Pestilens Thread, tactics, builds, advice

[GrandMa]

@TheOtherJosh

Thanks for the quick reply, the first list I have run multiple times, just doesn´t work.
Not enough threat for ranged or mobile enemies, they just get to spam you down, while you march across the board.

I agree that a second plague furnace could be good, I just can´t justify the 340 points for it and second battalion.

Plagueclaw list is as random as it comes I think, the numbers for them are just not good, and deviance in performance is huge.

[SkavenInAZ]

20 hours ago, Darigandevil said:

Please tell me you didnt accidently high the 0 button too many times there?

Please link pictures of your collection!

I did not.  Let me get the next batch in and I'll see what I can do.

16 hours ago, Mayple said:

@SkavenInAZ does my memory serve me correctly in thinking you're the go-to warhammer fantasy Skaven person who may or may not be on youtube? Good to have you on board do feel free to share your potentially enormous collection!

That's me!  SkavenInAZ.com will get you there.  AoS content is pretty old, but.. I'll have some more up there soonish I imagine.

[Cerve]

I'm not a super competitive player, but I can't really like Plagueclaws. I can't pass over the fact that I can go vs Nurgle and then play 500-600 useless points.

I usually play:

Plague Furnace, 3xPriests, 3x40Monks, 20 Clanrats, 20GiantRats

I like it, just struggling against the Gaunt Summoner. I'm looking for something against it. But I don't like Plagueclaws for the poit up here

 

[Darigandevil]

1 hour ago, SkavenInAZ said:

I did not.  Let me get the next batch in and I'll see what I can do.

How big is a batch when you have 30000 points?

[HorseOnABeachBall]

@TheOtherJosh

Not trying to be too negative , but I find the opposite of what you say to be true; Plaguefurnaces are bad. They're slow, they're overpriced by about 60pts and have the combat prowess of a pool noodle.  Most of the abilities on their warscroll are throw aways also. They do have a role in the army, but it's currently out of wack.

 

I actually found almost all of that advice to be suspect. The stars of the Pestilens allegiance are the plague monks. Any list choice that results in "less plague monks" seems to be a poor one.

[HorseOnABeachBall]

3 hours ago, Cerve said:

I'm not a super competitive player, but I can't really like Plagueclaws. I can't pass over the fact that I can go vs Nurgle and then play 500-600 useless points.

I usually play:

Plague Furnace, 3xPriests, 3x40Monks, 20 Clanrats, 20GiantRats

I like it, just struggling against the Gaunt Summoner. I'm looking for something against it. But I don't like Plagueclaws for the poit up here

 

Yeah, the summoner is vicious. Might be worth breaking those units of 40 into units of 20. The gaunt will hurt you a lot less if he's only frying 20 rats a turn as opposed to 40. 

[Nikobot]

4 hours ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

@TheOtherJosh

Not trying to be too negative , but I find the opposite of what you say to be true; Plaguefurnaces are bad. They're slow, they're overpriced by about 60pts and have the combat prowess of a pool noodle.  Most of the abilities on their warscroll are throw aways also. They do have a role in the army, but it's currently out of wack.

 

I actually found almost all of that advice to be suspect. The stars of the Pestilens allegiance are the plague monks. Any list choice that results in "less plague monks" seems to be a poor one.

I agree with all this. 

Plague monks are the stars, support them with a corrupter, priests and if you really want at most 1 furnace for variety of prayers. But it's not that great. Plague claws if you want to dabble with shooting. 

But really, lots and lots of monks is optimal.

Furnaces are not great in combat, just kind of a big distraction. Don't know how much damage they average but from my games it feels about 4-5 wounds a turn if in cc.

Censors are a waste, just get more monks.

[TheOtherJosh]

4 hours ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

Plaguefurnaces are bad. They're slow,

They’re only slow when not using Plaguemonks as their delivery method.

20 Plague monks surrounding the furnace gives it a +6” movement and ups damage on the charge to 2D6 for the rusty wheels and spikes. (30 plague monks would give you a +10” movement and 40 (If you could squeeze that many) would give you +13” movement ...

The key is that you want a bucketload of Plague monks around the furnace. Even without the second battalion they are getting the benefit of the Pestilens prayers.

[GrandMa]

A note on weak units, Verminlord Corruptor is bad, only good for soaking up damage and boosting your monks.

As others have mentioned, the starts of the show is your plague monks, but you need to make sure they get where they need to go.

Thats why I include shooting and some sneaky eshin. Plague priests are also good distractions and can help boost monks output even further.

[HorseOnABeachBall]

3 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

They’re only slow when not using Plaguemonks as their delivery method.

20 Plague monks surrounding the furnace gives it a +6” movement and ups damage on the charge to 2D6 for the rusty wheels and spikes. (30 plague monks would give you a +10” movement and 40 (If you could squeeze that many) would give you +13” movement ...

The key is that you want a bucketload of Plague monks around the furnace. Even without the second battalion they are getting the benefit of the Pestilens prayers.

It's 2d6 attacks , not damage.

And from what I've experienced , trying to maximize Pushed to Battle, ends up leaving your plague monk units in very strange contorted positions.

Id also say that expecting 4-5 wounds out of the furnace is still a little optimistic. 1-3 tops.

It does have a role , but I think it's effectiveness is being greatly embellished.

[TheOtherJosh]

21 minutes ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

It's 2d6 attacks , not damage.

And from what I've experienced , trying to maximize Pushed to Battle, ends up leaving your plague monk units in very strange contorted positions.

Id also say that expecting 4-5 wounds out of the furnace is still a little optimistic. 1-3 tops.

It does have a role , but I think it's effectiveness is being greatly embellished.

I won’t disagree with you that it can end up placing stuff out of whack. But, the furnace can be pretty much as fast as you’d like to make it.

And you’re right, it is 2D6 attacks, not damage. (So, ~7 average, ~4 hit, 2 Wound ... assuming you have monks in place)

This is in addition to: (Up to) +1D6 mortal (~50% chance of ~3 mortal) wounds from the censer, (up to) +1d3 from fumes (~50% chance of ~2 mortal wounds), +attacks from the priest on the Furnace. (3 attacks @ 50% so ... ~2 with 1 Wound success for d3 so ~2 wounds)

so best  (average) case ~5 mortal wounds, ~4 regular.

The killer is the monks that you leveraged to get the furnace in position in combat could now be blessed with Rabid Fever. And a unit of Plague monks with that is a serious pain in the neck. (Speaking from the perspective of having played against them as well.)

The furnace is basically a “distraction carnifex” used to get the monks into position to stomp the enemy. And the formation does give one the 6+ Save. Having a second formation of them means they have to kill two furnaces to remove the total threat.

But you’re right... the furnace has movement challenges and placement challenges (due to base size).

So I’m likely being overly optimistic. 

[SkavenInAZ]

16 hours ago, Darigandevil said:

How big is a batch when you have 30000 points?

100 Plague Monks

Thanquol

Corruptor

50ish Giant Rats

2 Warp Grinders

Warlord on Brood Horror (Mierce as I already have the FW one)

Plague priest covered from Grey Seer model

5 Jezzails

This adds to this:

210 Clanrats
50 Plague Monks
60 Stormvermin
18 Rat Ogres
19 Stormfiends
2 PCC
2 WLC
50 Giant Rats
Verminlord
Warlord on Brood horror
Bell
Plague Furnace
30 Gutter Runners
15 Jezzails
3 Rattling Gun
3 Poison Wind Mortar
3 Naptha Thrower
20 PCB
6 Rat Swarms
8 Packmasters
2 Doomwheel
Tyrant on Rat Ogre
Tyrant in Vermin Guard Litter
2 assassins
2 BSB
Queek

And assuredly more I can't recall

 

 

[Nikobot]

7 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

from fumes (~50% chance of ~2 mortal wounds),

one very annoying aspect of the furnace and censer bearers are fumes activate in your Hero phase...

This means it seldom factors in unless combats are long and drawn out, what used to be very scary in times of old is now a bit of a nothing ability sadly

Not such a huge deal for the furnace. but for censers its a real kick in the teeth, expecting units which are supposed to be small, with 1w and no armour to survive 1-2 turns to potentially use one of their key abilities  hopefully gets changed to start of combat

[tolstedt]

The reason to take the verminlord is for a 12 wound priest. The reason to take the plague furnace is for a 12 wound priest with rabbit fever which is an amazing ability. I wouldn't take more than one of each and if I had to drop one to take more rats it would be the verminlord.

 

[ClockworkGeo91]

Current state of pestilens? Been lurking here for a while because Pestilens is my fave army aesthetically. Just unsure about their current state of play.

[Euphanism]

On 5/22/2018 at 7:08 AM, ClockworkGeo91 said:

Current state of pestilens? Been lurking here for a while because Pestilens is my fave army aesthetically. Just unsure about their current state of play.

I think it's solid mid-tier. You'll get stomped by ultra-competitive lists, but then again, that's why they are top tier. Monks are one of the best battleline chaff in the game, and if you sprinkle in a few Nurgle units for buffs, you can build a pretty competitive force. They're fun to play though, especially if you like covering the board in a million little diseased rats. There's a lot of hate for the Plagueclaw units but personally I've always liked them, with a little luck they can drop a battle line unit before your monks even get there.

I'm hoping that the GHB2018 reworks or adds to the Pestilens allegiance though, since right now it makes more sense to add Monks to a Nurgle list, rather than running strict Pestilens, if you're trying to compete at a tournament level.

[Chickenbits]

On 5/22/2018 at 1:08 PM, ClockworkGeo91 said:

Current state of pestilens? Been lurking here for a while because Pestilens is my fave army aesthetically. Just unsure about their current state of play.

They're the textbook definition of a coin-flip army. Play against a slower army with decent but not bonkers shooting, like Stormcast or maybe even Changehost, on a mission with a lot of objectives? Enjoy yourself.

 

See a Kunnin' Ruk army on the other side of the table? Don't even bother deploying, just shake your opponents hand, congratulate him on his win, and go get an early lunch.

[HorseOnABeachBall]

I've been running Pestilens out of Maggotkin. I'd say it's about 100% increase in win rate from pure Pestilens. Having access to Cycle2 means you no longer need PlaguePriests and the save in points can go towards your ' Nurgle tax' ( three units of marauders). Some thoughts;

- cycle1 and gnarlmaws  means  Plague monks become an actual threat. If only there was a reliable way of rerolling charges (here's looking at you AoS2) and not having to spend the points on the battalion...

- Corruptor has increased in value dramatically under Maggotkin. 2 spells a turn and a high base speed is quite nice. GUO with a bell is probably better...

- 

[Lord_Skrolk]

Looking through this thread, I've seen a lot of discussion about whether Plagueclaw Catapults are worth it. Fair question. 

I think the question shouldn't be "Are Plagueclaw Catapults worth taking", because that's a tough question to answer--against hordes yes, against anyone else no, against Nurgle or Pestilens absolutely not. 

I think the question should really be "Are Plagueclaw Catapults worth it over just taking 20-30 more Plague Monks?" And the answer to that simply no. If you're not 100% certain about the value a unit will bring, as Pestilens you can *never* go wrong by just bringing more Plague Monks. 

No one has ever lost a battle and thought "Darn, really wish I had more Plagueclaw Catapults!" I constantly see Pestilens players losing battles and saying "That catapult was basically useless, why didn't I just bring more Plague Monks?" 

Anyway, new to this forum and just wanted to share a longtime thought I've had about Plagueclaws. 

[Euphanism]

Ive found the most effective way to run Plagueclaws is with the Foulrain battalion (fingers crossed for a price drop on it though). That makes each Plagueclaw 2+/2+/-2 rend/2D6 when targeting something with more than 10 models. Against a non-Nurgle horde or a primarily stationary army (looking at you, Freeguild) it's a horrible surprise for your opponent. That being said, I think they are too overcosted to run without that setup, since you're basically spending 180pts for one attack per turn that might whiff entirely.

[HorseOnABeachBall]

15 hours ago, Euphanism said:

Ive found the most effective way to run Plagueclaws is with the Foulrain battalion (fingers crossed for a price drop on it though). That makes each Plagueclaw 2+/2+/-2 rend/2D6 when targeting something with more than 10 models. Against a non-Nurgle horde or a primarily stationary army (looking at you, Freeguild) it's a horrible surprise for your opponent. That being said, I think they are too overcosted to run without that setup, since you're basically spending 180pts for one attack per turn that might whiff entirely.

Ooof..... 820 pts  for the full monty vs  540 pts if you decide to just run 3 catapults.  Doesn't square up for me. The opportunity cost on missing out on another 40 plague monks is pretty steep.

Would be nice to see plagueclaws go to 160.

There's also a command trait out there. Its free and goes a bit towards simulating the 820pts for the foulrain.

[BeefyLemur]

What do you guys use as a carrying case? I've been using a cardboard box, but want to find a more permanent solution. Over 100 models with some big guys mixed in seems challenging.

[Mayple]

6 hours ago, BeefyLemur said:

What do you guys use as a carrying case? I've been using a cardboard box, but want to find a more permanent solution. Over 100 models with some big guys mixed in seems challenging.

Citadel case the big one. Works great!

[Euphanism]

8 hours ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

Ooof..... 820 pts  for the full monty vs  540 pts if you decide to just run 3 catapults.  Doesn't square up for me. The opportunity cost on missing out on another 40 plague monks is pretty steep.

Would be nice to see plagueclaws go to 160.

There's also a command trait out there. Its free and goes a bit towards simulating the 820pts for the foulrain.

Yeah, my hope is AoS 2.0 drops their point costs a decent amount, because it's actually a really effective combo in a force that doesn't have a ton of ranged options. Played it last night and it took out two big blocks of Seraphon warriors before they even made it halfway across the field.

[grungolah]

Have you guys thought about how Verminlords will be summoned?  What point total could they count that would make summoning distinct from Nurgle, or will Pestilens just be expected to bring Gnarlmaws?  That doesn't feel very ratty.