Malakithe

'Competitive' Ironjawz

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Yeh, as per the podcast and the last page of the this thread, this is what me and @Sangfroid have been discussing/practising with of late.

Cool beans.

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Gratz on breaking the 1,000 likes!

Thanks Chris. You're not doing too badly yourself!

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12 hours ago, Russrmc said:

Don't forget that you can take pure ironjawz and select destruction as your alliegance as per the faq. This means if you take an ironfist batallion, you can get 2d6 bonus movements, from the alliegance and from the batallion.  This really addresses the speed deficiency of the ironjawz.  Apologies if this was already pointed out, but my phone isn't loading the forums correctly! 

Yeh, this is pretty much the default for most Ironjawz players, with Ravager being the go-to Command Trait (Bellowing Tyrant not without use though mind!).

It is worth getting a read through this thread as and when you get the opportunity. Plenty of decent stuff in here for new and experienced players alike :D 

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On 1/4/2017 at 2:29 AM, Chris Tomlin said:

Yeh, this is pretty much the default for most Ironjawz players, with Ravager being the go-to Command Trait (Bellowing Tyrant not without use though mind!).

It is worth getting a read through this thread as and when you get the opportunity. Plenty of decent stuff in here for new and experienced players alike :D 

After the last FAQ regarding only generals getting the +2 modifier, I don't know if I want to continue using Ravager as the default choice. I've been going for Bellowing Tyrant more often lately. 

I tried @Sangfroid's list last night against Beastclaw Raiders, 10 brutes as the General with Bellowing Tyrant. I went first T1 and charged in with frenzied piggies against 10 savage orruks and held the flank while I could grab all three points for a custom matched play game (Like take and hold, but more fluff). He charged into the piggies and I lost almost all of them, one of the thundertusk shot at them, the other missed. He brought onto the field a Hunter and a few frost sabres to contest a point, and fight on the other two, but he only scored off of one. 

Turn two, he wins priority, rolls the two thundertusks, both 1's (OW!), continues fighting my ardboyz with savage orruks in the middle of the map. Smacks one of my groups of brutes with a Savage Big Boss, but they save 3 of 5 wounds. The piggies ran from battleshock last turn, he then charges his stonehorn into more ardboyz (only 1 wound on charge). My turn, the mystic shield missed on the brutes and prompted immediate sadness. I kill off the Savage Big Boss and savage orruks, he's out of buffer for the thundertusks. My 10 brutes get a lot of wounds off on the Stonehorn, but 5 die (thank the gods for inspiring presence).

I win priority, re-buff the brutes +2 to hit (miss another mystic shield), charged the thundertusks with the other brutes/boyz. The stonehorn (his general) and both thundertusks die to the swarm of orcs. 

MAJOR VICTORY, but he missed 3 of the 4 thundertusk shots and forgot to bring his Grot Shaman. 

The group of 6 gore gruntas was much more effective than 3, but I am unsure if they are a better choice vs. the Krusha or more brutes. I can see the additional artefact from brutefist being useful. 

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@Kaptan sounds a good hard fought proppa ironjawz victory (always will be against thundertusks and stone horns I feel)

I had narrowed my list choices down for the masters to that one (brute fist & Ironfist) and the third option me and @Chris Tomlindiscussed in his podcast namely a big unit of brutes in a traditional Ironfist or weirdfist I discussed with Chris and felt the first was where my head (Mork) would go as it feels more flexible whereas the second was where my heart would go (Gork) hits like a freight train. 

Any one who knows me knows I sway heavily towards the Gork side of things so in true ironjawz fashion I went with the freight train :-) 

i selected Bellowing Tyrant as the guaranteed inspiring presence and +1 to hit on the "Megabrutes" ( @Chris Tomlin naming factory TM*) is just so amazing also and this is the real kicker, the Bellowing Tyrant buff gives the unit +1 to hit in yours AND the opponents combat phases (potentially 3 phases if you get double turned upon) because it stays up until your next HERO phase, whereas the Warchanter buff is only in your next combat phase. This makes the Megabrutes just plain nasty 100% of the time except if your opponent goes first and then you should have them bubble wrapped in Ardboyz or piggies so should be safe anyway!

the brutefist still interests me a lot but only getting to use it twice I need some more practice with it I think

 

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I am going to be running this over the next month or so...
Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Battle Brew
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: Talisman of Protection
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Talisman of Protection
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Units
Orruk Ardboys x 10 (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
Orruk Ardboys x 10 (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
Orruk Gore Gruntas x 3 (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
Orruk Brutes x 15 (540)
- Ironjawz Battleline
Orruk Brutes x 5 (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
Orruk Brutes x 5 (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Battalions
Ironfist (60)
Brute Fist (80)

Total: 2000/2000

And after getting in as many games as I can, I will be trying this...

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Battle Brew
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: Talisman of Protection
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Units
Orruk Ardboys x 20 (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
Orruk Gore Gruntas x 3 (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
Orruk Brutes x 15 (540)
- Ironjawz Battleline
Orruk Brutes x 5 (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
Orruk Brutes x 5 (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Battalions
Ironfist (60)

Total: 2000/2000

I think both will have strengths over each other in different situations, but it is just a matter of which performs better in the current meta. 

Both lists above with Megabrute general and Bellowing tyrant. Agree with @Kaptan and @Sangfroid that bellowing tyrant is just a strong all round choice. 

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Probably missed it in here but Tomlin what's your podcast called?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, BelgianBeerBear said:

Probably missed it in here but Tomlin what's your podcast called?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

His weekly podcast is The Black Sun and he now features on the Lost Lighthouse podcast Age of Sigbrah 

 

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A quick one; what does people feel about an Ironfist Brute Boss as General (in 15/20 Brutes) with Bellowing Tyrant, and eg. losing a potential Waagh! for a tough Smashing and Bashing unit with Inspiring Presence as default?

It seems to be quite a popular choice as of lately

Edited by Aggesut

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There will be situations where Waaagh would be useful, but when buffing a deathstar unit with bravery 6, you need the inspiring presence. I live the brute boss general. 

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4 minutes ago, N_Watson said:

There will be situations where Waaagh would be useful, but when buffing a deathstar unit with bravery 6, you need the inspiring presence. I live the brute boss general. 

So very true, it seems to pop up in various tournaments and local plays I have a look at - latest in Kieran Harpers' AoS Masters list - I have yet to try it myself as I'm not big on deathstars in Pitched, but it sounds like an interesting choice and think I'll pop one in during the weekends' game

Edited by Aggesut

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Yeh the Megabrutes are definitely flavour of the month. I've played a few games with them now and whilst I like it, I'm still not 100% convinced it's the way forward. I actually think it's way harder to play well with than people might expect. Really easy to get multi-charged and strung out. I'm constantly striving for the "thing" with Ironjawz, I guess at some point I'll have to concede it's probably not there, but it's fun trying for now. I want to play another 7-10 games with the Megabrutes list before making any real judgement on it.

I initially started with Ravager (my default Megaboss choice), but would agree Bellowing Tyrant is better in this set up...even if you're running 3 Warchanters!

@BelgianBeerBear - Hey, yeh @N_Watson has it spot on, The Black Sun is my weekly podcast (recent change in format), if you go back to some of the episodes a few weeks ago there is some heavy Ironjawz chat that's worth a listen. Especially the "Year of Destruction" ep with Kieran Harper @Sangfroid. Age of Sigbrah is bi-weekly general AoS podcast and is a lot of fun! Check em both out :) 

Edited by Chris Tomlin
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Yes, I agree @Chris Tomlin. I am also not convinced that it is "the" way forward but I have noticed an improvement in my games using the big unit of brutes. I have actually had more success only playing with the 15 man megabrutes and no MSU units of brutes. As powerful as they are, they really suffer to the battleshock. I'm thinking more ardboys and maybe 2 megabosses with battlebrew. I haven't tried the 6 Goregruntas yet, but I still find me 3 useful in my games. If I focus on the objective alone and not on how they kill stuff, they have been a useful tool for me so far. 

It does take a lot of effort to get what you want out of the 15 man brutes, but it is fun trying and I think it is making me play better overall. I am with you that it probably isn't there, and I don't think we will see any podium Ironjawz finishes without a big swing in the meta. It is damn fun playing this army though!

 

 

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Definitely, 15man brutes is the way to go. Adding bellowing tyrant and half of them, even if I you lose one attack, with gore-hackas so all can attack on first assault gives you a true meat grinder unit. It's important to always use inspiring presence, that bravery 6 is really annoying. Keep a megaboss near, and enjoy.

I've tried different lists and this unit works perfectly, but is always the main objective of the opponent. It's not a bad idea to build a list around them, I may use it as my default core from now on.

The thing is, can I combine hackas with choppas or do I have to choose?

Edited by Leonhart040

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On 03/01/2017 at 9:33 PM, Russrmc said:

Don't forget that you can take pure ironjawz and select destruction as your alliegance as per the faq. This means if you take an ironfist batallion, you can get 2d6 bonus movements, from the alliegance and from the batallion.  This really addresses the speed deficiency of the ironjawz.  Apologies if this was already pointed out, but my phone isn't loading the forums correctly! 

I'm no doubt being an idiot, but where is this in the FAQ?

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1 hour ago, Grailstorm said:

I'm no doubt being an idiot, but where is this in the FAQ?

Probably best you read through this thread. This discussion is so 2016... 

 

Ach what the heck, I will help. Choosing a list and choosing allegiance are two separate things. For instance, you pick your army as full ironjawz to take advantage of the battle line. Then you pick your allegiance from the keywords. Everything in ironjawz has the destruction keyword, so you pick that. Does this help? 

Screenshot_20170114-201608.jpg

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On 11 January 2017 at 2:37 PM, Aggesut said:

So very true, it seems to pop up in various tournaments and local plays I have a look at - latest in Kieran Harpers' AoS Masters list - I have yet to try it myself as I'm not big on deathstars in Pitched, but it sounds like an interesting choice and think I'll pop one in during the weekends' game

So I played this yesterday, unfortunately against a completely new test list, but Brute Boss is a very strong choice. The unit of 15 and a Megaboss grinded through anything and everything on the right flank, the Maw-Krusha accompanied by a Warchanter (for all of 2 rounds until he got left behind) destroyed everything on the left flank, all the while 3x10 ardboys just fiddled around and took objectives with a Weirdnob.

I hope to get to try it against a proper list, and I might swap the unit of 15 for a 10+5 for manoeuvrebility and maximising attacks, but generally there are no complaints as of now

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Yesterday I played two 2K games and also had a 1K order game. Game one was using @Sangfroid's brutefist/ironfist list. Game two I used a list closer to @Chris Tomlin's. 

Game one versus Death, an Arkhan and Morghast mix in Blood and Glory. I deployed the megabrutes (10) on the side where he left most of his units, and left the gruntas on the flanking side. I elect for him to go first, he crosses the field with the morghasts by doubling the movement. Hits the charge with the morghasts, flops with Arkhan. The morghasts instantly wipe the unit of 5 brutes. I proceed to take my turn and cross the map with the gruntas, buff the megabrutes and charge Arkhan. The megaboss and megabrutes manage to take down Arkhan, while the morghasts take out a unit of ardboyz.

 

Turn 2: He wins the die roll, takes out my weirdnob shaman who was not standing near any objectives. Whacks at me with a vampire coven, a vampire lord, and a few other small evil guys. I decided to go for the two points he controlled and try for the win if I got initiative. I wipe out a group of zombies with ardboyz, take one point (I'm at 3 now). The gore gruntas move over to his point and I have more models within 6".

Turn 3: Initiative roll, I roll 3, he rolls 1. Game. 

 

Game two versus Sylvaneth (Great player who wanted some practice before the US Las Vegas Open): Border War, his list was Gnarlroot with Ancient, Celestial Arcanum, Hunters 

I had never played Sylvaneth at 2k, and he hadn't played Ironjawz.

I decided to use Nothing Left Standing and a 3rd warchanter for the match, dropping Brutefist. He sets up very heavily on one side of the map, and leaves Drycha to self destruct on the other. He warns me about his plan with Drycha, but I proceed to fall into the trap by over-committing to the objective. He elects for me to go first.

Turn One: I mystic shield and begin burning down wyldwoods, taking 3 out of 4 objectives (5 points). He activates the tactical nuke that is Drycha, and blows 4 mortal wounds into himself, 3 onto my megaboss, and 1 on everything else. He shoots down a few brutes with the arcanum and hunters (1 point for him).

Turn Two: I have initiative, burn down a woods, charge my megabrutes into his Kurnoth Hunters (melee), kill one but it's regrown later. I made a mistake of not being proactive with my gruntas, and positioned them terribly. More brutes die (T_T), but I beat down Drycha with the megaboss, netting him an extra attack (10 points for me). He takes his turn, blows up more brutes with the arcanum and hunters, whacks the gruntas with treelord (2 points).

Turn Three: He wins initiative, clears off the remaining brutes and takes the side objective, whilst killing off my weirdnob with dryads (5 points for him). He continues to beat on my gore gruntas (2 remain). I setup defensively on my points since I am far behind in army value, but ahead in score (13 points for me).

Turn Four: He makes me go first, I setup my ardboyz, brutes, and everything in a spread line (16 points). He goes, takes my objective (I made the mistake of miscalculating how far he could get the dryads), and kills a few more of my brutes. (12 points for him). I knew I would be unable to recover my point or capture any other points, I would go to 18 points, he goes to 19 on turn 5. I GG'd.

After Battle: I felt really good about the Sylvaneth game. If I had kept a few more models inches closer to my objective, I would have won. The closest 2k game I've played so far. I was trying to play less aggressive and just hold the points in the game, but he (Sylvaneth player) and I agreed I needed to be more aggressive with my other brutes and gruntas as they just sat on an objective where ardboyz already were. He agreed Nothing Left Standing was a major PITA for him. I am unsure if I will continue using brutefist, and am currently thinking of a mixed destruction brew. 

 

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So I have a question after the pile in video that was released, what is the point of having a unit of 10 brutes with 2hd? 

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6 hours ago, SlowPlay85 said:

So I have a question after the pile in video that was released, what is the point of having a unit of 10 brutes with 2hd? 

When piling in, each model piles in towards the closest model. As long as the model can get closer and gets closer when it piles in, it can pile in (as long as bases are not clicked, because the models can't get any closer). If the brutes are getting stuck behind eachother, attacks are lost, and piling in all of the brutes with 1H may still leave models not attacking. The area required for more models to attack can restrict other heroes or units from fighting, especially if the unit has a 1" reach.

 

Another member of the forum posted a picture of brutes fighting with 1" weapons, and another fighting with 2" reach weapons and a megaboss. The 2" reach brutes with megaboss took up about the same amount of space as the spread out 1" weapons. Both weapons are good though.

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''Twas me here is the pic @Kaptan 😎

What's interesting is the 15 man megabrutes unit takes up practically the same space as the 10 and the Megaboss does making 15+ units a must for 2" weapons 

IMG_0600.JPG

Edited by Sangfroid
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On ‎13‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 10:05 AM, Leonhart040 said:

The thing is, can I combine hackas with choppas or do I have to choose?

It's one or the other unfortunately.

Hopefully I will find some proper time for this forum again soon. Thanks to a last minute drop out (I was ranked 17th), I got to play 6 great, highly competitive games at the UK Masters (plus a 7th practice game on the Friday) this past weekend. Whilst I wasn't using my preferred list (due to models painted), it was still a very useful experience. Really happy with how I'm playing the Ironjawz at the moment.

In the meantime, there will be some podcast coverage of this. The Age of Sigbrah episode due for release on 27/01/17 will feature my Masters coverage and The Black Sun Weekly due for release on 23/01/17 will feature @Sangfroid's. I genuinely hope that both of these will prove really useful for all Ironjawz players, new or experienced.

I honestly don't think 12 tougher/more competitive games will have been played by Ironjawz players in such a small space of time (if ever). Me and Kieran really got to push our armies to breaking (often broken!) point against some of the hardest armies and best players around. Fantastic experience.

I do think that we are finally approaching the pinnacle of "competitive Ironjawz", though there is perhaps an element of trying to find something that actually just isn't there. We shall see.

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2 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said:

I do think that we are finally approaching the pinnacle of "competitive Ironjawz", though there is perhaps an element of trying to find something that actually just isn't there. We shall see.

They could definitely use some new toys to increase options. The first release was a great foundation though.

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40 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

They could definitely use some new toys to increase options. The first release was a great foundation though.

Yeh...I look at subsequent and forthcoming releases with a feeling of "man...I wish we had a more rounded army like this".

But, you're right, it's certainly not doom and gloom at all. We did indeed get a great foundation and just a couple more releases would go a long long way.

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[First Post Ever...bare with me...]

Is this forum for pure ironjaws lists only?  Or can we get feedback on lists that mix in ironjaws with other Destruction warscrolls?

Thanks!

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17 minutes ago, Geoff Ozzy said:

[First Post Ever...bare with me...]

Is this forum for pure ironjaws lists only?  Or can we get feedback on lists that mix in ironjaws with other Destruction warscrolls?

Thanks!

Hello and welcome @Geoff Ozzy!

Whilst this particular topic is dedicated to the discussion around pure Ironjawz, the subforum you find this topic in (marked; Destruction) is totally open to the Destruction Grand Alliance as a whole. So whether you wanna talk Orruks, Grots, Ogors, Troggoths, Gargants or anything else, it's all good!

Get a thread going and I'm sure there will be plenty of helpful people ready to chime in :) 

 

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