Starting AoS Death

[GingerGiant]

It double-posted on me. Refer to my next reply.

[GingerGiant]

On 11/16/2017 at 2:11 AM, smucreo said:

You have to save points for summoning right? What benefits does it give you? Does it basically allow you to deepstrike with any unit capable of being summoned (since I assume you have a range of a few inches forward where you can summon units)? If so, considering I'll probably be running a GA Death allegiance list, wouldn't it be just better to just use the wraith fleet allegiance, which gives me a similar benefit?

The Wraith Fleet ability does grant a similar benefit, but you are limited to Soulblight, Deathmages, Deathratlle, and Nighthaunt. You don't have access to Deathlords or Deadwalkers, outside of summoning. No Corpse Cart for you. Summoning is not limited to table edges, but does share the 9" away from enemies restriction.

You must set aside "reinforcement points" to summon in your army list, and the units you summon get to "deep strike" within the parameters of the summon. It's usually within 18" of the caster, and outside 9" of any enemies. The main benefit is that summoning is very flexible  for Death Wizards: you don't have to ally things you summon, you can summon anything with a warscroll spell that says, "Death Wizards know the Raise ________", you can ignore limits to Heroes, Behemoths, and Artillery, and you don't have to write down what you summon beforehand. You just need to have the points set aside, and have the models prepared to put on the table.  Most Death units will have their specific summoning spell listed on the unit's warscroll, and the prerequisite is almost always that the caster be a Death Wizard. Because summoned units use the common "deep strike" rules, the only unit you can summon that will reliably pull off a charge is the Morghast Harbinger.

For example, you could run Deathrattle allegiance to have a Horde of Skeletons, a unit of Grave Guard, and a Wight King. Ally a Necromancer, because he'll have some good buffs for your army, and let you summon more. Give your Wight King the Master of the Black Arts Command Trait to turn him into a Wizard. Congratulations, you have two units with which to summon more units. There's an Artefact called the Sword of Unholy Power which gives you, once per battle, one guaranteed summon in addition to your other spells. Use that to summon a Mourngul. I think you can give it to the Wight King, even if he doesn't actually have the Master of the Black Arts Command Trait to make it a Wizard.

If you're going for a summoning-centric list, I think you should plan on summoning the majority of your reinforcement points at your earliest opportunity, because your earliest opportunity may be your only opportunity. Your future summons could be dispelled (Sword of Unholy Power, aside) once your opponent's Wizards close in, your Wizards could get shot off the board, or your opponent could maneuver such that it is impossible for you to summon anything. You could fail every summoning roll, too. For these reasons, bring multiple methods for summoning. I recommend two Wizards (or one Wizard and a Sword of Unholy Power), and then find a good way to buff their casting. When you build summoning into your list, determine, based on the Wizards and buffs you have available, how many points of units you can reliably summon (Casting Value 4 or 5, and sometimes 6) in the first turn, and then use that to set your Reinforcement points. Unless, of course, your plan is SUMMON MOURNGUL, which requires 400 reinforcement points and a lot of luck, or 400 reinforcement points and one Sword of Unholy Power.

Of particular noteworthiness are Arkhan the Black and Nagash, who have bonuses to casting summoning spells, are durable, and can cast multiple spells each turn. Arkhan is cheap enough to ally in a 2000 point army, but at lower points you  won't have that luxury. If you like Soulbight, consider running a pair of Vampire Lords (sans Zombie Dragon) with the Necromantic Bloodline.  Then you have two solid summoners who can reliably get you the Casting Value 4 and 5 summons, and the Tomb Banshee becomes every so much more tempting to summon. The Command Trait for Vampire Lords buffs any Death unit, which I think makes them an exceptional choice for summoners.

[Dracothjay]

When does the wraith fleet allegiance ability drop? Would love to build my army around it!

[smucreo]

20 hours ago, Bradifer said:

You should magnetize the different rider's butts on the dread abyssal.

If you're newer and that seems like a hard task, just don't build any of the riders yet and just play with the dread abyssal w/out a rider. Just tell your opponent he's not finished but you're running Arkhan.

When you're up for it, you cans imply place a small magnet into the seat/saddle on the dread abyssal and then put a magnet in the opposite polarity to the bottom of each of the rider's butts. Now you can switch between each of the very different mortarchs. 

There is a point when you will move past 1K games and you will really appreciate being able to spend ~100 more points and turn Arkhan into Manfredd or Neferata who are much stronger in combat.

We all play our death armies differently, but I like playing with more elite units rather than hordes.

I can tell you the strongest units IMO:

• Morghast Archai
• Zombie Dragon/Terrorgheist with either Ghoul King or Vampire Lord. (Which one depends on if you're running FEC stuff for synergy or not).
• 40 skeletons or40  zombies buffed by a necromancer
• Tarpitting enemies with spirit hosts
• Tarpitting enemies with dire wolves
• 6 Crypt Horrors or 6 Crypt Flayers backed by a Varghulf or their Infernal Haunter/Flayer hero. That makes the group deadly and regenerating.
• Mourngul
• One of the three Mortarchs. I found Neferata's debuff to be the strongest, while Mannfred has more dangerous attacks and magic. Arkhan has the curse and is decent vs small things in combat.
• Timely Mortis Engine Bombs

I've never played any TK, but these units ^ above are the most reliable ways for me to beat opponents. Death is generally slower except for the pieces that are actually really fast. You don't want to split your army too much with the slow stuff taking 2 more turns to get there. I find the battleline units are best at holding objectives because they're tarpitty and slow. Unless you have 40 then it will kill most things, but then you have to think about movement etc.

I like your approach of 'figure out which starter boxes to get' but I think you should make a 1.5K list, a 2K list, then narrow down and make the 1K knowing that your purchases can all line up and you wont have 10 unbuilt hexwraiths like some of us haha.

EDIT: For the record I find most non-GA Death armies to be very limiting in design scope. They did not plan their warscrolls around allegiances kicking out half the other death units, so you will end up with a somewhat spammy list that will probably have some big holes in it. I say embrace GA-Death and play with a huge range of units. That or go deep in FEC but its a pretty limiting playstyle (i.e. always melee, always going for attrition). Deathrattle may have a book eventually so alternatively you could  build up a 1k list and focus on getting a 40-skeleton bloc, supplementing with other skeleton things until the book comes out - but who knows when that will be.

Yeah, I've come to realize I'm better off just thinking big (2k points) and building my army coming with more of a "from top to bottom" approach, and I've been growing fonder to the idea of going for GA:Death since I really don't want to be that restricted when list building. That said, your comment is still of great value and I'll make sure I save it to look back at the tips you gave me when list building.

[smucreo]

On 17/11/2017 at 5:21 PM, GingerGiant said:

The Wraith Fleet ability does grant a similar benefit, but you are limited to Soulblight, Deathmages, Deathratlle, and Nighthaunt. You don't have access to Deathlords or Deadwalkers, outside of summoning. No Corpse Cart for you. Summoning is not limited to table edges, but does share the 9" away from enemies restriction.

You must set aside "reinforcement points" to summon in your army list, and the units you summon get to "deep strike" within the parameters of the summon. It's usually within 18" of the caster, and outside 9" of any enemies. The main benefit is that summoning is very flexible  for Death Wizards: you don't have to ally things you summon, you can summon anything with a warscroll spell that says, "Death Wizards know the Raise ________", you can ignore limits to Heroes, Behemoths, and Artillery, and you don't have to write down what you summon beforehand. You just need to have the points set aside, and have the models prepared to put on the table.  Most Death units will have their specific summoning spell listed on the unit's warscroll, and the prerequisite is almost always that the caster be a Death Wizard. Because summoned units use the common "deep strike" rules, the only unit you can summon that will reliably pull off a charge is the Morghast Harbinger.

For example, you could run Deathrattle allegiance to have a Horde of Skeletons, a unit of Grave Guard, and a Wight King. Ally a Necromancer, because he'll have some good buffs for your army, and let you summon more. Give your Wight King the Master of the Black Arts Command Trait to turn him into a Wizard. Congratulations, you have two units with which to summon more units. There's an Artefact called the Sword of Unholy Power which gives you, once per battle, one guaranteed summon in addition to your other spells. Use that to summon a Mourngul. I think you can give it to the Wight King, even if he doesn't actually have the Master of the Black Arts Command Trait to make it a Wizard.

If you're going for a summoning-centric list, I think you should plan on summoning the majority of your reinforcement points at your earliest opportunity, because your earliest opportunity may be your only opportunity. Your future summons could be dispelled (Sword of Unholy Power, aside) once your opponent's Wizards close in, your Wizards could get shot off the board, or your opponent could maneuver such that it is impossible for you to summon anything. You could fail every summoning roll, too. For these reasons, bring multiple methods for summoning. I recommend two Wizards (or one Wizard and a Sword of Unholy Power), and then find a good way to buff their casting. When you build summoning into your list, determine, based on the Wizards and buffs you have available, how many points of units you can reliably summon (Casting Value 4 or 5, and sometimes 6) in the first turn, and then use that to set your Reinforcement points. Unless, of course, your plan is SUMMON MOURNGUL, which requires 400 reinforcement points and a lot of luck, or 400 reinforcement points and one Sword of Unholy Power.

Of particular noteworthiness are Arkhan the Black and Nagash, who have bonuses to casting summoning spells, are durable, and can cast multiple spells each turn. Arkhan is cheap enough to ally in a 2000 point army, but at lower points you  won't have that luxury. If you like Soulbight, consider running a pair of Vampire Lords (sans Zombie Dragon) with the Necromantic Bloodline.  Then you have two solid summoners who can reliably get you the Casting Value 4 and 5 summons, and the Tomb Banshee becomes every so much more tempting to summon. The Command Trait for Vampire Lords buffs any Death unit, which I think makes them an exceptional choice for summoners.

hey, i dont know why but I didn't see your incredibly detailed response. thank you so much! i know i'm double posting but for some reason i can't edit my older post.