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Spirit of Durthu Solemn Guardian


Gaga.Jaga

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Hello everyone!

Since we’ve had a very bitter and long conversation about the Spirit of Durthu’s ability called Solemn Guardian.  Let’s assume a hero (Alarielle for instance) is targeted to take a wound and I’d like to redirect this wound/damage onto Durthu. What I want to know is: what is the step-by-step sequence here? Who is rolling for the save and when all the rolling happens?

I know that there has been a similar discussion earlier but since there had been no consensus there, I thought I’d ask again, maybe some official answer was developed since then ;)

Thanks for all of your replies!

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For reference:

"Solemn Guardian: Spirits of Durthu belong to no clan or glade, instead answering directly to their Everqueen. They are her sworn protectors, and when she sends them to battle they stand in defence of her chosen commanders. If an attack that targets a friendly Sylvaneth Hero within 6" of a Spirit of Durthu causes a wound, roll a dice. On a result of 4 or more the wound is inflicted on the Spirit of Durthu instead (you can make a save roll as normal)."

Emphasis mine. "Causes a wound" means "Successfully rolled to hit and successfully rolled to wound." At this point you decide to use the ability or not. If you do, Spirit of Durthu rolls a save as normal. If he fails the save, you then allocate damage to him, after which wounds have been inflicted on him.

For instance, if I cause a wound with a Gargant Hacker, you roll one save. If you fail, you allocate 3 damage to your guy, who has just been inflicted with 3 wounds. These are three specifics terms (for instance deathless minions comes in at the final step to roll 3 times as it uses the "inflict" term, while Solemn Guardian happens at the caused a wound step of the process, as the parenthetical reminds). It's confusing since they use the same word "wound" at different stages and "damage" in the middle, but RAW and RAI seem to line up here.

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24 minutes ago, heywoah_twitch said:

For reference:

"Solemn Guardian: Spirits of Durthu belong to no clan or glade, instead answering directly to their Everqueen. They are her sworn protectors, and when she sends them to battle they stand in defence of her chosen commanders. If an attack that targets a friendly Sylvaneth Hero within 6" of a Spirit of Durthu causes a wound, roll a dice. On a result of 4 or more the wound is inflicted on the Spirit of Durthu instead (you can make a save roll as normal)."

Emphasis mine. "Causes a wound" means "Successfully rolled to hit and successfully rolled to wound." At this point you decide to use the ability or not. If you do, Spirit of Durthu rolls a save as normal. If he fails the save, you then allocate damage to him (note that inflicting a wound and allocating damage is distinct).

I am not completely sure. Is
"a model suffers a wound"
the same as
"an attack causes a wound"?
 

I think it is intended as this:
1. Attack hits Alarielle.  (Let's say it would do D3 damage).
2. Attack wounds Alarielle.
3.  Check if Durthu is within 6"
4. Roll a dice, on a 4+ the wound gets redirected. If not Alarielle takes the save.
5. Durthu rolls his save roll. If he fails, roll for damage

But I totally understand how people can read it being like this:
1. Attack hits Alarielle.
2. Attack wounds Alarielle.
3. Alarielle rolls her save, fails. Damage is not yet rolled though!
4.  Check if Durthu is within 6"
5. Roll a dice, on a 4+ the wound(s) get redirected
6. Durthu rolls his save roll
7. Roll for damage


Because the wounds like in the sentence "a model suffers a wound" that we often read on warscrolls refers to damage. If a Necromancer is hit by something causing D3 damage he can try and redirect all three wounds to his Skeletons separately, doesn't he? That is AFTER the save. Same for the Eternity Warden's "Selfless Protector" but those two abilities cause mortal wounds to the recipient, while Durthu's ability explicitly says that you get a save.

So I still think variant A is intended, otherwise the part with the save makes it weird.

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Variant A is intended I'll agree, without going in circles.

Unless a little parenthetical reminder text on a random sylvanneth warscroll implies that it is game-wide 'normal' to get a saving throw after something like deathless minions even though you already failed a save to get there. Which is certainly not the case.

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Thank you very much!

It seems that indeed the first option is the most probable, however the second one is the most tempting :D I’ve also found something about it on the warhammer community site. This lead the discussion of our local group to the conclusion, that the second scenario suits the rule better since the wounds are inflicted after the save roll. Still, I freeze when I try to imagine the look on may oponent’s face when I tell him that I can save the wound twice :D

DAF77DD0-2EF4-4B84-8FF3-4FFC48A90586.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Gaga.Jaga said:

That’s exactly what I mean ;P Although Stardrake with 1+ save and rerolls of every „1” is even worse! :D 

Of course it is worse. It is SCE. Some of their units are so overpowered that I can't help but smile everytime they lose. :D
I am so sad that they are the only allies my Seraphon can choose because I don't want to play them. :(

(and yes, SCE players, I am aware the army itself isn't THAT broken. Consider this post being a tiiiny bit tongue in cheek  ;) )

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19 minutes ago, Aginor said:

Of course it is worse. It is SCE. Some of their units are so overpowered that I can't help but smile everytime they lose. :D
I am so sad that they are the only allies my Seraphon can choose because I don't want to play them. :(

(and yes, SCE players, I am aware the army itself isn't THAT broken. Consider this post being a tiiiny bit tongue in cheek  ;) )

Except that the stardrake is pillow fisted while the spirit of durthu is the most heavy-hitter in the whole game. Many units in the SCE army are VERY good, but none is overpowered, and the stardrake is far from being the best. ^_^

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Don't understand how this is taken any other way then option A. 

1. Roll to hit 

2. Roll to wound 

3. Check to see if durthu is in 6". If so you roll 4+ for Durthu to take the wound. 

4. Assuming a 4+ was rolled. Durthu now rolls his save and then takes damage accordingly. 

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