'Competitive' Ironjawz

[Chris Tomlin]

On ‎22‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 3:07 PM, Gorks Pokin' Finger said:

I recently joined WhatsApp and heard there's a few AOS groups for specific factions. Is there an Ironjawz WhatsApp group up and running?

I've considered setting one up.

@Morglum StormBasha - I mentioned this on my podcast this week, but stress that this is purely speculative at this point. We don't know what, if anything, it means. I would definitely suggest waiting before jumping the gun and getting into discussions on this.

I can't wait to have something solid and start discussing Ironjawz lists under the new climate of GH2!

[KnightFire]

Theorycrafting: If gore gruntas were down to 140 points for 3, and everything else stayed the same, what lists would people run?

 

 

[Solaris]

1 hour ago, KnightFire said:

Theorycrafting: If gore gruntas were down to 140 points for 3, and everything else stayed the same, what lists would people run?

 

 

One helluva lot of Gruntas in a Gorefist.

[Jesper77]

Lets say 140 for Gruntas and 600 for Gordrakk.

 

This would be 2000p I think

2x3 gruntas

2x3 gruntas

2x3 gruntas

2x3 gruntas

x2 Warchanters

Gordrakk

Gorefist

 

Looks like a cool list.. todays point it would be 2420p The list got 147wounds and 4 drops. 

 

[Solaris]

I'd be more inclined to just run 9-12 of them and use them to block the entire enemy army off t1. The speed and bulk would allow so much board control.

[Fungrim]

16 hours ago, KnightFire said:

Theorycrafting: If gore gruntas were down to 140 points for 3, and everything else stayed the same, what lists would people run?

 

 

I'd be tempted to drop the Ardboys and squeeze in an extra set of Gruntas and a Warchanter. So:

Maw

Megaboss

Warch x2

Shaman

Brutes(10)x1

Brutes(5)x2

Gruntas(3)x2

Ironfist

 

OR, keep the Ardboys, drop the Shaman, and just add an extra Gruntas. So:

Maw

Megaboss

Warch

Brutes(10)x1

Brutes(5)x2

Ardboys(10)x1

Gruntas(3)x2

Ironfist

 

That said! I genuinely can't see them dropping *just* the Grunta cost  (fingers crossed)

[Chris Tomlin]

Perhaps a new thread is better for speculation boyz?  

[Solaris]

10 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Perhaps a new thread is better for speculation boyz?  

Why? Speculation about the future of competitive Ironjawz fits solidly within this topic. I know that you prefer not to, but I don't see why others should be prevented from theorizing if they like

[Chris Tomlin]

[Dieselfruit]

Hey dudes - long time lurker, first time poster. I have a 2000 point tournament coming up in a few weeks and have been getting a few practice games in, as I've not really played much! Both games I've played so far have been smaller, and both saw my dudes wrecked but controlling enough objectives to force a draw. So, I think I need a little help on tactics.

I'm playing a guy next week which should be my first full-sized game. He's playing Khorne, and he's bringing a Council of Blood with three (!) Bloodthirsters, supported by a Gore Pilgrims battalion (Bloodsecrator, couple Slaughterpriests, and Reavers + Warriors). I'm a bit worried about his big daemons, as the battalion as the potential to mulch through heroes and smaller units. Right now the list I have is fairly limited by what models I have, but it looks something like this:

• Megaboss on Maw Krusha - Choppa and Rip-tooth Fist- Talisman of Protection
• Megaboss - Battlebrew
• Black Orc Big Boss - Deff-choppa and shield
• Warchanter
• 10 Brutes - Jagged Gorehackas, General (Ravager)
• 5 Brutes - Choppas
• 5 Brutes - Choppas
• 10 Ardboys - 5x twin choppas, 5x big choppas
• 3 Goregruntas
• Ironfist
• 1980/2000

Soo pretty standard. General plan is to screen the brutes with the Ardboys and try and tarpit the little guys, while doing my best to keep the Bloodthirsters apart and bogged down. If I can get a charge off with the Mawkrusha first and focus one of them down, I think I'd be in good shape. Gruntas I'll try and kite around back and smoke the Bloodsecrator if I can. I'm taking the Big Boss rather than the Weirdnob, because near as I can tell the hate for wizards is real in a Khorne army, and I feel the points are better spent on getting stuck in combat, but I worry the lack of mortal wounds might be a problem. I'm thinking it might be better to split the brutes 15/5, but I don't have them modeled - I'm sure he'd be okay with a proxy. I'm working on the assumption that the tournament is cool with non-hero generals as well (they've not said as much otherwise)

What does everyone think? Thanks for your help in advance, and I look forward to posting more!

[Morglum StormBasha]

Hi Chris, understood it's pure speculation but having now seen the relevant pages myself I think you're right to speculate that they'll drop. I'd also look over at the daughters of khaine list on the same page if you want to see undeniably large points reductions...doomfire warlocks should be 8 renown (8 x 5 x 5 =200) they are 6 implying a 40-50 point reduction. This cannot be based on playtesting skirmish itself as anyone who has played hinterlands can tell you units which cast spells are murder and very undercosted in low model games 

...but I'll leave further speculation for another thread on Saturday when everyone has the book in hand.

[Chris Tomlin]

10 hours ago, Morglum StormBasha said:

Hi Chris, understood it's pure speculation but having now seen the relevant pages myself I think you're right to speculate that they'll drop. I'd also look over at the daughters of khaine list on the same page if you want to see undeniably large points reductions...doomfire warlocks should be 8 renown (8 x 5 x 5 =200) they are 6 implying a 40-50 point reduction. This cannot be based on playtesting skirmish itself as anyone who has played hinterlands can tell you units which cast spells are murder and very undercosted in low model games 

...but I'll leave further speculation for another thread on Saturday when everyone has the book in hand.

@Morglum StormBasha - Oh agreed, it's definitely not speculation to say that's what is in the Skirmish book. If you listen to my podcast review of the book we discuss this as fact (having the book in hand). What I meant was the implication that this is what the General's Handbook 2 will contain is pure speculation at this point.

Whilst I get that it might be fun, I still think that hypothesising how lists will change due to a potential points change in Gore-gruntas alone seems somewhat fruitless (to me anyway) without full context of the book... if that makes sense?

However, far be it for me to say what you guys want to discuss here and if you think this is relevant to current competitive Ironjawz lists, then crack on! As previously stated I think this thread will probably need a reset once the GH2 drops so we can start afresh and knuckle down once again.

@Dieselfruit - Welcome to the forum, good first post mate

Nice list you've got there, as you say reasonably standard but should do you well in general. I get why you're going for the Black Orc Big Boss in this particular game, but will the tournament itself let you tailor from game to game like this. All in all the Weirdnob Shaman is a better pick than the Big Boss (wow, who'd have thought I be saying that! Funny how opinions change). I tend to find for tournament practice sometimes you do have to suck up a bad match up and tailoring will give you a blurred perception.

Blades of Khorne is a very tough match up for us in general, they do what we do, but better! However the Council of Blood list is a little different and tbh plays into our favour. You'll find you'll be able to deal with the Bloodthirsters using the Megabrutes (see below), gotta love those rerolls. I would probably prioritise them as targets if possible. This will likely leave him with a large number of bodies still, so it'll be by no means easy.

I would say if your opponent is half decent there is zero chance of your Gore-gruntas getting into his Bloodsecrator. I think using them as a screen (turn bases side on) as well as the Ardboys is probably more useful, depending on the Battleplan. If he brings Wrathmongers then Gore-gruntas are a decent option vs them.

Most of your others thoughts and plans seem reasonable enough and I would 100% suggest you turn that 10 Brute General unit into a 15 Megabrute General unit!!

Good luck and let us know how it goes. Sorry for slightly rushed and vague response!

[Dieselfruit]

@Chris Tomlin - thanks very much for the advice, not vague at all! I think you're probably right with swapping the Weirdnob back in, keeping the list as close to what it'll look like in the tourney is better in the long run. Just need to get comfortable with using magic - and that he's probably not going to accomplish much with a buffed up bloodsecrator and slaughterpriests. Potential to use him as bait though..?

Will definitely report back with how it goes. Going to try and get a couple games in this weekend down at the local shop as well - eager to give the Megabrutes a spin

[Chris Tomlin]

Sounds good @Dieselfruit, did you manage to get any games in this weekend?

[Dragon10]

Would this army perform ok,

 

dont care about winning all the time just don't want to  be smashed all the time 

 

 

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Black Orc Big Boss (100)
- Deff Choppas 
Black Orc Big Boss (100)
- Deff Choppas 

Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (180)
-  Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (180)
-  Ironjawz Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)
-  Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
-  Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
-  Ironjawz Battleline

Total: 1980/2000
 

[Imperial]

16 hours ago, Dragon10 said:

Would this army perform ok,

 

dont care about winning all the time just don't want to  be smashed all the time 

 

 

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Black Orc Big Boss (100)
- Deff Choppas 
Black Orc Big Boss (100)
- Deff Choppas 

Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (180)
-  Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (180)
-  Ironjawz Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)
-  Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
-  Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
-  Ironjawz Battleline

Total: 1980/2000
 

I tried Black Orc Big Boss in games and he did not do anything. With Black Orcs it was good, but now better take one more Megaboss and one more Warchanter.

[Imperial]

Some one tried Warchanter with Meteoric Hammerblade in tournamets? I played the last few games with him and he showed himself very well against armies such as Death mixed (skeletons or zombies), Aelves and etc who have many models in units with small bases. Usually I applied 4-8 wounds on unit with 20-30 skeletons (4-8 after 2 death abilities versus mortal wounds)

[Chris Tomlin]

On ‎31‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 7:53 AM, Imperial said:

Some one tried Warchanter with Meteoric Hammerblade in tournamets? I played the last few games with him and he showed himself very well against armies such as Death mixed (skeletons or zombies), Aelves and etc who have many models in units with small bases. Usually I applied 4-8 wounds on unit with 20-30 skeletons (4-8 after 2 death abilities versus mortal wounds)

Yeh I used this at a tournament last year and found it ok. When telling my opponents about it I tried to instil a bit of fear with it and tbh I think the threat was probably more useful than the damage it actually did.

Truth be told I rarely find I have the spare Artefact slot nowadays. It's definitely fun though.

[Dieselfruit]

On 5/30/2017 at 6:40 AM, Chris Tomlin said:

Sounds good @Dieselfruit, did you manage to get any games in this weekend?

Right so! Ended up rescheduling a bit, but had that match up against Khorne this afternoon, and I  think it's fair to say I got trounced. But, had a good time, and my opponent Reuben was a Nice Dude who was happy to help when I was making errors.

I brought the standard list I posted earlier, with the exception of splitting up the 15 man brute squad into 10 and another 5. This was mostly because I won't be able to finishing building and painting another 5 dudes with spears for the tournament, so wanted to practice with what I had. Reuben brought his 3 Bloodthirsters - two Rage and a Wrath of Khorne - in the Council of Blood formation, plus a Gore Pilgrims battalion of a bloodsecrator, two slaughter priests, two 20 man reavers, and a 10 man blood warriors, plus Scyla Anfingrimm. 

We rolled for Gift of the Heavens and both deployed pretty conservatively, though I made a few mistakes. He deployed the big guys together centrally, with the priests and bloodsecrator in the middle to maximise his buff bubble. Reavers straight across the lot, with warriors and Scyla off to the side. I deployed 15 brutes, Megaboss, and Warchanter centre, Gore gruntas and Maw-Krusha right, and 5 brutes, Ardboyz, and weirdboy off facing Scyla. I got first turn and basically stayed put, moving the Maw-Krusha and pigs up a bit to put a bit of pressure on. He moved the Bloodthirsters up into each third of the table, bubble wrapping them in reavers.  The first picture below is what it looked like by the end of the turn. Second turn I won the roll off, and gave him the double turn to see where the gifts fell. His landed on the flank with the pigs and krusha, and basically just shuffled around more. On my turn I moved all the brutes up a bit, while attempting to move the Ardboys over try and make a speed bump. But, their destruction and ironfist rolls weren't great, so they didn't get over far enough. Weirdnob actually got Foot of Gork off on the central unit of reavers, but since he was  in  Bloodsecrator's 30" bubble he was forced to re-roll it, and of course it failed. Pigs and Krusha charged right - the gruntas mulched through most of the reavers but not enough for the Krusha to pile in properly, forcing him to waste his attacks on the little guys. Bloodthirster piled in and popped the Maw-Krusha in one combat round - not a great start, and board looked like the second pic. After that it all went downhill - big group of brutes and the megaboss charged the central bloodthirster, but again couldn't get through the reavers fast enough - and, worse, through some shoddy positioning the megaboss was left out of combat.

Third turn I won the roll off again, this time taking the first turn... and promptly lost 10 brutes during my hero phase as Reuben used the Blood Tithes he'd been building up to pile in and attack with his Bloodthirster. After that, pigs and brutes got mopped up, the left hand unit of brutes got bogged down with Scyla and lost most of the unit to battleshock, and the giant daemons mopped up the rest of the stragglers. Major victory to him.

All in all it was a good learning experience - as you said, @Chris Tomlin, the difficulty with Khorne is that they play quite similarly to Ironjawz, but have more buffs and tricks that they can be a bit more flexible. Looking back, I should have been a bit more patient - letting him come to me, deploying the ardboys as a speed bump from the get-go - and I genuinely think whoever got the right charge off first would win. As well, maybe, prioritising reaching the objective rather than eagerly charging into the big dudes might have been prudent. I think with an army like this positioning is super important, and forcing the opponent into charges they don't want to make so that the Brutes can be their most effective. Then again, if we both played defensively it would have been a much longer afternoon. Anyways, live and learn! Cheers for the help

[Fungrim]

Very impressive! - 

 

 

Might be worth a TBS interview @Chris Tomlin ?? Would love to know how his games went

[N_Watson]

I was at the event yesterday. Having seen Richard's army deployed on the table right next to me, it looked hard as nails.

Everyone has always said Ardboys are the competitive edge of Ironjawz. Nobody else seems to run the big blob though ?. I have 20 more unpainted, and just can't bring myself to do it. 

My mate wants to buy them off me now having seen Rich at work though!

[Fungrim]

MSU Brutes too, helping to avoid battleshock issues

Really like his list. Used to run 20 Ardboys and might go back to that. 30 feels a bit too many for me

[Solaris]

Cool, very interesting list. Very different from what you usually see.

[Luke.w]

Hey everyone, I am looking to make a competitive list for 2.5k. Wondering how this looks:

Maw Krusha 520  with Rampager command Trait and Talisman of Protection.

Warchanter 80  with Gem Of Seeing

Weirdfist 100

Weirdnob 120 with gem of seeing

3x 10 Ardboys  540

Ironfist 60

2x 10 Brutes 720

2x 3 Gore Gruntas 360

2500

 

Which weapons should I take?

Any advice on changes?

[Solaris]

22 minutes ago, Luke.w said:

Which weapons should I take?

Any advice on changes?

Double weapons on both Brutes and Ardboys, Klaw and Smasha on the Brute Boss. I'd split the Brutes up into 4 units of 5, rather than your two units of 10. The Weirdfist is awesome - it's not super competitive due to the chance of him getting sniped, but it's super fun to play. Who's your general?