Malign Portents

[Turragor]

31 minutes ago, Malakree said:

It's more that people(or just me?) don't want to see yet more spacemarines.

Personally I think that this concept has to be fought!

It's the number 1 critique given by those who know nothing of AoS who want to bash it (dumb sigmarines). It is also a bit modern and almost short sighted.

long post moved to new thread click here

 

NB/ I moved my post, this is so not malign portent related haha sorry

[shinros]

15 hours ago, Malakree said:

It's more that people(or just me?) don't want to see yet more spacemarines. Stormcast are already incredibly close to it and having them in death would just be flogging an (un)dead horse.

Each of the four factions does have an identity and a general aesthetic to them, mixing them just waters everything down. There are so many ways to expand on the themes that death already has built in that pirating the order ones is not just lazy but frustrating. 

Development of the Morghast themes, more deathrattle, deadwalkers shambling hordes, the vampiric legions and their thralls or, as they seem to be doing, nighthaunt etherals. Each of those is so much more interesting than stormcast.

So yeah, hopefully no death based stormcast. Would be a complete waste of so many amazing themes.

Yup agreed death has so many things that could be expanded on I mean hell we don't even have a plastic vampire hero yet! GW can create gothic liches and all host of other things look at all the people spamming skeletor, spooky and funny images on facebook. To me reading the lore nagash wants the souls of marked chaos and stormcast souls because he believes they belong to him.  I mean GW can do death casts but going by Facebook and almost every other social media out thre people don't want that. I don't want that. I would take a revived and redsigned tomb kings over death cast.

I don't want the lore dominated by super elite armies in heavy plate slapping each other because that's what happened in 40k. Look at tzeentch they changed them from Norse heavy armoured wizards to a cabal. As been said deathcasts I feel would water it down we already have our form of powering up mortals in death it's called becoming a Wight,necromancer or vampire. Chaos has the whole dark god shitick that is a dark mirror to how sigmar chooses a person to become stormcast. There is already tragedy there that they keep fighting even though they lose their memories and personality until they become lighting robots.

[Turragor]

1 minute ago, shinros said:

Chaos has the whole dark god shitick that is a dark mirror to how sigmar chooses a person to become stormcast.

I know what you are getting at but I feel that undeath is the dark mirror. It can mirror order because it can be as structured but in a twisted form.

Chaos is a force of wild creation with its original source in the 4 main 'sins' of living beings.

I guess, frankly, Chaos, death and destruction are always going to be a bit more nuanced than a 3-way categorisation allows.

[shinros]

3 minutes ago, Turragor said:

I know what you are getting at but I feel that undeath is the dark mirror. It can mirror order because it can be as structured but in a twisted form.

Chaos is a force of wild creation with its original source in the 4 main 'sins' of living beings.

I guess, frankly, Chaos, death and destruction are always going to be a bit more nuanced than a 3-way categorisation allows.

But being a stormcast is overcoming those sins and giving yourself to a cause that will evetuanlly tear away who you are. To be honest stormcast cover a great amount of the narrative already they don't need more in my opinion. Don't get me wrong I like stormcast but I think dipping them in too many places would water them down its like why they can't fall to chaos it makes them more unique. I like that since because of that they face other problems than corruption and how they face those problems make them more human.

[stratigo]

I'd love to see a human death faction. Led by vampires.

 

But I think everyone is overlooking deathrattle.

[Turragor]

19 minutes ago, shinros said:

But being a stormcast is overcoming those sins and giving yourself to a cause that will evetuanlly tear away who you are. To be honest stormcast cover a great amount of the narrative already they don't need more in my opinion. Don't get me wrong I like stormcast but I think dipping them in too many places would water them down its like why they can't fall to chaos it makes them more unique. I like that since because of that they face other problems than corruption and how they face those problems make them more human.

I get where you are coming from. I think there will just be (for a while longer) a split in opinion between those who don't mind a franchise built (like 40k) on the main story of a single faction and those who want equal place for all the races and subfactions of the realms.

[NurglesFirstChosen]

Based on the design of the guard from shadespire, I very much doubt this will be a wholesale shift to deathcasts. Death will retain ranks of skeles n zombies etc so people shouldn’t panic. 

What I do believe however is that we may see a couple of champions of nagash who are fallen stormcast - promised death by nagash in return for some time in service against sigmar. Or maybe even stormcast vampires. I wouldn’t be surprised if nagash siphons some of the essence of reforging to power large beasts/artillery/vehicles and super morghasts also. 

 

[NurglesFirstChosen]

In addition, Father Nurgle grows extremely unhappy with the growth in nagashs power. Eternal death is stagnation and a loss of the cycles of life that bring Nurgle so much joy. So, Nurgle will send forth his legions - hordes of pestigors and beasts of Nurgle. These will be joined by the unseen citizens from the dark corners of the garden, yet to step into the mortal realms. 

[Tonhel]

1 hour ago, shinros said:

Yup agreed death has so many things that could be expanded on I mean hell we don't even have a plastic vampire hero yet! GW can create gothic liches and all host of other things look at all the people spamming skeletor, spooky and funny images on facebook. To me reading the lore nagash wants the souls of marked chaos and stormcast souls because he believes they belong to him.  I mean GW can do death casts but going by Facebook and almost every other social media out thre people don't want that. I don't want that. I would take a revived and resigned tomb kings over death cast.

I don't want the lore dominated by super elite armies in heavy plate slapping each other because that's what happened in 40k. Look at tzeentch they changed them from Norse heavy armoured wizards to a cabal. As been said deathcasts I feel would water it down we already have our form of powering up mortals in death it's called becoming a Wight,necromancer or vampire. Chaos has the whole dark god shitick that is a dark mirror to how sigmar chooses a person to become stormcast. There is already tragedy there that they keep fighting even though they lose their memories and personality until they become lighting robots.

I think it is inevitable that Stormcast will  corrupt to Chaos or Death. I find it an interesting idea, even when it's already done with 40k. The loudest comments about what people don't want on social media are in most cases a very loud and vocal minority.

So long the miniatures are great, I certainly would welcome deathcast miniatures, but ofcourse I would also be very happy with a heavly armoured wight or vampire unit in plastic. 

[Menkeroth]

It's highly frustrating and horrible at once to see so many followers of the copypasting idea. How dull and uncreative. You have 40k for that, leave AoS alone and let it go other ways instead of mass copypasting the same idea over and over.

[Tonhel]

36 minutes ago, Menkeroth said:

It's highly frustrating and horrible at once to see so many followers of the copypasting idea. How dull and uncreative. You have 40k for that, leave AoS alone and let it go other ways instead of mass copypasting the same idea over and over.

What is dull and creative is for each hobbyist different. 

I wouldn't mind a corrupted or death version of Stormcasts.

Anyway a plastic heavly armoured vampire of Wight Kingesque unit would also be perfect.

 

[Menkeroth]

1 minute ago, Tonhel said:

What is dull and creative is for each hobbyist different. 

 

In fact no, because copypast can not be creative and exciting by any means. Just be definition. And we have already 40k with lots of clones. AoS deserves a better fate than that.

[NurglesFirstChosen]

37 minutes ago, Menkeroth said:

It's highly frustrating and horrible at once to see so many followers of the copypasting idea. How dull and uncreative. You have 40k for that, leave AoS alone and let it go other ways instead of mass copypasting the same idea over and over.

I’m my opinion this story arch (if it occurs) is inevitable as per the duality of the human condition. 

Imagine having your humanity stripped away slowly for eternity. Made to fight in never ending war as a slave. It’s inevitable that some would seek escape of this - a realistic plot development in fact. 

[TheDayman]

I would personally hate to see death/chaos stormcast, lore wise I feel that it would make stomcast completely pointless. Chaos is meant to be the mirror side of order not death. The death faction should retain its own identity without getting 'deathcast'. There's loads of stuff they can do without going down that route: rehashing some of the old tomb kings stuff, mortal followers, heavily armoured wights or even small elite units of possibly 'lesser' vampires or more ethereal troops. We don't need anymore superhuman esque stuff, it gets boring after a while ?

[Tonhel]

24 minutes ago, Menkeroth said:

In fact no, because copypast can not be creative and exciting by any means. Just be definition. And we have already 40k with lots of clones. AoS deserves a better fate than that.

But it can't be a copypaste of 40K, as Stormcast and Space Marines aren't the same at all. As I said before imo it is inevitable that Stormcast eventually will suffer from corruption. The source can either be Chaos or Death, but it will happen and it will not be a bland copy paste of 40K.

I wouldn't mind somekind of death Stormcast / Deathknight. So long it isn't just a stormcast painted black or rusted with a skull.

 

[Menkeroth]

35 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

I would personally hate to see death/chaos stormcast, lore wise I feel that it would make stomcast completely pointless. Chaos is meant to be the mirror side of order not death. The death faction should retain its own identity without getting 'deathcast'. There's loads of stuff they can do without going down that route: rehashing some of the old tomb kings stuff, mortal followers, heavily armoured wights or even small elite units of possibly 'lesser' vampires or more ethereal troops. We don't need anymore superhuman esque stuff, it gets boring after a while ?

Exactly!

35 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

Imagine having your humanity stripped away slowly for eternity. Made to fight in never ending war as a slave. It’s inevitable that some would seek escape of this - a realistic plot development in fact. 

It is avoidable and I hope it will be, because there are countless ways and this you suggest is the most boring and uninspiring.

26 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

But it can't be a copypaste of 40K, as Stormcast and Space Marines aren't the same at all. As I said before imo it is inevitable that Stormcast eventually will suffer from corruption. The source can either be Chaos or Death, but it will happen and it will not be a bland copy paste of 40K.

 

It is the bland copypaste, and it will get worse. I do hope GW is smarter than that because it's dull by all means.  Death is so varied and different that copypasting SC deserves burning all its followers at the stake.

[AthlorianStoners]

Very excited for death stormcasts!

[Spiny Norman]

I say it's something like Mordheim.

The portents are undeniable:

a) Release of Necromunda

b) Release of 2 champions ("The Chaos gods chose Barbarella as their champion..."), who will lead the warbands

c) Release warband focused boardgame

d) Meteor! (shards).

 

Thank me later.

[firebat]

I think on the whole GW does a pretty good job of making stuff that looks cool and when it doesn't I find it's often the paint scheme they've chosen as much as it just looking bad. I also feel to extent this argument is stuck in the past of what scale Fantasy Battle was when the scale of AoS is much bigger. From probably the Ogre Kingdoms initial release onwards monstrous infantry has become a bigger and bigger part of the game to the point where now it's almost the default. For a faction whose entire concept is just reusing what is already out because they can't produce anything new it makes no sense for this scale of troops to be absent from their forces and for them to retain the old legacy scale. The Tzeentch and Khorne forces are all at this larger scale so it doesn't even have to be Death Stormcast or whatever and i'd argue that complaining one heavy armour troop can't exist because another does or is suddenly a stormcast ripoff is a lazy complaint to make and like saying Grave Guard shouldn't exist because Greatswords did. A new class of wights and vampires in the armour style like the deathlords have could be pretty cool.

[AthlorianStoners]

14 minutes ago, xking said:

Death stormcast Is an terrible rumour with no real evidence for it. I don't you should get excited or you will just be disappointed.

Haha I know, thread just seemed to be falling into negativity. 

[Warboss Gorbolg]

If deathcast are basically Stormcast with undead heads then I would certainly be in the disappointed group.  However I also think that it is  unnecessarily pessimistic to assume that this is where GW is heading. 

In the Realmgate series, my recollection is that Nagash is most frustrated with the lack of imagination and creativity of his minions compared to the Stormcast, and as a result Nagash is highly interested in how Sigmar creates the Stormcast.  Nagash could simply have an epiphany via the Stormcast of how to bind souls to him while allowing them to retain greater free will/imagination.  Perhaps Nagash's "version of Stormcast" are along the lines of these souls bound to mini Morghast or whatever.

I think people are interpreting possible deathcast too literally at this time.  There is room IMO for Nagash to learn what he needs by studying Stormcast but then make it into something completely his own.  

[Tonhel]

48 minutes ago, Warboss Gorbolg said:

If deathcast are basically Stormcast with undead heads then I would certainly be in the disappointed group.  However I also think that it is  unnecessarily pessimistic to assume that this is where GW is heading. 

In the Realmgate series, my recollection is that Nagash is most frustrated with the lack of imagination and creativity of his minions compared to the Stormcast, and as a result Nagash is highly interested in how Sigmar creates the Stormcast.  Nagash could simply have an epiphany via the Stormcast of how to bind souls to him while allowing them to retain greater free will/imagination.  Perhaps Nagash's "version of Stormcast" are along the lines of these souls bound to mini Morghast or whatever.

I think people are interpreting possible deathcast too literally at this time.  There is room IMO for Nagash to learn what he needs by studying Stormcast but then make it into something completely his own.  

Exactly! I hope that if there is some version of Deathcast, it isn't just a stormcast miniature with a skeleton head.. . 

Wasn't there last year a big what's next reveal around Christmas?

[Edgecoc]

10 hours ago, NurglesFirstChosen said:

Based on the design of the guard from shadespire, I very much doubt this will be a wholesale shift to deathcasts. Death will retain ranks of skeles n zombies etc so people shouldn’t panic. 

What I do believe however is that we may see a couple of champions of nagash who are fallen stormcast - promised death by nagash in return for some time in service against sigmar. Or maybe even stormcast vampires. I wouldn’t be surprised if nagash siphons some of the essence of reforging to power large beasts/artillery/vehicles and super morghasts also. 

 

I was thinking maybe that’s where the bit of souls the stormcast lose are going too.  I am thinking deathcast may be a thing.

[Killax]

It's interesting how parts of this thread developed to "I don't want dead Stormcast". While I don't feel responsable for that discussion I do want to chime in with a visualisation of what I had in mind when stating something akin to that. To me this "Death Knight" is basically a 2 wound warrior that is larger as usual, fits the standard we expect from Stormcast and Blood Warriors (for example) but basically is engineered in such a way to serve Nagash and only Nagash.

One of the sketches I made with some info we have is:


The idea here is to display a heavily armour Wraith Knight/Wraithforged Knight that basically is capable to keep the essence of it's slain victims to empower Nagash. A bond is made for this previous mortal with Nagash for the very simple reason that Sigmar was not there to assist said mortal in battle, while Nagash was. So in order to be capable of defend the realms of Death from Chaos and Destruction a pact has been made with Nagash.

The Hourglass carried by the warrior in question is what allows it to capture the souls of it's victims to empower both itself and Nagash. To me a mix of Morghast and Nighthaunt Wraith design is one of the more interesting new concepts that would allow for something unique yet clearly potent. 

All in all we will see what occurs but I do not think it's a coincedence that so far we have seen a Wraithlike figure and Darkoath figure. To me it seems we will see the aftermath fleshed out of several armies growing without the assistance of Sigmar but with the assistance of said Chaos or Death.
For Order I would expect more technology in combination with Free Guilds. For Destruction I actually expect something that would fit the Moon Clan, by large because we see in Warhammer Quest that they have adapted in their very own ways aswell, more spider-like etc.

Cheers,

[AthlorianStoners]

Yeah I think people are taking the “Death Stormcast” thing a little literally.

what most people are wanting is a new elite infantry unit that carries on the current death themes and aesthetic and also pays off one of the earliest narrative threads established with Nagash in AoS, that being he’s stealing stormcast souls.