Will Destruction fit in the new narrative?

[Infeston]

Hey everyone,

People keep talking about the new narrative coming maybe next year and that it will be all about Death reclaiming areas etc. 

While I feel glad that Death will now get some focus I am also scared that our beloved Destruction will not play a big part in the new setting. I have the feeling that we may only get one Destruction hero (which I believe almost certainly to be an Orruk) as one of the Heralds and that will be it.

I think every Grand Alliance has a place in a death-themed narrative but Destruction. I don't know if they would fit in and which role they propably would play. What do you think? Is there a place for Destruction in this narrative?

Im starting a little bit to lose interest if there isn't anything happening for Destruction at the moment. I would also be happy if there would be some more detailed information about Destruction lorewise. The current lore about Orruks is always "There is this big guy and everyone follows him, because he is strong...The end". But I don't find the stories to be very interesting. There aren't any mayor rivalries or stories about Destruction. You don't know how for example Gordrakk got the strongest Orruk. It just says: Gordrakk is the biggest and baddest because he killed things. Nothing about how he fought his way up etc. 

I find the story aspect of Destruction very boring. But I did like the story about the Beastclaw riders and that they were hunted by the Everwinter. But that was only in the battletome. After that you don't hear from them in the main story. I would find it very exciting to see a story where a sudden giant snowstorm approaches and some guys have to fight through it.

Narratively I feel like  third wheel as a Destruction player, because we have no real or exciting lore. It often seems that we have no place in the main story, because the only major characters only appear in the battletomes, except Gordrakk. But I also think he didn't play a major role in the All-Gates other than just smashing some stuff and being a distraction.

For me it feels like they are the monsters which you fight in a Dungeon RPG. They come from somewhere and then gets slain, but have no real purpose or motivations other than fighting with the "Heros". I know that its often a lot what Orruks are about, but I think there would still be a place for an interesting narrative.

[PlasticCraic]

Interesting post - but what makes you think Destruction can't interact meaningfully with Death?  

[Infeston]

2 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Interesting post - but what makes you think Destruction can't interact meaningfully with Death?  

No thats not what I wanted to say. But maybe Destruction will only play a side role. And that they won't get any new models soon. But maybe Im wrong. :-)

[PlasticCraic]

Death definitely need some love so I can see us continuing to get forgotten about while that happens, purely because we won't be their focus.  I thought you meant that narratively it wouldn't work for us to be involved either, so I was interested to hear why. 

But anyway I fear you're probably right...the whole Order 'n' Chaos love is starting to get pretty tedious.  We got such a wafer thin slice of GH17, so does that mean Greenskinz (and  Grots, and Ogors) are getting a Battletome in the near future instead?  I wouldn't hold your breath!

 

[svnvaldez]

I too think we will be waiting a bit for some new releases. You could do what I am and hold off on new purchases and paint your collection.

Pick up ironjawz if you don't have the full set, all beautiful models.

I grabbed primaris space marines to paint and dabble with 40k till destro gets some new life in terms of rules and models.

[PlasticCraic]

12 minutes ago, svnvaldez said:

I too think we will be waiting a bit for some new releases. You could do what I am and hold off on new purchases and paint your collection.

Pick up ironjawz if you don't have the full set, all beautiful models.

I grabbed primaris space marines to paint and dabble with 40k till destro gets some new life in terms of rules and models.

Spot on mate, I'm doing exactly the same. 

There are a lot of Destruction players at our group currently buying into new Chaos and Order armies, but I'm:

- Finally painting up the Ironjawz I bought last year and having fun with them

- Holding fire on anything new in AOS until a new Grots release (or similar)

- And also have the Tyranids Codes on pre order for a dabble in the Realm of 40K

So I think you are exactly right, there are plenty of ways to enjoy engaging in the hobby while you wait for our turn in the cycle to come round again.  Just gotta keep your chin up, and keep the Green Flag flying high!

Also my target at larger events is placing Top 3 in Destruction, rather than focussing on my overall placing.

[Vasshpit]

Didn't Azhag the Slaughter have a crown of Nagash or something like that?...

that could play into it.

[Ollie Grimwood]

I was musing to myself that the next campaign would do well to be Destruction vs Death. There is an obvious conflict in that Death strives for a situation of undying permanence and Destructuon wants endless War and shenanigans, it’s pretty close to the old Law vs Chaos paradigm. 

You could easily sneak in the Order factions as Sigmar tries to prevent chaos capitalising on the between the old allies and chaos trying to divide and conquer (just so the poster boys don’t get left out)

Pretty sensible as going on the Narrative events I’ve been to this year Destruction, all things green in particular, are very popular. 

 

[Sheriff]

Destruction is the Luigi of AOS it seems, turning up when an extra faction is needed, but not really needed in the story. 

[Chris Tomlin]

12 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Destruction is the Luigi of AOS it seems, turning up when an extra faction is needed, but not really needed in the story. 

Well we are GREEN!

As to @Infeston's post, I don't see why we couldn't see Destruction involved in the campaign. I think the insinuation is that each Grand Alliance gets a Herald and not much more (by way of the campaign releases). I'm not sure we'd expect to see loads of accompanying model releases, they'd likely be tied to a Battletome. I think it's fair to say that none of us would begrudge Death getting some love!

[heywoah_twitch]

Death is in dire need of at least two battletomes and some new model lines, they can have this one. Surely we'll have some fun story inclusions but the way it's shaping up (even making a new grimdark AoS logo) death gets to be the star of the show this time!

So who's taking bets on Nagash's Hollowcast Eternals?

[stratigo]

Narratively destruction is in a rough place. GW hasn't really given orcs the ball for ages. I mean there was the Beast Arises series I suppose, but books series stuck in the dim history is probably the best you'll get for orks driving a story.

 

The Greenskins are great representing the forces of barbarism on the edges of civilization, always a threat. But you know who else is great at that? Khorne. So all the places you could see destruction factions as the antagonists of a plot, you sub in khorne instead. Orcs get to play second fiddle to chaos. And will probably continue to do so for the foreseeable future. For the simple reason that chaos sells more.

 

As for ogres, I' not entirely sure GW remembers they exist at times.

[BunkhouseBuster]

From a Narrative point, the problem with Destruction is that it can only do so much on the surface.  I mean, is there anything to the forces of Destruction that is them trying to build anything?  Or are they doing anything productive?  I seem to recall that it's all "CRUSH!  KILL!  DESTROY!" for Orcs and Goblins and "OM-NOM-NOM" for Ogres, and that seems to apply to the majority of the factions.  Granted, I have only read the GA: Destruction and Ironjawz books, but I've not seen much else when it comes to the whole Grand Alliance.

What Destruction needs is some nuance, something to help justify the rampant violence and non-stop damage that Destruction causes.  Why does the faction do what it does?  What had lead Gorka-Morka to want nothing but destruction?  I recall that Beastclaw Raiders are trying to outrun the eternal winter and grow crops, or something, which is probably the most we have for a Destruction faction.

To me, Destruction is missing something.  Granted, AoS is only a few years old, and is needing some time to grow on its own, but we are seeing such growth in other factions.  Sigmar abandoned the Mortal Realms, felt bad about it, and is trying to redeem himself now and fight Chaos back.  Nagash is power hungry, and feels bitter that Sigmar is taking souls away from his dominion (and that may be leading into the next wave of AoS story and model updates).  The gods of AoS are not entirely trusting of each other after their former alliances and betrayals, which leads to conflict.  And there are plenty of examples in the stories of what the setting of AoS is capable of in creating characters.  So, what is it that Destruction needs?

Destruction needs the WHY of what they are doing.  They like to fight, yes?  Well, what would lead to that, or be a product of that nature to fight all the time?  Barbarians on the edge of society, existing as this ever-present threat to life and society works when the worldview is restricted to the society being threatened.  But when showing the perspectives of all the characters involved, the barbarians need to have a motivation for what they are doing.  Maybe they are starving and need food and resources for their people.  Perhaps they remember some transgression against their people from long ago by the society they are attacking.  Or they are being lead on a conquest by a charismatic leader seeking to make an empire, gain personal glory, acquire loot and riches, or assimilate new peoples into their culture.  But there is always a REASON for it.

I won't jump too far into it here, but suffice it to say that I have figured out some decent characterization for my personal fluff of  my Ironjawz army.  Basically, my Megaboss will only fight against large enemy forces, because he wants to always have something to fight.  After having a vision of a lone, large, and powerful Megaboss in an empty vastness, he sees that fighting everything will end with one big Orruk, alone with no one to fight.  From that, he is motivated to only fight bigger and more powerful enemies, even going so far as to protect smaller factions and ally with them, so that they might grow into a larger force to fight later.  It's no fun fighting something that can't fight back, so he lets them grow into a bigger threat until such a time as they become a good combatant.  Except that there are some other Bosses in his Waaagh that don't like this, which leads to internal strife within the Waaagh's leadership.

To me, that's the direction to go in.  When everyone in a group is doing one thing, the interesting ones are those doing something else, which leads to conflict, which leads to a good story.  I am eager to see how GW moves forward in AoS, and I hope I get a chance to catch up and stay on top of it someday...

[Galas]

We as Destruction are the NPC's of the setting. The same goes for Tyranids/Orks in W40K or Greenskins and Ogres in Old Fantasy.

 

We are always the "inmediate treat", the reason for the heroes to come to the place where the story takes place, just to be later revealed that in fact the TRUE VILLAIN is Chaos/Necromancers/Skavens/Etc... 

Personally I have no problems with that, GW autors can't write a good Ogre/Orc/Ork enemy that feels threating without making them "Is a Orc... but it doesn't behave like a Orc, he's actually intelligent!" like they did in "The Beast"saga for 40k. 

Thats why I always loved Skaarnski. He feels like a Villain, a proper one. Grim'gor never achieved that. An Azhag achieved it, by having a crown that did make him a behave as a Non-Orc.

Personally thats why my mixed destruction army (Goblins, Orruks and Ogres) is based in the Warcraft Orc Horde of the First and Second War. They are a Horde of Destruction ,yes. But they are trying to achieve something. They aren't just destroying everything. They are conquering, to build their own Empire. A twisted version of a "Order" Empire, based in brutal and constant murder. 

The final desire of my Ogre Khan is to lay siege to Azyr and steal from Sigmar his magic to create Stormcast. He wants his own Stormcast Orruks and Ogres, so that way his warriors can fight forever even after being defeated, becoming more and more powerfull, without limit, so they, one day, can win the final battle: To Kill Khorne.

[meet.the.doctor]

Well I think that Bonesplitterz in that manner got their lore developed quite nicely. You know how they become savage, follow the spirit way and what is the purpose of their eternal hunt - Da Beast Spirits!
And they flow with that recently quite well... Starting in Bonesplitterz Book, continueing in Path To Glory (Gulgaz backstory) and Firestorm (Gulgaz Story continued - Gulgaz Stoneklaw Gutstompas).
So whose bones will this HUNT go afternext? Whose are Dem Biggest Bonez and Da Baddest Spirit you could get? Let's hunt NAGASH, Boyz! SPLIT HIS BONEZ!!! Oh yes - they fit the Narrative next year

[Ollie Grimwood]

I don’t agree that GWs writers can’t wrtie Orruks as characters they do a good job in Fury of Gork also AoS Orruks aren’t as one dimensional as WFB ones they can be reasoned with and do have a culture, there’s right and wrong ways of doing things with them for a start. Don’t forget they have and continue to ally with other Grand Alliances. They do this as a conscious decision it’s not merely a case in being tricked into doing so or just happening to be fighting against someone helpful. 

They aren’t humans however so their motivation and responses won’t be the same this shouldn’t be mistaken as them not existing. There’s plenty of narrative dircetuon for Destruction in AoS and lot just as antagonists but as full blown protagonists, the preconception that they are the same as WFB Orc needs to be left behind. 

An example of this can be seen in the Ironjawz book. Ardboys wear armour they forge by themselves. This shows a far greater level of skill and craft than WFB Black orcs who had to get it off the Chaos Dwarfs or loot it off fallen enemies. 

[bonzai]

I agree with many of the others, in that Death needs it's time in the sun. Nagash is in hiding in his own plain, when he is supposed to be the head of one of 4 major powers. The only real presence they have outside their realms are flesh eater cults, which makes sense as they infect human populations and thrive on the anarchy of war. They are a nice default army to use as a token presence. Now if Nagash is on the rise and getting his pane back, other death factions can now shine. Deathrattle seems like it will be the most likely canidate.

I also think that they will heavily tie in with Shadespire, and the factions represented. For Destruction that means Ironjaws have a presence. Bonesplitterz tend to pop up randomly, and a presence there wouldn't be amiss. I could see them fighting over a dragon graveyard or something.  I would love for the next destruction expansion to be a grot army of some sort. Spiderfang grots could conceivably fit the spooky death aeshetic and find a place in the narrative as well. Maybe a group lurking in a forest of bone or soomething....

[Warboss Gorbolg]

I expect that Destruction will broadly continue to occupy the "destructive force of nature" role in the setting, much like in Warhammer Fantasy.  Although this has the previous mentioned drawbacks, it also is a feature of the Alliance. The forces of Destruction are ubiquitous, providing hobbyists maximum flexibility. In my opinion, a new Destruction faction book can drop at any time and fit into the larger narrative seamlessly.  

If you like the story fed to you, I think Destruction will continue to disappoint.  If you like to write your own, Destruction is the most flexible IMO.  GORKAMORKA is much less active and directive than the major powers of the other Allegiances  (Sigmar, Alariel, Chaos gods, Nagash...).  We carve our own destinies.

 

[Malakree]

IMO Gorkamorka isn't about destruction, it's about combat. It's about getting the good fight and winning it.
Gork is the raw primal combat aspect of it, he doesn't care about killing like say khorne he's about the battle itself.
Mork is then the winning part, about own smarting your opponent and being more cunning, using their own hubris against them.

That's really the destruction narrative in my eyes.

[bonzai]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

IMO Gorkamorka isn't about destruction, it's about combat. It's about getting the good fight and winning it.
Gork is the raw primal combat aspect of it, he doesn't care about killing like say khorne he's about the battle itself.
Mork is then the winning part, about own smarting your opponent and being more cunning, using their own hubris against them.

That's really the destruction narrative in my eyes.

Which brings up the question, has there been anything published about what Gork and Mork  are up to? I know Sigmar sent Stormcast to find Gork, but found Gordrak instead. It would be nice to know. Heck, maybe one day we will even get a pair of models.

[stratigo]

Also, we should boycott the trademarkable names. They're orcs durnit.

 

 

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

1 hour ago, bonzai said:

Which brings up the question, has there been anything published about what Gork and Mork  are up to? I know Sigmar sent Stormcast to find Gork, but found Gordrak instead. It would be nice to know. Heck, maybe one day we will even get a pair of models.

If anything's to go by, they are training Godrakk at the moment. Teaching him how to be a successful warlord. If Gorkamorka contains Grimgor that would be an interesting dinamic.

 

47 minutes ago, stratigo said:

Also, we should boycott the trademarkable names. They're orcs durnit

We don't care about your pet peeves.

[Mohojoe]

I'm worried Ogors will be forgotten and neglected but I'm also worried they will be reimagined. I have been considering continuing my fluff on ogors for the fact there isn't any...

[Davariel]

I don't know, I think Destruction is probably the easiest faction to fit in to any narrative - but that's both a blessing and a curse.

It's incredibly easy to fit them into any story with a handwave of they just happened to be there and started fighting, they were on a WAAAGH, Chief X wanted to prove he's the best, or so on.

On the other hand... it's much more difficult to give them nuanced involvement in a narrative because most of the time their motivation does seem to boil down to the above.

Partly I think that's because Destruction, unlike any other GA, actually seems happy with the status quo - loads of fighting between everyone all the time! Who among them would want to change that? Why? Answering those questions would be a good starting point for developing them IMO.

[Karchev23]

Imo destruction will continue where orcs and goblins left off

 They were the comic relief in 8th, still are in 40k. Orruks& grots are the dark humour in an otherwise dark place amd i dont see why that cant be the case in the new story arc