Napalm Backflip Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Hi there! I'm looking for help giving more meat to an idea I've had. I'd like to take a Chaos army and make them look like the good guys. My idea started with the thought of painting a force of Knights in blue, gold, and silver, along the lines of Stormwind colors from Warcraft. That led me to think they should be primarily dedicated to Tzeentch, who I feel would take great delight in having a force of his chosen be held up as paragons of virtue. Perhaps a city state of some kind has long been dedicated (at the highest levels of power and behind the scenes) to Chaos in general. Something about that gives me a chuckle. And then, further on, my existing (unpainted) force of Bloodbound could join as shock troops or 'irregulars'. The idea is obviously in its infancy and I'd love your help to flesh it out. What do think? Conversion ideas? Fluffy changes? Chaos knights on Pegasi? Looking forward to thoughts you might have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 12 hours ago, Napalm Backflip said: in blue, gold, and silver, It is Tzeentch colors, yes. Long before the Warcraft as well read "City of secrets", it's just about what you would like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperHappyTime Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 16 hours ago, Napalm Backflip said: Hi there! I'm looking for help giving more meat to an idea I've had. I'd like to take a Chaos army and make them look like the good guys. My idea started with the thought of painting a force of Knights in blue, gold, and silver, along the lines of Stormwind colors from Warcraft. That led me to think they should be primarily dedicated to Tzeentch, who I feel would take great delight in having a force of his chosen be held up as paragons of virtue. Perhaps a city state of some kind has long been dedicated (at the highest levels of power and behind the scenes) to Chaos in general. Something about that gives me a chuckle. And then, further on, my existing (unpainted) force of Bloodbound could join as shock troops or 'irregulars'. The idea is obviously in its infancy and I'd love your help to flesh it out. What do think? Conversion ideas? Fluffy changes? Chaos knights on Pegasi? Looking forward to thoughts you might have! I thought Chaos was the good guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumperpa Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Mengal Miniatures featured a cool army that was "Good" chaos. http://www.mengelminiatures.com/2017/05/gallery-cult-of-slaanesh-by-elfhead.html Something similar might work? Personally, I like the idea of Tzeentch using the army to manipulate their "allies" in order. They could be from a realm where a different chaos good, Khorne perhaps, had power, and Tzeentch built the city as a stronghold. Refugees fled there to hide from the barbarians. Alternatively, the city might have once been good, but their wizards fell to Tzeentch as a way to protect the city, as they worked to unlock magic to defend themselves. The bulk of the army might even think they still serve the forces of good. When the Stormcast arrived, they joined forces to defeat Khorne, all the while the followers of Tzeentch hiding their identity. As the Khorne followers were being driven away, the city secretly recruited them in a bid to have power to rival the Stormcast. The Khorne warriors were fine killing their own, blood for the blood god, and it meant more troops for the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 As an idea, my Tzangor are built from High Aelf Phoenix Guard. The concept is that they infiltrate the city under powerful illusions, and the models represent them just as they're dropping, before they shed the unwanted armour. There's also the various Slaves to Darkness units which parallel the Free People, from Chaos Knights, to Chaos Warriors, Maurauders etc. Mix up the models with traditional Free People, so the Chaos icons are subtle and hidden. Maybe the Chaos Warriors all bear round, wooden shields and lack horns on their helms, or have bare heads, maybe the Maurauders are lightly armoured skirmishers with throwing axes and shields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napalm Backflip Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 9 hours ago, Menkeroth said: It is Tzeentch colors, yes. Long before the Warcraft as well read "City of secrets", it's just about what you would like. Oh thanks for the recommendation, it sounds like a fun book. I'll check it out. 5 hours ago, SuperHappyTime said: I thought Chaos was the good guys. Oh so they got to you already.... goooood. 2 hours ago, mumperpa said: Mengal Miniatures featured a cool army that was "Good" chaos. http://www.mengelminiatures.com/2017/05/gallery-cult-of-slaanesh-by-elfhead.html Oh very cool army. I was thinking of using the Sigvald mini as well! And I appreciate the fluff ideas. Thats the stuff that always keeps me coming back to this game anyway. 2 hours ago, Lucio said: As an idea, my Tzangor are built from High Aelf Phoenix Guard. The concept is that they infiltrate the city under powerful illusions, and the models represent them just as they're dropping, before they shed the unwanted armour. There's also the various Slaves to Darkness units which parallel the Free People, from Chaos Knights, to Chaos Warriors, Maurauders etc. Mix up the models with traditional Free People, so the Chaos icons are subtle and hidden. Maybe the Chaos Warriors all bear round, wooden shields and lack horns on their helms, or have bare heads, maybe the Maurauders are lightly armoured skirmishers with throwing axes and shields Did you convert your Tzangor / Phoenix guard? Or just subbing models? I only ask because my conversion-fu is pretty weak generally, but I definitely like the idea of mixing models up. I'm not super concerned about any sort of tournament legal stuff, as I primarily play friendly games. The models will also be used for everything from AoS to KoW to 9th Age to Frostgrave etc, so being thematic and fluffy are more important to me than strictly following an army list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 It was a conversion, taking part of the head, and cutting away the face to replace it with left over head parts from the Tzaangor Skyfires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I'm not sure this is what you are looking for, but you should do some reading on the mostly forgotten character Malal. He (?) might be relevant to your interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FractalRain Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 This may not be the direction you want to go based on some of your comments, but the Darkoath thread also brought up an interesting idea of using the Chaos marauders and other models to represent barbarian tribes which remained loyal to Sigmar and survived the onslaught of Chaos. So you could use Chaos forces to represent the barbarian troops/specialists and make them "loyal" or neutral. Another thing to consider is the main Chaos gods are the "main" gods. In the old fluff, there are other Chaos gods, they just aren't as powerful. You could make your god a lesser-known Chaos god which may even fight against the main pantheon, so they appear to be "good" to other armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Rodrigues Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 44 minutes ago, FractalRain said: This may not be the direction you want to go based on some of your comments, but the Darkoath thread also brought up an interesting idea of using the Chaos marauders and other models to represent barbarian tribes which remained loyal to Sigmar and survived the onslaught of Chaos. So you could use Chaos forces to represent the barbarian troops/specialists and make them "loyal" or neutral. Another thing to consider is the main Chaos gods are the "main" gods. In the old fluff, there are other Chaos gods, they just aren't as powerful. You could make your god a lesser-known Chaos god which may even fight against the main pantheon, so they appear to be "good" to other armies. Yup, as FractalRain said... Hashut is one of those, the Bull-God of the chaos Dwarfs... For me I liked a lot the concept of a good Chaos army... Being someone that loves unique and "count-as" armies, I'm totally in this idea... The barbarian theme is fantastic, with a good choice of conversions or alternative minis you could come up with a very nice and striking looking army. As an example, instead of "Blood-Fiery-Red-Brassy-Khorne" you can try a "Savage-Frozen-blue-silvery-Whatever Ice deity"... Instead of a Bloodthirster, why not a "Frost Giant King/Queen" from the reaper bones range? Instead of fleshhounds, wolves (40k Fenrisian wolves would fit here), and so on... Trust this helps, AJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napalm Backflip Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 14 hours ago, Lucio said: It was a conversion, taking part of the head, and cutting away the face to replace it with left over head parts from the Tzaangor Skyfires Oh very cool! Neat idea. 11 hours ago, swarmofseals said: I'm not sure this is what you are looking for, but you should do some reading on the mostly forgotten character Malal. He (?) might be relevant to your interests. I know OF Malal, but not much in the way of details. I'll look into it. 1 hour ago, FractalRain said: This may not be the direction you want to go based on some of your comments, but the Darkoath thread also brought up an interesting idea of using the Chaos marauders and other models to represent barbarian tribes which remained loyal to Sigmar and survived the onslaught of Chaos. So you could use Chaos forces to represent the barbarian troops/specialists and make them "loyal" or neutral. Another thing to consider is the main Chaos gods are the "main" gods. In the old fluff, there are other Chaos gods, they just aren't as powerful. You could make your god a lesser-known Chaos god which may even fight against the main pantheon, so they appear to be "good" to other armies. I do like this. I'm kind of rolling with the idea of this group being legit evil, just masquerading (knowingly or perhaps not) as good. But definitely like the idea of using something outside the standard Chaos pantheon. 34 minutes ago, Antonio Rodrigues said: Yup, as FractalRain said... Hashut is one of those, the Bull-God of the chaos Dwarfs... For me I liked a lot the concept of a good Chaos army... Being someone that loves unique and "count-as" armies, I'm totally in this idea... The barbarian theme is fantastic, with a good choice of conversions or alternative minis you could come up with a very nice and striking looking army. As an example, instead of "Blood-Fiery-Red-Brassy-Khorne" you can try a "Savage-Frozen-blue-silvery-Whatever Ice deity"... Instead of a Bloodthirster, why not a "Frost Giant King/Queen" from the reaper bones range? Instead of fleshhounds, wolves (40k Fenrisian wolves would fit here), and so on... Trust this helps, AJ Oh hell yes. I love the Reaper Frost giants, and that would be a pretty cool idea. Perhaps this realm is a large city state on the border of a frozen waste. The Chaos warriors and knights could be the standing army of the city and the Bloodbound and Marauders I have could be the tribes from those wastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Rodrigues Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 One quick question just to understand better your idea: you are aiming for a "Order/Good/Neutral" army concept but using the minis and warscrolls of the Chaos Allegiances and warscrolls, or you want a full fledged Chaos Army (Tzeench as per your original post) but without taking the concepts from the main 4 chaos gods? Or like you said, an "infiltrated army"? I think that this "icy" theme fits well with Tzeench, which is all about cristals, blue and such... But a new minor chaos god, warring with the others trying to get a established group of worshippers will be very nice indeed! Something like "The Dreaded Rlym Shaikorth, the Ice that burns", bringing the eternal freezing to the Mortal Reals... where Nurgle is about rebirth and Tzeench about change, "Rlym-Something" is about the unyelding and never-changing, never-ending aspect of the cosmos... kkkkkkkkkkk Cheers AJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napalm Backflip Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 Oh the force will definitely be 'evil'. I really like the concept of deep evil hidden beneath of veneer of virtue and goodness. But, 'evil' just being a matter of perspective, this army thinks they're the heroes of the realm. It's probably only at the highest echelons of leadership that the true aims (perhaps the resurgence of the minor chaos god) are known. That's also why I like the idea of the ice theme. I envision this god moving with glacial slowness, playing the long game. He, through shrewd manipulation, slowly builds a small realm into a power, corrupting the highest leaders and creating a power base. Until finally all his pieces are in place, the populace is firmly under his grasp and their belief in their 'righteousness' unwavering, and he can begin to show his true form and evil more and more. Perhaps THAT is when the tribes start to show up. The hard warriors of the ice wastes don't hide their worship behind a facade of civility like the populace of the city. They are cruel, cold, and callous like the winter they worship? I dunno, just spitballing here but it sure is fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napalm Backflip Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 I'm also trying to figure out what models I want to use. I'd like to stay away from extensive conversion work if possible. I'm a very big fan of the Chaos Knight models in general, so I'll probably stick with those, and I'll be using Bloodbound models for the tribes. But I'm not much of a fan of the Chaos Warrior models. They're ok, but not tremendously inspiring. I'm trying to find some alternatives. I think Werewoolf's Sacred Band of Lust would look pretty cool with the right paint scheme, but not completely sold on them either. I also like Privateer's Praetorian models but would need to do headswaps as I don't particularly want this group to be nonhuman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Rodrigues Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 21 minutes ago, Napalm Backflip said: Oh the force will definitely be 'evil'. I really like the concept of deep evil hidden beneath of veneer of virtue and goodness. But, 'evil' just being a matter of perspective, this army thinks they're the heroes of the realm. It's probably only at the highest echelons of leadership that the true aims (perhaps the resurgence of the minor chaos god) are known. That's also why I like the idea of the ice theme. I envision this god moving with glacial slowness, playing the long game. He, through shrewd manipulation, slowly builds a small realm into a power, corrupting the highest leaders and creating a power base. Until finally all his pieces are in place, the populace is firmly under his grasp and their belief in their 'righteousness' unwavering, and he can begin to show his true form and evil more and more. Perhaps THAT is when the tribes start to show up. The hard warriors of the ice wastes don't hide their worship behind a facade of civility like the populace of the city. They are cruel, cold, and callous like the winter they worship? I dunno, just spitballing here but it sure is fun! Loved the concept!If you are into conversions, the possibilities are endless... In my humble opinion, if the concept is this, I would do them very "clean & nice looking", without all the gore and mutations typical of chaos... Maybe some on the marauders/savages tribes, but not much... And leave all the chaosy weirdnedd for a true leader, a sorcerer or daemon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Rodrigues Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Napalm Backflip said: I'm also trying to figure out what models I want to use. I'd like to stay away from extensive conversion work if possible. I'm a very big fan of the Chaos Knight models in general, so I'll probably stick with those, and I'll be using Bloodbound models for the tribes. But I'm not much of a fan of the Chaos Warrior models. They're ok, but not tremendously inspiring. I'm trying to find some alternatives. I think Werewoolf's Sacred Band of Lust would look pretty cool with the right paint scheme, but not completely sold on them either. I also like Privateer's Praetorian models but would need to do headswaps as I don't particularly want this group to be nonhuman. Agree that the Chaos warriors are not very inspiring... They are nice models, but very static, they are done to look good ranked up in the old world-that-was, but with round bases and not ranked, they look much less impressive... One thing that you can try is using their bodies, but swapping the hands with 40k Space wolves weapons and shields... Since their arms are on the main body, this is a very simple but effective conversion, you would just need to cut the SW weapons at the wirst a glue them, same with the shields. This would give them a tribal, winter/wolfy theme, clean but yet savage and not overly chaotic... Even the SW un-helmeted heads would fit quite nicely, I've done this before for a 40k 13th Company army... works like a charm! Cheers AJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambot1231 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 White armor color seems a little different and cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Render Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Awesome idea. Really digging the fluff brainstorming as well. If you're looking for heavily armored infantry but don't like Chaos Warriors, I'd recommend Liberators. Their poses are a bit more dynamic, and they can look quite different if you change out their heads, shields, weapons, and maybe shoulder pads. I haven't done it personally, but I don't imagine this would be too difficult. Google should provide a few examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napalm Backflip Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Antonio Rodrigues said: Loved the concept!If you are into conversions, the possibilities are endless... In my humble opinion, if the concept is this, I would do them very "clean & nice looking", without all the gore and mutations typical of chaos... Maybe some on the marauders/savages tribes, but not much... And leave all the chaosy weirdnedd for a true leader, a sorcerer or daemon... Yeah, definitely thinking minimal if any mutations. I may have a small group that has them. They could be referred to as 'Blessed' or 'Touched', rather than mutated. Thanks for the conversion thoughts too! 2 hours ago, Cambot1231 said: White armor color seems a little different and cool Oh man, they look good, but the thought of painting that much white... yikes! 49 minutes ago, Render said: Awesome idea. Really digging the fluff brainstorming as well. If you're looking for heavily armored infantry but don't like Chaos Warriors, I'd recommend Liberators. Their poses are a bit more dynamic, and they can look quite different if you change out their heads, shields, weapons, and maybe shoulder pads. I haven't done it personally, but I don't imagine this would be too difficult. Google should provide a few examples. I didn't even think of Liberators but that might be perfect. Really, if I swap the shields for warrior shields with the Chaos Star that may be all I need. Well, and no hammers obviously. This army will be doing double (triple... quadruple?) duty in other games I play such as Kings of War and 9th Age so they may be difficult to rank up, but I can figure that out or just handwave it with a movement tray of some sort. Might be on to something there. I'll have to see how they match up with the Knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfunct Bot Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 I've been toying around in the past with the concept of a human Free City detached from Sigmar and stuck in the a** end of the Realm of Beasts. Constantly beset by and under attack from both Greenskins (of all varieties) and the forces of Chaos the myriad cultures that the city consists of have all taken to worshipping their own war and warrior gods, which in truth are all just Khorne under a different name. Khorne, of course caring not from where the blood flows, only that it flows, treats these guys as any other followers as, despite bring civilised and not a raving bunch of lunatics they are still shedding a tremendous amount of blood in their continuous wars against Chaos and the Greenskins, and even dispenses rewards among them (though these are simpler and subtler than what the Bloodbound would get, simply manifesting as greater endurance, strength, ect. This is also how I fluff my Freeguild Generals being able to tank hits that would fell a Stormcast.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 What do you think about Malal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageBoss Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Actually in older fluff there used to be good aspects to Chaos, including the main 4. There were even nations, such as Cathay, that had cults venerating these positive aspects exclusively. 40K themed, but the lore is still mostly accurate (language warning): Other than that you also have tons of lesser gods and a handful of rogue gods. Malal has been mentioned a few times already. But Necoho and Zuvassin are also 2 that are no longer talked about (and a bit more interesting imo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Chaos god are patrons of bad traits AND good trait. For tzeentch it's change, hope, Ambition, politics,, progress, knowledge, and magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erasercrumbs Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Nurgle is already the good guy of Warhammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCharisma Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I imagine Good Chaos as an army which has seen the light of Sigmar, and is looking to atone for their sins & crimes. I see Mauraders, I see Chaos Warriors and Knights without helmets, and banners that are devoted to Sigmar and are probably saying sorry. I see a Good Chaos army that isn't quite Good yet... but they are on a path to redeem themselves by defending others in hope for forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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