Will Destruction fit in the new narrative?

[Malakree]

I think perhaps the most important part of destruction is the fact we don't have an allegiance. Seems like a non sequitur given we are talking about a grand alliance, but it's important because it means we can and will ally with any of the other factions if it aligns with the personal goals.

The most notable instance of this is Gorkamorka fighting alongside Sigmar against chaos until he was bored, then attacking Sigmar for the scrap. This puts immense importance on the individual motivations of the destruction factions, Gold and Gluttony for the Ogros, Battle and Fighting for the Orruks. Ironically it makes Destruction the most important faction because we fight against the strongest other faction, if Chaos gets powerful and begins to win destruction will side with Order and bring them down. If Order starts to drive Chaos out of the Mortal Reals Destruction will pile in there and rip down what Order has built.

Importantly this is different from Khorne in the desire and end goal. Khorne wants blood, slaughter and carnage, that's not what destruction wants. Destruction fights for the fight itself, for the loot. Chaos fights for supremacy.

Destruction is the balancing force against all other Alliances.

[Infeston]

14 hours ago, Mohojoe said:

I'm worried Ogors will be forgotten and neglected but I'm also worried they will be reimagined. I have been considering continuing my fluff on ogors for the fact there isn't any...

This is also a big fear that I have. But I would even be happy if they reimagined the Gutbuster Ogors. At the moment I have the fear that Ogors will eventually get the Tomb Kings treatment. I only play Sigmar because I can still play my old Ogor army in the new setting. 

But it makes me sad that GW only focusses on Ironjawz and Orruks. Ogors are the one thing which differs from 40k and makes them a unique faction in the setting. Orruks exist in both systems.

I hope they will still keep Ogors relevant and will also eventually add new Ogor models, which may look different or have different abilities and look more Aos-esque. For example I could imagine Ogors with a Maw instead of their belly. Or maybe they will expand the Firebellies and add a faction full of burning and flaming Ogors.  Also unique faction traits where they regenerate wounds if they do damage, because they eat their enemies.

I could imagine so many things, but I am very sad that Ogors get no support. 

On 10.11.2017 at 10:37 AM, Chris Tomlin said:

Well we are GREEN!

As to @Infeston's post, I don't see why we couldn't see Destruction involved in the campaign. I think the insinuation is that each Grand Alliance gets a Herald and not much more (by way of the campaign releases). I'm not sure we'd expect to see loads of accompanying model releases, they'd likely be tied to a Battletome. I think it's fair to say that none of us would begrudge Death getting some love!

Jeah Death definitely needed this. I am happy for our brothers in neglection that they will finally get something. On the other hand they also released  a lot of Khorne and Stormcast sets. So there is no reason why GW couldn't release a set for both armies or just support both alliances at the same time. 

Would be neat to have a set which is not all about Stormcast, but instead Death and Destruction fighting each other. I would like that. :-)

I know GW is a business and sells Stromcasts, because they are popular. But I still wish they would support Destruction more. I also play no 40k and I never played it. So all the 40k releases don't matter for me in any way. 

[Anaticula]

I agree with most of the thoughts mentioned here. It is sad to see that Destruction is always just some pawn in the big game. Though there is so much potential.. They could have done something cool with Gordrakk, and the BCR lore is actually really cool. Only that it is limited to the stories we can read in their battletome. In my opinion these Alfrostuns should have a major impact on what's going on in the Mortal Realms. I mean hey, you you have armies of giant Ogors riding on even more giant beasts, followed my even more giant magical ice storms. I know the realms are big and all. But shouldn't one of these armies suddenly appear in front of a Free City?

 

[Ollie Grimwood]

They have started something cool with Gordrakk in Fury of Gork.  The whole thing is an ongoing narrative we’ve had the Realmgate Wars which was primarily Stromcast/Sylvaneth/chaos now things are moving onto Season of War Firestorm and beyond we should be seeing more of the other factions  

We’ve got an ongoing Narrative through Path to Glory and Firestorm with the Gutstompas there’s definitely Orruk narrative pieces, certainly enough to establish them in the setting. Yes the Realmgate Wars isn’t about Destruction as such but everything doesn’t have to be about them. 

[BunkhouseBuster]

On 11/11/2017 at 5:54 AM, Malakree said:

I think perhaps the most important part of destruction is the fact we don't have an allegiance. Seems like a non sequitur given we are talking about a grand alliance, but it's important because it means we can and will ally with any of the other factions if it aligns with the personal goals.

The most notable instance of this is Gorkamorka fighting alongside Sigmar against chaos until he was bored, then attacking Sigmar for the scrap. This puts immense importance on the individual motivations of the destruction factions, Gold and Gluttony for the Ogros, Battle and Fighting for the Orruks. Ironically it makes Destruction the most important faction because we fight against the strongest other faction, if Chaos gets powerful and begins to win destruction will side with Order and bring them down. If Order starts to drive Chaos out of the Mortal Reals Destruction will pile in there and rip down what Order has built.

Importantly this is different from Khorne in the desire and end goal. Khorne wants blood, slaughter and carnage, that's not what destruction wants. Destruction fights for the fight itself, for the loot. Chaos fights for supremacy.

Destruction is the balancing force against all other Alliances.

I didn't think of it like that, but that ties directly into my own personal fluff so perfectly as to blow my mind.  Awesome point!

[PlasticCraic]

20 hours ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

They have started something cool with Gordrakk in Fury of Gork.  

Not sure I agree with that...in the whole Realmgate Wars, there is one book that would appear to be Destruction focused.  Given the name, and the fact that Gordrakk is on the cover, it's the first one I read in the series - I was drawn straight to it, expecting a Destruction story.  I was disappointed.  It boils down to Stormcast vs Chaos (yet) again, with the Orruks being manipulated into doing some heavy lifting for Golden Balls. 

If that's as close as we get to the narrative - and I fear it is - then we are going to have to accept that we are a very peripheral presence in the Mortal Realms.

[Ollie Grimwood]

6 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Not sure I agree with that...in the whole Realmgate Wars, there is one book that would appear to be Destruction focused.  Given the name, and the fact that Gordrakk is on the cover, it's the first one I read in the series - I was drawn straight to it, expecting a Destruction story.  I was disappointed.  It boils down to Stormcast vs Chaos (yet) again, with the Orruks being manipulated into doing some heavy lifting for Golden Balls. 

If that's as close as we get to the narrative - and I fear it is - then we are going to have to accept that we are a very peripheral presence in the Mortal Realms.

Haha at last someone else who’s read it.  The Realmgate Wars are very much the Stormcasts’ party there’s plenty of other factions who don’t get any mention at all. The Destruction and Death cameos are there to show that they are singing from their own song sheet rather than just doing what Sigmar or the Chaos Gods want.   

I don’t see it that Gordrakk was manipulated into anything by the Stormcast, he enters into a temporary alliance with them as it will help with his objectives. Zephacleas makes the point of reasoning with them in a way they’d respect in doing so shows they are rational in their own way with a culture of their own. They can be reasoned with and worked with.  They don’t just happen to turn up and start fighting the Chaos by chance and of course the Stromcast do fight side by side with them rather than just mopping up what’s left. 

Gordrakk considers and plans his actions he doesn’t just react to circumstances and he chooses to act in a way that will advance his position through his own choices rather than through chance. 

Consider Stabbajack’s response on being captured.  It’s really quite reasoned. But as I said initially it’s a start the book shows there’s much more to Orruks in AoS. Of course they are still Orcs at the core they they are much more nuanced than they were in WFB.   I wouldn’t want them to lose that core Orciness though I like that they not human, if they just became a Greenskinned Human barbarian/tribal faction I’d be very disappointed (I’m looking at you WoW) they also don’t need to be some sort of comic relief. 

I like what we were showed and I hope we’ll get more. One thing I’ve noticed from the narrative events I’ve been too this year is that the Green part of the Destruction faction is very popular. 

[Infeston]

12 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

I like what we were showed and I hope we’ll get more. One thing I’ve noticed from the narrative events I’ve been too this year is that the Green part of the Destruction faction is very popular. 

I still hope that GW isn't going to make Destruction only about Green, Green and even more green and only create equivalents to 40k for AoS. I still hope they will also add something to the other factions like Troggoths, Gargants or Ogors. This would make Destruction more diverse.

If I wanna play Orruks in power armor I can also play 40k. I also think that for Destruction Ironjawz got enough at the moment. I would be happy about a non-green faction update. But I would also accept a Grots update with new models. 

I just wish for more interesting models for our beloved Destruction. Sky Grots would also be really cool. 

[Ollie Grimwood]

1 hour ago, Infeston said:

I still hope that GW isn't going to make Destruction only about Green, Green and even more green and only create equivalents to 40k for AoS. I still hope they will also add something to the other factions like Troggoths, Gargants or Ogors. This would make Destruction more diverse.

If I wanna play Orruks in power armor I can also play 40k. I also think that for Destruction Ironjawz got enough at the moment. I would be happy about a non-green faction update. But I would also accept a Grots update with new models. 

I just wish for more interesting models for our beloved Destruction. Sky Grots would also be really cool. 

Yep I’d love to see well aspects of Destruction expanded/added too. I really enjoy the BCR narrative. I’d like to see a full return of the Fimir as they are a fairly unique GW faction. Of course their background may need a little tweak to avoid internet wrath. 

Sky Grots, while still being Green, seems to me like the easiest money GW could make (short of true scale Space Marines ?) it needs to happen. I’ve seem some great Orruk Sky Pirates on the t’interweb it really works. 

[Warboss Gorbolg]

1 hour ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

One thing I’ve noticed from the narrative events I’ve been too this year is that the Green part of the Destruction faction is very popular. 

Orcs and Goblins were consistently reported as one of the most popular armies in WHFB.  Rumor had it that it was why they were usually one of the first armies to get updated with each new edition.  I think Destruction will also be quite popular as we get more battletomes and some new models.

l also think that Ogors in general compliment the rest of Destruction well and will continue to get love.  However I imagine that Gutbusters are probably farther back in the queue.  I suspect that orruks and Grots will always be the core of Destruction.  We really need some Grots to make an appearance already!

@Chris Tomlin brought up the Destruction herald that I had forgotten about.  Ironjawz have been out and featured for a while now.  How cool would it be for the herald to be something else?!  I can get excited about something from just about any faction.  Spellcaster or melee, Orruk or grot, Ogor or Troggoth?  Hopefully they really shake things up and we don't just get Wurrzag 2.0. 

In addition to Fury of Gork, Mortarch of Night also features some Ironjawz.  Korruk the Great Red is a megaboss that also demonstrates rational thought and motivations.  My impression is that in general, Ironjawz leaders have been portrayed as relatively intelligent, if a little blunt and unimaginative.  I think this bodes well for the characterization of Destruction as a whole, especially when considering that IJ seem more Gork than Mork.  I'm hopeful that there will be room for many Skarsniks and Gorbads in AOS, where these crafty warbosses are the rule vice the exception like they were in WHFB.

Great thread.  I love to see how many others are really interested in the story as well.

[Sheriff]

The factions where a hero would be welcome would be gitmob who don't have a general other than a shaman, or troggoths and gargants who have nothing at all. 

I suspect the unique characters in the lore for the other grot factions will become a thing in a seperate release, or in the battletomes when they happen (e.g. Spittlegit). 

Ironjaws already have a load of characters and heroes so I hope its not them, but would bet money that ironjaws continue to be the only serious destruction army, and get supported etc., and would bet even more money that the new hero falls inside the Stoneclaw allegiance at least. 

[Malakree]

6 hours ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

I’d like to see a full return of the Fimir as they are a fairly unique GW faction. Of course their background may need a little tweak to avoid internet wrath. 

Evil vile  monsters are evil and vile. To be honest I don't see the problem with it, it's part of what makes them unique as opposed to just another form of ogor. There's something really annoying about a bunch of people who don't play the hobby complaining about aspects of it.

Hungering Mercenaries
In regard to the factions of destruction I feel like the disparate ogroids (Aleguzzlars, Maneaters and Firebellies) should be fused into one faction named something like "Hungering Mercenaries" which are available to all destruction factions. This would be a slight buff to the various Green parts of destruction, ally options, while tidying up the destruction faction lists a little. Importantly this would then allow for a cool battalion like.

Mercenary Battalion - 200 points

• A leader of any destruction faction except "Hungering Mercenaries"
• 0-2 Firebellies
• 0-3 Unit of Maneaters
• 1-4 Aleguzzlar Gargants
• The battalion gains the Faction keyword of the Leader chosen and benefits from allegiance abilities as if it were of that faction. They cannot have artefacts.
• The battalion counts as 1 battleline.

Greenskin Horde
Roll Greenskinz and Gitmob Grots into one faction again "Greenskin Horde" This gives both of them way more options, gitmob gains the monster and leader options they don't have and gives the Greenskinz unique access to the Artillery which is currently limited for allies slot. Gitmob becomes distinct from moonclan and Greenskinz become distinct from Bonesplitterz and Ironjawz where both are currently lesser versions of the others. They trade raw power for a level of versatility and variety which the others lack. As a final added bonus Snotlings can now trigger their +1 for Orruks within their allegiance rather than requiring allies. Again gives the option for some cool battalions like a

• Chariot battalion with 1-3 orruk charriots and 2-5 goblin chariots,
• "Green Tide" battalion, an Orruk Warboss on wyvern, 1 Orruk Great Shaman, 1 Grot Shaman, a max size unit of orruks, 2-3 units of grots, 3-5 units of snotlings.

Troggoths and Fimir
Roll Troggoths and Fimir into one allegiance "Felwater Mennace".

• Fimir noble becomes a leader. 80 points points range.
• Add the fimir Matriarch back in. 100 points range
• Basilisk added to the faction and "Fimir Noble on Basilisk" becomes an option
• Merwyrm added to the faction and "Fimir Matriarch on Merwyrm" becomes an option.
• Fimir Warriors and Troggoths become battleline for the allegiance.
• Greenskin Horde, Hungering Mercenaries and Gutbusters as allies options.

This would add a third "faction" to the destruction roster, Ogors, Greenskinz and Monstrosities. It would also give a boost to some of the less used models/factions with them being more widely available and having more options!

[bonzai]

Keep in mind to that GW teased the new Herald of Nagash model, but stated that each faction would be getting one and that they would be tying in to a campaign in 2018. So we will be getting some kind of love.  

 

[PlasticCraic]

4 hours ago, Malakree said:

Evil vile  monsters are evil and vile. To be honest I don't see the problem with it, it's part of what makes them unique as opposed to just another form of ogor. There's something really annoying about a bunch of people who don't play the hobby complaining about aspects of it.
 

You do know how they reproduced in the old lore?  I don't think you have to be a prude to consider that inappropriate.  The creator of the faction has said that he himself regrets the inclusion of that aspect.

[Malakree]

40 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

You do know how they reproduced in the old lore?  I don't think you have to be a prude to consider that inappropriate.  The creator of the faction has said that he himself regrets the inclusion of that aspect.

I am aware yes. While I'm not suggesting that it's thrown around in everybody's faces I'm against deliberate retconning to remove it. It's an aspect of what makes the fimir so horrific and vile.

[PlasticCraic]

12 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I am aware yes. While I'm not suggesting that it's thrown around in everybody's faces I'm against deliberate retconning to remove it. It's an aspect of what makes the fimir so horrific and vile.

Not sure I agree with that, I wouldn't even consider it retconning personally - the Old World is gone, it would be entirely new lore. 

And there's no way you can write that in there in my opinion.  

[ledha]

for me, the destruction problem is that nearly all the armies are green-skin related, while chaos and order have much more variety.

Savages elfes or elemental armies would be quite cool as forces of destruction

[Ollie Grimwood]

I don’t care how savage the Aelves are they can f**k off 

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

I don’t care how savage the Aelves are they can f**k off 

Wow the fangs! Don't tell an orruk that he might need to get along with an aelve.

2 hours ago, ledha said:

elemental armies would be quite cool as forces of destruction

I LOVE the idea of an "elemental" faction in destruction though. 

The reason I say faction, not alleigance, is because we could easily have several smaller elemental allegiances which are each others allies and form the elemental part. The same way there is a greenskinz faction and an ogor faction atm.

Split the troggoths into the various elemental alleigances, rather than what I suggested before. The fimir and felwater troggoths then become the "Felwater Menace" along with the basilisk and merwyrm.

Then you could have another more "traditional troll" type alleigance.

[Ollie Grimwood]

? 

I do like the idea of an Elemental faction however. They’ve kind of touched on it with the BCR yethees  and I felt it worked really well.  

[Ar-Pharazôn]

1 hour ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

? 

I do like the idea of an Elemental faction however. They’ve kind of touched on it with the BCR yethees  and I felt it worked really well.  

The Monstrous Arcanum has Incarnate Elementals of Fire and Beasts, both having the DESTRUCTION and DAEMON keywords. Destruction daemons representing the primal, untamed magic of the realms would be a nice faction. 

[Sheriff]

10 minutes ago, Ar-Pharazôn said:

The Monstrous Arcanum has Incarnate Elementals of Fire and Beasts, both having the DESTRUCTION and DAEMON keywords. Destruction daemons representing the primal, untamed magic of the realms would be a nice faction. 

I think beasties of this type are also alluded to in the realm of beasts or whatever its called. Probably left wiggle-room to add more in the future. 

[Infeston]

I like the suggestions for allegiances, new factions etc. a lot. Would be great if GW could read this and think about it. :-D

I would also welcome a completely new faction to Destruction. Maybe also a completely new race. But I still like to see new ogors.

I seriously hope the new hero won't be an Ironjawz Orruk. Most of the heralds we've seen were part of factions which aren't the centrepieces of the allegiances, so there is hope.

A sky grot captain in some kind of mini ship or zeppelin would be great, like Brokk Grungson. Or an ogor hero with some kind of elemental enhancement (like burning shoulders, or his body consisting of earth for example). I think for me the best thing would be a Troggoth hero. Because this is what I would find the most interesting. A hero similar to Throgg: http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Throgg. I think Throgg is also one of the coolest troll miniatures I have ever seen. Would be really cool to get a whole troll faction with a troll leader similar to Throgg (but uncorrupted by Chaos).

 

There are so many possibilites. Sadly Destruction gets often ignored and when they are focussed it is often only about greenskins.

[bonzai]

2 hours ago, Infeston said:

I like the suggestions for allegiances, new factions etc. a lot. Would be great if GW could read this and think about it. :-D

I would also welcome a completely new faction to Destruction. Maybe also a completely new race. But I still like to see new ogors.

I seriously hope the new hero won't be an Ironjawz Orruk. Most of the heralds we've seen were part of factions which aren't the centrepieces of the allegiances, so there is hope.

A sky grot captain in some kind of mini ship or zeppelin would be great, like Brokk Grungson. Or an ogor hero with some kind of elemental enhancement (like burning shoulders, or his body consisting of earth for example). I think for me the best thing would be a Troggoth hero. Because this is what I would find the most interesting. A hero similar to Throgg: http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Throgg. I think Throgg is also one of the coolest troll miniatures I have ever seen. Would be really cool to get a whole troll faction with a troll leader similar to Throgg (but uncorrupted by Chaos).

 

There are so many possibilites. Sadly Destruction gets often ignored and when they are focussed it is often only about greenskins.

I could certainly see a Grot being the Herald of Mork.... with a very tall and impressive hat, lol.

Throgg was an amazing model. I can only hope there will be a line of Troggoth kings in the future. 

One thing I've noticed is destruction races seem to like to come in 3's. Three types of Orruks, 3 types of Grots, 3 types of Troggoths. It wouldn't surprise me if they come out with a 3rd flavor of Igor, man eaters and firebelly's not withstanding. Still it's unfair to say that it has all been about orcs. 1/3 of the destruction releases were Ogors so far. To be fair, I think we should see a grot army next. I would think Moonclan has the range to be an easy release.

[Infeston]

21 minutes ago, bonzai said:

I could certainly see a Grot being the Herald of Mork.... with a very tall and impressive hat, lol.

Throgg was an amazing model. I can only hope there will be a line of Troggoth kings in the future. 

One thing I've noticed is destruction races seem to like to come in 3's. Three types of Orruks, 3 types of Grots, 3 types of Troggoths. It wouldn't surprise me if they come out with a 3rd flavor of Igor, man eaters and firebelly's not withstanding. Still it's unfair to say that it has all been about orcs. 1/3 of the destruction releases were Ogors so far. To be fair, I think we should see a grot army next. I would think Moonclan has the range to be an easy release.

Jeah. In this way you are right. But the Ogor "releases" were also all just old models. As well as the Grots. So Orruks are the only Destruction faction which really got new models. To be honest, I don't mind if the next Destruction release would be Ogors or Grots as long as its not Orruks. I think a completely new faction for Destruction would also be exciting. 

Also the Orruk factions are the only Destruction factions which play a major role in the story (even though they only play a minor role compared to Stormcast and Chaos). You don't hear about some Ogors or Grots interfering in serious business or being an equal encounter to the Stormcast boys.

I also want something that differs from 40k. For me it seems like they try the same formular which worked for 40k with AoS, so that for every faction in 40k there is a faction equivalent in AoS. I wish for something that differs from 40k like Kharadron Overlords for example. There is no 40k equivalent for the Kharadron Overlords (I think Squats don't count). Also there are no Ogors, or Troggoth in 40k (there are some Ogors, but not a whole faction). I think GW should improve on things which differ from 40k rather than establishing equivalents for AoS.

But this is also just my opinion. Some people may see things a little different.