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'Competitive' Ironjawz


Malakithe

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6 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said:

I've never used the Boss Choppa as Klaw & Smasha seems so good! Thoughts on it?

I did the math on it a fair while ago, so this might not be 100% accurate, but from what I recall:

If the claw hits, the klaw+smasha does more damage. If the claw misses, the choppa does more damage. The average damage output is exactly the same for both options.

However, if the Brutes get to reroll 1s to hit, receive +1 to hit rolls or get +1 or even +2 attacks, then the klaw+smasha combo pulls ahead. Since we have these kinds of buffs readily available, I would always go for the klaw+smasha combo. At worst it is equivalent to the choppa.

Of course, if we receive similar debuffs (from fighting a Mournful or something) and no buffs, then the choppa would be better. This scenario doesn't really happen a whole lot in my experience though.

Also, if you already have 3-5 klaws, you may want to go for the choppa just for the variation :P

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1 hour ago, Kisada11 said:

That's really too bad because I love my ice blue cabbage.


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I am the same. I love my cabbage, but it is quite hard to use. 

I think there is a place for it though, and I'm tempted to run it just to have practice with it as I am confident we will see a points reduction. 

I had a rumour that the abhorrent ghoul king monsters were going to 300 and that the megaboss on Mawcrusher was getting a 100 point reduction. Was dakkadakka so take with plenty of salt, but I could see it given the alternative monsters we have with strong shooting/magic that are just as fighty. 

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This photo shows how to set up against warrior brotherhood style armies, the difference with Skyre is you make sure your counter attaking brutes (be it Megabrutes or small units) sit back at least 5.5" from the front of Ardboyz. Means you can't pile in and fight but stops the stormfiends vaporising your brutes on the drop. A double turn agaisnt you and your probably going down but you can only do so much at the end of the day agaisnt heinous filth such as Skyre. 

@Chris Tomlin I have just by chance been using Boss choppas (as I needed Grimgor proxy and I made one up form last box of brutes cause he can act as a jagged hacka in the Megabrutes if needed) they have performed well especially against infantry (goblins or vulkites berserkers) but..... 

*basically if the Klaw hits then mathematically you should on average do more damage (based on a 4+ save) but if it misses then damage is about even, so put simply without buffs it's probably 50/50 ;-) add in a waaagh or +1 to hit and I think Klaw runs away with it..... sadly as it's nice for variety, but then again a Boss with Klaw and smasha did 11 wounds to an araknarok last night with a waaagh and frenzy so why am I complaining!! #firstrealmproblems going to buy a box and make up 2 Klaws from left over bits methinks! 

IMG_0393.JPG* edit didn't see Solaris post sorry 

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2 hours ago, Sangfroid said:

*basically if the Klaw hits then mathematically you should on average do more damage (based on a 4+ save) but if it misses then damage is about even, so put simply without buffs it's probably 50/50 ;-) add in a waaagh or +1 to hit and I think Klaw runs away with it..... 

PLAGIARISM!

On another note, I've used similar setups with my TK against teleporting shenanigans like Warrior Brotherhoods and such. While it prevents you from getting outright crushed, a tight deployment like that makes the objective game harder for you, and easier for your opponent. I don't know any better way of going about it though.

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3 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

Is that white armor on your Jawz?

Close up pics?

Yeah they are Da Ghostwulfz so ulthuan grey, nuln oil (thinned coat all over) ulthuan grey layer, (nuln oil) dry brushed ulthuan and then white scar, then very thin nuln oil again, fine drybrush of white scar then dump a bucket of typhus corrosion and blood for the blood god all over it to hide the tatty painting :-) Going to add in fang style yellow for the tears (thanks to feedback from Mark Wildman) plus put leaves tufts and water on the bases. Anyway army all packed up for a mecenary trip away on loan for a,tourney but do have this of Sangzgit (other Megaboss Rotgor is black armour as is the chanters and mawcrusha) 

 

IMG_0460.JPG

IMG_0461.JPG

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18 hours ago, Forestreveries said:

Yeah it's a funny one. I think the more I look at it the more it seems advantageous for the Sylvaneth player.

Definitely happy with the trend seeming to be moving away from the cabbage though as he was a big part of the problem for us I feel.

I'm not sure it's moving away from the Cabbage tbh. I think some of my "best" lists leave him at home, but unfortunately down to painted models I do still seem to need to use him for events most the time (and also it gives me a better shot at best army!). It's not all bad though as I do maintain his rules are good. The inevitable price drop in GH2 will probably see it return as a staple anyway.

At present, I kinda feel like we are trying to come up with different lists almost for the sake of it and perhaps trying to find a killer build that probably isn't there. Me and @Sangfroid said similar on Whatsapp the other day...it's kinda all moot with the GH2 looming anyway!! That said, there are still a good few months before we see that and with a number of tournaments to be played, there certainly is relevance to such discussion.

I have an assembled Tzeentch army on my desk that I was going to speedpaint and switch to, but ya know, I'll keep plugging away at the Ironjawz for now I think - we'll see how I get on with them at Sheffield. I'm so bi-polar on Ironjawz recently! Give us a new book and models already G-dub!! ;) 

As for the Brute Boss...I had a quick look myself. I'm not really one for percentages and decimals in my Warhammer, I'll leave that to you nerds! :P I would agree though, it appears that as soon as you start buffing the units (which I find I almost always do!), the Klaw & Smasha seems significantly better. That said, when it comes to assembling my 7th and 8th boxes of Brutes, I think I will go with the Boss Choppa just for some variety haha!!

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Nobody in my group would pick up ironjawz currently due to how much I complain about what we don't have when I need to play these sylvaneth and Stormcast armies. 

Even though deep down, I do love my green machine of face punching, crotch kicking maniacs. 

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I'm putting together a force with 3 (THREE!) megabosses in it. Anyone had any experience with this?

Every time I write my list I end up with a few too many spare points that I'd usually either fill with a Shaman or a Warchanter, so figured adding a third megaboss in could be interesting. 

One to sit slightly further back, the other two to be used more offensively.

Thoughts?

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3 hours ago, Fungrim said:

I'm putting together a force with 3 (THREE!) megabosses in it. Anyone had any experience with this?

Every time I write my list I end up with a few too many spare points that I'd usually either fill with a Shaman or a Warchanter, so figured adding a third megaboss in could be interesting. 

One to sit slightly further back, the other two to be used more offensively.

Thoughts?

Sounds really interesting!

Can you share the full list? Giving it some context would be great, but my initial reaction is; COOL!

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21 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Sounds really interesting!

Can you share the full list? Giving it some context would be great, but my initial reaction is; COOL!

Yeah no problem. This is what I'm thinking of. Only been playing with them a few months so still getting a feel for it, been using 2 bosses so far and really like them. 

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Trait: Bellowing Tyrant
- Artefact: Talisman of Protection
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Battle Brew
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Jagged Gore Hackas
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (180)
- Pig Iron Choppas
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (180)
- Pig Iron Choppas
- Ironjawz Battleline

Battalions
Ironfist (60)

Total: 2000/2000
 

That's the list I'm building toward (just need the third megaboss now). If it works well on the table I'll be taking it to Heat 2 I think.

The MegaGeneral gets Bellowing Tyrant, figured that would be necessary as there's only space for one Warchanter. He also gets Talisman as he ideally needs to survive, as well as being fairly well advanced to make sure all the buffs happen.

 

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Quote

On another note, I've used similar setups with my TK against teleporting shenanigans like Warrior Brotherhoods and such. While it prevents you from getting outright crushed, a tight deployment like that makes the objective game harder for you, and easier for your opponent. I don't know any better way of going about it though.

This is a huge problem for any melee army. The Battleplans where you score each turn on objectives that are separate from each other are tricky. You may be able to make an effective charge of 34", but you've got nothing worthwhile to go for, meanwhile anything that leaves the safety of the bunker is in danger of getting cheaply deleted by the Warrior Brotherhood (pending resolution of whether the Warrior Brotherhood ceases to exist in just over 34 hours* - perhaps Gordrakk has gone around killing all of them which explains his absence from the tournament scene).

*It's a genuine coincidence (or tired maths on my part) that there are two references to 34 in this post. If it were 33, then we would know that Kairos is up to something.

 

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Damage vs Survivability/Mobility.

 

I wonder if taking something like this...

 

Megaboss (general, BT, BB)

Brutes x5

Brutes x5

Brutes x5

Brutefist

 

Would output enough damage to urge players to take the MSU/Brutefist over the types of Brute compositions we've seen around here (ironfisted Brute x10/15, general).

 

It seems like the damage output from a more reliable Megaboss Command Trait and the extra Brutefist damage would be extremely high. To the point that if you figure out how to make them survive (Ardboy/Grunta screening, terrain, Mystic Shields), and you position them in such a way as to reduce the impact of losing the Ironfist, you could be dealing out over double the damage that they'd do in the larger unit/general setup.

 

What are your thoughts on this?]

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1 hour ago, mrstimpson38 said:

Damage vs Survivability/Mobility.

 

I wonder if taking something like this...

 

Megaboss (general, BT, BB)

Brutes x5

Brutes x5

Brutes x5

Brutefist

 

Would output enough damage to urge players to take the MSU/Brutefist over the types of Brute compositions we've seen around here (ironfisted Brute x10/15, general).

 

It seems like the damage output from a more reliable Megaboss Command Trait and the extra Brutefist damage would be extremely high. To the point that if you figure out how to make them survive (Ardboy/Grunta screening, terrain, Mystic Shields), and you position them in such a way as to reduce the impact of losing the Ironfist, you could be dealing out over double the damage that they'd do in the larger unit/general setup.

 

What are your thoughts on this?]

The Ironfist is basically just better than the brute fist. 

 

The only reason Ironjawz can deal with things that have range or can deal a lot of mortal wounds etc is because we can catch up to them, pin them down, and beat them hard ( ;) ).

Thus eliminating the 2xd6 disallows that huge movement and as a result you aren't able to get to people. You also can't leave combat as reliably in the hero phase with just one d6.

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What are you guys thoughts on the Weirdfist? I've been running it a few games now, and although expensive, it does add a stable source of mortal wounds. Getting 4-5 mortal wound Arcane Bolts off on 24-30" range with +1-2 to casting rolls is relatively reliable, I find. Also, I have wet dreams about one day being in position to get a good green puke off.

Do you have any experience with this formation?

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3 minutes ago, Solaris said:

What are you guys thoughts on the Weirdfist? I've been running it a few games now, and although expensive, it does add a stable source of mortal wounds. Getting 4-5 mortal wound Arcane Bolts off on 24-30" range with +1-2 to casting rolls is relatively reliable, I find. Also, I have wet dreams about one day being in position to get a good green puke off.

Do you have any experience with this formation?

I have tried it a few times, with varied success. I had a good game vs bloodbound with it once, then I tried it vs sylvaneth and they shot off the Wierdnob shaman turn one with teleporting kurnoth hunters. 

My main gripe with the formation is you get nothing for your 100 points once the Wierdnob is dead and he isn't the easiest model to hide. 

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On ‎18‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 11:43 PM, mrstimpson38 said:

Damage vs Survivability/Mobility.

I wonder if taking something like this...

Megaboss (general, BT, BB)

Brutes x5

Brutes x5

Brutes x5

Brutefist

Would output enough damage to urge players to take the MSU/Brutefist over the types of Brute compositions we've seen around here (ironfisted Brute x10/15, general).

It seems like the damage output from a more reliable Megaboss Command Trait and the extra Brutefist damage would be extremely high. To the point that if you figure out how to make them survive (Ardboy/Grunta screening, terrain, Mystic Shields), and you position them in such a way as to reduce the impact of losing the Ironfist, you could be dealing out over double the damage that they'd do in the larger unit/general setup.

What are your thoughts on this?]

You need to speak with @Sangfroid. He's been playing around with ideas like this of late. Personally, I think it's interesting and I like the concept, however...

On ‎19‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 1:30 AM, Beau said:

The Ironfist is basically just better than the brute fist. 

The only reason Ironjawz can deal with things that have range or can deal a lot of mortal wounds etc is because we can catch up to them, pin them down, and beat them hard ( ;) ).

Thus eliminating the 2xd6 disallows that huge movement and as a result you aren't able to get to people. You also can't leave combat as reliably in the hero phase with just one d6.

I think I just agree with @Beau here, in theory at least. I have to say I haven't played with the Brutefist, so probably need to in order to validate my opinion. I like the idea of MSU Brutes as a workaround to the inevitable loss of the Big Boss General. Like @Beau though, I suspect I may still prefer sticking them in an Ironfist, though it's undeniable we are missing mortal wounds.

12 hours ago, Solaris said:

What are you guys thoughts on the Weirdfist? I've been running it a few games now, and although expensive, it does add a stable source of mortal wounds. Getting 4-5 mortal wound Arcane Bolts off on 24-30" range with +1-2 to casting rolls is relatively reliable, I find. Also, I have wet dreams about one day being in position to get a good green puke off.

Do you have any experience with this formation?

Lots of talk on different Battalions today, that's a good sign (I think. Perhaps we are just desperate!). Again, I haven't tried the Weirdfist but now my Weirdnob shaman is nearing completion I would like to try it out for sure. Again, theory is all I have and I just struggle to look past the Ironfist. You are paying a lot of points for the Weirdfist and as reliable (and good) as the damage is, I fear its pretty easy for a lot of armies to deal with. Especially given the prevalence of long range heavy (D3 damage) shooting in the meta.

Have you considered a Balewind Vortex? Seems nice, but amplifies my main issues; cost and vulnerability to shooting. Interested if anyone has had any joy with this, or if it is as big of a dud point sink as I fear it might be.

Chris

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