Ironjawz weapon options

[giaric]

I wanted to discuss the weapon options for ironjawz. 

After buying my first start collecting i read the warscrolls to decide how equip my boyz, but the decision is not simple.

For the start collecting i decided to assemble the orruks like this:

pigs with shorter but more effective weapons, warchanter will be converted with a drum and the ardboyz will have them mixed (3 shields + command group + double weapons).

Then i went to the brutes warscroll and wow, there are some many  weapon options and i dont understand them at all.

The boss of the unit has no bonuses whatsoever apart from his weapon that i dont like, isnt it better just to use the boss choppa?

The special weapon is even stranger, is it worth it to lose a +1 to hit (bringing the roll to 4+) and 1 attack only to gain that d3 dmg? considering that you may roll a 1 i dont think it's worth it

 

 

I'd like to hear your opinion about it, especially on the start collecting. After all I have yet to play my first game with the ironjawz

 

 

[Malakree]

So there's a few different things going on in ironjawz. 

 Goregruntas.

These should always have the 1" range weapon, due to the Base size of them the extra " range doesn't help that much. Add in that you will overwhelmingly field them as 3s or 6s and it's just a clearly better choice.

Brutes.

Special weapons

There are a couple of things going on here which all have an impact.

You should always take the maximum amount of Gore Choppas that you can. It's an amazing weapon that really puts out the hurt. 3 attacks at d3 is a huge damage potential, add in the Warchanter buff they should have on them and the rerolling misses against 4+ wounds and the -1 to hit is irrelevant. It also comes with a 2" range, I'll discuss why this is fantastic below.

For the boss the two weapon options are close but I'm going to make a case for always taking the claw and smasha. Again it's important to note the WC buff and reroll vs big stuff when considering the two options.

So firstly is the fact ONE claw hit causes your smasha attacks to automatically hit. This means you essentially roll to hit twice with the smasha attacks, rerolling both times. To put that in context your smasha is functionally running at 4+ rerolling THREE TIMES against big stuff, put in those terms it's crazy and it's FAR better than a +1 to hit. Second thing to take note of is that both smasha attacks have -2 rend or dragon claws amounts of rend. This is really important in a huge majority of situations. The d3 damage vs 2 damage, this is approximately equivalent in terms of potential.

From this you should be able to see the klaw edging out the boss Choppa. There is one more thing which we need to consider however which makes the klaw the only choice.

The power of a waaagh!

If a megaboss, of either type, uses it then it allows your models to make an extra attack (or 2) with their weapons. That means a boss with a claw and smasha gets an extra attack with BOTH weapons, 2 klaw attacks and 3 smasha attacks. Remember when I said you needed a single klaw hit? A waaagh makes the smasha almost guarenteed to hit.

Hence klaw over Choppa. 

general unit weapons.

MAGNETISE YOUR STANDARD BRUTES SO YOU CAN SWAP BETWEEN THE OPTIONS. I can't stress this enough.

So here we have only 2 options. A 1" 4 attacks vs a 2" 3 attacks. This really boils down to personal skills and unit size.

At 5 models, take the 4 attacks.

At 15 models, take the 2" range.

At 10 models it's personal preference.

A brute with a 2" attack range can attack from the second rank past another brute. This means, as @Sangfroid puts it, that its easier to get proper "application of force" with the 2" weapon. Your unit as a whole has a shorter frontage which both makes it easier for you to get all your brutes attacking and harder for enemy massive units to get the frontage they need to make all their attacks.

2h brutes are easier for you, as attacking player, to use and more resilient against opponent positioning or terrain fuckery. 

2 weapon brutes are stronger IF you can bring them all to bear on a target, they also hold their strength better as they take casualties. 

Notably your Gore Choppas have a 2" range whichever option you take. This means you get some advantage of the spear option even if you go dual wield.

Ardboyz is a post unto itself which I'll do later if you want. I'm on my phone atm and it makes typing a pain.

[giaric]

what a nice reply! you clarified it a lot for me,  thanks. what can i say, i was right about the pigs and cant really  add that much to the brute analysis.

only thing that sounds strange to me is the abscence of +1 to hit or similar on the brute boss.

I'd like to read that ardboyz post if you feel like writing it

[Malakree]

4 minutes ago, giaric said:

only thing that sounds strange to me is the abscence of +1 to hit or similar on the brute boss.

Eh the weapon options are way better. If you take the boss Choppa as the "baseline" weapon it's essentially +1 damage over the normal brute weapon.

I think the reason is that ironjawz are one of the earliest armies in sigmar so in a lot of ways they don't quite play by the rules.

In this case they clearly designed the brute models before they did the warscroll. I'll see about writing the ardboyz weapon summary after some food.

Maybe we need a stickied post with some of the complete answers to the ironjawz questions which come up a lot. @Sangfroid  @Chris Tomlin  !!!

[PlasticCraic]

3 hours ago, Malakree said:

In this case they clearly designed the brute models before they did the warscroll. I'll see about writing the ardboyz weapon summary after some food.

That's a really good point...it had struck me as odd (and kinda time-consuming) that a basic 5-man squad could attack with 4 different weapon profiles.  That explanation would totally make sense.

[Malakree]

Ardboyz

So the reason that this unit is so much more complicated than the others is because of a uniqueness they have over basically every other unit in the game. For most units you have a unit wide weapons choice and then a limited number of special weapons choices, see the Brutes above. However for Ardboyz you have 3 generic weapon setups which you chose on a Model basis not a Unit basis. Essentially you can mix and match your units weapons to the exact number that you want. So first thing to do is consider each weapon choice individually then consider them as a whole unit. 

•  Two Orruk Forged Choppa or Smashas - So I'm doing this one first because it works as a baseline. 3 attacks at 4+/3+/-/1 is Alot of attacks with actually decent stats. The idea here is to just throw out so many attacks that some will go through, 5 models in contact with a unit will put out 15 attacks, from 5 models. Why blocks of 5, well there's a few reasons I'll cover below in the unit section. Overall this weapon setup excells at killing chaff with mediocre/no armour save. 
• Orruk Forged Big Choppa - This weapon trades off the extra attack for an extra -1 rend. The break point for 5 models is a base armour save of 3+, what do I mean by this? At a 3+ armour save the -1 rend averages ever so slightly better than the extra attack. At a 2+ the rend is significantly better and at 4+ it's worse. The place the rend really shines is save rerolls (dirty fyreslayers!). Approximately for every level of reroll (1s/1 or 2s/ all failed) the break point goes up a base save. So if your opponent is rerolling all failed saves then the -1 rend is only slightly worse when your opponent has a base save of 6+. This is really important in the current meta.
• Orruk Forged Shields - You may be wondering why I'm not including the attack stats here, it's because this option is strictly worse than both others for damage output. You take this for 6++ save. This works out that for every 6 wounds you take on a model with a shield, or 3 models total, you will save one.  So on a basic level your unit gains a wound for every 3 models with a shield. The important thing here is the way it scales with itself, for example if you have 6 models with shields they have 14 wounds instead of 12. However at 18 models you have 36 wounds, so you get 6 extra "free" but then for every 6 you get another wounds which means that at 18 models with shields you now have 7 free wounds not 6. When you then roll in a 4+ base armour save, or 3+ with mystic shield and a unit of 30 Ardboys with shields becomes a HUGE tarpit. 
• Note - An important thing to note on the 6++ is that due to the wording of it at the moment there is a very good chance that you get the save against mortal wounds as well. We are currently waiting for an FAQ on this but I have yet to play a game or tournament where I was NOT allowed to save against mortal wounds.

So all this is great. Take the unit with Big Choppas if you want to kill stuff with saves, the shields if you want to tarpit or the Twin Choppas to deal with swarms. We finished? HELL NO WE'RE NOT FINISHED!

Mixed Weapon Units!

As I said above you get to pick the weapons per model not per unit. What does this mean? It means that your unit of 30 ardboys can have 10 Twin choppas, 10 Big Choppas and 10 Orruk Forged Shields. Then, depending on who you're facing, you can rearrange the deployment of your unit to change what weapons you're using. The easiest way to explain this is using the weapon setup I took on my Ardboys to the recent Blood and Glory tournament (where I was smashed into tiny bits!),

30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
- 17x Pair of Choppas or Smashas
- 13x Choppa or Smasha & Shields

Now if you've ever seen a unit of 30 Ardboys you'll know they take up a ton of space. The way that I used them was to have 10 models on the "Front" row which all had Pairs of Choppas, the outside edges of the second and third row also had Pairs of Choppas, then the big block in the middle of the unit was where I kept my Orruk Forged Shields. This meant that, when the unit engaged an enemy unit, every model in base contact with the enemy, all the ones who can attack, are all wielding Pairs of Choppas giving me all the advantages that come with having them. For my attacks it was if the entire unit had Pairs of Choppas. However when I assigned wounds I assigned them to the ones with Orruk Forged shields, meaning that I still got my 6++ save against them. So until the unit had 13 models killed it was fighting as if it had both sets of weapons. When you then add in the 3+ save they had with mystic shield and I cannot properly express how hard they tarpitted.

The best way for me to say it is this, they survived 2 complete ROUNDS of 2 magmadroths combined with a charge from 30 Vulkite berserkers with slingshields and then 2 full rounds of combat against that unit aswell. Add in 3 full volleys of throwing axes, the magmadroths ranged attacks and his entire round with an extra 2 rend (stupid 6+ rune) and you can suddenly see just how tanky they were.

At smaller units of 10 this bonus is kind of irrelevant, generally you can get the whole unit to attack and the small amount of extra wounds you generate from the 6++ saves isn't that influential. At 20 it starts making a difference and at 30 it's enormous. This then leads onto talking about the various setups for the units depending on what you want them to do.

Units of 10

Generally you take these two defensively sit on objectives and tarpit your opponent if he flanks. As a general rule you want them to be mostly Orruk Forged Shields In My Opinion I stress this because it is only an opinion. This will reduce their ability to kill whatever comes after them but their main role is to stall rather than to maul (HO HO HO!). As a result I'd personally suggest something like this. 

10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- 7x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 3x Big Choppas

This is abusing the concept I talked about earlier on a much smaller scale. As anything tunnelling or wrapping you is normally going to be more elite I'd prefer the Big Choppas over the Pairs but there is a whole extra set of considerations for that which I'll deal with at the bottom.

Units of 20

• This is where you're going to really start to feel the power of mixed weapon units.
• If you want them to be aggressive take 10 Pairs and 10 Big Choppas, then just deploy the unit so that whichever weapon you're not using is at the back and remove them first.
• If you want them to be more of a tarpit then you can take 10-15 shields instead with the boss and a few extra boys running your preferred weapon option.
• The last option is to take a mix of all 3. I'm against this, again see below. Personally I think you will benefit more from having more shields than the weapon diversity. The difference between the Pairs and Big Choppas isn't large enough to really warrant losing the saves. This is again because of the way the shields work exponentially with each other.

Units of 30

So with the massive unit buff for matched play I'm going to go out there and say if you're running 20 you should be running 30. The extra 90 points for 10 more Ardboys is amazingly good value. Again you're going to have much the same debate you would at 20 models, however there's another aspect you need to consider.

Frontage
How much spaces on the battlefield do you want your Ardboys to take up.

• For example you could deploy them with a front row of 16, at an inch apart. Add on the 1.25" inches per model and your unit is now 3 foot wide. You can legitimately deploy them in such a way as to block off your side of the board. If you're doing this you may want every model with shields.
• On the other hand you can pack them tightly together with a frontage of 7/8, this won't take up the width of the board but it does stop your opponent from bringing any major force to bare on the unit. In this case you can bring less shields, they just won't take the amount of attacks, and pack in more offensive weapons into the small frontage. This brings a lot of tanky force into one small area.

Meta Gaming

All the Dice
So this is something which comes from my tournament experience. Overwhelmingly I found that I didn't make it to round 4 in any of my games purely because we ran out of time. This then leads to the consideration of how fast you can roll your units dice. Taking the Big Choppas means you and your opponent will just be rolling less dice, this speeds the process up and lets you get through your attacks faster. It means you have less dice to look through, you have to find less dice. You're rolling 30 dice per 15 models in combat rather than per 10. This is actually a really important thing to consider.

Re-roll Armour saves
At the moment fyreslayers are in style in a big way. A huge part of that is the massive amount of saves they roll. a 4+ rerollable followed by 6++ makes them super hard to strip off the board. Against them you want Big Choppas, Rerolling 5+ is WAY worse than rerolling 4+. Again you also have to look at what I just said about getting through turns quickly. If your opponent is making 5 saves instead of 9 saves it will just go faster, especially when he needs to roll them 3 times (Dafuq!!)

Attack Profile Similarity
This is the other side of the Big Choppa Debate. Since both your Pairs of Choppas and Single Choppa with Orruk Forged Shield are both rolling 4+/3+/-/1 you can roll them all together rather than having to split them. Whether this is faster or slower is really down to how many dice you have and how easily you can count it, I found apparently I suck at this. 

The Boss
The extension of the above is that your boss has +1 to hit. This means his profile is almost always different from the normal Orruks. As such you have to roll his hits attacks separately whatever. However, you can roll his hits separately then throw them in with the other wound rolls for the same weapon type. It also means that whatever options you're running your boss should have an offensive weapon. He's going to be almost the last to die anyway and you might as well milk that +1 to hit.

Throwing the Meta Together
Personally I would recommend taking 10-20 Orruk Forged Shields and 10-20 Big Choppas. I found that I spent so much time rolling my least important attacks just because of how many of them there were. As such just making less rolls with an extra rend appeals to me in terms of raw speed. I'd also recommend ensuring you can tell the difference between your various weapon options. Having to go through "Do I still have a shield hiding here" wasted a bunch of time. As such in future I'm going to try and put some sort of distinguishing mark on the models shoulders so I can spot them quickly and easily. Probably Red for Big Choppas, Blue for Shields and Teal for Pairs. 

Even More Considerations

Banners and Drummers

The rules state that they have whatever weapon option the unit has. In this case it means you get to pick which weapons you want them to use. Since there is literally no disadvantage to having more of these guys I would recommend taking them as your offensive weapon options since you want to remove them last. Keep your shields on your generic orruks again to make counting attacks easier. There are some cool modelling opportunities for these guys which can make them all appear different. Picture in the spoiler as an example. Keep the damn banners in their unit base, the guy on the left looks cool but my god he gets stuck on everything. 

Spoiler

Unit Tail
What, Orruks don't have tails. No but the unit can. This again is something which is reserved for much bigger units. I picked this up from getting CRUSHED by a very good fyreslayers player who apparently knows @Sangfroid I think he placed 4th. 

Essentially you leave a string of models out the back of your unit which both blocks off areas and puts them in range of abilities. Most notably, if you have a lot of Ironjawz Heroes, you can use Mighty Destroyers to move the unit 6" forwards. You then leave a tail out the back so that the unit is still in range of your other heroes, that way if Mighty Destroyers goes off again you can still use it on them. This works fantastically well for a tar pit unit. Get 12" of hero phase movement, 4+d6 from your Ironfist normal movement, then 2d6+3 charge range across the board to pin your opponents. This leads us to the other side of this point.

It works in REVERSE!

You only need 1 model within 3" of a model from a unit to lock both in combat. This means if you have one model at the end of a tail within range of a single model from a different unit that's 3" away you can combat lock a unit of 30 with only 1 of them able to retaliate against you. Use this to tarpit multiple enemy units and make his whole battleline a nightmare to move or attack with. This is so potent because of the potential 15" charge range that ardboys have.

Removing models and coherency
The only thing that coherency does is say you can't move out of it and if you do move you must end in it. This is important because you can form the above combat pin on multiple units then, by strategically removing models, open up lines in your ardboy unit. They now can't pile in but you don't really care. Doing this properly means you can push a huge tarpit of ardboys forward, pin your opponent in combat while reducing his retaliation attempts. Then when he kills stuff you open holes in your line for your brutes/GG's to strategically charge into. This lets you pick what combats you take and where. The big weakness is flying units but most of those are what your brutes want to eat anyway. 

Conclusion

I realise that this is a mammoth of a post but then I did say it would be. Personally I love Ardboys, I suspect that came through, and think there is so much you can do with them. What weapon choices you take and in what quantities will really come down to who you're facing, what you want to do with the unit and what your local meta game looks like. If it's 100% Sigmarines then I suggest big choppas all the way. If it's all bonesplitterz you need the Pairs of Choppas. Whatever happens though Ardboys are possibly the most flexible unit in the game. Try them out, try the different combinations and have a laugh. Pair them up with a weirdnob, add on a balewind vortext and throw out that foot of gork everyturn!

[giaric]

i liked the mammoth post! 

I decided to build my first orruks with 7 shields and 3 big weapons for the command group (even if i dont understand how to put them physically on the model that is already holding his intrument or banner)

[Malakree]

43 minutes ago, giaric said:

i liked the mammoth post! 

I decided to build my first orruks with 7 shields and 3 big weapons for the command group (even if i dont understand how to put them physically on the model that is already holding his intrument or banner)

You don't have to. You can just say they have them the boss weapon is pretty big anyway. You can model the icon of gork to look like a giant 2h, see the picture I added. The for the drummer I made one of mine into a flail with some spare skulls and chains off the kit.

Remember to max out on your command group. I think there is the option for 2 drummers per 10? There's no good reason not to. Give the drummers shields if the CG is to large to go 3/7 just remove them last.

The kit/spru has plenty of room to cut bits off some places and add them others, everything about them is really solid aswell so even butchering them like that they hold together well!

One potential solution is to have the weapon on its base rather than him holding it. If you do some sort of obvious identifier as to what the model is using, so the shoulder pads I'm going to swap to when I have time, then it's clear what they all have and nobody should have any issues.

[broche]

11 hours ago, Malakree said:

Re-roll Armour saves
At the moment fyreslayers are in style in a big way. A huge part of that is the massive amount of saves they roll. a 4+ rerollable followed by 6++ makes them super hard to strip off the board. Against them you want Big Choppas, Rerolling 5+ is WAY worse than rerolling 4+. Again you also have to look at what I just said about getting through turns quickly. If your opponent is making 5 saves instead of 9 saves it will just go faster, especially when he needs to roll them 3 times (Dafuq!!)

Which FS units get a 4+ reroll (before their special save)?

can't find it

[Malakree]

5 minutes ago, broche said:

Which FS units get a 4+ reroll (before their special save)?

can't find it

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-fyreslayers-battlesmith-en.pdf

Of course you can always take rock lobbas to nuke him off the board but he's still a real ****** to deal with.

[broche]

oh wow, ok it's good

[Lardidar]

Very interesting topic, interested to hear your take on the Mawcrusher options, for completion's sake!

[Malakree]

On 24/11/2017 at 11:21 PM, Lardidar said:

Very interesting topic, interested to hear your take on the Mawcrusher options, for completion's sake!

Sadly I've never actually played with a maw krusha so would be making theory crafting statements with no game experience to back it up.

@Sangfroid or @Chris Tomlin are far better positioned to talk about that.

The only thing I will say is magnetise the megaboss both on the cabbage and it's weapons. That flexibility is important.

[PlasticCraic]

Excellent post Malakree.  I would love to have room for a unit of 30 Ardboys, but I can't find a way to squeeze it in.   The fact that you went on to say you don't use a Maw Krusha partially explains that I guess!  Still something I need to try though, and as you pointed out very clearly, and combination of shields and your choice of offensive weaponry is the way to go.

One thing I would add to the discussion is that the Command Ability you are planning to use also has an impact.  If you are using the Mighty Waaagh!, the Big Choppas become more valuable than the dual-wielding weapons in many cases, because that 1 extra attack you are getting per dude is more valuable when it has rend.  I ran the numbers and I believe that against a standard 4+ save, they are dead level on damage output with the Mighty Waagh! in place, anything better than that (including rerolls) and the Big Choppas are better.

I know that @Chris Tomlin historically has been a major advocate of Inspiring his Brutes rather than calling the Waagh.  I'd be interested to know whether that's still the case?  Personally I've been calling the Waaagh! in most situations under GH17, because the Boss Skewer tips their bravery north just that little bit.

In terms of the Maw Krusha, I use the Choppa and Rip Toof fist, which from what I understand is by far and away the most popular load out.  The key reason being the extra rend.  Again, with the buffs you will often be putting on him, you are getting more value out of those bonuses the higher quality the attacks are.  So +1 to hit (Warchanter) and an extra attack on the Rip Toof Fist (Mighty Waagh) is significantly more valuable than the same on a Scrap Fist. 

On a similar theme, the Metalrippa artefact is most valuable when used on the Choppa, as the weapon option with the best combination of volume of attacks to gain the benefit, plus higher base rend (-1) and damage (2) than the Scrap Tooth.  With this build you can have rend -2 multiple damage attacks coming out your ears, which is awesome against things like Saurus Guard and Treelord Ancients.  Sometimes only rend -2 will do, and that's essentially the main reason I think Choppa + Rip Toof Fist is the optimum combo.

 

[Malakree]

Actually I've been thinking of how I'd fit them into my army once I get a cabbage and it's not "that" difficult. The difference between a footboss and a cabbage is only 320 points. So the options I've been looking at loosely are

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Gitmob Grot Shaman (80)

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Total: 1790 / 2000

This leaves 210 points spare which can be a couple of things

Gitmob shaman upgraded to

--> Weirdnob and Wurrgog 

--> Weirdnob and Ironfist/Aleguzzler 

--> Wurrgog and 3 ggs.

+2 rock lobbas

2 units of 20 gitmob grots  (objective holding and space denial)

10 brutes swapped for 6 goregruntas  (+80 points for 290 spare)

+6 more goregruntas. So 3*6

a whole host of other options.

 

Anyway, you should be able to see that it's really easy to fit 30 ardboyz into the list. It's only 990 points for.

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Total: 990 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
 

Which gives you a solid core to build off. Personally the more I play with the ardboyz the more that are superstars. The bravery 8 is a massive boon we just don't get elsewhere and they don't do in considerable damage.

If instead you tactically move and remove models they can tarpited entire armies for turns at a time. They also give you that mythical 20+ which is huge for 1/3rd of the scenarios.

Overall they have been the one unit I'm not sure I could replace, ggs and brutes perform similar roles of heavy elites with different foci but you can't get another good movement tarpit!

[PlasticCraic]

Yeah, that makes sense.  Another option for those points could be the batallion + upgrade the Shaman to a Weirdnob, coming in at 1990?

I think in my case I'm more hesitant to give up on what the Troggoth Hag brings to the table - that damage outside of the combat phase, the can-opener role she can play on death stars with her warscroll spell, and the addition of another durable hero for Duality of Death.  I also like the fact that she can act entirely independently if required.  So the starting point for my lists currently is the Maw Krusha, a Warchanter, 10 Brutes, the Hag and the Ironfist (can't let go of that crutch!)

That leaves 580 points to play with and 2x battleline still required, so as you can see I can't quite fit in the 30x Ardboyz (with 3x GGs you come to 590!).  My Maw Krusha loadout is essentially Ironclad, Armour of Gork, Mystic Shield and YOLO him into the enemy's face.  It really does require Mystic Shield to be effective, so that wouldn't be available to the Ardboyz in most cases - so although I could drop certain elements of that core build, it would really be a fundamental change to the way my army functions.  I do need to give it a try though.

[Malakree]

Yeah the thing I'm most likely to drop us the Ironfist and the brutes tbh. 

I love the brutes but they are incredibly vulnerable and so slow even with the Ironfist it'****** or miss whether they get into combat.

The ggs on the other hand are as fast without the Ironfist as the brute are with and you save 80 points. When playing them in 3s I found them to be meh but in 6s they are some incredibly dangerous shock cav. The fact they also don't just get battleshocked off the board is so nice. Your opponent needs to do a min of 6 wounds with no trickery to even force a check.

I'm seriously looking at buying enough start collecting boxes over the next 6-8 months to let me run this monstrosity.

Allegiance: Ironjawz 

Leaders
Gordrakk The Fist of Gork (620)
- General

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Battalions
Gorefist (220)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
 

Maybe something like this in the interim, means I only need 12 to run the list not 18. Also gives me the 3 extra hero's and the buffs to make my explosion even harder.

It is 2 drops vs 5 aswell though which is a reasonably large problem.

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Gordrakk The Fist of Gork (620)
- General
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner 
- Allies

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Battalions
Gorefist (220)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 140 / 400

Anyway we've kinda wandered off topic probably shouldn't clog the thread (to late haha)