Whats up with GW's prices??

[Sheriff]

Coffee is cheap if you avoid places like starbucks. Dunkins is great value I think. 

My general rule in life is spend yer money where you spend yer time. I spend a load of time painting and playing warhammer so happy to spend $1000 a year on it. I also spend a ton of time sat in traffic with no joy other than my tasty tasty dunkins coffee and snack (and local am radio). 

[Skarloc]

6 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Actually there is no individual kit for the Magmadroth anymore. If you look on the GW website under the Magmadroth individual listing you will see the following message;

"Please note – when you purchase this miniature, you’ll receive the Start Collecting! Fyreslayers box. This contains the complete Magmadroth kit, with all the options as described here, as well as 10 Vulkite Berzerkers, for the same price!"

So technically no reduction on the kit, as weirdly it no longer exists by itself!  

Nice catch!

[MrCharisma]

If you want to talk about pricing, check out the Australian web store...

[Twitch of Izalith]

On 06/12/2017 at 7:51 AM, MrCharisma said:

If you want to talk about pricing, check out the Australian web store...

Yeah you guys get shafted - stuffs about 12% more expensive than UK at the current exchange rate. In fairness its probably your government & shipping costs shafting you rather than GW.

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

On 6/12/2017 at 8:51 AM, MrCharisma said:

If you want to talk about pricing, check out the Australian web store...

Well, they are a penal colony, so it's fitting.

[Killax]

GW's prices where always on a high standard and indeed the logic for it is very difficult to find. Part of the reason could be the mold cost which probably has different costs attached to it also.

What I do see however is that many great deals are available now and back when I did play WFB such deals where always wished for but never given. The army deals that where around where very limited deals, with a limited model and there often was somewhat of a run for them if they where made for popular armies. For example, I've seen the Orcs and Goblins deal stick around for way too long but Space Marines, Chaos Warriors or even that of Ogre Kingdoms where sold practically the week we had them in our local store.

As a player of many games however I will say that Games Workshop currently speaking is at a very affordable cost for the hobby involved. What I mean by this is that both Age of Sigmar and Warhammer 40.000 are cheaper as many other game alternatives. Examples of those would be Warmachine and Hordes, producing certainly a lower quality of models but still present GW prices and much less army deals or even compaired to Malifaux where a Shadespire Warband is actually cheaper as the Malifaux Warbands. Then lets not even start discussing what happend to MtG prices since 2010. The former cheap format, Standard, now typically requires competitive decks on par with 1.5-2K Warhammer armies.

[RuneBrush]

6 minutes ago, Killax said:

GW's prices where always on a high standard and indeed the logic for it is very difficult to find. Part of the reason could be the mold cost which probably has different costs attached to it also.

Actually the biggest reason is because we all pay it...  GW offers a premium product at a premium price and although as things go, ours is cheap hobby, GW wouldn't be able to continue charging high prices if we didn't all buy the stuff

[Ollie Grimwood]

57 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

Yeah you guys get shafted - stuffs about 12% more expensive than UK at the current exchange rate. In fairness its probably your government & shipping costs shafting you rather than GW.

It’s probably also to do with Oz having higher costs genarally, wages, property, cost of living etc.  All makes the GW operation there more expensive to run.  So they’ll need to charge more. When they printed profit by area breakdowns in the financial statements the profit percentage in Australia was lower than that of the UK and US.  

Forge World operates directly from the UK and I understand their prices are more uniform which would fit with that  

On prices in general GWs profit margin last year was about 25% rising from about 10% for the last few years 

[Killax]

21 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

Actually the biggest reason is because we all pay it...  GW offers a premium product at a premium price and although as things go, ours is cheap hobby, GW wouldn't be able to continue charging high prices if we didn't all buy the stuff

To an extend. What we see for example is that several of the un-sold WFB boxes are re-boxed and now delivered with different bases and while that certainly costs time to do the price is not adapted to that. I think that 'new GW' is indeed not really that much of an expensive hobby anymore. If someone is willing to buy a lot of models in one go you get some cool deals for sure.

[Red]

On 12/7/2017 at 4:56 AM, Killax said:

GW's prices where always on a high standard and indeed the logic for it is very difficult to find. Part of the reason could be the mold cost which probably has different costs attached to it also.

What I do see however is that many great deals are available now and back when I did play WFB such deals where always wished for but never given. The army deals that where around where very limited deals, with a limited model and there often was somewhat of a run for them if they where made for popular armies. For example, I've seen the Orcs and Goblins deal stick around for way too long but Space Marines, Chaos Warriors or even that of Ogre Kingdoms where sold practically the week we had them in our local store.

As a player of many games however I will say that Games Workshop currently speaking is at a very affordable cost for the hobby involved. What I mean by this is that both Age of Sigmar and Warhammer 40.000 are cheaper as many other game alternatives. Examples of those would be Warmachine and Hordes, producing certainly a lower quality of models but still present GW prices and much less army deals or even compaired to Malifaux where a Shadespire Warband is actually cheaper as the Malifaux Warbands. Then lets not even start discussing what happend to MtG prices since 2010. The former cheap format, Standard, now typically requires competitive decks on par with 1.5-2K Warhammer armies.

Aren't Malifaux war bands more figures than Shadespire war bands? (you only get 4-5 models in shade spire for $30, while Malifaux you pay $45 for 6 models and a Golem?) Shadespire is also trying to go for a more cash strapped crowd, so they don't match normal GW pricing for 3-5 characters. Also, Malifaux Models are 1/3 the price of 40K/AOS/HOBBIT ones ( Angelica and Allison Dade are $11 VS $35 from GW for an Apothicary or $30 for a tech priest), which is what most people refer to when they bring up price.
Also, new Warmachine models are very detailed, they just have a different aesthetic than GW models (PP is rugged and savage, while GW is smooth gothic). Old PP is about as detailed as old GW (look at the current Ork Boyz sprue), but the new PP stuff is quite detailed (Compare Styxis Gunslingers to Sword Knights, or Compare the new House Escher kit to GW Night Runners).

[mumperpa]

1 hour ago, Red said:

Aren't Malifaux war bands more figures than Shadespire war bands? (you only get 4-5 models in shade spire for $30, while Malifaux you pay $45 for 6 models and a Golem?) Shadespire is also trying to go for a more cash strapped crowd, so they don't match normal GW pricing for 3-5 characters. Also, Malifaux Models are 1/3 the price of 40K/AOS/HOBBIT ones ( Angelica and Allison Dade are $11 VS $35 from GW for an Apothicary or $30 for a tech priest), which is what most people refer to when they bring up price.
Also, new Warmachine models are very detailed, they just have a different aesthetic than GW models (PP is rugged and savage, while GW is smooth gothic). Old PP is about as detailed as old GW (look at the current Ork Boyz sprue), but the new PP stuff is quite detailed (Compare Styxis Gunslingers to Sword Knights, or Compare the new House Escher kit to GW Night Runners).

As someone who has played Warmachine (Trollbloods) I can say the newer models aren't equal quality at all. I painted my fire eaters the other day. They were released in February 2015, and the age of sigmar starter set was released in June that year. The fire eaters had mold lines all over, and what stands out the most to me is that the bottom of one of the kilts is solid plastic. No attempt to make it seem fabric, if you look at the bottom of the model, it ruins the ascetic. In contrast, the liberator primes had cloaks at ground level and cloths in the front, and yet they are separate pieces. Don't get me wrong, they were still a blast to paint, just had nothing on my stormcast models. 

[Killax]

11 hours ago, Red said:

Aren't Malifaux war bands more figures than Shadespire war bands? (you only get 4-5 models in shade spire for $30, while Malifaux you pay $45 for 6 models and a Golem?) Shadespire is also trying to go for a more cash strapped crowd, so they don't match normal GW pricing for 3-5 characters. Also, Malifaux Models are 1/3 the price of 40K/AOS/HOBBIT ones ( Angelica and Allison Dade are $11 VS $35 from GW for an Apothicary or $30 for a tech priest), which is what most people refer to when they bring up price.

Nope, Malifaux quite often comes with 5-ish models too. The Ironskull Boyz are huge, the Sepulchral Guard are 7 models. Shadespire isn't going for a more cash strapped crowd whatsoever. Wyrd, fine as their models are, just has a higher profit margin on their products. Not to speak of what they call limited models and litterly selling the same model in a translusent plastic and asking 2-3 times the price of their usual product...

Nice as the Wyrd models are they are asking the price because they can and have a small but quite hardcore fanbase. If GW would do something like that tomorrow (and make no mistake they can) the community would react with pitchforkes and torches. Fact is, Games Workshop offers more affordable miniatures as Wyrd. One could argue you need less models for Malifaux but this isn't totally true as several models do not come seperately available so like Shadespire you likely end up with all the kits from your particular faction.

Wyrd vs Games Workshop E.g.

$45


$30

Quote

Also, new Warmachine models are very detailed, they just have a different aesthetic than GW models (PP is rugged and savage, while GW is smooth gothic). Old PP is about as detailed as old GW (look at the current Ork Boyz sprue), but the new PP stuff is quite detailed (Compare Styxis Gunslingers to Sword Knights, or Compare the new House Escher kit to GW Night Runners)

Not really true either. I can give you some photo's of my bare plastics if you want to see the difference in detail depth and molded product quality. The ammount of details PP models are currently produced with are still below what Games Workhop sold somewhere 10 years ago. Some of their newer plastic kits are better but again akin to what Games Workshop was doing 10 years ago.

In addition, profit margin on PP products seem really high considering their (excuse me) ******-tier quality plastic. 

PP vs GW E.g.

MSRP $59,99


$58

The fact of the matter for me is that Games Workshop is currently the cheapest producer of army games that have a large following. The latter matters more as some seem to realize and the reason for me going back to GW actually very much is their price for detail.

As the above examples show you, the two compagnies closest to Games Workshop are actually asking more for their models as Games Workshop does and in this example I'm even excluding products combo's that Games Workshop offers and Wyrd or Privateer Press do not, most certainly not at the same price level that's still comfortable for most adults to try it (which is the $180-ish range.
Times have been different though and the reason why GW is doing so well very much comes forth out of their new price policy. You still pay quite a lot but the detail is massively improved and other alternatives that come remotely close in terms of quality and ease of assembly are more expensive alternatives now.

Before 2015 GW mentioned that they where a hobbyist compagny and acted as such. This drove a lot of players away. With the great 8th edition and Generals Handbooks however there is more than enough gamer reason to stick with Games Workshop. The fun fact here is that with lines like Necromunda and Shadespire (and soon more) it's catering to a Skirmish player who loves games like Malifaux or Infinity. In fact GW is making rulessets that most certainly arn't worse.
The same also very much applies to Army game players who like Warmachine, Hordes or Kings of War and quite frankly there Age of Sigmar is not underpreforming as a rulesset. What I still want to see from Age of Sigmar to have it rise to even more popularity is giving it the added depth it clearly requires and keeps fans around. 

Cheers,

[mumperpa]

Not to mention all the deals you can get from GM. Start collecting boxes, Starter boxes, christmas bundles, and things like the free city boxes, they all give great ways to start and expand your armies. PP has battleboxes, and a few starter sets, but there is a huge difference in number of models and the PP deals don't make for good ways to expand your army. Almost every unit and solo must be bought alone at full price. I collected a pretty good sized trollblood army, but I have about half as many AoS models for maybe a 5th of the price. Also, I recently played in a charity event where GW sponsored up to a  $40 kit per player (the entry fee was to donate a new toy for a toy drive for christmas). There were at least 30 players there, 2/3 40k, 1/3 AoS. PP doesn't even hardly have non-tournament events anymore. 

[Red]

2 hours ago, Killax said:

Nope, Malifaux quite often comes with 5-ish models too. The Ironskull Boyz are huge, the Sepulchral Guard are 7 models. Shadespire isn't going for a more cash strapped crowd whatsoever. Wyrd, fine as their models are, just has a higher profit margin on their products. Not to speak of what they call limited models and litterly selling the same model in a translusent plastic and asking 2-3 times the price of their usual product...

Nice as the Wyrd models are they are asking the price because they can and have a small but quite hardcore fanbase. If GW would do something like that tomorrow (and make no mistake they can) the community would react with pitchforkes and torches. Fact is, Games Workshop offers more affordable miniatures as Wyrd. One could argue you need less models for Malifaux but this isn't totally true as several models do not come seperately available so like Shadespire you likely end up with all the kits from your particular faction.

Wyrd vs Games Workshop E.g.

  Hide contents

$45


$30


 

 

Not really true either. I can give you some photo's of my bare plastics if you want to see the difference in detail depth and molded product quality. The ammount of details PP models are currently produced with are still below what Games Workhop sold somewhere 10 years ago. Some of their newer plastic kits are better but again akin to what Games Workshop was doing 10 years ago.

In addition, profit margin on PP products seem really high considering their (excuse me) ******-tier quality plastic. 

PP vs GW E.g.

  Hide contents

MSRP $59,99


$58

 

 

The fact of the matter for me is that Games Workshop is currently the cheapest producer of army games that have a large following. The latter matters more as some seem to realize and the reason for me going back to GW actually very much is their price for detail.

As the above examples show you, the two compagnies closest to Games Workshop are actually asking more for their models as Games Workshop does and in this example I'm even excluding products combo's that Games Workshop offers and Wyrd or Privateer Press do not, most certainly not at the same price level that's still comfortable for most adults to try it (which is the $180-ish range.
Times have been different though and the reason why GW is doing so well very much comes forth out of their new price policy. You still pay quite a lot but the detail is massively improved and other alternatives that come remotely close in terms of quality and ease of assembly are more expensive alternatives now.

Before 2015 GW mentioned that they where a hobbyist compagny and acted as such. This drove a lot of players away. With the great 8th edition and Generals Handbooks however there is more than enough gamer reason to stick with Games Workshop. The fun fact here is that with lines like Necromunda and Shadespire (and soon more) it's catering to a Skirmish player who loves games like Malifaux or Infinity. In fact GW is making rulessets that most certainly arn't worse.
The same also very much applies to Army game players who like Warmachine, Hordes or Kings of War and quite frankly there Age of Sigmar is not underpreforming as a rulesset. What I still want to see from Age of Sigmar to have it rise to even more popularity is giving it the added depth it clearly requires and keeps fans around. 

Cheers,

 

lol Killax, you picked one of the first plastic boxes wyrd made, and it looks MUCH better than the deathrattle war band box. GW has one good looking miniature (the leader) and 6 ****** plastic dudes who look like they were designed in the 90s, vs the 6 really good looking miniatures Wyrd put out (the fat guy with the shovel looks goofy with his tactical skull, but its a highly detailed figure with a wierd pose).  If we assume those 6 other skeletons are free, we're back to GW's $30 for a character figure [which we should really be comparing to the $11 Wyrd prices their 30mm based figures]

Wyrd cards are also much nicer than the Shadespire ones, but then again, Wyrd made them to last. 
 

With regard to the blood reavers, yes, they are a great deal... but if you put the blood warriors in that same comparison, you're only getting 10 warriors vs 12 pikemen. All three box sets look great (though the Iron Fangs compete more with Storm Cast aesthetics than the cannibals). Maybe you should compare barbarians with barbarians. Please see the $50 Fennblades vs the newer $57 skull reapers:

Spoiler

 

vs skullreapers

Now, these are more expensive than Bloodreavers, but cheaper than blood warriors, and a LOT cheaper than skull reapers  (which are of a similar scale)

 

 

Compare the Shadow Warriors ($50) to the mage hunter strike force (which is only $35):

Spoiler

 

VS

 

Heck, you can compare GW value vs GW value and you get dumb stuff like the following:

Spoiler

Bloodreavers @$3 a model at a $60 buy in (but you're only getting different 10 bodies):

blood warriors at $6 a model at a $60 buy in:

Skullreapers @ $12 a model at a $60 buy in:

 

and slaughter priest at $30 for a single model (holy ******!) at a $30 buy in

those are all "good" models (except for that one guy with the scorpion tail... but I guess somebody might like it) but have differing prices by an order of magnitude.

The fact that we can have this discussion proves that all three companies have a similar level of quality (both good figures and terrible figures). However, it seems like GW does have very dumb price points which are high. Not everything is over costed, but much of it is, particularly at the lower model counts.

 

[Killax]

47 minutes ago, Red said:

lol Killax, you picked one of the first plastic boxes wyrd made, and it looks MUCH better than the deathrattle war band box. GW has one good looking miniature (the leader) and 6 ****** plastic dudes who look like they were designed in the 90s, vs the 6 really good looking miniatures Wyrd put out (the fat guy with the shovel looks goofy with his tactical skull, but its a highly detailed figure with a wierd pose).  If we assume those 6 other skeletons are free, we're back to GW's $30 for a character figure [which we should really be comparing to the $11 Wyrd prices their 30mm based figures]

Wyrd cards are also much nicer than the Shadespire ones, but then again, Wyrd made them to last. 
 

With regard to the blood reavers, yes, they are a great deal... but if you put the blood warriors in that same comparison, you're only getting 10 warriors vs 12 pikemen. All three box sets look great (though the Iron Fangs compete more with Storm Cast aesthetics than the cannibals). Maybe you should compare barbarians with barbarians. Please see the $50 Fennblades vs the newer $57 skull reapers:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

vs skullreapers

Now, these are more expensive than Bloodreavers, but cheaper than blood warriors, and a LOT cheaper than skull reapers  (which are of a similar scale)

 

 

Compare the Shadow Warriors ($50) to the mage hunter strike force (which is only $35):

  Reveal hidden contents

 

VS

 

Heck, you can compare GW value vs GW value and you get dumb stuff like the following:

  Reveal hidden contents

Bloodreavers @$3 a model at a $60 buy in (but you're only getting different 10 bodies):

blood warriors at $6 a model at a $60 buy in:

Skullreapers @ $12 a model at a $60 buy in:

 

and slaughter priest at $30 for a single model (holy ******!) at a $30 buy in

those are all "good" models (except for that one guy with the scorpion tail... but I guess somebody might like it) but have differing prices by an order of magnitude.

The fact that we can have this discussion proves that all three companies have a similar level of quality (both good figures and terrible figures). However, it seems like GW does have very dumb price points which are high. Not everything is over costed, but much of it is, particularly at the lower model counts.

 

Interestingly most of Wyrd's cards who are sold with their boxes arn't up to date anymore. So what you see as made to last I see as an instant need of an update. Buying that box or any for that reason now has an increase of outdated cards.  What looks better is entirely objective. It's funny that you do not seem to realize that whatsoever. But it speaks alot about the comment.

As a Khador player there is a very simple reason why I picked the Bloodreavers over the Blood Warriors. If you have seen both models you'd know that the Blood Warriors are much larger and while 3 dollars more expensive the models simply do not compair sizewise. Better put you get much more plastic there. Again if you want to see the actual models side-by-side say so. Anyone can look good with pro-painted or photoshopped models. It's not how they come out of the box.

However you want to compair two models, that's fine by me:

This are Fennblades out of the box:


This are Skullreapers out of the box:


So if you have not ever handled Privateer Press models the difference barring the massive mold line you might think the plastic quality is similar. It seems to me like you clearly have never handled these Privateer Press models. Because let me tell you, it isn't the same quality, it never was and for whatever reason your paying more for it per plastic quantity with Privateer Press. This means you do not get any additional bits to convert or have parts which you can choose from, in fact the only unique options in that case are Iron Fang Pikemen who do have a different shield option.

Anyone is free to get whatever they want. Interestingly though the examples you chose for the Khorne warriors actually have a great deal with AoS too. Fact of the matter remains that you can choose to not go GW and pay more for a worse quality. Even funnier is that several of the prices you mention from PP are not their prices. E.g. Mage Hunter Strike Force costs $40 and Fenblades are much smaller as Skullreapers. 

If you want to compair the two know your getting a lower quality with PP for sure. Wyrd's products are close but also much more expensive per model count. 

[Red]

5 hours ago, Killax said:

Interestingly most of Wyrd's cards who are sold with their boxes arn't up to date anymore. So what you see as made to last I see as an instant need of an update. Buying that box or any for that reason now has an increase of outdated cards.  What looks better is entirely objective. It's funny that you do not seem to realize that whatsoever. But it speaks alot about the comment.

As a Khador player there is a very simple reason why I picked the Bloodreavers over the Blood Warriors. If you have seen both models you'd know that the Blood Warriors are much larger and while 3 dollars more expensive the models simply do not compair sizewise. Better put you get much more plastic there. Again if you want to see the actual models side-by-side say so. Anyone can look good with pro-painted or photoshopped models. It's not how they come out of the box.

However you want to compair two models, that's fine by me:

This are Fennblades out of the box:


This are Skullreapers out of the box:


So if you have not ever handled Privateer Press models the difference barring the massive mold line you might think the plastic quality is similar. It seems to me like you clearly have never handled these Privateer Press models. Because let me tell you, it isn't the same quality, it never was and for whatever reason your paying more for it per plastic quantity with Privateer Press. This means you do not get any additional bits to convert or have parts which you can choose from, in fact the only unique options in that case are Iron Fang Pikemen who do have a different shield option.

Anyone is free to get whatever they want. Interestingly though the examples you chose for the Khorne warriors actually have a great deal with AoS too. Fact of the matter remains that you can choose to not go GW and pay more for a worse quality. Even funnier is that several of the prices you mention from PP are not their prices. E.g. Mage Hunter Strike Force costs $40 and Fenblades are much smaller as Skullreapers. 

If you want to compair the two know your getting a lower quality with PP for sure. Wyrd's products are close but also much more expensive per model count. 

Wow, you show two pictures, one unassembled, unglued, and fresh out of the box snap-fit figure for PP, and one clearly assembled, cleaned, based, and GREENSTUFFED GW figure to try to prove your point. Also considering one is 7 years old, and one is 2 years old?

Wyrd's cards are still up to date for pretty much everything in plastic, the MK I cards are with the metals... because they were released before there was a new edition. They have only errata'd 12 cards [and most of them were true errata like adding "this effect ends when this model leaves play") How many times have I had to buy the space marines codex since 2009?

 Also, you keep ignoring the $30 price of the slaughter priest (or primaris apothecary/librarian/chaplain/captain). Or $25 for a Mad Doc That's highway robbery! Its no more detailed than a bloodreaver!

 

 

[Faedryd]

29 minutes ago, Red said:

Also, you keep ignoring the $30 price of the slaughter priest

Just buy Gorechosen for 45 € (the single Slaughter Priest is 23 €) and get the Slaughter Priest, three other Khorne heroes and a board game.

 

33 minutes ago, Red said:

That's highway robbery!

I doubt there is someone who forces you to buy anything from GW. I mean I would really like to get a Weiss Schwarz KanColle Abyssal Fleet deck, but I would have to buy boxes for hundreds of Euro and would probably still miss enough copies of some cards to build a competitive deck. That's why I don't get it.

 

GW products are cheaper than ever. Not every article of course, but there are some factions where you get a decent army just by buying a few SC boxes.

[mumperpa]

1 hour ago, Red said:

Wow, you show two pictures, one unassembled, unglued, and fresh out of the box snap-fit figure for PP, and one clearly assembled, cleaned, based, and GREENSTUFFED GW figure to try to prove your point. Also considering one is 7 years old, and one is 2 years old?

Wyrd's cards are still up to date for pretty much everything in plastic, the MK I cards are with the metals... because they were released before there was a new edition. They have only errata'd 12 cards [and most of them were true errata like adding "this effect ends when this model leaves play") How many times have I had to buy the space marines codex since 2009?

 Also, you keep ignoring the $30 price of the slaughter priest (or primaris apothecary/librarian/chaplain/captain). Or $25 for a Mad Doc That's highway robbery! Its no more detailed than a bloodreaver!

 

 

 I own the models Fennblades, and the mold lines are bad enough. In a unit of 10, they have 4 poses that are used twice, and a pose that is used 3 times! Some of the arms don't fit, and they have no customization. The characters might seem expensive, but trollbood warcasters are $18-27 apiece, for metal models many of which are old sculpts. The models are about the same size, with some trolls being smaller. 

[Red]

6 minutes ago, mumperpa said:

yes, and the fennblades are the 2 year old ones, im assuming? The plastics came out at the beginning of Mark 3. I own the models, and the mold lines are bad enough. In a unit of 10, they have 4 poses that are used twice, and a pose that is used 3 times! Some of the arms don't fit, and they have no customization. The characters might seem expensive, but trollbood warcasters are $18-27 apiece, for metal models many of which are old sculpts. The models are about the same size, with some trolls being smaller. 

the fennblades were from 2010... They just got starter boxed for MK III. The earliest unboxing I found for the wrath mongers was 2015.

 

 

34 minutes ago, Faedryd said:

Just buy Gorechosen for 45 € (the single Slaughter Priest is 23 €) and get the Slaughter Priest, three other Khorne heroes and a board game.

 

I doubt there is someone who forces you to buy anything from GW. I mean I would really like to get a Weiss Schwarz KanColle Abyssal Fleet deck, but I would have to buy boxes for hundreds of Euro and would probably still miss enough copies of some cards to build a competitive deck. That's why I don't get it.

 

GW products are cheaper than ever. Not every article of course, but there are some factions where you get a decent army just by buying a few SC boxes.

Unfortunately gore chosen isn't sold anymore (and its $60, so 2X the price of a slaughter priest). BUT, that brings the price down to $15 per figure, which is similar to Wyrd's prices, and not blatant highway robbery. They can clearly make some money at this price [in addition to the cost of creating a whole new game + components], so that's what leads people to question these particular prices.

[Faedryd]

52 minutes ago, Red said:

Unfortunately gore chosen isn't sold anymore (and its $60, so 2X the price of a slaughter priest). BUT, that brings the price down to $15 per figure, which is similar to Wyrd's prices, and not blatant highway robbery. They can clearly make some money at this price [in addition to the cost of creating a whole new game + components], so that's what leads people to question these particular prices.

My fault, it's just the German version of Gorechosen which is still available.

But whatever, I got back into the hobby in November and I'm still flashed about all the possibilties of saving money (relatively, the cheapest way is still to don't buy anything) with all this different boxes, compared to 2003/2004 when I first started with WHFB/40k. Not just with the Start Collecting boxes, also the Battleforce, Skirmish and other form of boxes. Sure, there've been boxes which saved you some money as well, but not in this dimension.

Are there cheaper miniatures? Of course. But like I said before, no one is forced to buy any GW product.

[PlasticCraic]

Probably like a lot of people I was gobsmacked at the prices when I got back into the hobby after a long gap...and I still keep forking out for them.  Worth every cent imo, although as others have correctly pointed out that's easy for me to say as someone who can afford those prices. 

Even there though, I would argue that when a lot of people who say they can't afford it, what they really mean is they can't afford an unending torrent of all the latest hotness + all the cool back catalogue stuff they always wanted, all at the same time, every week.  I believe that most people could afford to build up an army over the course of a couple of years max, if it's what they wanted to do, like I did with my first army way back when.

(As a kind of an aside...I think the weekly release cycle is the smartest business decision they ever made.  This stuff is habit-forming!)

Only one thing I would disagree with in your series of excellent posts @Dave Fraser is that I'm not so sure GW don't listen to customer feedback on pricing.  It's well-documented by those with their ear to the ground (and their foot in the door) that GW actively monitors Social Media to gauge the mood of the community - it's a big part of the whole "New GW" position they've taken, to great effect.  It's still a "premium product at a premium price", which is great because it means we get better minis than ever -  but the pricing strategy has become more stratified.  The Start Collecting boxes are the obvious example, but also the smaller starter sets like Thunder and Blood give a variety of jumping-on points, and the Shadespire boxes are close to pocket money / paper round prices.

So I would argue that they have already tweaked their pricing levels downwards - maybe not via a crude price drop across the board, but something a little more sophisticated than that.  This has helped them find the "sweet spot" (from a business point of view) and they are enjoying booming sales while maintaining healthy margins - and I would argue that constructive feedback has probably played a role in that.

On 12/5/2017 at 1:54 AM, Dave Fraser said:

Is there merit to discussing pricing of anything GW makes? I'd argue not really unless you are a management accountant/director working for GW, but we all do it anyway.  As a consumer we all feel we're knowledgeable about these products but I honestly don't have the vaguest clue about how GW generate their pricing, beyond the very high level principle of such that they make a profit, or think that community input (at least in the discursive format) will ever lead to pricing changes. 

Prices will change as a result of - products not selling or changes in underlying costs & drivers to the business, so in that regard I totally agree with your sentiment Twitch of Iz

 

 

[Killax]

8 hours ago, Red said:

Wow, you show two pictures, one unassembled, unglued, and fresh out of the box snap-fit figure for PP, and one clearly assembled, cleaned, based, and GREENSTUFFED GW figure to try to prove your point. Also considering one is 7 years old, and one is 2 years old?

Wyrd's cards are still up to date for pretty much everything in plastic, the MK I cards are with the metals... because they were released before there was a new edition. They have only errata'd 12 cards [and most of them were true errata like adding "this effect ends when this model leaves play") How many times have I had to buy the space marines codex since 2009?

 Also, you keep ignoring the $30 price of the slaughter priest (or primaris apothecary/librarian/chaplain/captain). Or $25 for a Mad Doc That's highway robbery! Its no more detailed than a bloodreaver!

How many pictures do you want to see? Mind you that Skullreaper is not greenstuffed, it's tacked with putty so you can paint the parts seperate. You chose to compair the two in your example/If you want to see two models from 2014 again feel free to ask, I'm open for a PP to GW comparison if you are.

As before, I'll thake pictures of the whole Khador line compaired to Chaos if you want to. The comparison starts the moment we are going to compair models from late 2000's from GW to PP's current line.  What I see, with all respect to you, is that you clearly havn't handled a Privateer Press model before. Most who have do not try to inform a forum of how great PP's quality is and how wonderful it compairs to GW's quality. The reality is that PP uses worse quality PVC/restic for their lines. It's akin to Chinese recaster quality, something I can show you aswell if you want to.

Wyrd's cards have been updated several times, again not all boxes have updated cards. They do have a wonderful site where you can buy the updated cards, or the updated card packs. The alternative is to have the PDF and print them yourself. Made to last? No, really not. 
Link to where you can (or must) buy updated cards: http://www.wargamevault.com/browse/pub/5162/Wyrd-Miniatures/subcategory/9801_24297/Individual-Cards?word-variants=true&test_epoch=0
Link to updated card sets: https://giveusyourmoneypleasethankyou-wyrd.com/collections/m2e-books-accessories/products/wyr20014
With Privateer Press all cards since Mk3 are now pretty much outdated and because of that they basically have stored them online to view (yes, that's akin to the Age of Sigmar app but if you want them on an app you still have to pay for it): https://cards.privateerpress.com/ So again another example of cards not made to last  

I don't really ignore the price for the Slaughterpriest, I am aware that it comes with pretty much every discount set that other compagnies don't offer.
- Gorechosen contains a Slaughterpriest. It's still available in many brick and mortar stores.
- Start collecting Bloodbound contains a Slaughterpriest.
- Blades of Khorne army contains a Slaughterpriest.
- Lastly if you want to, it isn't even difficult to convert a Skullreaper into a Slaughterpriest and unlike some compagnies these conversions are no issue to the game.  

Looking forward to inform you furthermore, feel free to ask model comparisons. 

As someone who plays all these games I can inform you I really liked Mk2 Warmachine but can't say PP has retained such a great game with Mk3, partially because of their card policy. I love Malifaux and think it's one of the best strategy games out there but as before it's not like they are a cheaper choice as GW. Likewise playing Warmachine currently is most certainly not cheaper as playing AoS. The prime reason why this is the case is because GW now offers up to 6 "combo deals" which allow you to expand your army very quickly for a very reasonable price at the end of it. This is also why GW is gaining so much gamers. Since 2015 they have an extremely good price policy versus quality.

Cheers,

 

[stratigo]

On 12/5/2017 at 10:51 AM, AGPO said:

Like many things it depends on what you're actually paying for. For me 6€ on coffee and a pastry in one of my favourite cafés is also a couple of hours working somewhere which isn't my home office, which is beneficial in a lot of ways. It makes a difference to my energy levels and productivity with the rest of the day, which is directly related to my income. Same is true of a lot of things. Taken in isolation getting a suit dry cleaned for a single day is a waste of money, but if it helps you land your dream job it's the best 10€ you'll ever spend.

Whether or not Warhammer is good value to you or not is going to depend on many things. If you enjoy painting and modelling, then that's an extra return on your investment, if not it's another cost in terms of time before you can actually play with your toys. Likewise, if you play a lot of games, you're going to get a better €/hours of fun return than if you rarely play. Then there's the diminishing returns for players who already have large collections of toy soldiers to play with. 

Yeeeah. That's not how value works. Blithely accepting everything is worth a whole lot of money is dumb. It does not benefit you or me or any other consumer to just shrug and accept over inflated prices because "Well you can get some value maybe under these vary narrow circumstances". That just means you get bilked for more money because you accept that it's okay for a company to charge vastly more than the cost of making a product. I wish more consumers were better informed.

[Killax]

One of the things I can confirm is that currently GW's prices are most certainly good value for their money. However I say this also because despite several compagnies trying, many can actually not create the same level of detail for the same price with the same materials. Anyone dissagreeing is free to give an actual example of quality being on par with GW's for that price point.

We are also getting into an age of plastic with GW and as a veteran gamer would not dissagree with, plastic models are actually the most comfortable to work with. The issue with metal models is that paint still chips if you use Acryl (plastic) paint on them and while resin models hold deep detail even better as plastic the downside with resin is that it's actually really bad for your health if you start chipping away at it (with knife, file or saw), requires extensive cleaning and in several cases is much more brittle as plastic is.

So what we end up with is that GW can't even really be compaired completely but what I can say is that they are currently the most hobby friendly business. Not only because of their ranges but because new-GW's set up towards customers AND retailers. For long a new hobbyist just had to figure out their hobby along their own path. Now GW has 100+ videos on how to assemble and paint your miniatures, quite the learning experience. 

What your paying for in context is again better as the "competition" provides currently. But in reality there still is no real competition for GW unless they start doing a 40K 6th-7th edition approach and basically neglect their Fantasy game. I don't think they'll do that twice  

Am I saying you MUST get GW stuff? Absolutely not, again I'm open to any other compagny who can provide more interesting products but in reality there are very few who can.

[stratigo]

On 12/7/2017 at 5:56 AM, Killax said:

GW's prices where always on a high standard and indeed the logic for it is very difficult to find. Part of the reason could be the mold cost which probably has different costs attached to it also.

What I do see however is that many great deals are available now and back when I did play WFB such deals where always wished for but never given. The army deals that where around where very limited deals, with a limited model and there often was somewhat of a run for them if they where made for popular armies. For example, I've seen the Orcs and Goblins deal stick around for way too long but Space Marines, Chaos Warriors or even that of Ogre Kingdoms where sold practically the week we had them in our local store.

As a player of many games however I will say that Games Workshop currently speaking is at a very affordable cost for the hobby involved. What I mean by this is that both Age of Sigmar and Warhammer 40.000 are cheaper as many other game alternatives. Examples of those would be Warmachine and Hordes, producing certainly a lower quality of models but still present GW prices and much less army deals or even compaired to Malifaux where a Shadespire Warband is actually cheaper as the Malifaux Warbands. Then lets not even start discussing what happend to MtG prices since 2010. The former cheap format, Standard, now typically requires competitive decks on par with 1.5-2K Warhammer armies.

 

The deals exist because the current leadership of GW is aware that prices are dumb, but is still bound to never ever lower them. GW's pricing isn't... bad. It's bizarre if you think about it in a purely logical profit making way. They'd sell more if they lowered prices to a reasonable level across the board. BUT, they can't. Once a product is priced, it will remain that price whether it is selling like hotcakes or not selling at all, because they are bound to not change it.

 

I mean, vulkite berzerkers are my favorite example of this. The start collecting is great value. The berzerker box is awful. The start collecting box is great because the vulkite box is awful, but GW can never correct that particular awful.

On 12/7/2017 at 6:07 AM, RuneBrush said:

Actually the biggest reason is because we all pay it...  GW offers a premium product at a premium price and although as things go, ours is cheap hobby, GW wouldn't be able to continue charging high prices if we didn't all buy the stuff

That does sound little brainwashed there.

 

On 12/7/2017 at 6:22 AM, Ollie Grimwood said:

It’s probably also to do with Oz having higher costs genarally, wages, property, cost of living etc.  All makes the GW operation there more expensive to run.  So they’ll need to charge more. When they printed profit by area breakdowns in the financial statements the profit percentage in Australia was lower than that of the UK and US.  

Forge World operates directly from the UK and I understand their prices are more uniform which would fit with that  

On prices in general GWs profit margin last year was about 25% rising from about 10% for the last few years 

Nah, it's 100 percent tarrifs and protectionist laws. GW's manufacturing is all UK based. Every single model you buy (for now) is made in jolly old england and then shipped to a warehouse somewhere. Which means GW still has to pay Australia even for models you see in the store.