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'Competitive' Ironjawz


Malakithe

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Just now, Chris Tomlin said:

Hello and welcome @Geoff Ozzy!

Whilst this particular topic is dedicated to the discussion around pure Ironjawz, the subforum you find this topic in (marked; Destruction) is totally open to the Destruction Grand Alliance as a whole. So whether you wanna talk Orruks, Grots, Ogors, Troggoths, Gargants or anything else, it's all good!

Get a thread going and I'm sure there will be plenty of helpful people ready to chime in :) 

 

Thanks Chris!  I've been following the forums for a long time, but I thought I would finally get into them so I'm still new to navigating the forums to actually post something. 

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Hi @Geoff Ozzy, welcome aboard!

Da Boyz've been sharpenin' da Choppaz, ready to krump some pointy eared 'eadz in. Tonight Da Boyz are gonna roast marshmallows over da flames of a dead Flamespyre Pheonix and uvva panzee gitz!

I love the idea of the Megabrute mob, I'm thinking I might give this a whirl tonight...though it is only a 1000 point game. My one question is on the Ravager command trait, where in the FAQ does it say it only applies to the Megaboss? I mean I see it on a read through of the rule, but it can be interpreted both ways. 

Giv'm da choppa!

Dez

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1 hour ago, Dez said:

Hi @Geoff Ozzy, welcome aboard!

Da Boyz've been sharpenin' da Choppaz, ready to krump some pointy eared 'eadz in. Tonight Da Boyz are gonna roast marshmallows over da flames of a dead Flamespyre Pheonix and uvva panzee gitz!

I love the idea of the Megabrute mob, I'm thinking I might give this a whirl tonight...though it is only a 1000 point game. My one question is on the Ravager command trait, where in the FAQ does it say it only applies to the Megaboss? I mean I see it on a read through of the rule, but it can be interpreted both ways. 

Giv'm da choppa!

Dez

Ravager may only apply to the General and units within range of his Rampaging Destroyers. I am unsure if an official FAQ has been done on Ravager, but the Death +1 to ward trait was FAQ'd to only being on the general and units within range of his ward (heroes do not generate the +1 to the ward they give off).

In page 8 of the thread, many of the members agreed ravager works the same way in being generated as the death trait (not counting range).

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Well my friend argues that the Flamespyre Phoenix doesn't have to pay the points to bring it back once it's slain, so I suppose I've got a good argument for Ravager :)

 

I've also had another thought while looking at the Warscrolls again. Does anyone think that Ardboyz 'Uge Choppas being a range of 1" is a misprint?

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Since I realized that you need to pay points for any unit of Ardboyz you bring onto the table with the Ardfist battalion I have to completely rethink how I'm building my Ironjawz when I take them for matched play night at the FLGS. Here's what I'm thinking about fielding and I'd like you guys to point out any obvious flaws.

Quote

 

1980/2000 - Bellowing Tyrant

Mega Boss - General - Battle Brew

Mega Boss - Battle Brew

Warchanter

Weirdnob

Ardboyz (10) - Big Choppas

Ardboyz (10) - Big Choppas

Brutes (10) - Choppas - Claw an' Smasha

Brutes (10) - Choppas - Claw an' Smasha

Gore Gruntas (6) - Big Boss - Choppas

Ironfist Battalion

 

I already have my brutes modeled with choppas, and am happy with choppas' performance even in groups of 10. But I do wonder if I should split them into units of five, and/or split the unit of Gore Gruntas up. Also, I don't have the Gore Gruntas modeled yet, but plan on using them just because of their movement and how great they look, but I'm not sure what's better. The +1 to hit, or the 2" range? I figure if they're in units of 6, maybe the 2" range wins, and if they're in units of 3, the +1 to hit? I'm almost leaning on choppas for gaming purposes and hackas for looks (the GGs look so boss with the hackas!), but I'm not sure if one is just flat out better than the other. I don't mind not using the full 2k, because the chance at a triumph boon is pretty awesome.

So what do you guys think? Is this list pretty well rounded, and what do you think about the unit sizes and loadouts?

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@mrstimpson38 list love the list the double Megaboss battlebrew combo is a beauty, I've used that now for a few weeks and has been brilliant. I have however occasionally rued not having extra warchanters but that usually disappears when a Megaboss goes in and kills 3 or 4 paladins in a single swing of his choppa. 

The brutes are your weak and strong point, two units of 10 means you can only protect one from battleshock @Chris Tomlin Has used 2x10 so check out his Da Black Sunz thread for some battle reports for his experiences, both of us have moved on to a large unit of 15 brutes (with the champ as the General) though that last part isn't manadatory. THis way you can Bellowing tyrant the big brutes, then make them immune to battleshock, point them at something juicy and go bashing. It makes ironjawz a lot more competitive but does put a lot of hope into one unit. My recent experiences at the UK masters has led me to decide that I'd have been better to take a 5 man brute unit alongside this (I took 3x10 Ardboyz 6 GG and 15 brutes in my Ironfist) 

the goregruntas for me should always have choppas because the extra +1 to hit means to get the same damage potential you only need 5 guys to be in combat and the base size means you can't attack in ranks anyway. I'm thinking that 2" weapons will have a use and might make things easier with battlefield movement a bit but goregruntas don't. Do an awful lot of damage anyway so I don't think you would notice a difference either way. 

Overall a good strong list to play ironjawz that alleviates a lot of the inherent weakness of the faction you will have some horror match ups but persevere and you will se pet that often you can do well in a scenario even though you are getting battered a bit :-)

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On 19/01/2017 at 10:02 PM, Drillz said:

So it seems like most of the lists I see on here have moved away from  Gordrakk and the megaboss on maw krusha and I'm curious why since one of the few units that dish out mortal wounds

To answer his question real quick: The mortal wounds are valuable, but their cost is also fairly large; A mawcrusher is worth two units of anything and a mega boss and Gorka is worth three anything and a boss, so people generally seem to take more numbers of wounds over a single very powerful until that is terrible vs mortal wound dealing lists. Scaven and Thundertusk lists particularly can brutalise Mawcrushers, the loss of which can be hard to get over unless they they get two turns of combat out of them.

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13 hours ago, Sangfroid said:

@mrstimpson38 list love the list the double Megaboss battlebrew combo is a beauty, I've used that now for a few weeks and has been brilliant. I have however occasionally rued not having extra warchanters but that usually disappears when a Megaboss goes in and kills 3 or 4 paladins in a single swing of his choppa. 

The brutes are your weak and strong point, two units of 10 means you can only protect one from battleshock @Chris Tomlin Has used 2x10 so check out his Da Black Sunz thread for some battle reports for his experiences, both of us have moved on to a large unit of 15 brutes (with the champ as the General) though that last part isn't manadatory. THis way you can Bellowing tyrant the big brutes, then make them immune to battleshock, point them at something juicy and go bashing. It makes ironjawz a lot more competitive but does put a lot of hope into one unit. My recent experiences at the UK masters has led me to decide that I'd have been better to take a 5 man brute unit alongside this (I took 3x10 Ardboyz 6 GG and 15 brutes in my Ironfist) 

the goregruntas for me should always have choppas because the extra +1 to hit means to get the same damage potential you only need 5 guys to be in combat and the base size means you can't attack in ranks anyway. I'm thinking that 2" weapons will have a use and might make things easier with battlefield movement a bit but goregruntas don't. Do an awful lot of damage anyway so I don't think you would notice a difference either way. 

Overall a good strong list to play ironjawz that alleviates a lot of the inherent weakness of the faction you will have some horror match ups but persevere and you will se pet that often you can do well in a scenario even though you are getting battered a bit :-)

Do you think it's worth while keeping one of the megabosses near the megabrutes to give the within 5" reroll 1's to hit?

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2 hours ago, Kaptan said:

Do you think it's worth while keeping one of the megabosses near the megabrutes to give the within 5" reroll 1's to hit?

Depends what you are facing. Putting them into something with less than 4 wounds, you will want one within 5 inches for rerolls. 

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Sorry guys been super super busy this week (even more so than usual) and am off to the United States tomorrow for Waaagh! Paca. Really need to catch up on this forum properly - I suck!

Anyway, I can at least offer you this (not so) little gem regarding Competitive Ironjawz....

Thanks again to my man @Sangfroid for coming on and chatting more Ironjawz. Great to hear of his experiences against the toughest lists and players the UK has to offer. I would hope that this is "Must listen" material for all Ironjawz players.

Give it a whirl.

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Still waiting on @Sangfroid to spill the beans on what he was saying about another list idea before you guys started digging into the games over the weekend..... 

Come on, spill!

*Edit* The nerve! The man has liked this post and no indication of the over powered ironjawz list he has constructed for himself!

Loved the episode guys!  

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I have a game this evening against a Gnarlroot filth list I played on Sunday. I had a cabbage that didn't get anything done until turn 4. Needless to say it was an embarrassing showing for the boyz. 

Playing him again but with this list. 

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Battle Brew
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Talisman of Protection
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: Talisman of Protection

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
15 x Orruk Brutes (540)
- General
- Trait: Bellowing Tyrant
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Units

Battalions
Ironfist (60)
Ironfist (60)

Total: 1980/2000

I will be sure to put a small report up tomorrow to let you guys know how we get on. 

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I'm excited to see how that works out for you [mention=960]N_Watson[/mention].

I think I'm going to try making the the Gore-Grunta boss the Ironfist Big Boss, and also the general. That way I can have the inspiring presence, and bellowing tyrant buffs on the most mobile and survivable unit in the army.

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Battle Brew
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Battle Brew
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (360)
- General
- Trait: Bellowing Tyrant
- Ironjawz Battleline

Units

Battalions
Ironfist (60)

Total: 1980/2000

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you won't need inspiring presence on the Gore-pigs (well you will if there was no other target of course) you want it on the Brutes, the brutes have bravery 6 so when 1 dies you can lose more to battleshock and they fold under pressure. The Gorepigs have 7 bravery so 2 need to die before you can fail battleshock 10 wounds v 3 wounds. 

That said having the pigs as the general and then using the IP on brutes isn't a bad shout as you can more easily keep in range of the 2 10 man units and then pick and chose which needs it most. 

Bellowing Tyrant is always going to be better on the brutes every time the pigs benefit of course but they need a lot more than +1 to hit to get anywhere near Unbuffed brutes let alone Buffed brutes :-)

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I don't intend to use the IP or BT buffs on the pigs, they will be a mobile (and survivable) buffing platform that can be in range of whatever needs the buffs at the time (while they're supporting whatever unit needs support). As a bonus, if they do focus the Brutes (when don't they focus brutes...) I'll still have the IP and BT buffs to hand out to the other Brutes and Ardboys (and pigs if they're left for last).

It makes the pigs a little more of a target and the opponent may question if they're going to try for them instead of the obvious Brute focus. I'll just have to see how it works out on the table. I think it may be more flexible to make the pigs the general in a 10 Brute x2 list (which you point out), where as it would be more fitting to make the Brutes the general in a 15 Brute x1 list.

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Ok, so was preparing to play Sylvaneth all week, and I end up playing a mixed Nurgle force which looked like this...

Leaders
Great Unclean One (240)
Festus The Leechlord (120)
Gutrot Spume (120)
Harbinger of Decay (140)

Battleline
10 x Plaguebearers Of Nurgle (100)
10 x Plaguebearers Of Nurgle (100)
10 x Plaguebearers Of Nurgle (100)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (360)
- Mortal Nurgle Battleline

Units
3 x Plague Drones Of Nurgle (220)
3 x Plague Drones Of Nurgle (220)
3 x Nurglings (80)
3 x Nurglings (80)

Battalions
Tallyband of Nurgle (100)

Total: 1980/2000

The mission was Take and Hold. 
It was good getting to play this mission as I haven't played it a lot (Out of choice more than anything because it doesn't excite me)

I had 1 more drop than them, so I was given first turn. Successfully buffed up my army while inching to just my side of the half way point, keeping 10 ardboys and the shaman next to my objective. I made an error in moving up the board as I neglected to move my other 10 ardboys with my 2 units of 5 brutes. 

My opponent playing nurgle was pretty slow, so he moved forward, playing for the double hoping to chaff up my megabrutes on the right flank and push into my left flank with his 10 Blightkings, Gutrot and the Harbinger. With some poor run roles, even if he went next, I was confident that I wasn't in much trouble. 

I win priority and give him the double. He blasts of one or two brutes with some magic, but gets no charges off. 

My turn two. I charge with my Megabrutes and Ardboys into his plaguebearers and drones. I make a mistake of not throwing enough attacks into the plaguebearers to wipe them, opting to kill two drones that were in range. He has his iconbearer in that unit and brings back 4 with the battle shock roll of 1...

I win the double, but can't really do what I want. I am stuck in a non-efficient combat  with my brutes, and if I give the turn to him, he can really punish my megabrutes as he has festus that can give me -1 to my save rolls and a Great unclean one who can pack a punch with with his sword.  
I decide to take the double, hoping to grind out the right flank with the megabrutes eventually, and charge my Megaboss and brutes into his left flank, hoping to reduce their numbers to the point that when it comes to capturing the objective, he doesn't have enough points. 
This is where I should have had my other unit of Ardboys. If I reduced surface area on my 2x5 brutes and Megaboss with them, I could have waited to receive the charge. My charging him was just playing into his hands, because I am never going to win a war of attrition against his army. 

He had Blightkings getting +1 to hit with lord of war and a 4+/5+ save due to the Harbinger. I think I killed the Plague bearers on the left, 2 drones and 2 blightkings with 1- brutes and a Megaboss. It was my undoing. 

Fetus ended up de-buffing my megabrutes to a 6+ save and due to nurglings piling into the the back of the brutes, I couldn't put all my attacks into the right stuff to even get enough points for a minor victory. 

I end up preventing the Major defeat, but give up a minor. 

I feel as if I played the first 2 turns well, other than not using my ardboys to screen my Megaboss and 2x5 brutes. I could have charged everything in, but I was patient and made sure I could withstand losing the priority, but putting myself in a good place for the double turn. Lesson I have learned is I need to make sure that if I am playing for the double, ensure the chaff unit is 100% dead if possible, and make sure that I have a unit screening my other hard hitters. Allowing something like 10 blightkings to throw 40+ attacks into my megaboss is not good. 

 

I have an event on the 25th of March which is a 2 day 2000 points Generals Handbook. Some notable things in the pack are

  • Ring of immortality doesn't require points
  • 1s always fail to hit/wound and 6s always succeed to hit/wound (Any special abilities that trigger on a roll of 6 will not apply if negative modifiers are in play.)
  • no duplicate artefacts

Due to the no duplicate artefacts, I am thinking that I shouldn't take the double Ironfist, and go down to 5 units. Not really sure what to double up to drop down to 5 units or if I should consider a 2nd Megaboss when only one can have a Battle Brew. 

Would be great if @Chris Tomlin and @Sangfroid could weigh in on any little alterations to this list to make it a bit more efficient. 

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Battle Brew
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Meteoric Hammerblade
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: Talisman of Protection

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
15 x Orruk Brutes (540)
- General
- Trait: Bellowing Tyrant
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Units

Battalions
Ironfist (60)
Ironfist (60)

Total: 1980/2000

Thanks in advance all!

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I kinda agree 2 Ironfists is excessive so you could 

1) turn the brutes into a brutefist 

2) drop 5 brutes and take 6 goregruntas then add in 3rd Warchanter or upgrade your second chanter to a Megaboss (one brew one talisman) 

3) same as 2) above but drop the gorepigs 

hope,that helps 

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Thanks @Sangfroid

I have toyed with the idea of the brutefist but just worry that they wouldn't be quick enough. Has anyone tried this before? 

Going to try that out because I don't know if I have it in me to paint another 3 goregruntas or 10 ardboys before the event in march, given that I still have a fair amount to finish as is. 

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