What could the next faction be?

[AthlorianStoners]

16 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Well I kind of spoiled it for you... sorry, but here it is:

edit: nope, can't find it on the MP site... I swear I'm not making it up, there was a story all about a troll eating a dead giant on  a wet battlefield, then a waaaaaaghhh! starts and the grots are super excited and bundle through a realmgate, sucking the troll through with them. 

It was inspiring. 

TELL ME I'M NOT CRAZY, GUYS! AM I MYSELF SEEING PORTENTS IN MY DREAMS?

https://malignportents.com/story/the-paradise-below/ 

i think I found it!

Edit: Nm that’s not it  

[Sheriff]

1 minute ago, AthlorianStoners said:

https://malignportents.com/story/the-paradise-below/ 

i think I found it!

This is a different (better) story, that I desperately want a sequel to. I was waiting for the squigs/spiders/gargants to show up and turn the tide of battle... 

[AthlorianStoners]

2 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

This is a different (better) story, that I desperately want a sequel to. I was waiting for the squigs/spiders/gargants to show up and turn the tide of battle... 

Yeah this was a doozy. 

Anyways on topic, I’d love to see an all new faction at some point. Destruction are limited really in what they go with atm and will eventually hit a wall in what they can expand. 

[Sheriff]

13 minutes ago, AthlorianStoners said:

https://malignportents.com/story/the-paradise-below/ 

i think I found it!

Edit: Nm that’s not it  

Someone found it - 

 

[Skabnoze]

6 hours ago, Sheriff said:

The spiderfang are the easy solution, as they just need to split up the existing kits into more scrolls (flinger!), maybe add some cool new web mechanics like slowing debuffs on enemies. Troggoths are easily fixed with points and some sort of hero interaction / synergy - handbook could do that maybe. 

Moonclan are fine as they are imho as thye have plenty of diverse units, they just suck due to points and rules - another handbook problem. 

A grot soup tome would solve the overall problems of AOS being 2-tier: tome armies stomping non-tome armies. We just need a little-waaaagh spell list, battalions (still salty they took away our tools without replacing them), and allegiance abilities. 

 

I agree with this.  However, I think the issue that GW is looking at is less of a rules issue (that is simple to address really) and more from a production logistics point of view.  It is well known that creating all new sprues for GW is still a heavy up front cost in capital.  And it is fairly well known that GW currently has capacity issues in regards to how much they can produce - and that they are still trying to solve that with new production facilities.  They also recall and repackage old products (at least from their own supply chain).

On top of that, they are supporting multiple games and probably spread fairly thin.  They have to keep releasing new things for 40k, Age of Sigmar, and they also seem to want to expand their range by bringing back old skirmish games and trying new business models for selling games such as with Shadespire (new business model for them - Fantasy Flight has been blazing that trail for a long time now).  This means that most likely they have to be careful about how they decide to structure their new releases.  I think they also don't want to drive off older players any more than they already did (and probably want to try to bring some back) while the game is really starting to find a solid footing.

I am sure they have tons of ideas in the rules, fluff, and art design departments for what directions they would like to go with most of the old races and tons of ideas for new stuff.  The issue at hand is most likely where they get the most bang for their buck with each new released box.  I am sure that they also want to make an effort to phase out the resin from their non-Forgeworld supply chain entirely.

I think we will see entirely new races as we go, but I also think that they will probably try to repurpose and reimagine as much of the existing stuff as they can.  In regards to the 2-tier issue you bring up, I think they can solve much of that by expanding the format for the General's Handbook.  The 2017 version had a lot of Allegiances and it included Magic Items and General Command abilities.  They also showed a willingness to adjust a warscroll in it.  If they increase the amount of Warscrolls that they tweak in the 2018 book - add more Allegiance abilities for sub-factions, and then expand the concept to also include spell lists - then I think they can throw a bone to the older factions that they won't get around to for a while.

That would work well for Moonclan.  I would love to see them become a full Age of Sigmar faction with a Battletome and a newly revamped model range since Greenskins and especially Night Goblins have been near to my heart since the mid 90s.  But if they are wiling to leave the range heavily resin as it is now, then honestly all they really need is some point tweaks, allegiance abilities, a new spell list, and some magic items.  Spiderfang need more models.  They have a bit of room to work with by expanding out the Arachnarok, but they have little wiggle room with the current cavalry - since those are just repackaged mono-pose sculpts from the Battle For Skulls Pass starter box.  They would need at least one more unit of some sort (probably a dual kit) and some more heroes.

[Sheriff]

11 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

Spiderfang need more models.  They have a bit of room to work with by expanding out the Arachnarok, but they have little wiggle room with the current cavalry - since those are just repackaged mono-pose sculpts from the Battle For Skulls Pass starter box.  They would need at least one more unit of some sort (probably a dual kit) and some more heroes.

Yes, but remember these dudes exist and are currently not in Spiderfang for some reason (much like Mistweaver has been very lonely for a while...) - what if the models from that pack were always planned to be part of new or expanded factions?

 

 

[Skabnoze]

That is a fair point, although those are as much (if not more) Moonclan than Spiderfang.  With Spiderfang I think it will depend on if they want to expand them with models on foot - or if they want to have all of the range mounted on Spiders whenever (or if) they expand them into a full faction.  If they put them on foot then they can pull the shaman out of the Arachnarok into his own unit on foot - same way that they did with the Witch Elf heroes from the Cauldron.  But, that army already had existing models mainly as standard infantry.

I would love to see them bring back the old-school Forest Goblins - since I have a ton.  But they also seem keen on giving a strong identity to the factions that they revamp and an all spider cavalry force seems like a very strong theme to me - so I could see them going in that direction.  

I could see them adding the models shown above into Moonclan as some sort of goblins that ate some weird fungus that caused them to mutate.  But, it also feels like something that is not necessary in Moonclan.

[Vasshpit]

17 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

 

 

 

Just my one consumers opinion but these guys were just too silly for me and I'm a die hard orc, goblins, trolls  fan...

Would of much preferred got spider centaurs like in gremlins 2.

[Skabnoze]

2 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

Just my one consumers opinion but these guys were just too silly for me and I'm a die hard orc, goblins, trolls  fan...

Would of much preferred got spider centaurs like in gremlins 2.

If I were to add new units to Spiderfang, then despite my absolute love for old forest goblin foot infantry I would probably make the army fully mounted and create a tier of spider cavalry in between the base unit and the Arachnarok.  Something more like Goregruntas or Mournfang size Spider Cavalry.  They already have that size with the boss on gigantic spider and if they make a unit box for those then they could even add some heros into the kit such as the Boss on Giant Spider and a Shaman.   They could create 2 units - one oriented for melee with one or two spear wielding goblin riders and another designed for ranged combat (which seems to be how they approach some of the dual kits anymore) with riders with javelins or bows (or maybe a bigger ballista sort of thing) and spiders that spit webs or corrosive goo.

I would probably also replace the current spider infantry kit.  While it has aged well, the mounts are showing their age and the kit itself is very limited since the riders are all 1-part sculpts.  They could rework it so that it would create 2 units.  But, the issue I see there is that it would require them to change the Start Collecting box - which they might not want to do.  The same thing goes for changing anything with the Arachnarok kit such as making a special character version (although they could do that by adding a new sprue into the box.

[Sheriff]

13 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

That is a fair point, although those are as much (if not more) Moonclan than Spiderfang. 

I could see them adding the models shown above into Moonclan as some sort of goblins that ate some weird fungus that caused them to mutate.  

They are 8-legged grots. Spider grots. Spiderfang Grots. 

[Sheriff]

20 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

If I were to add new units to Spiderfang, then despite my absolute love for old forest goblin foot infantry I would probably make the army fully mounted and create a tier of spider cavalry in between the base unit and the Arachnarok.  Something more like Goregruntas or Mournfang size Spider Cavalry.  They already have that size with the boss on gigantic spider and if they make a unit box for those then they could even add some heros into the kit such as the Boss on Giant Spider and a Shaman.   They could create 2 units - one oriented for melee with one or two spear wielding goblin riders and another designed for ranged combat (which seems to be how they approach some of the dual kits anymore) with riders with javelins or bows (or maybe a bigger ballista sort of thing) and spiders that spit webs or corrosive goo.

I would probably also replace the current spider infantry kit.  While it has aged well, the mounts are showing their age and the kit itself is very limited since the riders are all 1-part sculpts.  They could rework it so that it would create 2 units.  But, the issue I see there is that it would require them to change the Start Collecting box - which they might not want to do.  The same thing goes for changing anything with the Arachnarok kit such as making a special character version (although they could do that by adding a new sprue into the box.

Its very doable.

The updated Spiderfang faction would then have the following units without needing to invent any new scuplts:

• Arachnarok naked - cheaper points, just a spider that chomps stuff for 200 points or so (looks a bit barren so I don't personally like this idea)
• Arachnarok with shaman - as is (wonderful wonderful unit)
• Arachnarok with flinger - no brainer, easy new scroll, or just improve the current scroll to make it worth 280 points. 
• Spider riders - as is, decent unit
• Spider grots from Silver Tower - add Spiderfang keyword to existing scroll, or make new scroll
• Shaman on foot - new scroll, arachnarok model, cheap points (80 ish)
• Spiderfang warboss on giant spider - as is (great unit)
• Flinger on foot (no spider)

A 7-unit faction is way better than a 3-unit faction, and then could add spell lists and allegiance abilities and battalions etc - it could easily be a tome like DoK, with or without new models. 

[Skabnoze]

But they are also hooded and decked out in a lot of moon symbols.  And on top of that, they have metal weapons.  The entire current range of Spiderfang is armed with weapons created from forest materials such as wood, flint, and spider parts. 

That does not mean that they won't change the theme.  Or, they might mix Moonclan and Spiderfang together (I like them distinct myself) since Moonclan could thematically fit deep in dark fungus-filled forests and Spiders  can thematically fit into caverns.  There is potential overlap there that they could tap into.  

Those models seem to be a hybrid of both since they are 8-legged as you point out and they also have an insectoid pair of limbs which I did not previously notice.

[Skabnoze]

6 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Its very doable.

The updated Spiderfang faction would then have the following units without needing to invent any new scuplts:

• Arachnarok naked - cheaper points, just a spider that chomps stuff for 200 points or so (looks a bit barren so I don't personally like this idea)
• Arachnarok with shaman - as is (wonderful wonderful unit)
• Arachnarok with flinger - no brainer, easy new scroll, or just improve the current scroll to make it worth 280 points. 
• Spider riders - as is, decent unit
• Spider grots from Silver Tower - add Spiderfang keyword to existing scroll, or make new scroll
• Shaman on foot - new scroll, arachnarok model, cheap points (80 ish)
• Spiderfang warboss on giant spider - as is (great unit)

A 6-unit faction is way better than a 3-unit faction, and then could add spell lists and allegiance abilities and battalions etc - it could easily be a tome like DoK, with or without new models. 

They could also put the flinger as an artillery choice on foot.  The way the model assembles means you could put it on it's own base and it has loading crew in the box.  Plenty of people in the past used the Flinger on it's own as a rock lobber.  All they would need to do is make a scroll entry for it and provide a base.

 

[Sheriff]

I'd be delighted to see both moonclan and spiderfang in a single tome, perhaps like the Death soup book which then allows you to give an allegiance theme accordingly, e.g. a mix of spiders and squigs in your army, but with squig bonuses (or whatever).  They could build out the Gitmob to be the mechanical-themed grots as a third part of that book.

But I am of course hugely biased given my army flavour...

[Skabnoze]

I think Gitmob will probably be one of the last to be addressed.  Historically common goblins have been one of the least popular options as a force in the Orc & Goblin books throughout the years.  People liked the artillery, because they were useful, but few people ever really invested into the actual goblins themselves.  I think part of that was due to the attention GW always paid to Night Goblins, but also because GW never really pushed common goblins into a coherent theme.  You saw the odd common goblin army here and there, but it was one of the more rare armies of any faction - and in a lot of cases people heavily emphasized wolf-rider cavalry.  Goblins also were hard in almost every edition to make work on their own as they were originally developed as a supplement to the Orcs and little effort was made in both rules and models for them to stand on their own.

The only theme they really started to get with common goblins was the Mongol/Hun theme that began with the Wolf Riders and had a bit of with the last plastic infantry set.  If they rework Gitmob grots I think they would move the whole army into that direction.

[CDM]

I would like to see a grot soup and a moon clan battletome which I think are good to go now and then an expanded spider fang faction later. (Spiderweb glob thrower that explodes into spider swarms!?!?)

 

Alternatively could they move around gitmob stuff to go with moon clan and spider fang? Which way would the units go? because that above army looks great! And 2 grot battletomes seems enough especially if we want grot sky pirates!

 

[CDM]

2 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

I think Gitmob will probably be one of the last to be addressed.  Historically common goblins have been one of the least popular options as a force in the Orc & Goblin books throughout the years.  People liked the artillery, because they were useful, but few people ever really invested into the actual goblins themselves.  I think part of that was due to the attention GW always paid to Night Goblins, but also because GW never really pushed common goblins into a coherent theme.  You saw the odd common goblin army here and there, but it was one of the more rare armies of any faction - and in a lot of cases people heavily emphasized wolf-rider cavalry.

The only theme they really started to get with common goblins was the Mongol/Hun theme that began with the Wolf Riders and had a bit of with the last plastic infantry set.  If they rework Gitmob grots I think they would move the whole army into that direction.

I always liked the Wolf stuff but do feel that it's a bit dated now. I think the artillery works well in just about any greenskin factions 

 

Sorry about the double post I thought I tried to edit the first!

[Skabnoze]

2 minutes ago, CDM said:

I would like to see a grot soup and a moon clan battletome which I think are good to go now and then an expanded spider fang faction later. (Spiderweb glob thrower that explodes into spider swarms!?!?)

 

Alternatively could they move around gitmob stuff to go with moon clan and spider fang? Which way would the units go? because that above army looks great! And 2 grot battletomes seems enough especially if we want grot sky pirates!

 

I don't think you can really separate Gitmob from Wolf cavalry.  That has been their main thing for a long time, and it was the only theme that GW ever invested into for them.  Nobody else in the Fantasy range or current Age of Sigmar range emphasizes Wolves - and GW has a fair bit of experience sculpting wolves both big and small due to how they have evolved the Space Wolves over the last few years.  My gut feeling (which could very well be wrong) is that the prime direction to move Gitmob is with the classic Goblin Wolfrider theme.

[Skabnoze]

4 minutes ago, CDM said:

I always liked the Wolf stuff but do feel that it's a bit dated now. I think the artillery works well in just about any greenskin factions 

 

Sorry about the double post I thought I tried to edit the first!

I would not be surprised to see the classic artillery get absorbed into whatever the common orc Greenskins faction becomes.

You are right, the Wolf models are extremely dated.  But look at what they have done in the Space Wolf range.  They could repurpose the stand-alone wolf unit and put new riders onto them.  GW now knows how to do wolves well.

Also, I think it is worth considering that each force that GW has released in Age of Sigmar so far leans on a very strong visual theme.  They could do a lot with the Mongol/Hun theme that common goblins were moving towards.  The other option would be to simply drop Gitmob entirely and have people simply use them as alternate models for other Goblins.  Moonclan has the goblin infantry blocks, heroes on foot, and Spiderfang has the goblin cavalry.  They would simply need to find a home for the Warmachines and they could sunset the whole thing if they wanted to.

[Malakree]

29 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

I'd be delighted to see both moonclan and spiderfang in a single tome, perhaps like the Death soup book which then allows you to give an allegiance theme accordingly, e.g. a mix of spiders and squigs in your army, but with squig bonuses (or whatever).  They could build out the Gitmob to be the mechanical-themed grots as a third part of that book.

But I am of course hugely biased given my army flavour...

Honestly I think it needs to be an Orruk/Grot combo tome combine with new models/updates for all the grots and the base greenskinz faction. A rules tune up for Ironjawz as part of it would be amazing.

Something like "The Great Waaagh!" we could also have a Gor'Drak themed force like the nagash one which uses all the green stuff.

[CDM]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

Honestly I think it needs to be an Orruk/Grot combo tome combine with new models/updates for all the grots and the base greenskinz faction. A rules tune up for Ironjawz as part of it would be amazing.

Something like "The Great Waaagh!" we could also have a Gor'Drak themed force like the nagash one which uses all the green stuff.

I think death needed that as all of their model line is based on 1/2 factions.

I would like a Waaaagh battletome that incorporates greenskinz,gitmob, Maneater,Firebellys, gargants, trolls. Basically everything that won't get a battletome of their own. Leave ironjawz, BCRs, bonespliterz, gutbusters,moon clan and spiderfang out as they either have a battletome or have a good chance at one.

[AthlorianStoners]

1 hour ago, CDM said:

I think death needed that as all of their model line is based on 1/2 factions.

I would like a Waaaagh battletome that incorporates greenskinz,gitmob, Maneater,Firebellys, gargants, trolls. Basically everything that won't get a battletome of their own. Leave ironjawz, BCRs, bonespliterz, gutbusters,moon clan and spiderfang out as they either have a battletome or have a good chance at one.

Yeah I agree with this. 

[rattila]

I would love To see a Maneaters/ mercenary ogors battletome. I'll be sad to see them just in a waagh battletome. 

[Skabnoze]

I don't feel like they will do that though, because I get the impression that they are going to retire a lot of the things eventually that they do not roll into a full battletome.  There is only a small handful of resin items that you can find under the Legions of Nagash section of the GW website (if you exclude the characters - most of which are old special characters that have been swapped to generic types).  It is pretty much just the blood knight cavalry, giant bats, black coach, vampires, a wight lord, necromancers.  I would not at all be surprised to see those entries moved over to plastic (the Black Coach if nothing else).

While the  greenskinz, gitmob, Maneater, Firebellys, and troll ranges all have a whole lot of resin.  I would be all for a book like that, but I don't think they want to prolong keeping those around in the current incarnation by making a book for them.  I hope that I am wrong though.

[Skabnoze]

10 minutes ago, rattila said:

I would love To see a Maneaters/ mercenary ogors battletome. I'll be sad to see them just in a waagh battletome. 

That is one faction I was really surprised was split out into its own section rather than just included with Gutbusters.  I could see the Firebellies as it seems like something they could expand on.  But Maneaters were really just GW being silly for most of the models and does not seem like something that conforms to the current direction they are going with Age of Sigmar.