1 mortal wound. 
E.g. 6 models target the model with their attacks, you roll one 6, the unit suffers a mortal wound and then proceeds to resolve the attacks.

I think (but can't be 100%) that Deynon is asking what happens when a 1 wound model attacks the general and a 6 is rolled?

Here's a sneaky one. Legion of Sacrament command trait #3 Dark Acolyte. Makes your general a wizard that knows arcane bolt, mystic shield and a spell from one of the Lords of the Dead. However if you use this (as one would imagine was intended) on a Wight King, Wraith or Similar, they lack the Deathmages or Vampire keywords that actually allow them to select from either of the Lores of the Dead. 

Furthermore as a wizard in a legion of sacrament, would they generate a second spell per the magic section at bottom left of page 64.

[Richelieu]

5 hours ago, BaldoBeardo said:

2) Roll normal save, determine damage, Ceaseless Vigil each wound, then special 'saves'.

RAW this isn't correct.  You choose the order of abilities that trigger at the same time and ceaseless vigil, Morikhane, deathless minions and eben wrought armour all trigger upon allocation of a mortal wound. 

RAW the sequence would be:

Mortal wound allocated to Nagash → deathless save → Morikhane save → ceaseless vigil →  mortal wound allocated to morghast Archai → deathless save → eben-wrought armor save

Normal wound sequence would be:

Nagash armour save → determine damage → allocate first wound to Nagash  → deathless → ceaseless vigil → allocate wound to morghast → deathless, then repeat for each wound from the allocation to Nagash step.

[yarrickson]

5 hours ago, BaldoBeardo said:

1) Black Coach not the first unit to be a non-leader hero. It would also be very very weird fluff-accurate.

2) Roll normal save, determine damage, Ceaseless Vigil each wound, then special 'saves'.

1) Which other units previously? It does mean the black coach can have an artefact while not taking up a leader slot which is unusual. Given it had the leader role in GHB17 only a few months ago I still think its a fair question. Fluff aside. 

2) What about Mortal wounds? Does deathless minions apply before and after transference? What about Morikhane and ebon-wrought armour?

[GonnaWorkForFood]

Would wanna see how arkhan's commanf ability works with balewind vortex.

[Richelieu]

2 minutes ago, GonnaWorkForFood said:

Would wanna see how arkhan's commanf ability works with balewind vortex.

FAQ has clarified that you multiply, then add.

So in this case, double range from balewind, then add 9" to that result.

[Vextol]

What's the wording on ceaseless vigil?  Suffer or allocate?

[yarrickson]

Just now, Vextol said:

What's the wording on ceaseless vigil?  Suffer or allocate?

Allocate. Same wording as Morikhane and Deathless Minions. 

[Vextol]

5 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

Allocate. Same wording as Morikhane and Deathless Minions. 

Does it allocate "wounds dealt" or does it allocate all wounds as mortal wounds?  Aka, does it turn regular damage into mortal wound damage?

[yarrickson]

Just now, Vextol said:

Does it allocate "wounds dealt" or does it allocate all wounds as mortal wounds?  Aka, does it turn regular damage into mortal wound damage?

Wording attached. 

[Vextol]

Hmm.  I think that means nagash doesn't get his mortal wound save first and then pass it.  I think he passes it or he doesn't then gets his save.  Once he attempts to save it, it's not "reallocated" so you can either pass it to someone else or take it yourself.

Any reason why that's not correct?  I am almost certainly wrong but the FAQ wording about allocating and suffering is very confusing to me.

[yarrickson]

1 minute ago, Vextol said:

Hmm.  I think that means nagash doesn't get his mortal wound save first and then pass it.  I think he passes it or he doesn't then gets his save.  Once he attempts to save it, it's not "reallocated" so you can either pass it to someone else or take it yourself.

Any reason why that's not correct?

Well yeah. Richelieu above has noted the timing issue. 

30 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

RAW this isn't correct.  You choose the order of abilities that trigger at the same time and ceaseless vigil, Morikhane, deathless minions and eben wrought armour all trigger upon allocation of a mortal wound. 

 

[Vextol]

I understand the idea of them all triggering. I guess I understand now. From a physical perspective you are rolling one at a time but effectively you are rolling three or 4 dice at the same time to accomplish the same effect.  

The issue is you pick what happens when you allocate each wound-say I have 5 wounds dealt to me.  I roll the double save and the pass wounds at the same time because that's all happening at the same time.  Should be 5 sets of three dice I roll. Any 'pool' of dice that isn't saved, but is passed,  gets passed to the archai.  They now have a wound allocated to them-second event.  Now they get their saves.

Here's the problem: unless you roll all the things happening at the same time for the same wound, you are selectively choosing ONLY the best rolls for each thing.  You are effectively trippling your save chance by allocating the dice when they fit the situation instead of applying all the dice at the same time.  If I rolled everything at the same time, I have a VERY good chance that the same wound would receive several of the saves.

Don't have a solution outside different colored dice haha.

Edit: I was wrong.   Ran a quick 100,000 dice sim-difference is null. 

[deynon]

3 hours ago, Killax said:

Yes, provided you meet the unit requirements. 

Where does the pushback come from? Every book has this point 4. What it means is that you still have to choose a Grand Host/Legion, fufill the requirements, but it doesn't mean that because the Battalion units ****** benifit from the Allegiance.

I don't understand your question here.  But Mark of the Favoured does:

- Each time the model is targeted by an attack in the combat phase, roll a 6+, if that roll is made the unit suffers 1 mortal wound. 
E.g. 6 models target the model with their attacks, you roll one 6, the unit suffers a mortal wound and then proceeds to resolve the attacks.

Yallokson caught it right. 

If you gain 1 or more mortal wound and those would kill enemy models, do you kill them before them  could atack? Cause it would decrease the amount of attacks the general itself suffer, even arrivying to prevent killing

[choocheelo]

4 hours ago, Richelieu said:

 

Normal wound sequence would be:

Nagash armour save → determine damage → allocate first wound to Nagash  → deathless → ceaseless vigil → allocate wound to morghast → morghast save → deathless, then repeat for each wound from the allocation to Nagash step.

it is not  a "lookout sir" ability

you allocating wound on unit, so you must roll save for this unit

[Richelieu]

5 minutes ago, choocheelo said:

it is not  a "lookout sir" ability

you allocating wound on unit, so you must roll save for this unit

Attacks target units, but wounds are allocated to models.  

[choocheelo]

1 minute ago, Richelieu said:

Attacks target units, but wounds are allocated to models.  

and? I dont roll save for that model?