"Just Play Better"

[heywoah_twitch]

3 hours ago, Falandris said:

why taking the doubleturn then?

 

8 hours ago, Malakree said:

One of the harshest lessons I had to learn while starting over summer was to anticipate the double T1/2 against me and not over extend into it.

Out dropping into giving opponent first turn into double is like the most ubiquitous strategy you'll find in aos (from casual games to tournaments), and it definitely pays to be aware of it and not overextend into.

If someone has the obvious right play and chooses some lolrandom other line in an effort to help me not lose I'd be pretty insulted.  I'd be further insulted by the implication that they think I wouldn't notice. It would do far more to ruin a game for me than simply losing - losing is a part of life and a teaching moment. What can I learn from an opponent who lets me win like I'm some child?  

*important note: actually helping someone learn the ropes in AoS is quite distinct from 'let's play a matched play battleplan at 2k and you realize over the course of the game that your opponent is newer than they let on'.

[Falandris]

I disagree on that one. If you feel your opponent who is obviously lacking experience and is very new to the game ("He made several blunders during set up and beyond") - maybe don't exploit it like a douche. Give him some tipps and try to win without the doubleturn. I guess he wanted to try the game as a whole and was not going into it with such a tryhardmentality like you did.

For me it's not about doing always the best and tactical supreme choice - it's about both players having a fun experience. If it's not a tournament game and you are ahead (or feeling superior because of your overall experience in general)  it's way more pleasant to me to try a different route. Make the game more exciting - tabling your opponent in 2-3 turns is no fun for both sides will only result in weird feelings towards you and why would he be offended by you not taking the optimal choice? He is new to the game, so he won't be able to compete on the same level as you do. Dont't you think you can also generate insights and improve your game while taking a sub-optimal route - therefore playing out of a weaker position? Wrecking newbies is quite dishonorable, as you noticed yourself. Dunno I would be quite scared off about another game in his position.

What new players coming outside of AoS complain about the most is often times the doubleturn. Letting him do his newbish mistakes (maybe give some hints) and then rubbing the questionable doubleturn-rule right in his face isn't the best way of getting someone into AoS.

[heywoah_twitch]

You feel my opponent was an obvious noob that I mercilessly crushed like a douche because you're reading this report that I wrote will the full power of hindsight. If it was that obvious at the time of course I would've gone full teacher mode like I did with my nurgle opponent earlier in this thread (who from the get-go said it was just about his first game of AoS). The "file it under" part of my post was speaking to the relevance of the win more than how I approached the game.

In fact in the nurgle game we didn't even use priority rolls, as I've found (as you've attested) that it's the biggest turn-off for potential players since it's so un-fun. Though I did tell him about them, as you don't want to be dishonest with someone from the beginning.

Teaching or introducing someone to the game is way different than a 2k matched play battleplan where an opponent is either making a mistake or setting up a very risky play, of course, and all your points certainly apply to helping someone learn the game.

[tolstedt]

 

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maybe don't exploit it like a douche.

That's an incredibly rude thing to say.

 

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tryhardmentality

This is also an incredibly rude thing to say.  Some people enjoy putting their mind to tasks and trying to do well at them.  Sometimes that task is a game.  Some people like to work hard and play the game their best.  Using this "tryhardmentality" phrase dismisses these people.

 

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tabling your opponent in 2-3 turns is no fun for both sides

That's what @heywoah_twitch said.  

 

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Wrecking newbies is quite dishonorable

That's not what happened here.

 

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why would he be offended by you not taking the optimal choice?

It's a level of respect.  Respect means treating people like adults, and part of treating someone like an adult is knowing you can defeat them and that they can handle it.  
 

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and then rubbing the questionable doubleturn-rule right in his face isn't the best way of getting someone into AoS.

This looks like you assume that  @heywoah_twitch offered himself as an ambassador of AoS and then promptly beat his opponent senseless.  That's not at all what happened here.  This was not a teaching game.  The words you choose to use throughout your post, such as "rubbing it right in his face", do not reflect what actually happened and should be chosen more carefully.

@FalandrisI think before making posts like this it is good to consider why other people play a game.  The motivations of others do not always fit with your own motivations.  The game offers lots of different experiences for different people who want different things.  This is also why it's important to ask the opponent what kind of game they want.  If their idea of a good game doesn't line up with yours, you can match your efforts to them, or just choose not to play with that person.

[tolstedt]

10 hours ago, heywoah_twitch said:

Dispossessed are pretty sweet. Rune Lords buffs stack

Sad news I believe the rend prayer does not stack anymore.  I remember a battlereport with someone stacking -3 rend on the gunline and it sounded cool.  I could imagine the dwarves glowing with energy firing flaming bullets.

[heywoah_twitch]

I'm of a similar mind to tolstedt that making smart plays in a tactical game is both fun and a matter of respect in a way. There's plenty of room for trying not to win or making random choices or disregarding rules and objectives in Narrative and Open play - I was in a christmas themed narrative event last weekend as it happens and I was quite content not choosing optimal lines there.

There's something to be said for trying to exploit or bend the rules for angle-shooting or some other such unsportsmanlike play, but rolling for initiative and deciding to act upon it is a far cry from that.

His message was indeed rude, but he was under the misunderstanding that this was some "tryhard" vs "casual" situation where I'm going around 'gotcha wrecking' new players which I assure you isn't the case. Many AoS players are just itching to insult the dreaded That Guy powergamer and I don't know if it's left over from WFB or coming in from the 40k scene (I don't play 40k but I've heard stories), but in my personal experience I haven't found any in real life sigmar, but constantly hear about it online like it's some plague sweeping the nation. Maybe when I enter my first tournament I'll change my tune, but for now I think people are too eager to bust out their soapboxes.

Edit:

Christmas themed narrative event pics

[jkav86]

Hey man, really cool thread here. I've been thinking of doing something similar for my Flesh Eater Courts.  I think I've got a 40/60 kind of ratio for wins but it would help to write it down and reflect on each game.

[heywoah_twitch]

44 minutes ago, jkav86 said:

Hey man, really cool thread here. I've been thinking of doing something similar for my Flesh Eater Courts.  I think I've got a 40/60 kind of ratio for wins but it would help to write it down and reflect on each game.

Their lore is fantastic, but I've heard FEC is in similar trouble to BCR competitively, so you should go for it!

If nothing else it will help you improve and get a healthier mindset about winning and losing, lines of play, and familiarity with your army's units. Perhaps you'll refute a common strategy. "Always play mournfang in 2-man units to avoid battleshock" that was the prevailing wisdom when I started. After all this testing I find 4-mans superior in many situations.

I don't think there's a secret code that once cracked suddenly beastclaw or flesh-eaters will top tables and everyone playing them right now is 'just doing it wrong' or anything, but it's important to eliminate as much user error as we can when preparing suggested changes for ghb18 in threads like this.

[Pigbones]

Great thread!

I’m looking to start BCR and this thread is an invaluable resource!

[bonzai]

3 hours ago, heywoah_twitch said:

Their lore is fantastic, but I've heard FEC is in similar trouble to BCR competitively, so you should go for it!

If nothing else it will help you improve and get a healthier mindset about winning and losing, lines of play, and familiarity with your army's units. Perhaps you'll refute a common strategy. "Always play mournfang in 2-man units to avoid battleshock" that was the prevailing wisdom when I started. After all this testing I find 4-mans superior in many situations.

I don't think there's a secret code that once cracked suddenly beastclaw or flesh-eaters will top tables and everyone playing them right now is 'just doing it wrong' or anything, but it's important to eliminate as much user error as we can when preparing suggested changes for ghb18 in threads like this.

FEC are sadly considered a bottom tier army, though how exactly they stack up when compared to BCRs is up to debate. Some rate them higher, some lower, but most agree that they are pretty much on the same tier. The main issue with the army is that they are susceptible to hero sniping, which then takes away their regen mechanic and synergies that they rely heavily on. This is a serious issue with how dominant ranged armies are right now. They have great flavor, cool models, and a few viable battalions of varying competitiveness that drastically alter the play style. Monster mash, hordes, glass hammer speed lists, etc. It's a surprisingly flexible army. I have been seriously been torn between starting them or deathrattle as my Death army, with FEC currently winning out due to the variety it offers and cool fluff.

[Pigbones]

27 minutes ago, bonzai said:

I have been seriously been torn between starting them or deathrattle as my Death army, with FEC currently winning out due to the variety it offers and cool fluff.

It's very possible that Malign Portents is going to have new Death releases, so I might hold off on starting Death just yet.

[Malakree]

6 minutes ago, Pigbones said:

It's very possible that Malign Portents is going to have new Death releases, so I might hold off on starting Death just yet.

I'd say it's a given. Especially since the new hero is nighthaunt and they are lacking a bit at the moment.

Definitely wait the 18 days till the count down!

[Pigbones]

26 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I'd say it's a given. Especially since the new hero is nighthaunt and they are lacking a bit at the moment.

Definitely wait the 18 days till the count down!

Yeah! The new "The Ship" teaser is the most I've been excited by this game in awhile.

[Turragor]

On 12/16/2017 at 2:06 AM, heywoah_twitch said:

Whatever command ability let basically his whole army hit and wound on 2s is stupendous, and I'm really jealous of armies that have easy synergy like that when I'm spending 280pts to ally in random +1 to hit on a 3-4 dice roll. mournfang just galloped into a buzzsaw and had little effect besides exploding and then running away.

To me this sounds like a mistake - unless it was the bonus to the freeguild elements only. I'm not sure the Freeguild general has an ability that affects all order.

On 12/16/2017 at 2:06 AM, heywoah_twitch said:

The grots were useless here, but 1) they can't bubble wrap against shooting and 2) they were too slow to actually make it to any objective to contest. I think grots might needs be paired with thundertusks, else leave them home, but further testing req.

Yeah against ranged they don't do much but I think, entering a tournament for instance, they give you a little something for 100 points.

Reaching objectives with them is an interesting one, I'd envision that once they've done their wrap against alpha job they might sit on a near objective instead of reaching a far one?

[heywoah_twitch]

Had two fun games yesterday!

The first was against the mixed chaos of an old wfb dude with a bunch of breyherd/warherd stuff that just wanted to learn AoS so we went over azyr, list building, allegiances, etc and had a nice game to just get him used to mechanics and early tactics. He's savy enough, so we jumped in with priority, terrain abilites, and a battleplan (I chose scorched earth as burning objectives is on theme with the 'herds and the decision points for keep or burn are good to give new prospective players some tactical choices to think about).  I chose a list with a little bit of everything to expose him to different types of unit roles (one stonehorn, one thundertusk, a butcher, grots, sabers, a naked ambush hunter, and some mournfang). Fun was had, and he asked smart questions during post-game tactics talk and I expect the next game to be a proper fight. Also, while many were unfinished, our painted-model fights looked good!

------ Game 2

Had a second game after that with a local guy still building his freeguild, but a quite experienced 40k player and vocal AoS listbuilder/theorycrafter. While I suspected he hadn't played the most AoS games exactly, overhearing his plotting about hurricanum-backed handgunners was regular background noise in the flgs, so maybe it's on!

Perfect opportunity to try out a battalion that I frankly mostly dismissed as bad after its 500% point cost increase in ghb17: the jorlbad. 

Why did I think it was bad? Because it requires you to take 740 points worth of nerfed-behemoths, because the run-and-charge it gives your units is wasted on the stonehorns who can already do that, and because the stock-standard MSUs of mournfang are already basically immune to battleshock.

Why did I think it could be low-key good? Because mournfang are our best guys whom I think you don't run in MSUs anymore, so what if you ran a ****load of them and now they can all run and charge? Plus re-rolling bs lets you mitigate the risks using larger units.

But why am I still hesitant? Because the stonehorn really aren't amazing for their points, and the goal of the list is turning your mournfang into units that are as good as stonehorn should be, so your list is doubled up on roles (two expensive blocks of guys who do the same thing only one is better - the same reason I think braggoth beasthammer steps on its own toes). The list is uncomfortably tight, and can't really be balanced. You can only fit in one butcher with a properly numerous amount of mournfang (12), and so when you aren't rolling the lucky +1 to hit and/or good run rolls things will be underwhelming. Also, no thundertusk so the lack of ranged threat is a huge liability in many matchups. Also, no one to hold the second artefact.

So how did it go?

Strategically unhelpfully, for the most part, due to die rolls but you'll see...

Opponent is on a grand company with a large unit of demigryph knights (a unit I think gets underestimated), a big unit of outriders, lots of shooting, and some artillery with a battlemage. He informs me during the standard friendly set-up rundown of units and their abilities that @Turragor's suspicions were quite correct: the freeguild general on horse's command ability is considerably less powerful than how it was played against me during the other game vs Freeguild that we were admittedly rushing to finish before the store closed. Only 3 units, free-people-only, within 15", who can not move nor charge, but gain +1hit and wound. Well, that's more reasonable though still strong.

I'm on huskard stonehorn, beastrider stonehorn, butcher, 2 frost sabers, jorlbad, 4x4x4 mournfang.

Battle For The Pass.

Boy, playing with battalions is quite the rare privilege for beastclaw! 3-drop into giving him the first turn. Unless you have some rare combo on scorched earth or the initial anvil monster onto a point in duality of death or something, having the first turn is pretty weak, and I consider it a problem that could be looked into for AoS. It's hardly even a full turn, it's more of a half-turn as most of your stuff is out of range and you're at risk for getting double turned. It further gives way too much advantage to good-battalion armies as they tend to get to choose who goes first on top of having the privilege of quality abilities from battalions. It is indeed an advantage to be able to keep dropping around an opponent who's finished deploying, but not nearly enough to make up for choosing turn order imo.

He moves up a little, putting his demigryphs just enough in front of a handgunner squad to trigger some shooty goodness if I charge stuff. Scores 3.

I have some lines to think about here, and consider his army list and the objectives of the battleplan. His only speedy unit besides outriders (who are back a fair bit behind most of his other units to play more as counter-charge skirmishers), and he's eschewed things like general on gryphon. If I can line up a good crash into those demigryphs and put 3 blood vultures on the artillery crew, I think I can clog up the board with beef, get stuck-in, and just collect 5 points a turn while my army is slowly absorbed and dragged down by his legions of slow bodies, essentially wasting time until the end of the game. I run up into position and prepare to win the double but not get (too) wrecked if I lose it. Score 3.

Who knew that my rolls would be so insane that I almost can't take much away from the match. 

I win the double turn. Butcher casts mystic shield, butcher pulls +1 to hit out of his cauldron on left mournfang. Everyone runs on 5s and 6s and succeed on every charge with high rolls to pull everything in. 2mw per mourn charge, 5mw and 2mw for the two stonehorn. Third mournfang unit is positioned midfield to counter charge or crash into a combat I'm losing. I put 2w on the crew with vultures. He shoots me on my charge phase for about 10min, and my save rolls are great (re-rolling 1s as I fished for it on everwinter).

I activate the mournfang fighting demigryphs, hit and wound with six (6) gargant hackers dealing 18 damage, with the mounts finishing off the last knight. Fatality. The preposterously lucky rolls continue, taking only 4 damage on my right mournfang unit, 1 damage on huskard, and zero on beastriders, who kill about 10 guys each. Score 5 more points.

He shoots me for 10min and I re-roll maybe 16 ones and take a small amount of damage, probably half as much as I should expect statistically. He can't really fit past me so he charges in, does a small amount of damage due to good save rolls on my part, I return a small amount of damage to his guys due to lots of missing but this is fine, I'm winning on board, we're just spending time and absorbing points. He scores 1 more point.

For the rest of the game our guys slowly kill eachother in massive blobs of combat while I tally 5 points per turn to his 1. Every turn I either get or fish for and get the re-roll saves of 1 everwinter result. To add insult to injury, his big outrider unit gets befuddled near mystical terrain while in melee with my backup 4 mournfang. Major Victory.

What I learned:

Beastclaw is a very competitive army provided you consistently roll in the upper 90-percentile of every d6 you roll for the first two entire battle rounds. You don't need thundertusks or ranged damage to counter enemy shooting because they'll just miss most of their shots and then you'll pass the majority of your saves. One Butcher is fine because he'll just get the lucky +1 to hit buff every turn for the whole game, and the stone skeleton nerf is fine because even though your opponent will attack you with exclusively 1-damage attacks thus getting around it, you'll just pass all your saves all game anyway. Finally, rolling for initiative is fair and balanced if you decide to just win every priority roll.

But seriously what I learned:

mournfang run and charge lets you stay far enough back to protect against a losing priority, but absolutely gun it across the battlefield when you need to. It's amazing, whether it's worth it to take so much un-ideal reqs and be an unbalanced list for that I think is still an open question.

Re-rolling saves of 1 has been building up over the last dozen games I've played into probably my favorite result on the everwinter die.

[kozokus]

On 18/12/2017 at 7:45 PM, heywoah_twitch said:

Beastclaw is a very competitive army provided you consistently roll in the upper 90-percentile of every d6 you roll for the first two entire battle rounds.

As funny as it sounds, i still think you touched something right here. Sure, warhammer is a game where luck is an important factor but all the flavour of the game is to manage that concept to make it less important. 

Yet, when you roll only 8 dice for all your turn, stats do not apply and you'd better have Lady Luck on your side.

The army-wide 4+ to hit is kinda crippling, what i see when i read your games is that  a large portion of your games resolves around you chargin' something with the allmighty cavalery of DOOM and rolling ones to hit and get stomped after.

[stratigo]

On 12/15/2017 at 9:56 PM, heywoah_twitch said:

[grumbling intensifies]

[gentlemen starting their engines]

Today's was a game against a newish AoS player (but not new to 40k or WFB) on a very good looking dispossessed army. A picturesque battle cut tragically short by the Dreaded Double Turn.

He was on two kings, 2x20 warriors, 20 ironbreakers, 20 quarrelers, 2 ballistae, 2 cannons, a totem banner dwarf, a fireman slayer hero

He made several blunders during set up and beyond (didn't put his general with teleporting pickaxe near a meaningful unit, forgot to use his save rerolling triumph when ironbreakers were getting hammered in combat, and ran up into charge range with all his dwarves t1. Actual Run too, so no shield wall during the ensuing mournfang charges). Would've probably been fine, but then I won priority to get the t2 double turn so he proceeded to get fully crippled and the game was soon over in a concession for lunch. 

What I learned:

Getting the double turn to all but win a game on the spot is the least satisfying victory ever. I got magically gifted a Time Walk while ahead - wow so skilled, what a deserved win. Deus ex machina writ small, I felt like apologizing.

Despite the performance, having looked through all their stuff while he was making his list and setting up, I think Dispossessed are pretty sweet. Rune Lords buffs stack, shield wall rerolling saves on most of your guys (even battleline), solid massive reg discounts, dat teleporting pickaxe, irondrakes are overcosted but seem good.

File this one under "helping a new player learn the game" along with the Nurgle guy rather than a data point for wins and losses tbh.

 

 

nah, file under playing dispossessed.

 

You think YOUR army is bad? Brother, let me tell you, it's got nothing on the poor dawi. Disposessed are close to the worst actual army you can play (as opposed to something like white lions, which aren't playable)

[kozokus]

4 hours ago, stratigo said:

You think YOUR army is bad? Brother, let me tell you, it's got nothing on the poor dawi. Disposessed are close to the worst actual army you can play (as opposed to something like white lions, which aren't playable)

Can you explain? 2000 points an reasonably lead you to an army of 150 models with decent middle-range shootings and have an army wide reroll-save, reroll1 to hit, +1 to wound and a bunch of +1 rend/6++. You can also have multiple generals. Seems rather nice on paper.

[heywoah_twitch]

It could just be one of those ' looks good on paper but not in practice' things. Runelord with pickaxe near 30 irondrakes seems fun, but probably too expensive. Iron-anything feel overcosted.

And the main push i was making for them being good was specifically errata'd by name to no longer work (multiple runelord buffs on the same unit - why not? Stronger armies can do better)

The whole army is move 4" and if they want to reroll saves they can't even run. In a game where movement is arguably the most important thing, maybe that's too restrictive. 

[stratigo]

everything in the dwarf army is overcosted for what it does, is slow, and relies on not moving or moving slowly to get benefits.

 

They don't have amazing buff synergies, they don't have killer units. Every shooting unit dwarves get.... there's a strictly better choice in free guilds.

[SolarBur]

as someone who is getting BCR icewind assault for christmas and hoping to start in the new year, reading this is really enjoyable. given tactics and advice, but also a good few battle reports. will keep checking here for more content ^^

[Naflem]

bud your photos are awesome.  

[heywoah_twitch]

Today I played in a practice tournament at the local gw store in preparation for Adepticon, and boy do I need to take my own advice today (the advice the thread is named after).

Three rounds with altered battleplans, and I took what I thought would be the most well-rounded list:

2x huskard on thundertusk, 1x ally butcher

20x ally grots, 2x frost sabers

4x4x4 mournfang

Round 1 was against store man filling in due to an odd number in the event on Nagash, Mourngul, vampire lord on foot, banshee, 3x10 zombies, and summoning pool.

Total Conquest with 2 extra objectives placed where each player wants them, but more than 9" from another point.

I was at the time and still am recovering from a fever, so these reports will be a little light on specifics, but I was most coherent for round one.

He gave me turn one, I shimmied up a little and scored one point. He rolled low on a summon so decided not to resolve it (trying to fish for 40 skeletans with nagash's summon ability), cast mystic shield, some other spells, flew some guys up, ran with zombies.

His t2 he moved guys closer up, cast a million spells, I actually unbound a summon (wow!). blood vultures put a wound on nagash, everyone shoots skalg pistols at him too. I charged left zombies off the table with mourfang capturing, charged right zombies off the table with right mournfang capturing, and got vampire into combat but the terrain prevented my from getting more than one guy in there, plus he suffered -2 to hit so missed everything. blood vultures go on nagash doing a wound, everyone shoots skalg pistols at nagash. thundertusks pew pew nagash doing 12 mortal wounds 3 damage. 

My t3 ran the left mournfang around flanking to grab that red point by his hand in the pic below. Butcher climbs the tower and gets unbound, pulls nothing out of the cauldron. thundertusks blast nagash for 12 mortal wounds 5 damage. mournfang charge banshee, doing 2mw and missing most of their attacks. His t3 he summons 40 skeletons near the right point and so it's a lost cause. nagash retreats, mourngul charges over grots and tags thundertusk for about 8 damage, takes nothing in return (thundertusks are super weak in combat). vampire hits mournfang, they mostly miss in return. 

pictured below: thundertusk huksard Humungous Socrates peers over at the bone zone and lets out a great sigh "this objective is lost."

T4 I kill the banshee and remaining zombies. Mourngul kills thundertusk. Left mournfang crash into nagash doing 5 of his 6 remaining wounds, then he kills 2. The Bone Zone captures the points, oozing over to get the next one on t5. vampire, having killed all but one mournfang, retreat runs and flies over to capture leftmost point.

T5 mournfang finish off nagash (secret objective complete), mourngul nearly kills second thundertusk, 40 skeletons delete 4 mournfang easily, and I end up winning on points by like 3.

Major Victory, though I got very lucky in two important ways. He failed a very easy summoning roll turn 1, and then I miraculously unbound with a straight rolling butcher vs +3 to cast nagash on turn 2. If the bone zone arrived even one turn sooner, the game would have certainly been a loss.

Things I learned:

Grot screen was flown over by ghosts and mournguls and was again thwarted. Some day this unit will prove useful at least once, but so far 0-3 in games.

Expensive centerpiece-spam armies like this are what BCR is supposed to prey on, especially with double thundertusks, but with a huge amount of mw mitigation they were ... okay. They did 10 wounds to nagash from 18" away over the course of two turns, and then got dumpstered by a mourngul. So 760 points made 800 points withdraw, and then 400pts killed 380 without a scratch. Seems okay, but not great.

Early on I decided to completely ignore the mourngul as part of target priority decisions. I knew it would mean the death of a thundertusk later in the game, and it turned out fine I think, as nagash needing to withdraw was impactful (and lead to secondary objective when he died).

---ROUND 2---

Duality of Death (with 3 extra objectives) vs Sylvaneth with alarielle, drycha, treelord ancient, bow kurnoth, sword kurnoth, 30 dryads, 2x5 tree revenants.

He placed wyldwoods all around the right three objectives, and I was not sure how to handle it. mournfang are too big to properly maneuver in forests (typically I'm lucky to get even 2 in combat), plus they're all deadly and he can teleport to them. Most of his units he set up in ambush.

T1 My runs weren't so great on thundertusks so I couldn't get to any objectives, and can't fit through woods and was concerned about kurnoth's charting them early, so I hung back (this is a mistake). His turn 1 he made 3 more woods and teleported alarielle and treelord onto 2 of the objectives surrounded by 6 wyldwoods and 30 dryads zig-zag bubble wrapped all throughout (and unable to get within 18 from alarielle or the hunter). This was literally game over. Duality gives you points per turn you've been on the objective, so I could not get his two heroes off and if I ran over to sit on other points I would never catch up (especially because it would take me 2 turns to reach them). He scores points.

T2 kurnoths charge, dryads charge, drycha charges, he casts a bunch of spells and puts a bunch of damage on all my guys, charts thundertusks, scores points. thundertusks shoot dryads to start chewing through those wounds to get to his heroes. Roll double 1s for frost-wreathed ice. Welp.

For the rest of the game he scores an ever increasing number of points while killing all my guys and aoe healing any damage I deal and dealing great, consistent damage with kurnoths. He has over 30 points by the end of the game to my 3. The Majorist of Losses.

What I learned:

One single tree revenant Scion fought the 20 grots on the left part of the map from turn 2 to turn 5. In those four turns grots do zero damage and the one scion kills/battleshocks 18 of them. One tree reventant is 16pts, the leader maybe 20 since he's special? 

0-4 for grots having any affect in games, I'm now comically disappointed in them.

My opponent tells me that he considers this a bad matchup, although I can not fathom how. He says I should have ran thundertusks up to the middle, putting them in range of kurnoths, all of his spells, drycha's ranged damage, and charge range and pray for initiative. In retrospect it was better to pray for the priority (that I lost) rather than play conservatively and get crushed with no chance, so we'll count it as a big mistake.

Sidenote: In both rounds now, people watching my games were commenting about how OP beastclaw raiders were all during the games which I found frustrating. "Man that 6mw snowball is such bull****." "I hate playing against beastclaw they're just so overpowered." As I lose by 28 points in an absolute shut-out, after three months of near-constant losses, playing the lowest-placing army in big events this season. It didn't feel great. 

---ROUND 3---

Knife to the Heart

I play against a nice man on full 7-unit brass stampede. Long story short my fever is coming back, so we both move up as 'get the charge' armies and roll for T2 initiative, whoever wins gets the charge and probably the game. He wins, gets the charge on most of my guys, both thundertusks take about 8 damage, I lose most of the combats, and the next two turns are mostly clean-up. Lots of missing, lots of failed saves. Major Loss.

The grots were awkward in this game, as I used them to screen thundertusks, but they got in the way of mournfang getting into position, making my deploy and t1 moves really bad, esp. when re-rolled everwinter into 3" move (trying for save re-rolling) and since they were in front and non-bcr it was just a wasted move. They did get slaughter priest pulled up and wiped out on opponent's turn 1, so on one hand he had to spend abilities and stuff doing that, on the other hand nothing else was in range so, man, 0 for 5, arguably 1/2 for 5? I'm about to the point where 4 frost sabers for 20 less points forming a vaguely U-shape around a thundertusk is just better than grots.

What I Learned Tournament Edition:

All day people attacked me with 2s to hit, 2s to wound. 3s to hit rerolling 1s, 2s to wound. 3s and 3s rerolling 1s to hit and wound. 3s and 3s, etc. The attack rolls people made with non-screen/tarpit units consistently hit and wounded. I consistently did not, rolling 4s to hit army-wide, pulling a hit buff out of the butcher once. I think it's just not okay to be inaccurate, as an army. It doesn't matter that you do great damage a minority of the time - zoom out and roll enough dice all day for three games (or 5 in bigger tourneys) and variance will even things out (at your expense). Whenever my opponents attacked with a guy that hit on 4s, regardless of what his damage was, they described it as "he's pretty terrible" and I'm like, oof that's my whole army.

However, joke was on my opponent once today. wrathmongers made mournfang attack themselves and of course they missed so next leveled

Grots man. grots. Maybe there's just a lower-limit on how awful a warscroll can be even to just screen. The killer is how slow they are, they actually hamper tusk movement and are mostly flown/shot over/killed in a single combat by a unit that wasn't going to hit anything else/etc. I was truly playing with 1900 points today.

Thundertusks performed poorly. They half-killed nagash and honestly were a massive 800 point spaghetti for the rest of the day. They did on average 2 damage in melee and mostly sat at d3mw on the breath from chart damage, out-ranged by enemy bowmen, or dead.

Frostlord on stonehorn was probably not the choice today either. In all likelyhood it would've been 3 losses instead of 2, but with a closer round two. I really felt the lack of a second butcher, and his spells were commonly unbound or failed all day, and I got I think two hit buffs, but these aren't exactly unlucky. 7s on maw is average, most casters I faced had unbind buffs, one had an auto-unbind ability, etc.

I wanted to play against tzeentch and KO, just to see how strong they are, but those guys didn't lose so we weren't paired up. 

I came expecting to play against total waac filth and get completely smashed. I played against decidedly non-waac stuff and got completely smashed anyway, but won one game through total luck.

I made a picture from today into a meme to cheer up, enjoy:

[Vasshpit]

Here's to hoping the Herald of Destruction turns out to be some kind of wicked, turn the tide kind of unit for BCR.

I actually started collecting them as the army looks great but, in the end, opted to sell them off before ever assembling...

Maybe one day. 

Cheers for hanging in there!

[stratigo]

at 2000 points, I really feel like KO are natural predators for BCR. As a KO player, if I haven't removed at 2 large, nasty monsters in a turn, I've done somthing wrong