Nico Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Quote I ran into the same thing you did playing Archaon. Initially I (wrongly) assumed I allocated the weapons as I went - after I'd concluded attacking with the last weapon. Getting those head attacks to "last-hit" is pretty awful. My solution to the rules problem (as opposed to the problem of Archaon being clunky as hell) was to allocate all attacks and then execute them one by one. If the heads' attacks got a killing blow when it was their turn to be rolled their rule triggers. I really wish I had something more concrete to base that on than it feeling more or less like it makes sense because it doesn't seem that clear (to me anyhow) from the rules as laid out. You could do it that way - but it seems rather long-winded. To be fair this is more or less equivalent to my method - since assuming (a) that the model dies; and (b) that you do at least one wound with the heads, then the main way in which you wouldn't be able to order the attacks to make the killing blow the heads would be if you accidentally killed it with the claws as the damage output is random. This whole process is so artificial that I'm going to stick with the "did the weapon contribute to the kill?; and you cannot get the bonus for two weapons" approach for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 55 minutes ago, Zedek said: hey folks another mega boss here. all the way from NZ. Really enjoyed reading this thread tonight while trying to come up with a list for an upcoming tournament next month. in regards to the strength from victory the maw crushas do get better as they heal as per the main rules faq Q: If a monster heals wounds, does it still count as having taken those wounds for the purpose of making its attacks and abilities weaker? A: No. You use the line that corresponds to the monster’s current number of wounds, so a monster will get better if it can heal wounds. Welcome @Zedek! Glad to see the Ironjawz being well represented in NZ! Just a note here that the above does not apply as you are not healing wounds on the model, you are gaining wounds on your profile I'll try and get through some of the other stuff here in a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arael Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Hi all ! hope it's the right place to post a mixed and not pure ironjawz list ^^' lets begin with the list ,then the idea behind it: Leaders Orruk Warboss (140) - General - Trait: Bellowing Tyrant - Artefact: Talisman of Protection Savage Big Boss (100) - Artefact: Talisman of Protection Maniak Weirdnob (100) - Artefact: Talisman of Protection Orruk Warchanter (80) Moonclan Grot Shaman (60)Units Savage Orruks x 30 (300) Savage Orruks x 10 (100) Savage Orruks x 10 (100) Orruk Brutes x 5 (180) Orruk Brutes x 5 (180) Orruk Brutes x 5 (180) Orruk Gore Gruntas x 3 (180) Orruk Gore Gruntas x 3 (180)BehemothsWar MachinesBatallions Kunnin' Rukk (60) Ironfist (60)Total: 2000/2000 So 76 model and 200+ wound ,lots of model 5 heroes and high body count , 2 caster and nearly everything is in a formation so u could deploy with few moves and try to go second....All bases seems covered ^^' the idea is that hyper buffed unit of 30 savage charge in 1st-2nd turn with 2 attack each,3+ to hit and reroll 1 (or all), 4+ to wound and reroll 1 ( or all) and maybe 2 melee phases ( +1 hit & attack from General , double melee from kunnin, reroll hit from maniac, reroll wound from number) , this should already put pressure on your adversaries and his just a little portion of your list ,meanwhile the 2 unit of 10 savage can take objective and the iron fist could arrive to hit hard what savage as already put under pressure or another part of the battlefield buffed by the warchanter, key heroes are all protected by talisman and btw the general can buff both iron and bone. still haven't had any chance to try it, I struggle a bit to find time to play , what u think of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalesOfSigmar Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 So whats the general consensus of using the Megaboss? Do you give inspiring presence on the big block of 10 Brutes or do you do that until you're in combat then call a Waaaggghhhh? With the Bravery 6 of Brutes they're quite suspect of running from battleshock and with 3-wound models they're tough models to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, TalesOfSigmar said: So whats the general consensus of using the Megaboss? Do you give inspiring presence on the big block of 10 Brutes or do you do that until you're in combat then call a Waaaggghhhh? With the Bravery 6 of Brutes they're quite suspect of running from battleshock and with 3-wound models they're tough models to lose. It really depends for me. If I feel that my 10 brutes can get smashed back after I activate them ( I normally activate them first) I give them inspiring presence. You also never know if you will get priority so there is that to think of. If I see myself getting a while bunch of units into combat within 10 inches of the megaboss, sometimes it is worth losing a few brutes to battle shock to give every weapon 1 extra attack. You should experiment with it. It is too easy to right off and just keep doing inspiring presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 My Dear Watson said it. It all depends on the feel of the situation. If I need those Brutes to stay put/nail something down, they get Inspired. If I'm multicharged and need to hand out the beatdown, it's time to Waaagh (granted I have enough units and a good chance to roll it). It also depends on what you are fighting/how close the Megaboss is. If it's a 4+ wound thing, (rerolls to hit) I'll let the Brutes just go on their own. If it's mobs of single wound models they are up against, I'm going to want more attacks and make sure the boss is close so I can reroll 1's. Warchanter really helps too (hit on 2's reroll 1's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSDdeloach Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Thoughts ladz! Thinking of this being fairly balanced.. LeadersOrruk Megaboss (140)- General- Artefact: Battle BrewOrruk Warchanter (80)Orruk Warchanter (80)Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)- Artefact: Talisman of ProtectionUnitsOrruk Ardboys x 20 (360)Orruk Ardboys x 10 (180)Orruk Brutes x 10 (360)Orruk Gore Gruntas x 9 (540)BehemothsWar MachinesBatallionsIronfist (60)Total: 1920/2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 If you get rid of the Weirdnob, you can take anything else i like the idea of 9 Goregruntaz in theory, let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSDdeloach Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 What's wrong with the weird?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 It's not competitive. Too much random for little gain in an easy to snipe character. Not worth the points. It's great for fun games though, and a really nice model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Biscuit Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 21 hours ago, Arael said: Hi all ! hope it's the right place to post a mixed and not pure ironjawz list ^^' lets begin with the list ,then the idea behind it: Leaders Orruk Warboss (140) - General - Trait: Bellowing Tyrant - Artefact: Talisman of Protection Savage Big Boss (100) - Artefact: Talisman of Protection Maniak Weirdnob (100) - Artefact: Talisman of Protection Orruk Warchanter (80) Moonclan Grot Shaman (60)Units Savage Orruks x 30 (300) Savage Orruks x 10 (100) Savage Orruks x 10 (100) Orruk Brutes x 5 (180) Orruk Brutes x 5 (180) Orruk Brutes x 5 (180) Orruk Gore Gruntas x 3 (180) Orruk Gore Gruntas x 3 (180)BehemothsWar MachinesBatallions Kunnin' Rukk (60) Ironfist (60)Total: 2000/2000 So 76 model and 200+ wound ,lots of model 5 heroes and high body count , 2 caster and nearly everything is in a formation so u could deploy with few moves and try to go second....All bases seems covered ^^' the idea is that hyper buffed unit of 30 savage charge in 1st-2nd turn with 2 attack each,3+ to hit and reroll 1 (or all), 4+ to wound and reroll 1 ( or all) and maybe 2 melee phases ( +1 hit & attack from General , double melee from kunnin, reroll hit from maniac, reroll wound from number) , this should already put pressure on your adversaries and his just a little portion of your list ,meanwhile the 2 unit of 10 savage can take objective and the iron fist could arrive to hit hard what savage as already put under pressure or another part of the battlefield buffed by the warchanter, key heroes are all protected by talisman and btw the general can buff both iron and bone. still haven't had any chance to try it, I struggle a bit to find time to play , what u think of it? This looks a fairly interesting list. Now, I'm not familar with what other destruction units are like, but being able to throw a 60 wound unit, even if it's armour save is pretty poor would probably give the list serious backbone. It kind of shifts the ironjaws in a different direction by making lists struggle to stop the sheer number of wounds. The only thing I might recommend is running a 10 man brute pack instead of 2 5's to make buffing them easier, but otherwise this looks quite a strong mixed contender. 9 hours ago, WSDdeloach said: Thoughts ladz! Thinking of this being fairly balanced.. LeadersOrruk Megaboss (140)- General- Artefact: Battle BrewOrruk Warchanter (80)Orruk Warchanter (80)Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)- Artefact: Talisman of ProtectionUnitsOrruk Ardboys x 20 (360)Orruk Ardboys x 10 (180)Orruk Brutes x 10 (360)Orruk Gore Gruntas x 9 (540)BehemothsWar MachinesBatallionsIronfist (60)Total: 1920/2000 I am curious how a pack of 9 gore grunters could preform. I just imagine the sheer terror of being hit by a 9 pig unit. Not sure whether it's efficent, but it's super easy to buff a charge on them so it will be interesting to try at least once. 6 might have similar effect and release a 5 man unit of brutes to be assigned to hunting particlar monsters. Sharmans are a bit weird in regards to being somewhat inefficient and if you got the points free, I don't see why you wouldn't include a 3rd warchanter, their buffs stack for some incredible accuarcy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arael Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 4 hours ago, Lord Biscuit said: This looks a fairly interesting list. Now, I'm not familar with what other destruction units are like, but being able to throw a 60 wound unit, even if it's armour save is pretty poor would probably give the list serious backbone. It kind of shifts the ironjaws in a different direction by making lists struggle to stop the sheer number of wounds. The only thing I might recommend is running a 10 man brute pack instead of 2 5's to make buffing them easier, but otherwise this looks quite a strong mixed contender. And their armor save is not even so poor... ^^ they have 5+ in melee ,4+ with one mistyc shield form one of the two caster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Biscuit Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 2 hours ago, Arael said: And their armor save is not even so poor... ^^ they have 5+ in melee ,4+ with one mistyc shield form one of the two caster Mah boi's 'ere hav' 4+ saves al da time! Dhey be 'arder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSDdeloach Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Is it not worth it to run the pitbull/cabbage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arael Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 37 minutes ago, WSDdeloach said: Is it not worth it to run the pitbull/cabbage? I think its really strong, but at 2k point for me it uses too much point, u have too few body remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolsama Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Stow the Megaboss for Grimgor Ironhide. +1 Hit trumps all. Gore Gruntas are *not* shock troops. Do not expect them to be a hammer. They are a flanking unit, meant to run over back-line shooters and artillery. Unfortunately, they're so big they get tarpitted *way* too easy. I'd rather have another block of Boyz or Brutes. Weirdnob is good for Mystic Shield only, which means you take one of them for Mystic Shield and Unbind, and hope your strategy can overcome the missing 60 points (because a Moonclan Shaman is a better bet - yay for batteline taxes). Leave cabbage in your salad. He cannot possibly win back as many points as he costs you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I agree for the most part except one point: You shouldn't expect the points cost of something to win back it's points cost. What matters more is synergy and how it fits in your strategy. Also, Gore-gruntaz are great anvils Grimgor is an interesting option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSDdeloach Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 what about foot of gork & green puke? no one has talked about that at all it seems. they seem fairly strong spells, a touch random but still.... decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 They are way too random to rely on, especially at 120 points. Puke, first you have to cast it at 8 which is an above average roll. Then you have another random element, it's 2d6 range. So even if cast, it may not reach anything. Then, another random d3 Mortal wounds per unit the line crosses over which is meh. Foot is cast on 10, and does d6 which is respectable. Then you can do more damage on a 4+, and keep doing it as long as you can keep rolling 4's. For 120 points, and having to roll a 10 just to get d6 Mortal wounds and potentially rolling a 1? Let's look at what can be done to mediate this. If there are 10 ORRUK models within 10", you can add 1 to the casting. IF there are 20 ORRUK models within 10", add 2 to casting. Well it does considerably help things like Mystic Shield or Arcane Bolt, but not much for the Green Puke or Foot of Gork. You are then paying a lot of points to have lots of models in one static area to hopefully bolster a string of random rolls on something that might do big, fun damage but will more than likely end up being meh. Oh, and you damage your own units with mortal wounds if you roll doubles when you cast or unbind. So now you have 21 models, all clumped up in one area of the board doing nothing and hoping a caster can do something... You can bolster it further by taking the Weirdfist for 100 points. It's all the same as above, but you add 6" to the spells range on a 1-3 or a mortal wound on a 4-6 for each unit from the Battalion within 10". Once again, you are clumping most of your army in one space for a lot of points and relying on random rolls. It's absolutely awesome for regular play, the element of random is fun for sure! This is Competitive Ironjawz, and the Weirdnob only brings random...something you want to minimize when playing competitively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Biscuit Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I am curious about Grimjaw. Pros: +1 attack in a radius is much more effective then warchanter buff Has 4 accurate rend 2 attacks: which is quite rare in the army. Self buffs for +2 to hit Smaller model, thus could squeeze into gaps. Means list can invest in less warchanty stuff; those guys aren't that good at killing. Con's Isn't a ton of synergistic heroes to play with him. Warchanters only really have use in super buffing 'ardboys and Megabosses units are fairly pricely for just another combat unit (if quite elite). Black Orc Bosses don't really gain anything from his command ability. Cannot take artefacts One of his abillites doesn't work. (Black Orc's don't exist) Smaller base: command radius is smaller on all ablties. Has less attacks then a mega boss and can't self buff, so actually is down about 5-7 attacks compared to megaboss and doesn't get a buff to wound. Less killy. All in all he's a interesting choice, I could see him being a interesting pick but realistically is his command effect better then extra attacks? And it's also dependant how many units he can realistically buff, if only 3 units are in combat then it's alright, but is it better then a extra swing + selective +1 buffing? Not entirely certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSDdeloach Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 @Dez Your'e not wrong. He is totally random.. he really is the only option (other than, unbound destruction list) to combat enemy spell casters. So there is that as well, which.. could cause issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSDdeloach Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 11 minutes ago, Lord Biscuit said:Con's Smaller base: command radius is smaller on all ablties. But you would re base him at 40mm any ways. Because he is a hero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 26 minutes ago, WSDdeloach said: @Dez Your'e not wrong. He is totally random.. he really is the only option (other than, unbound destruction list) to combat enemy spell casters. So there is that as well, which.. could cause issues. Classic Greenskin taktik: can't kill it, ignore it. Then it ain't there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Biscuit Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 1 hour ago, WSDdeloach said: But you would re base him at 40mm any ways. Because he is a hero is 40mm the standard base size for all heroes? I assumed he would be as large as the unit he was based on, but always strange to find them so tiny compared to brutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolsama Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 3 hours ago, Lord Biscuit said: I am curious about Grimjaw. Pros: +1 attack in a radius is much more effective then warchanter buff Has 4 accurate rend 2 attacks: which is quite rare in the army. Self buffs for +2 to hit Smaller model, thus could squeeze into gaps. Means list can invest in less warchanty stuff; those guys aren't that good at killing. Con's Isn't a ton of synergistic heroes to play with him. Warchanters only really have use in super buffing 'ardboys and Megabosses units are fairly pricely for just another combat unit (if quite elite). Black Orc Bosses don't really gain anything from his command ability. Cannot take artefacts One of his abillites doesn't work. (Black Orc's don't exist) Smaller base: command radius is smaller on all ablties. Has less attacks then a mega boss and can't self buff, so actually is down about 5-7 attacks compared to megaboss and doesn't get a buff to wound. Less killy. All in all he's a interesting choice, I could see him being a interesting pick but realistically is his command effect better then extra attacks? And it's also dependant how many units he can realistically buff, if only 3 units are in combat then it's alright, but is it better then a extra swing + selective +1 buffing? Not entirely certain. Black Orcs are Ardboyz. Confirmed. So a unit of Ardboyz can be his Immortalz. I proxy the Megaboss as Grimgor, because it's a much cooler model. The Megaboss' 'big fist' to me is not extra attacks. 5s to hit means it's a cool bonus if and when it goes off (which is never). So Grimgor's 5 attacks on 3/3 (with one doing D3 damage) is about equal. Keep in mind - you have to *roll* to get the Megaboss' command ability! No one else has to do that. Anywhere. That's garbage. I've used both a few times, and Grimgor outperforms every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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