Will Destruction fit in the new narrative?

[Sheriff]

Thing with moonclan is they already have plenty of models. Perhaps a tome and new scrolls could sort them out. Spiderfang however... 

[BunkhouseBuster]

While I do love the Ironjawz, and they are one of my all-time favorite armies to play out of all the games I have played, the the other Destruction factions do need a bit more love than Ironjawz.  Battletomes and army bundles aside, Destruction has not had any other new models aside from Ironjawz since AoS was release two and a half years ago, and Death has not had anything outside of Shadespire since the End Times.  Order and Chaos are way in the lead when it comes to releases since the End Times.

It's time for the playability to spread.  Grots and Ogors could use some new models or new factions.  Death needs a couple new units to change up the playstyle a bit.  Heck, for Death, why not just bring back some of the Tomb Kings units?  I always thought the Necroshpinx and Tombstalker models were some of the coolest in WHFB, and Chariots are always awesome - change the aesthetics ever so slightly and  boom!  New sub-faction/Deathrattle units!  Ogors and Grots wouldn't be hard to help out either; just a couple new units, a Battletome or two, and there you go!

I wonder if my voice matters too much in this conversation.  I mean, right now, I'm struggling with what to get next on my budget - more Ironjawz, scenery, other AoS models, Shadespire, or Necromunda?  I want it all, but have to make tough decisions as to what I can get or not anymore.  Whatever GW does release, I probably won't get for a while, because I have so much else to work on right now as is.

I'm not too worried about future releases personally.  While there are directions that I would take product releases if I were running GW, I'm not going to fret too much over it.  I barely have time to paint or play anymore, and I'm strictly focusing on painting for the foreseeable future.  Let's see how things play out, enjoy the new releases as they come, and keep on painting and playing.

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Sheriff said:

Thing with moonclan is they already have plenty of models. Perhaps a tome and new scrolls could sort them out. Spiderfang however... 

Moonclan primarily needs allegiance abilities and battalions more than anything else. Though to be fair most of Destruction as an alliance just needs more battalions. Spiderfang is kinda awkward because battleline wise there isn't that much more to add to them. I guess there are some things you could do to expand them....hmm I started and I actually have way more ideas than I thought.

• Rename the faction to "Spiderfang" (Remove the Grots portion)

Spiderfang Allegiance

Skittering Destroyers - Roll a dice in your hero phase for each Spiderfang Hero and Spiderfang Monster. Add 2 to the roll for any Spiderfang model which is both a Hero and a Monster. On a roll of a 6 pick a friendly Spiderfang unit within 6".....

Webbed Menace - At the start of the game select up to D3 pieces of terrain which are Infested with Spiders and covered in webbing. Roll a dice for any model which ends it's movement phase within 3" of this terrain, on the roll of a 1 the unit that model belongs to takes a mortal wound. Do not roll for any models that have the Spiderfang keyword. In addition, any models with the Spiderfang keyword can fly while moving across this terrain and can choose to ignore any effects the terrain has.

At the beginning of each players turn, roll a d6. Add 2 to the roll if the battle round is higher than the number Infested terrain pieces. Subtract 2 from the roll if the battle round is lower than the number of Infested terrain pieces. On a 4+ the infestation spreads, you may select another piece of terrain which becomes Infested.

Units

Improve the Arachnarok Flinger to 3+/3+/-1/3. This would put it almost on par with the Gitmob artillery pieces Without any of the special rules or bonuses for being in a Battery.

Grot King on Arachnarok Queen.

• Significantly increased points cost, 400-600.
• Can move over any unit without the Monster keyword as if it had flying. 
• Always has 8 Attacks with it's Chitinous Legs.
• Monstrous fangs always hits on a 3+.
• Now deals D3 +3/+2/+2/+1/+0 wounds with it's monstrous fangs and Spider Venom.
• Has Crown of the Spider God Command Ability which Causes all Spiderfang units within 16"/12"/9"/6"/1" to inflict mortal wounds with their Spider Venom on a 4+ instead of a 6+.

 Trapdoor Spider Riders.

• No ranged ability, similar stats to Spider Riders.
• Patient Hunter Starts game off the board. At the start of your movement phase may be deployed completely within 3" of any Infested piece of terrain and more than 3" from enemy models
• Ambusher If there is an Enemy Unit within 9" of an Infested piece of terrain and this unit is off the board you may deploy it as described in the Patient Hunter rule. The unit is then immediately activated and can pile in up to 6".

 Grot Boss on Trapdoor Spider -

• Has Patient Hunter and Ambusher 
• No command ability.
• Similar Stats to Grot Big Boss.

Grot Shaman on Gigantic Spider

• Has Prayer - On a 4+ a piece of terrain within 12" becomes Infested 

Spiderfang Spiders

• Spiders with no riders. Giant Spider's Fangs weapon.
• Immune to Battle-shock tests while within 12" of a Spiderfang Monster
• Must take a battleshock test every turn if more than 18" away from a Spiderfang Monster 

Add in some battalions and good to go! On a serious note though, might be slightly overpowered

[Ollie Grimwood]

I strongly suspect Moonclan will be getting a Battletome release before GHB18, it might even be all Grots or possibly Geenskinz in general it’s the only reason they didn’t get anything in GHB17 I can think of.  

BCR, Bonesplitterz and FEC showed that new Narrative can be independent of new miniatures and still be very effective. 

With the Realmgate Wars being primarily Order vs Chaos I’m unsurprised it been all about them. I remains hopeful for a more Death and Destruction focused story soon. 

[Sheriff]

@Malakree you are a mind-reader? I've had many very similar thoughts, esp the flinger, trapdoor spiders (which could just be an ambush ability for regular spider riders), and adding web attacks to things, e.g. webbing enemies when retreating from combat, web-CC from the flinger, etc.. So much you could do even with the existing kits. 

 

[bonzai]

7 hours ago, Infeston said:

Jeah. In this way you are right. But the Ogor "releases" were also all just old models. As well as the Grots. So Orruks are the only Destruction faction which really got new models. To be honest, I don't mind if the next Destruction release would be Ogors or Grots as long as its not Orruks. I think a completely new faction for Destruction would also be exciting. 

Also the Orruk factions are the only Destruction factions which play a major role in the story (even though they only play a minor role compared to Stormcast and Chaos). You don't hear about some Ogors or Grots interfering in serious business or being an equal encounter to the Stormcast boys.

I also want something that differs from 40k. For me it seems like they try the same formular which worked for 40k with AoS, so that for every faction in 40k there is a faction equivalent in AoS. I wish for something that differs from 40k like Kharadron Overlords for example. There is no 40k equivalent for the Kharadron Overlords (I think Squats don't count). Also there are no Ogors, or Troggoth in 40k (there are some Ogors, but not a whole faction). I think GW should improve on things which differ from 40k rather than establishing equivalents for AoS.

But this is also just my opinion. Some people may see things a little different.

To be fair, Bonesplitterz were all old models too. Aside from mostly finecast characters you can get the whole army from two boxes. 

I can get the sentiment. With 2 years in the books, Destruction has only got some Ironjaws? By contrast Order got 3 brand new army's, and additions to Sylvaneth.  Chaos got new Khorne, tzeentch, and nurgle models. Death got some repackaging with round bases.

Let' hope year 3 see's something new for us.

 

[bonzai]

7 hours ago, Infeston said:

 

[bonzai]

7 hours ago, Infeston said:

 

[bonzai]

7 hours ago, Infeston said:

 

[bonzai]

7 hours ago, Infeston said:

 

 

[Charles]

Narratively why can’t destruction just be rolled into Khorne? 

Visually they cant because green and red clash . . . But other than that I’m not sure. 

Ps. Please don’t Foot of Gork me

[heywoah_twitch]

There's at least one canon alfrostun that follows chaos with a custom demonically cursed everwinter, so it's not impossible. 

[Menkeroth]

On 18.11.2017 at 6:12 PM, Charles said:

Narratively why can’t destruction just be rolled into Khorne? 

 

Read the fluff on both and you will find out the answer.

Other than that, Death is in much more desperate need of new books and models. But Destruction will come next, sure. For now it feels quite good anyway. But grot pirates would rock any time.

[Malakree]

Loving the double Order battleforce, no destruction  Hoping it's not a sign of times to come.

[Lucio]

I'm leaning towards Destruction to being sidelined during the next phase of narrative unless they do something unexpected with the Grots.

That said they're an unstoppable force that can turn up anywhere so we might be surprised

[Infeston]

42 minutes ago, Lucio said:

I'm leaning towards Destruction to being sidelined during the next phase of narrative unless they do something unexpected with the Grots.

That said they're an unstoppable force that can turn up anywhere so we might be surprised

Don't say that. :-( For me the short focus on Destruction at the beginning was what pulled me back into AoS. At the moment it seems like GW is not just pulling back from Destruction, but also from AoS as a whole. 

I know we should try to be positive in this forum, but sometimes it is hard for me to be always positive if it seems like GW does care less about Destruction and more about Stormcast. I don't say this because I don't like AoS, but because is really love this game. I got all my hopes up, because of the hype at the beginning.

But at the moment it seems like the AoS hype is fading away, at least for me. It still keep my hopes up. But i can't handle too much waiting. Maybe I am also just impatient. But I hope someone can understand my concerns at the moment. I want this game to succeed and want to support it. But I also only want to support it if it seems like GW is also caring about the game. I have seen too many interesting new game formats fade away and I don't want this to happen to AoS.

[Malakree]

I do findeed the focus on sigmarines to be kinda frustrating and a little bit annoying.

From my perspective not only are they one of the most populace factions but also ones of the most boring.

[Sheriff]

I'm new to the whole game and world so its mind-boggling how many cool armies and models there are to pick from, but can empathise with those that are sick of using the same old models for a decade whilst a few chosen factions get all the updates and attention. 

I'm happy with my goblins for a couple years and if nothing new comes out I'll probably just move on with life and learn guitar or something. 

[Killacat]

There should be a spiderfang monster that spawns spiders much like how the underside of the arachnarok is covered in spiders. 

 

[Gorks Pokin' Finger]

On 11/17/2017 at 4:57 PM, Malakree said:

Moonclan primarily needs allegiance abilities and battalions more than anything else. Though to be fair most of Destruction as an alliance just needs more battalions. Spiderfang is kinda awkward because battleline wise there isn't that much more to add to them. I guess there are some things you could do to expand them....hmm I started and I actually have way more ideas than I thought.

• Rename the faction to "Spiderfang" (Remove the Grots portion)

Spiderfang Allegiance

Skittering Destroyers - Roll a dice in your hero phase for each Spiderfang Hero and Spiderfang Monster. Add 2 to the roll for any Spiderfang model which is both a Hero and a Monster. On a roll of a 6 pick a friendly Spiderfang unit within 6".....

Webbed Menace - At the start of the game select up to D3 pieces of terrain which are Infested with Spiders and covered in webbing. Roll a dice for any model which ends it's movement phase within 3" of this terrain, on the roll of a 1 the unit that model belongs to takes a mortal wound. Do not roll for any models that have the Spiderfang keyword. In addition, any models with the Spiderfang keyword can fly while moving across this terrain and can choose to ignore any effects the terrain has.

At the beginning of each players turn, roll a d6. Add 2 to the roll if the battle round is higher than the number Infested terrain pieces. Subtract 2 from the roll if the battle round is lower than the number of Infested terrain pieces. On a 4+ the infestation spreads, you may select another piece of terrain which becomes Infested.

Units

Improve the Arachnarok Flinger to 3+/3+/-1/3. This would put it almost on par with the Gitmob artillery pieces Without any of the special rules or bonuses for being in a Battery.

Grot King on Arachnarok Queen.

• Significantly increased points cost, 400-600.
• Can move over any unit without the Monster keyword as if it had flying. 
• Always has 8 Attacks with it's Chitinous Legs.
• Monstrous fangs always hits on a 3+.
• Now deals D3 +3/+2/+2/+1/+0 wounds with it's monstrous fangs and Spider Venom.
• Has Crown of the Spider God Command Ability which Causes all Spiderfang units within 16"/12"/9"/6"/1" to inflict mortal wounds with their Spider Venom on a 4+ instead of a 6+.

 Trapdoor Spider Riders.

• No ranged ability, similar stats to Spider Riders.
• Patient Hunter Starts game off the board. At the start of your movement phase may be deployed completely within 3" of any Infested piece of terrain and more than 3" from enemy models
• Ambusher If there is an Enemy Unit within 9" of an Infested piece of terrain and this unit is off the board you may deploy it as described in the Patient Hunter rule. The unit is then immediately activated and can pile in up to 6".

 Grot Boss on Trapdoor Spider -

• Has Patient Hunter and Ambusher 
• No command ability.
• Similar Stats to Grot Big Boss.

Grot Shaman on Gigantic Spider

• Has Prayer - On a 4+ a piece of terrain within 12" becomes Infested 

Spiderfang Spiders

• Spiders with no riders. Giant Spider's Fangs weapon.
• Immune to Battle-shock tests while within 12" of a Spiderfang Monster
• Must take a battleshock test every turn if more than 18" away from a Spiderfang Monster 

Add in some battalions and good to go! On a serious note though, might be slightly overpowered

I really like the idea of Webbed Menace. It gives another army a terrain advantage. It makes a lot of sense for Spiderfang to get something like this. I do hope Spiderfang get something in the next year or so. They are a unique army GW has and can make it a fun, creative force to utilize.

Lore-wise, the Spider God has been mentioned many times throughout the lore, and there technically is a character that was in the Grand Alliance Destruction book, so there is a foundation in tact. It just needs to be executed proeprly

[Lucio]

11 hours ago, Infeston said:

Don't say that. :-( For me the short focus on Destruction at the beginning was what pulled me back into AoS. At the moment it seems like GW is not just pulling back from Destruction, but also from AoS as a whole.

Ultimately GW has a lot more choice to balance out, so the energy behind AoS will seem to die down because it's being diluted over a wider range. Also, realistically, AoS has a third of the audience to 40k (based on FB like numbers)

 

As for Destruction, we need a new idea for them, something as radical as the Khadron Overlords. It's a shame Skaven didn't get pushed into Destruction, a Grot/Clan Skyre mix up would be very cool.

[BunkhouseBuster]

20 hours ago, Malakree said:

Loving the double Order battleforce, no destruction  Hoping it's not a sign of times to come.

Now, to be fair, Destruction had two last year, one for Ironjawz and one for Beastclaw Raiders.  The BCR ones did not sell out, and you can actually still find them available on GW's website (at least for the USA).

It might have something to do with those Finecast models though...

[Gorks Pokin' Finger]

4 hours ago, BunkhouseBuster said:

Now, to be fair, Destruction had two last year, one for Ironjawz and one for Beastclaw Raiders.  The BCR ones did not sell out, and you can actually still find them available on GW's website (at least for the USA).

It might have something to do with those Finecast models though...

I think that's the issue for Destruction armies and part of the reason why we haven't seen much army love this year for us: production. Much of the older armies are still Finecast or metal and GW have mostly stopped making those all together. The armies that still have models with metal and finecast are:

Moonclan (anything squig related)
Gitmob Grots (Heroes and siege weapons)
Ogors (Heroes, Gorgers, Firebellies and Maneaters, though the rest of the range is plastic)
Trolls (other than River Trolls and the rare plastic troll from BFBFP starter set, everything is metal)

It's possible (and probable) both Goblin factions are getting completely redone and will get a similar Sylvaneth treatment where old and new models will create a new army. Ogors could easily receive the Bonesplitta//BCR treatment at any time. That's an army that doesn't need much more other than battalions and rules. I have a feeling Firebellies could become a unique army; think of the pacific island tribes or Maori Warriors (Firebellies perform the haka before every battle). Maneaters though need completely new plastic models. Unless you already have them, or have money to burn, each individual metal Maneaster costs 25-30 U dollars.  A troll army is likely years away from becoming a thing, if its even in the pipeline.

So its very possible destruction is currently being worked on, or is finished, but the production time hasn't finished to make them market ready. I hope we do get a new army (or two) this year. 2018 is Death as is this impending Soul Wars campaign that will be this summer. I'm starting to believe 2019 will be Destruction's time to shine

[PlasticCraic]

5 hours ago, BunkhouseBuster said:

Now, to be fair, Destruction had two last year, one for Ironjawz and one for Beastclaw Raiders.  The BCR ones did not sell out, and you can actually still find them available on GW's website (at least for the USA).

It might have something to do with those Finecast models though...

The Beastclaw Raiders one wasn't a Christmas bundle, it was released around August time.  It was a bit of a weird release in that it didn't have equivalent boxes in other armies - it was just a reboxing they brought out when they released the Battletome, and for whatever reason they reboxed it all into a big box. 

It's a standard ongoing release, not a limited release seasonal product - so it can't sell out in the same way.

But yeah, we did get Ironjawz last year.  I can't really see what else they could put into a box this year, other than maybe Bonesplitterz 'n' Spiderfang?  So I think it's more symptomatic of an ongoing lack of love and attention that there is really nothing much to bundle up this year.  It comes out as "Where's our box?" because that's the visible symptom - but imo the real question is "Where's our army that would be worth putting into a box?"

[Sheriff]

@PlasticCraic Yup, hail to the spider queen in 2018!