Major Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Let me first start by saying, for the most part, my gaming experiences are always positive and enjoyable. I meet amazing people who are polite, helpful, GENEROUS, kind, and overall just brilliant people. I’ve made lifelong friends through hobby like many of you have too! But recently a few people have mentioned some not-so-great experiences and I too experienced a few. But to those nice people out there who a truly a joy to game with, you know who you are, and thank you. You make the hobby worth staying in. Being that I work in Management, I have seen a fair lot of motivational speakers in my time. One thing I learnt is that there is a reason these speakers use sports as metaphors for life. But the same, you could argue, can be said about hobby. More accurately though, would be the competitive gaming side of Warhammer. Looking at this there are numerous parallels between what it takes to be successful in real life and on the table. The qualities of skill, hard work and determination all contribute to a players chances of success in either arena. There is a specific parallel though, that I have noticed doesn’t seem to get the attention it deserves lately, and that’s the connection between a players character of the table and his/her sportsmanship on it. Being a “good sport” covers a vast amount of a players character, most importantly, respect. A good sport respects his/her team (if he is in one) and his/her opponents equally. They play with integrity and any win that isn’t achieved fairly brings no satisfaction. They are honest in their dealings with opponents because they know how they wish to be treated, and understand in order for this to happen they need to treat their opponent the same way. They are unselfish in their honest want to see their teammates/friends/opponents participate and enjoy the game and, finally, they are humble in their victories and have the proper perspective on their losses. In short, these qualities are the ones that go into making a good person and contribute greatly to being a great player. It appears (going by reports and stories relayed back to me of late), in some circles and places, that unfortunately, as peoples characters off the table decline, so too, does their behaviour on it (I always wondered if this was due to the newer, more emotionally disconnected youth of today being online and less personal etc. Wondered, not stating as fact). People are more likely to get cranky when they lose, or gloat a lot when they win. Some just take the game too far. Players should understand that good sportsmanship can dramatically enhance the experience of both playing and overall participation in events. Players feel encouraged by others and take satisfaction in the fact the game was played fairly. As both a player and a fan of watching others compete, I have definitely noted that some players could possibly use a bit of brushing up on their sportsmanship etiquette. So to anyone that might be reading this and knows deep down they sometimes aren’t at their best, please remember… - Be a team player when you are in a team - Stay positive - Keep trash talk to a minimum - Lose gracefully - Win with class - Respect your opponent - Watch your language (know your surroundings) - Respect the rulings of TO’s - Treat others how you want to be treated Happy gaming everyone, and thanks for all being such good sports! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evz22 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Agreed, Honestly, I kind of wish that Warhammer and 40k had never become big matched-play tournament games, and just sorta remained their old RPG-ish self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. White Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I went through these pains with BB in the late 90s early 00s. A lot of the zany stuff was pulled in favor of balance, tiers, and competitive play by the vocal tournament players. Still a fun game, and I love it, but I do prefer casual games and leagues over tournaments. I was, and am, drawn to AoS through Open and Narrative Play. I wish GW were able to stick more to the Open Play guns, but I understand the minis wargame market isn't as large for simple narrative driven games. Seems a healthy competitive scene helps drive sales and new buyers. Plus, people playing narrative games are probably in their garages with buddies...out of sight of store owners. Looks like a set of firm rules is necessary for strangers to play in community areas...areas store owners like to see gamers play to drive sales. Thus, points and such are necessary for strangers and rules of play in neutral environments. Guess the above comes across as points vs non-points. Didn't mean for it to, but with strangers there are different table decorum. Seems playing strangers results in -> requiring points which results in -> list optimization and tournament style play (ie "play to win") Doesn't seem like there's an easy answer. Best I can suggest is play with your mates or other folks who want the same vibe in a game (whether Open, Narrative or Matched). Playing randos at the local store is going to be a bit more hit and miss on tabletop expectations. Good luck, all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fraser Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 13 hours ago, Major said: As both a player and a fan of watching others compete, I have definitely noted that some players could possibly use a bit of brushing up on their sportsmanship etiquette. So to anyone that might be reading this and knows deep down they sometimes aren’t at their best, please remember… - Be a team player when you are in a team - Stay positive - Keep trash talk to a minimum - Lose gracefully - Win with class - Respect your opponent - Watch your language (know your surroundings) - Respect the rulings of TO’s - Treat others how you want to be treated Happy gaming everyone, and thanks for all being such good sports! eh-ehhh. Wrong. (done for dramatic effect, nice list more or less) - Be a team player when you are in a team, or else you're getting thrown under the bus every round - Stay positive don't whinge about your luck/dice, sometimes they ****** you but that's not your opponents fault - Keep trash talk to a minimum an appropriate level to those you're playing games with - Lose gracefully - except where being ungraceful is done in a humorous manner, I favour childlike jumping up and down tantrums and giving my models a telling off - Win with class, and then shout "in your face loser" while *throwing the L sign on your forehead*, obviously subject to point 3 above - Respect your opponent, unless they breach point 4 above, in which case crush them beneath your heel and enjoy the lamentations of their wimmin - Watch your language (know your surroundings) - F**k yeah - Respect the rulings of TO’s, but expect them to rip the ****** out of you if you ask a damn fool question - Treat others how you want to be treated, see above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fraser Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 EDIT - What I can say ****** or ******, ****** nanny state ****** you TGA you bunch of ****** ******. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 13 hours ago, Major said: It appears (going by reports and stories relayed back to me of late), in some circles and places, that unfortunately, as peoples characters off the table decline, so too, does their behaviour on it (I always wondered if this was due to the newer, more emotionally disconnected youth of today being online and less personal etc. Wondered, not stating as fact). I read this too and wonder where bad sportsmanship actually happens. Because i think it probably doesnt to the extent its rumored too, more likely its the usual or exaggeration for the sake of making a boring story slightly less boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunkhouseBuster Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 15 hours ago, Major said: - Treat others how you want to be treated While I do appreciate the sentiment of The Golden Rule here, I find it just isn't enough in this day and age. It is a nice goal, sure, but the problem is that some people will do just this and still come off as jerks. For example, ultra-competitve players versus Narrative/casual players; a WAAC powergamer will bring their hardest list without a second thought, and utterly defeat the army of the more relaxed player. Sure the relaxed player may be okay with it, but often times they aren't, and the powergamer cannot comprehend why their opponent did not have fun, because it is how they have fun themselves. The trick is to not treat others the way you want to be treated, but how they want to be treated. It's not just a matter of doing what you want as much as being kind and showing a willingness to work with your opponent and deciding what kind of gaming experience you both want ahead of time. Don't just treat others the way you want to be treated, but ask them what they want. If you just use yourself as a baseline, you are: a) limiting your exposure to new ideas and experiences, and b) forcing your views onto others. In my eye, so many people aren't willing to put out the energy to ask their opponent what they want, which is a shame. People just want to play their one right way and get the game in and move on. People are afraid of effort and creativity in their games, and won't put in the time to talk to the other player that they are wanting to play. Instead, it's just "Choose how many points, build list, roll mission, and roll for first turn." That's less a game and more a business arrangement. So don't just think "What would I like to do?" when you should be thinking "What would they like to do?" Put others first, use some effort, learn empathy, and relax. Help your opponents to have fun, not just show them what you think is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCharisma Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 18 hours ago, Major said: Being that I work in Management, I have seen a fair lot of motivational speakers in my time. One thing I learnt is that there is a reason these speakers use sports as metaphors for life. But the same, you could argue, can be said about hobby. More accurately though, would be the competitive gaming side of Warhammer. Looking at this there are numerous parallels between what it takes to be successful in real life and on the table. The qualities of skill, hard work and determination all contribute to a players chances of success in either arena. There is a specific parallel though, that I have noticed doesn’t seem to get the attention it deserves lately, and that’s the connection between a players character of the table and his/her sportsmanship on it. Being a “good sport” covers a vast amount of a players character, most importantly, respect. A good sport respects his/her team (if he is in one) and his/her opponents equally. They play with integrity and any win that isn’t achieved fairly brings no satisfaction. They are honest in their dealings with opponents because they know how they wish to be treated, and understand in order for this to happen they need to treat their opponent the same way. They are unselfish in their honest want to see their teammates/friends/opponents participate and enjoy the game and, finally, they are humble in their victories and have the proper perspective on their losses. In short, these qualities are the ones that go into making a good person and contribute greatly to being a great player. As a "motivational speaker", I'll put my spin on sportsmanship in wargaming. I talk through a model called the Success Spiral which explains that your Identity is NOT tied to your Results. In wargaming (not just Age of Sigmar), we can easily approach an opponent with the outcome already in mind... a major victory and/or tournament win. We can confidently approach that table because we've won a lot of games in the past, our list is heavily refined, and our friends tell us that we're a strong player. Based on all of this previous experience I am a great player and I should win. Our Identity influences our Actions during the game which ultimately impact the results. We might be too confident in achieving our Major Victory that we don't think through our deployment as much as we normally do, and make assumptions about the way units will interact. The Result doesn't go our way and we tell ourselves Stories... blame the dice.... blame not winning priority... blame our opponent... etc. We might not verbalize our stories but they go on to shape our Identity. Our new Identity might see us approach our next opponent less friendly, or we hide certain tricks that our army can do, etc. This is known as a spiral because we can spiral down through the continual retelling of negative stories, or spiral up where we approach tournament/game looking to meet great people, roll some dice and have some fun... and the result is that we achieve these goals. I guess I'm sharing this small insight because it's easy to tell somebody to be positive and remain positive, however; we may not know how to break the cycle of negativity. You'll never control the cards that you are dealt in life, but you can control how you respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I'm not convinced sportsmanship is declining, just that loud obnoxious people are more confident to be publically loud and obnoxious thanks to the way society is driving wedges between people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 Hahahaha. Gosh I enjoy this community so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ar-Pharazôn Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 As wargaming is quite small in my area, I've yet to encounter this behavior in Warhammer, but we have a large amount of MtG players, and powergaming, poor sportsmanship, and an unwelcoming atmosphere are pretty common. There's a Tabletop and Card Gaming Club on my college campus, and I was unable to introduce anyone there to Warhammer because of the atmosphere. Mentioning Age of Sigmar to someone at a local Magic tournament resulted in an angry man telling me off. In summary, I definitely see a lot of poor behavior in competitive/gaming hobbies, and as a result I've had to be selective in who I introduce to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OracleOfScales Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Here's the thing about gaming, gamers and when I see people get physically/emotionally upset about it. Granted, I very nearly passed away in April has affected my general view of life and most probably as a direct result gaming. Here's the way I see it. Games results, just don't matter in the grand scheme of life. They just don't, unless you're playing for life changing events, (You win a house, you win a million) the results of games just don't matter in the big picture. I've played Guildball for a couple of years now. I'm now ranked <40 in the World and you know what, it makes NO difference. I don't get any life points when I die because I've won a few games. I don't lose any life points if I lose game. All that ultimately matters in games is the time you spend inside the game so bloody enjoy it. Laugh at your bad dice, have a giggle when your 1" out of a charge or your slann blows up in a dazzling firework show. Why? Because when you walk away from that game the only thing that will be different is the time on the clock when you started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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