'Competitive' Ironjawz

[Solaris]

I for one am not desperate in the slightest, since I just recently started out my Destruction army! I decided to give the Weirdfist a run in some friendly games since I didn't want to field anything too competitive. To my surprise, he kept blowing things more expensive than himself (well, battalion cost excluded) off the field. I agree with you both however, against a shooting heavy list it will struggle. So far, I only faced melee armies, and he's been untouchable except for a 12" charge by 20 Ghouls when I messed up.

I will try running him with the Vortex, yeah. I think for competitive play, it is too much of a point sink, but it will be a fun option to run in friendly games.

I still think there might be room for a Weirdfist in a competitive Ironjawz list. The best way to include it is probably target saturation with a MSU Brute approach, which incidentally is what is discussed a lot here at present.

[Sangfroid]

@Beau it does give you 2 chances to roll a 3+ (if a character is near) for your retreats but remember you cannot roll the Ironfist and the destruction move together as they are two separate abilities. 

Brutefist v Ironfist 

+ mortal wounds, negates charge blockers (assassins and fanatics), gives 2 bites of the charge cherry and also if successful happens before movement phase so you can then position units accordingly.  Encouraged you to use more brutes (that can never be a bad thing) 

- lose D6" of movement, lose ability to add in other units to a formation. 

Ive found in the 5 games I've played with it so far that Its good fun and it was my last game where I added in thengoregrutnas (instead of Ardboyz) and mawcrusha that it really began to click for me, as these two give you that speed, so your assault becomes 2-3 waves, 

pigs and crusha T1 charges

brute get in T2 and beyond. 

Its the only time I didn't miss the Ironfist 

[N_Watson]

So what would that list look like @Sangfroid? I have also had some success with the brutefist lately with MSU brutes and a Megabrute unit, but have you to play it with the maw crusher.

[mrstimpson38]

So what would that list look like [mention=109]Sangfroid[/mention]? I have also had some success with the brutefist lately with MSU brutes and a Megabrute unit, but have you to play it with the maw crusher.

 

Possibly...

 

Mawcrusha

Weirdnob

Brute x5

Brute x5

Brute x5

Brute x5

Brute x5

Grunta x3

Grunta x3

Brutefist

 

Changing either the two Grunta units into a single uniy, and/or the Weirdnob into a Warchanter. That would be my guess. I worry about scoring though.

[Sangfroid]

List was 

Megaboss (ravager, talsiman)

mawcrusha (battlebrew)

warchanter

warchanter

4 x 5 brutes (2 with choppas 2 with jagged hackas sitting behind first units)

2 x 3 goregruntas 

brutefist 

[Sangfroid]

Sorry posted same post 2 times from my pocket!

the list is small on bodies, but the idea is you put early pressure on with pigs (frenzy) and mawcrusha (battlebrew) so that the enemy is busy dealing with them while you run up the board (score) with rest of army then smash in T2. 

As with a lot of IJ tactics likes a double turn ;-)

[Chris Tomlin]

2 hours ago, Sangfroid said:

remember you cannot roll the Ironfist and the destruction move together as they are two separate abilities. 

 

This is really important. I see people get it wrong all the time. Makes such a big difference when it comes down to the nitty gritty.

The only time I will do it is T1 if my army is just pushing forwards and only with my opponents permission. ie;

"This unit is going to move directly forward the full distance no matter what I roll on Ironfist and Rampaging Destroyers. Do you mind if I roll both together?"

Something like that maybe. Speeds things up for both players and doesn't impact any decisions etc.

[N_Watson]

1 hour ago, Sangfroid said:

List was 

Megaboss (ravager, talsiman)

mawcrusha (battlebrew)

warchanter

warchanter

4 x 5 brutes (2 with choppas 2 with jagged hackas sitting behind first units)

2 x 3 goregruntas 

brutefist 

Going to try this out for the lols on Thursday this week. Just looks like a laugh to play. 

[N_Watson]

11 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

This is really important. I see people get it wrong all the time. Makes such a big difference when it comes down to the nitty gritty.

The only time I will do it is T1 if my army is just pushing forwards and only with my opponents permission. ie;

"This unit is going to move directly forward the full distance no matter what I roll on Ironfist and Rampaging Destroyers. Do you mind if I roll both together?"

Something like that maybe. Speeds things up for both players and doesn't impact any decisions etc.

Yes, I have been almost exclusively trying to practice my game speed rolling on at a time because it does make a difference. Tend to find my hero phase takes too long, so might start asking my opponents if they mind me doing this turn one, providing I roll things like mystical terrain first. 

[Chris Tomlin]

@N_Watson - If near Mystical then I'd roll one at a time to get the ordering right (depending on the desired result - staying in/out of Mystical). Remember you can roll Mystical at any point in the Hero phase. Most the time you'll probably just try to use your bonus moves to get outside of 3" of it so you never need to make the dreaded roll. That said there have been occasions I've stuck within 3" to get the easy bonus (2+ is easy....right?)!

[Solaris]

7 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

@N_Watson - If near Mystical then I'd roll one at a time to get the ordering right (depending on the desired result - staying in/out of Mystical). Remember you can roll Mystical at any point in the Hero phase. Most the time you'll probably just try to use your bonus moves to get outside of 3" of it so you never need to make the dreaded roll. That said there have been occasions I've stuck within 3" to get the easy bonus (2+ is easy....right?)!

Super easy, except when you 100% certainly, absolutely must succeed the roll. Then it's a guaranteed fail.

[N_Watson]

4 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said:

@N_Watson - If near Mystical then I'd roll one at a time to get the ordering right (depending on the desired result - staying in/out of Mystical). Remember you can roll Mystical at any point in the Hero phase. Most the time you'll probably just try to use your bonus moves to get outside of 3" of it so you never need to make the dreaded roll. That said there have been occasions I've stuck within 3" to get the easy bonus (2+ is easy....right?)!

Ye, rules as written I understand this, but the events in Stirling house rule it that you role this at the start, so you can't move in or out to benefit/be punished. 

*Edit* just actually checked the pack for my next tournament and it doesn't have this house rule in it, so that's a relief. In my group we always tended to play it at any point in the hero phase* 

[Lord Biscuit]

7 hours ago, N_Watson said:

Yes, I have been almost exclusively trying to practice my game speed rolling on at a time because it does make a difference. Tend to find my hero phase takes too long, so might start asking my opponents if they mind me doing this turn one, providing I roll things like mystical terrain first. 

I use two different dice to differenciate them; one represents Ravenger, one represents ironfist. That way, the roll can be resolved with one roll, but both actions can be preformed separately.

[N_Watson]

6 minutes ago, Lord Biscuit said:

I use two different dice to differenciate them; one represents Ravenger, one represents ironfist. That way, the roll can be resolved with one roll, but both actions can be preformed separately.

The problem with that is that by rolling them both at the same time, you know how far you will be able to move with both rolls when you move for the first one. 

For example, you roll a dice for ravager, you get a 3, so you know you can move 5, but you don't know how far you will get with your ironfist.

If you roll both at the same time and get. 3 for both, you know you can move 8 inches, hence technically seeing the future? 

The correct way to do it is make all of the ironfist or ravager moves before going on to the other, but this adds time. 

[Lord Biscuit]

1 hour ago, N_Watson said:

The problem with that is that by rolling them both at the same time, you know how far you will be able to move with both rolls when you move for the first one. 

For example, you roll a dice for ravager, you get a 3, so you know you can move 5, but you don't know how far you will get with your ironfist.

If you roll both at the same time and get. 3 for both, you know you can move 8 inches, hence technically seeing the future? 

The correct way to do it is make all of the ironfist or ravager moves before going on to the other, but this adds time. 

Ohhh true, I hadn't even thought of that.

 

I kind of wished either Ironfist or Ravenger added a static movement distance for this reason; rolling a dice twice gets really irritating when the fellow across the table is waiting for me to accomplish my hero phase!

[Chris Tomlin]

Well explained @N_Watson

8 hours ago, Lord Biscuit said:

I kind of wished either Ironfist or Ravenger added a static movement distance for this reason; rolling a dice twice gets really irritating when the fellow across the table is waiting for me to accomplish my hero phase!

Yeh I agree with this and had a short discussion about it in game with @Russ Veal at a recent event. It's good for us ruleswise, but is pretty clunky and time intensive. That said we don't have a shooting phase so the time probably balances out ok.

[Forestreveries]

That said we don't have a shooting phase so the time probably balances out ok.

That's not what I heard!





Sent from the Hidden Enclaves via the Realmroots

[Orruk]

Listening to Facehammer's podcast this morning. One of Russ' opponents was using a weird fist with a balewind vortex. Starting to think this is actually viable if you can keep your 320 point squishy model out of trouble / just smash off their shooting turn 1.

My question though is does the power of the waagh ability keeping stacking on the weirdnob? I.e. I know with 20 models you get +2 to cast, but do you get +3 to cast with thirty? I didn't think so but I think that's how Russ' opponent was playing it. 

My theory list would be:

megaboss battle brew bellowing tyrant

weird nob weird fist, talisman of protection

weird nob for mystic shield

warchanter

warchanter

10 brutes

5 brutes

6 gruntas

10 ardboyz

10 ardboyz

balewind vortex 

2000 points dead on

 

Weirdnob +3 to cast with vortex and 20 boyz , 4+/4++ save

anyone tried this?

Chris

 

[N_Watson]

19 minutes ago, Orruk said:

Listening to Facehammer's podcast this morning. One of Russ' opponents was using a weird fist with a balewind vortex. Starting to think this is actually viable if you can keep your 320 point squishy model out of trouble / just smash off their shooting turn 1.

My question though is does the power of the waagh ability keeping stacking on the weirdnob? I.e. I know with 20 models you get +2 to cast, but do you get +3 to cast with thirty? I didn't think so but I think that's how Russ' opponent was playing it. 

My theory list would be:

megaboss battle brew bellowing tyrant

weird nob weird fist, talisman of protection

weird nob for mystic shield

warchanter

warchanter

10 brutes

5 brutes

6 gruntas

10 ardboyz

10 ardboyz

balewind vortex 

2000 points dead on

 

Weirdnob +3 to cast with vortex and 20 boyz , 4+/4++ save

anyone tried this?

Chris

 

I have yet to try it with a Balewind, but it could be fun. You can't exceed a 3+ to the cast roll. 2+ from having 20 boys nearby and +1 for arcane scenery. 

It is still a cast roll of 7 needed, which is the average roll on 2d6 so it's by no means guaranteed. You fail that cast against something with long range shooting and you can't really guarantee the safety. 

Russ even went on to say how he failed the cast later. 

It's a massive investment for a 5 turn game. You are relying on a coin flip to do damage, so I don't see it being ultra competitive, but what is right now with ironjawz? Lol. 

Sure looks fun to play though. 

[Chris Tomlin]

@Orruk - Haha when I was listening to @Russ Veal talk about that, I was thinking "I bet people will think this is good now!".

Just imagine Russ had gone first in that game (or indeed his opponent had failed to cast that Foot of Gork), the likelihood is that he would've been in a position to target and delete the Weirdnob with his two Warp Lightning Cannons, then we have a very different battle report.

I think the big big problem is survivability. There is so much manoeuvrable, long range, high impact shooting in the meta at the moment. 320 points is a lot on such a frail model. I need to give it a go myself, but I worry the results will so swingy. Great against things that can't reach out and deal with the Shaman, but awful against things that can. I'm concerned that more and more armies are falling into the latter category though.

On the flipside, it's undeniable that the Weirdfist boosted Shaman on Balewind offers something very different to our army that we are otherwise gravely lacking, so I would love for it to be a solid choice. It's definitely one of those things that could become a viable (or dare I say, a staple) choice given some points changes in GH2.

Still, I think your list looks decent and would be interested to hear how you get on. Have you played much with the 6 Gore-gruntas yet?

Oh, Power of the Waaagh caps at +2 as per the Warscroll. You can get +1 for Arcane, +1 for Balewind as well, makes Foot of Gork legit tbh.

Keep us updated with your progress  

[Solaris]

I would generally avoid Foot of Gork, unless you get +4 to casting rolls (+2 from Waaagh!, +1 from Arcane and +1 from Balewind). Just seems like a huge gamble. I would much rather use an Arcane Bolt that almost casts itself, with +12" range and +3 damage - seems like a much more solid option. Foot of Gork kind of feels like a noob trap to me, something to use when desperate but not otherwise.

[Chris Tomlin]

@Solaris - If you've listened to my podcasts, you'll know I agree with that sentiment entirely! I like "noob trap"!!

[N_Watson]

@Sangfroid - Tried that brutefist build with two gore gruntas list you were talking about today. I am in love. Whether it's the "best build" or not, it's the most fun I have had with Ironjawz in a while. 

I have coined it BOB (Big Orrucs Build) and just love how it looks on the tabletop.

Was playing against a mate's new Stormcast list and I had smashed almost all of it off the table turn 3 on blood and Glory.

Try this list guys. It is fun if nothing else.  

[Kevfle]

I used the weirdnob on balewind.  Got him in arcane terrain in 2 games for +4 on the first turn.  Got to kill the enemy general turn 1.  After the boys move up though, you're only getting a 2+.  In games without the arcane terrain, it didn't work as well.  It's fun, but dicey.  

[Kaptan]

On 2/20/2017 at 6:13 AM, Sangfroid said:

List was 

Megaboss (ravager, talsiman)

mawcrusha (battlebrew)

warchanter

warchanter

4 x 5 brutes (2 with choppas 2 with jagged hackas sitting behind first units)

2 x 3 goregruntas 

brutefist 

I will have to try that. I am on my way with painting my mawkrusha at the moment. I loved the look of @Roostmanuva's mawkrusha, so I made him/her a brother.