Lets Chat: Legions of Nagash

[Malakithe]

15 hours ago, Amradiel said:

Nagash 

Arkhan 

10 x 3 Skeletons 

4 Morgasts 

The first cohort 

1960 if my math is correct.

But as I mentioned, a Necromancer with artefact might work better? And 40, 10 and another 10 Skeletons. 

Ive seen First Cohort lists using 2 necros in order to use items since you cant use items with Nagash or Arkhan

[flowerpot_chimp]

Apologies for another "what do people think about this list" post. But I'll be taking Legions to a doubles event at the end of the month and whilst I've pretty much settled on a list, I'm struggling to decide which Legion will be best to run with it?

Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Spectral Grasp
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears

I've played around with a few lists with Mortarchs, Blood Knights, Coven Thrones etc but feel like this has had the best impact. I've tested it with Legion of Sacrement because of the triple wizards, and I like the wristbands on the VLoZD, however I was a bit disappointed by the offensive output of the VLoZD as he did eventually get ground off by Fulminators who just tanked him (there were some wonky dice, but the dragon is so swingy it wasn't that unlikely a result). I am contemplating the Legion of Blood instead? Extra attacks on the VLoZD sounds great, especially getting an extra crack at the rend -2 maw attacks and with my doubles partner possibly bringing the Celestant Prime, Blood could get a nice -4 Bravery bomb going with the skeles. There's nothing quite like the wristbands to protect the VLoZD but the reroll 1s to save item is quite nice, as is -1 to hit in combat.

What do people think, or is sticking with Sacrement for that sweet sweet bonus to cast the best way to go?

[Amradiel]

The more I look in the battletome, the more I fall in love with Legion of Night army. Like: 

Mannfred 

Necromancer 

Flying vamp

40 Skeletons 

10 Skeletons 

10 Skeletons 

10 Dire wolves 

Corpse cart 

3 Vargheists 

3 Vargheists 

2 Morghast archai 

[warhammernerd]

Sorry for repeat postings, still not got a definitive on this though.

Wondering about gravesite healed model placement, and potential daisy chaining away from parent unit. 

As an example, a unit of 10 skeletons heals back 11 models, these could feasibly be strung out almost 20”.  When placing these, the rules seem to imply these are all placed simultaneously however you like.

Question is, does this mean placing the first within 1” coherency, and the next within 1” of the last placed model and so on. Or, should all models be placed simultaneously WITHIN coherency is unit? Do you heal the total amount and place them all together, or do you heal and place models in batches per grave site?

Aside from this looking and feeling a little wrong, on account that the returned models could end up being placed outside of the gravesites 9” bubble, using this to pin another unit into combat feels a bit gamey? No?

Its reminding me of some cheeky 8th ed jank where you could boomerang units across the board with movement shenanigans. Also, feels like the only account of this kinda thing in AoS currently. Getting an understandable amount of pushback in club because of it.

 

[Undeadly]

Just woke up, but heres an update on my tourny situation; I walked away as "Best General", meaning I actually won the most amount of points! With two Major victories and a draw, I did pretty darn well.

[AverageBoss]

16 hours ago, warhammernerd said:

Sorry for repeat postings, still not got a definitive on this though.

Wondering about gravesite healed model placement, and potential daisy chaining away from parent unit. 

As an example, a unit of 10 skeletons heals back 11 models, these could feasibly be strung out almost 20”.  When placing these, the rules seem to imply these are all placed simultaneously however you like.

Question is, does this mean placing the first within 1” coherency, and the next within 1” of the last placed model and so on. Or, should all models be placed simultaneously WITHIN coherency is unit? Do you heal the total amount and place them all together, or do you heal and place models in batches per grave site?

Aside from this looking and feeling a little wrong, on account that the returned models could end up being placed outside of the gravesites 9” bubble, using this to pin another unit into combat feels a bit gamey? No?

Its reminding me of some cheeky 8th ed jank where you could boomerang units across the board with movement shenanigans. Also, feels like the only account of this kinda thing in AoS currently. Getting an understandable amount of pushback in club because of it.

 

You activate each ability one at a time and resolve them as such. Nowhere in Deathly Invocation or Invigorating aura are any range restrictions mentioned other than "target unit must be within X inches". So as long as a single model from a unit is partially within range, they can be targeted and restored models are simply placed in coherency. Demons with banners have been doing this for awhile, just not on this scale. And even prior to LoN undead did this with their in unit banners.

[Betelgeuse]

23 hours ago, warhammernerd said:

Sorry for repeat postings, still not got a definitive on this though.

Wondering about gravesite healed model placement, and potential daisy chaining away from parent unit. 

As an example, a unit of 10 skeletons heals back 11 models, these could feasibly be strung out almost 20”.  When placing these, the rules seem to imply these are all placed simultaneously however you like.

Question is, does this mean placing the first within 1” coherency, and the next within 1” of the last placed model and so on. Or, should all models be placed simultaneously WITHIN coherency is unit? Do you heal the total amount and place them all together, or do you heal and place models in batches per grave site?

Aside from this looking and feeling a little wrong, on account that the returned models could end up being placed outside of the gravesites 9” bubble, using this to pin another unit into combat feels a bit gamey? No?

Its reminding me of some cheeky 8th ed jank where you could boomerang units across the board with movement shenanigans. Also, feels like the only account of this kinda thing in AoS currently. Getting an understandable amount of pushback in club because of it.

 

Nothing illegal with this. you could even leave a long conga line back to a grave site or hero and when you take casualties you remove them all, except the last guy (don't need to remove in coherency) and then when that grave site or hero brings skellies back you can add them back up at the front line. (you could do the same thing with objectives).

[warhammernerd]

Counter argument is, that you heal in batches with grave sites and that each batch should all be placed simultaneously within 1” of parent unit. Which massively cuts down the distance you can string.

So the q is. Are the models all placed at same time, or one after the other?

Makes a huge diff in healing. If all rolls are done separately, your placed models would creep out incrementally in 1” steps. As opposed to placing 12 models in a line one after the other. BIG difference.

[AverageBoss]

4 hours ago, warhammernerd said:

Counter argument is, that you heal in batches with grave sites and that each batch should all be placed simultaneously within 1” of parent unit. Which massively cuts down the distance you can string.

So the q is. Are the models all placed at same time, or one after the other?

Makes a huge diff in healing. If all rolls are done separately, your placed models would creep out incrementally in 1” steps. As opposed to placing 12 models in a line one after the other. BIG difference.

You must fully resolve each Grave Site and Deathly Invocation 1 at a time before moving onto the next. They are each separate abilities that trigger at the same time, but they are still separate abilities. This is important for several reasons (such as you cannot both heal wounds AND bring back models on the same die). If a unit is in range of 4 Graves and 3 characters, you will resolve each of those 7 abilities 1 at a time.

Just as with everything else in the game that places models or units at the table at any time, they would be placed 1 at a time in coherency, limited by any specialized range restrictions listed in the ability (none in this case). Otherwise, many abilities in the game (including popping in full units from Grave Sites, summoning spells, teleportation abilities, etc) simply would not function.

[Undeadly]

Alright, so after playing through a tournament, here's a few things:

To put it bluntly, LoN is an army that really dictates how the battle will be fought. It forces the enemy to adapt to you, not the other way around. With Grave Sites and speedy heros, LoN can QUICKLY take control of the board, and can make it a uphill battle to reclaim it. Out of the 3 games in the Tournament, I was able to capture most objectives on turn 1 thanks to a mixture of Arkhan and my VLoZD zooming about. For slower armies, that can really be painful, as that will almost certainly lock down those objectives for a good majority of the game. It also becomes a guessing game of force projection, as the enemy must calculate how much they are willing to put towards killing a unit of 40 skeletons. This can be problematic, as throwing too much at them will leave units out of posistion and just flaffing then about. Too little, and the Skeletons pop right back up.

Turn 1 Charges are now a possibility, and an effective one at that. Deepstriking in a unit of Black Knights and Dire Wolves can be devastating if the enemy doesn't expect it, and can cripple or wipe key units. I was able to cripple a Chaos Dwarf on Flying Bull and nuke a unit of Kurnoths with a good charge. 

Arkhan is honestly a good partner to a VLoZD, especially in LoS. Almost every game I was in, people focused their attacks all on Arkhan. When coupled with the Shroud of Shadows Artifact on the VL, he became a incredibly unpopular choice to attack with shootong, and was left almost entirely free to roam about and destroy. Meanwhile, Out of the 5 times CoY went off during the game, only twice did it actually work and progress past the 6's. Almost killing a Bastilidon, and outright slaughtering a Spirit of Durthu. Amarthine Orb, however, did far more damage to my Skeleton units, and for the most part, I had low damage rolls on the enemy.

The spells from death we're meh to good. I had FV and OD on them, and two casting due to my Battalion. While the Battalion was useful, I felt like a Balewind would have been better. However, I was able to get OD off using Arkhan most of the time, so it was decent enough. When they did go off though, the enemy feels it. With OD and a 9+ FV, I completely neutered a 10 man squad of Cold Ones. So while they are good spells, just don't rely on them. Amarthine pinions were lovely though, and almost always went off, giving my VLoZD crazy speed, amd letting him rip his way through plenty of units. At the end of the tournament, he had eaten:

3 Units of Chaos Dwarves

1 Units of Skinks

1 Unit of Skink Handlers/w Salamander

1 Unit of Kurnoths

2 Units of Dryads

 

Shout out to AoS players in Austin, btw! A lot of lovely folks and sone great players!

 

 

[RuneBrush]

2 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

You must fully resolve each Grave Site and Deathly Invocation 1 at a time before moving onto the next. They are each separate abilities that trigger at the same time, but they are still separate abilities. This is important for several reasons (such as you cannot both heal wounds AND bring back models on the same die). If a unit is in range of 4 Graves and 3 characters, you will resolve each of those 7 abilities 1 at a time.

Just as with everything else in the game that places models or units at the table at any time, they would be placed 1 at a time in coherency, limited by any specialized range restrictions listed in the ability (none in this case). Otherwise, many abilities in the game (including popping in full units from Grave Sites, summoning spells, teleportation abilities, etc) simply would not function.

Actually it's more fundamental than that - Gravesites must be resolved at the Start of the Hero Phase and Deathly Invocation during the Hero Phase.

There's nothing stopping you rolling multiple Deathly Invocation's on units with 1 wound all at the same time for speed.

[AverageBoss]

35 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

Actually it's more fundamental than that - Gravesites must be resolved at the Start of the Hero Phase and Deathly Invocation during the Hero Phase.

There's nothing stopping you rolling multiple Deathly Invocation's on units with 1 wound all at the same time for speed.

Unless there are floating wounds on the unit, then they should be done one at a time.

[RuneBrush]

4 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Unless there are floating wounds on the unit, then they should be done one at a time.

Agreed (it's why I said units with 1 wound).  On multi-wound units which have sustained damage, you can roll until they're all healed and then you can roll the rest in one.  

[Grimnaud]

4 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

Actually it's more fundamental than that - Gravesites must be resolved at the Start of the Hero Phase and Deathly Invocation during the Hero Phase.

There's nothing stopping you rolling multiple Deathly Invocation's on units with 1 wound all at the same time for speed.

Unless there’s something wrong with my app Deathly Invocation happens at the beginning of the hero phase as well.

[Sception]

yeah, its all start of phase.  so you can't use it to heal self inflicted hero phase wounds, like sacrificial terrain or orbs blasted through your own lines ti catch more enemy units.

[RuneBrush]

10 hours ago, Grimnaud said:

Unless there’s something wrong with my app Deathly Invocation happens at the beginning of the hero phase as well.

7 hours ago, Sception said:

yeah, its all start of phase.  so you can't use it to heal self inflicted hero phase wounds, like sacrificial terrain or orbs blasted through your own lines ti catch more enemy units.

My bad - I was thinking of the Grand Host Legions Innumerable ability (which is anywhen in the Hero phase)!

[RaritanAnon]

So I got my flaming skulls in the mail. How do you think they look so far? They're a bit weedier than the normal skulls. I'm not sure how I feel about them right now. 

[Amradiel]

Flying Vampires. Do they need wings?  I thinking about which model to buy. Sure I like the one with one wing but it looks strange with one wing and a sword in the other. The model that used to be Vlad is so much better, and Isabella is great too.

[Undeadly]

9 hours ago, RaritanAnon said:

So I got my flaming skulls in the mail. How do you think they look so far? They're a bit weedier than the normal skulls. I'm not sure how I feel about them right now. 

They look pretty good to me! If you do you whole army with those skulls, I don't think anyone will notice.

For myself, I've been converting a bunch of Skeletons from the races of other factions, including Skaven, Dark and Light elves.

 

[smucreo]

Hey guys, I've got a game this Friday and since I had free time today I've been theorycrafting lists using what I've got right now. I wanted to try out Legion of Blood, how does this look? It's for a 1500 points game.

Neferata (400)

- Amethystine Pinions

Necromancer (110)

- Overwhelming Dread

- The artifact that gives you rerolls on 1s to save/The one that lets you dispell on a 2+ once per game

-----------

5 x Blood Knights (260)

5 x Blood Knights (260)

2 x Bat Swarm (80)

20 x Skeleton Warriors w/ Blades (160)

5 x Dire Wolves (60)

5 x Dire Wolves (60)

----------

Balewind (100)

Total : 1490

I realize 20 skellies are a bit of an odd choice, but I had enough points leftover to include 10 more skellies and not much else, and since I didn't want to further increase my drops I decided to bolster one of my battlelines. What do you think? Maybe I've gone to hard on the debuffs to hit? Do I need a bigger hammer or anvil? For the 2000 points variation I'd include a vamp lord on a zombie dragon and change the doggies for 10 skeletons each.

[RaritanAnon]

9 hours ago, Undeadly said:

They look pretty good to me! If you do you whole army with those skulls, I don't think anyone will notice.

For myself, I've been converting a bunch of Skeletons from the races of other factions, including Skaven, Dark and Light elves.

 

Yeah I planned to use them alongside the other ones, not the whole squad of skeletons. Everyone has different sized skulls too, yknow. They'll probably look better when painted, too. 

[CanHammer-darren]

I’m thiking

 

nagash

wight king

120 skeletons

harbingers

 

profit

4 attack skeletons? Yes please. 

[AverageBoss]

3 hours ago, CanHammer-darren said:

I’m thiking

 

nagash

wight king

120 skeletons

harbingers

 

profit

4 attack skeletons? Yes please. 

Nagash must be your general if you are using him in Grand Host. So you don't get the WKs command ability.

Vampire Lord is better anyways, as he can give +1 attack to any DEATH unit (not just bonerattle), can target an extra unit with DM, and brings magic to the table. Throw in Lord of Nagashizzar for skeletons with up to 5 attacks.

[CanHammer-darren]

Good call. Vampire lord is better

[RaritanAnon]

So I've just about got everything in my army built (40 skeletons, 10 grave guard, 2 necromancers and vampire) and am considering picking up a Barrow Lords box to add to my Blood Queen box and make my 1000pt Deathrattle army complete.

 Does this list look fun for someone new to AoS? A good mix of stuff and decent competitive strength? I do intend on running into Deathmarch, later on, with 10-15 knights and more skeletons. It sounds rad as hell. 

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash
Vampire Lord (140)
- General
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Trait: Lord of Nagashizzar 
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Ossific Diadem 
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
15 x Grave Guard (240)
- Great Wight Blades
5 x Black Knights (120)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 80