Next Death Battletome

[NinjaDetective]

Hi

I've been thinking for the next death Battletome deathrattle seems to be a lock,but would anyone else like tosee themn do one similar to the tzeench tome, so have deadwalkers, deathrattle and deathmages all combined?

Could then have seperate command tables and artifact and such like in the tzeench tome depending on who your general is, this would also get the deathmages and deadwalkers a battketone since Im not sure they could justify one on there own.

[xspire]

Unfortunately none of the factions within GA: Death seem to be able to support a battletome without extensive reworks and new models / units. I wouldn't want them to start combining things that don't make sense together just to get a book out of it.

I can't see a deathrattle tome coming out, deathrattle currently has 4 choices, the amount of work needed to build that into a battletome is huge. Combining deathrattle + deadwalkers would be redundant, that's essentially what GA: Death is designed for anyway. There's lots of rumours about a deathrattle tome but it doesn't actually make any sense unless it's going to be a huge release, and if it is you have to think what could they possibly add? If you look at all the other battletomes they're based around selling models - most have a £20-30 box set of 3-5 models that are very strong and almost a requirement. They have big hero kits that cost around £30+. Currently Deathrattle has 1 hero choice and is based around cheap horde box sets. Not ideal for selling models, so unless something really major is coming for deathrattle I can't see them getting a battletome.

Soulblight has a few more choices, but it would need new models for existing units - I think GW would prefer to design and release new units and models as that is what will draw new players. New models for Fell bats, bats swarms etc. will only appease existing Soulblight players, not bring new players to death / soulblight and sell models. So I would be surprised if they get a battletome.

Nighthaunt seem like they could support a battletome with the least work, possibly a few new additions. However, Nighthaunt are working quite well straight out of GH17 already so I don't think GW would invest in creating a tome for them when they don't have any serious problems.

Deadwalkers fall into a similar situation to deathrattle, and they work fine as GA: Death.

Deathlords... this has potential to be built out but I can't imagine it being done, the amount of new units needed to make it into a battletome doesn't seem to fit in with GW's plans. If they were doing a revamp / release on this scale I feel like they would be teasing it, and teasing it really far in advance to drum up people's attention.

Realistically they haven't said they're doing a tome for Death in 2018. They said they're doing some death releases, so far that's been the Sepuchral Guard for Shadespire, usable in AoS, and next year the Malign Portents release which will have a herald for death - as well as every other alliance. A lot of people have misread the release information for Malign Portents, it's not a 'death' release, it's a narrative / matched play release for every alliance, with models for every alliance, and these people are generating rumours left, right and centre.

Maybe there will be some new information over the next couple of weeks, but we'll see. It you follow the warhammer-community page they have been pushing a lot of Death painting guides over the last few weeks so maybe that is an indicator for something but it could also just be part of their normal painting guide schedule.

 

[bsharitt]

I've arranged my guesses in order or least to most likely.

Flesh Eater Courts - They already have a battle tome and got got new traits, abilities and artifacts in GHB2017 to make up for it being "old style".

Deadwalkers - Right now they have just a few models that are mostly left overs and I think they mostly still existing to add some extra models GA Death.

Deathmages - The death version the Collegiate Arcane, a support only faction that doesn't make any more sense to exist alone than the Ironweld Arsenal.

Soulblight - A limited faction, but also with potential, though having a lot of resin probably doesn't help. They also got abilities in GHB 2017, so probably also not a tome contender.

Nighthaunt - A limited faction with some potential for good expansion and will be getting at least one unit next year, but got allegiance stuff in GHB2017, so probably no tome soon.

Deathlords - Again, a faction that is not really designed to stand alone, but there's an Everchosen tome, so it's likely. I'd really like to see Nagash get all the Death faction keywords like Archeon has for most of Chaos and maybe even give the Mortarchs some other keywords for the factions they're most close to. I wouldn't be surprised to see them get a battletome, just for some leadership back story.

Deathrattle - To be honest, these guys are about as viable as a stand alone allegiance worth of a battletome as Nighthaunt and Soulblight, but they jump to the head of the pack because they've gotten some love in Shadespire and because they didn't get anything in GHB2017.

 

That's my answer assuming all the factions stay the same, but I wouldn't be surprised if they mix things up. I think FEC, Nighthaunt, and Soulblight stay where they are. They solid factions, even if a bit small. But I could see Deathrattle, Deathlords, maybe Deathmages, but only distantly deadwalkers get mixed into a new "main" hero faction for Death.  One that can better stand up against Stormcasts and friends. I would also hope for some new model releases.

[shinros]

 

3 hours ago, xspire said:

Unfortunately none of the factions within GA: Death seem to be able to support a battletome without extensive reworks and new models / units. I wouldn't want them to start combining things that don't make sense together just to get a book out of it.

I can't see a deathrattle tome coming out, deathrattle currently has 4 choices, the amount of work needed to build that into a battletome is huge. Combining deathrattle + deadwalkers would be redundant, that's essentially what GA: Death is designed for anyway. There's lots of rumours about a deathrattle tome but it doesn't actually make any sense unless it's going to be a huge release, and if it is you have to think what could they possibly add? If you look at all the other battletomes they're based around selling models - most have a £20-30 box set of 3-5 models that are very strong and almost a requirement. They have big hero kits that cost around £30+. Currently Deathrattle has 1 hero choice and is based around cheap horde box sets. Not ideal for selling models, so unless something really major is coming for deathrattle I can't see them getting a battletome.

Soulblight has a few more choices, but it would need new models for existing units - I think GW would prefer to design and release new units and models as that is what will draw new players. New models for Fell bats, bats swarms etc. will only appease existing Soulblight players, not bring new players to death / soulblight and sell models. So I would be surprised if they get a battletome.

Nighthaunt seem like they could support a battletome with the least work, possibly a few new additions. However, Nighthaunt are working quite well straight out of GH17 already so I don't think GW would invest in creating a tome for them when they don't have any serious problems.

Deadwalkers fall into a similar situation to deathrattle, and they work fine as GA: Death.

Deathlords... this has potential to be built out but I can't imagine it being done, the amount of new units needed to make it into a battletome doesn't seem to fit in with GW's plans. If they were doing a revamp / release on this scale I feel like they would be teasing it, and teasing it really far in advance to drum up people's attention.

Realistically they haven't said they're doing a tome for Death in 2018. They said they're doing some death releases, so far that's been the Sepuchral Guard for Shadespire, usable in AoS, and next year the Malign Portents release which will have a herald for death - as well as every other alliance. A lot of people have misread the release information for Malign Portents, it's not a 'death' release, it's a narrative / matched play release for every alliance, with models for every alliance, and these people are generating rumours left, right and centre.

Maybe there will be some new information over the next couple of weeks, but we'll see. It you follow the warhammer-community page they have been pushing a lot of Death painting guides over the last few weeks so maybe that is an indicator for something but it could also just be part of their normal painting guide schedule.

 

Hence why I believe they are getting a new line to be honest. Since it takes like 2+ years for GW to design and make models. I am thinking new zombies, vampires and liche's etc in the deathlord/shadespire theme. 

[Tailessine]

I would'nt be surprised if Death gets a whole new army, a la Kharadron Overlords, which has a new aesthetic entirely. However, based on current models Nighthaunt would be the least work- hopefully the Knight of Shrouds next year will be powerfull enough to give them a decent hero choice and the mortis engine also becomes nighthaunt; then you have a pretty large and viable faction.

[NinjaDetective]

What I'd like for malign portents is a new krell model/wight king dual kit thats mounted on some sort of monster

A lich/skeleton mage hero

Dreadknight type unit like stormcast sized wights.

Think you could make a decent battletome with these and existing models.

Could remake bone giants, skeleton chariots, skeleton bowman

 

 

 

 

 

 

[xspire]

8 hours ago, NinjaDetective said:

What I'd like for malign portents is a new krell model/wight king dual kit thats mounted on some sort of monster

A lich/skeleton mage hero

Dreadknight type unit like stormcast sized wights.

Think you could make a decent battletome with these and existing models.

Could remake bone giants, skeleton chariots, skeleton bowman

 

 

 

 

 

 

Malign Portents is only giving death the Knight of Shroud model already teased, it's not going to be a model release beyond heralds for alliances which coincide with new scenarios / gameplay content.

[Sception]

I expect the next death battletome will be deathrattle.  I expect it will add exactly zero new units.  Instead skeletons with spears and skeletons with swords will be treated as two different units.  Same with grave guard w/ great weapons vs. hand weapons.  Other than that, no changes except the introduction of the standard subfaction rules, which will be generally underwhelming.  No spell lore, because there are no deathrattle wizard models.  May or may not see mounted wight kings & wight kings w/ black axes & infernal standards dropped from the tome, since they have no plastic models.  Might see the sepulchral guard characters added as new heroes, but... looking at the current battle scroll for them I doubt it.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong about this, but I have no reason at the moment to believe I will be.  This seems to be the general treatment expected by leftover WHFB subfactions.  Which is all the undead are in this game.  Cold, week-old, moldy leftovers.

[someone2040]

5 hours ago, Sception said:

I expect the next death battletome will be deathrattle.  I expect it will add exactly zero new units.  Instead skeletons with spears and skeletons with swords will be treated as two different units.  Same with grave guard w/ great weapons vs. hand weapons.  Other than that, no changes except the introduction of the standard subfaction rules, which will be generally underwhelming.  No spell lore, because there are no deathrattle wizard models.  May or may not see mounted wight kings & wight kings w/ black axes & infernal standards dropped from the tome, since they have no plastic models.  Might see the sepulchral guard characters added as new heroes, but... looking at the current battle scroll for them I doubt it.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong about this, but I have no reason at the moment to believe I will be.  This seems to be the general treatment expected by leftover WHFB subfactions.  Which is all the undead are in this game.  Cold, week-old, moldy leftovers.

Personally I don't agree. I think it's quite a pessimistic view to think they will get the Beastclaw Raider/Bonesplitterz treatment. While there are plenty of 'old world' races that were migrated into AoS without new models (Pestilens, Seraphon, Flesh-Eater Courts in addition to the above), there are others that have enjoyed new models in Sylvaneth, Khorne Bloodbound and Tzeentch Arcanites (Although, the latter I would probably consider mainly as a new range, since the Tzeentch mortals that did migrate obviously don't quite fit with the new Arcanites).

 

I also don't think it fits. It's fine to split up weapon options when you can create unique special rules that make sense why the unit would act differently just because they have a different weapon. Will Skeleton Warriors really act that differently just because they're armed with Blades vs Spears? What about Grave Guard with Blades vs Greatblades? My thinking is not really, and hence it doesn't make much sense to split the warscrolls. Saurus Warriors, Stormcast Liberators, Bloodreavers, plenty of examples of units which have different weapon options available to them.

 

That being said, I won't be surprised if the Infernal Standard gets dropped. There's no current model for it, and it's not easy to convert (Given you lose the Shield) from the current model range. I think it would make sense that if Forgeworld bring back that model, for it to be a Forgeworld warscroll and a completely different weapon option. Personally I feel all banner bearers really should be different scrolls, as they change the dynamic of the character a ton (Freeguild Generals, Orruk Warbosses, etc).

 

Overall, I think Deathrattle will get some new content. I don't think GW are so blind that they'll push out a new Death release without adding new units into the fold. They got away with it for Flesh-Eaters by using different components, but I'm sure they're well aware with the demise of Tomb Kings that Death are the smallest Grand Alliance and are in dire need of new content. If I was to be bold, I'd perhaps predict that we'll actually see a few Death factions next year as Nagash ramps up in the narrative.

[LJ26]

9 hours ago, xspire said:

Malign Portents is only giving death the Knight of Shroud model already teased, it's not going to be a model release beyond heralds for alliances which coincide with new scenarios / gameplay content.

Do you have any information that your basing this on or just your opinion? 

[NinjaDetective]

10 hours ago, xspire said:

Malign Portents is only giving death the Knight of Shroud model already teased, it's not going to be a model release beyond heralds for alliances which coincide with new scenarios / gameplay content.

Sure , but if we were getting new models units what would you like to see

[xspire]

56 minutes ago, LJ26 said:

Do you have any information that your basing this on or just your opinion? 

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/08/shadespire-age-of-sigmar-malign-portents-breaking.html

[Elmir]

Another reason why I expect deathrattle to be a pretty major release (in terms of new models) is the fact hat designing a model range takes roughly 2 years. That was mentioned several times when certain crowds in the community started demanding new female models... GW pretty much stated it takes that many years to design something new. 

That, along with the early  decision to stop producing Tomb kings in AoS (they stated that the older skeletons used in the TK army did not match the aestethics of death moving forward), makes me believe  that a lot of the things that were in TK armies (artillery, archers,chariots) might get redesigned to fit in with the more recent deathrattle models (new skelies, wight king and grave guard). 

If I were a betting man, I'd put a large amount of money on GW putting Deathrattle up as the first GA:D subfaction to get a complete overhaul for models. 

[Moonlightwolf]

18 minutes ago, Elmir said:

Another reason why I expect deathrattle to be a pretty major release (in terms of new models) is the fact hat designing a model range takes roughly 2 years. That was mentioned several times when certain crowds in the community started demanding new female models... GW pretty much stated it takes that many years to design something new. 

That, along with the early  decision to stop producing Tomb kings in AoS (they stated that the older skeletons used in the TK army did not match the aestethics of death moving forward), makes me believe  that a lot of the things that were in TK armies (artillery, archers,chariots) might get redesigned to fit in with the more recent deathrattle models (new skelies, wight king and grave guard). 

If I were a betting man, I'd put a large amount of money on GW putting Deathrattle up as the first GA:D subfaction to get a complete overhaul for models. 

This exactly. Tomb kings were beloved but a lot of their miniatures were ancient and the way deathrattle has been described in the lore it seems like the perfect rebirth for the faction.

[Aginor]

Man I hope it is either a Death battletome that brings the factions more together, or Deathrattle.
Skeleton hordes are so iconic, I started that army despite it being somewhat weak.

....which is why I play Grand Alliance Death with a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon and two Necromancers to have some buff units and a hard hitter.

I hope they either make Deathmages "wildcard" so they don't take up aly points, or only half ally points, something like that. A few spells wouldn't hurt either.

As for Deathrattle, the army could use some more varied units. At least one or two of the following:
- some big hard hitter, like a Bone Giant
- some artillery, like a catapult shooting skulls
- something fast but not too squishy, like a chariot
- some archers
- some priest or wizard if they don't allow us to use more ally points.
 

.....aaaand I am inventing Tomb Kings again. Happens to me every time I think about what units Deathrattle lacks....

[AverageBoss]

13 hours ago, someone2040 said:

I also don't think it fits. It's fine to split up weapon options when you can create unique special rules that make sense why the unit would act differently just because they have a different weapon. Will Skeleton Warriors really act that differently just because they're armed with Blades vs Spears? What about Grave Guard with Blades vs Greatblades? My thinking is not really, and hence it doesn't make much sense to split the warscrolls. Saurus Warriors, Stormcast Liberators, Bloodreavers, plenty of examples of units which have different weapon options available to them.

There are also examples of units that do get different warscrolls depending on weapons such as Prosecutors, Raptors, Paladins, and Dracothian Guard in the SC book. Though that was probably due to wanting to give those units different point values as the different  wargear options are nowhere near the same in terms of impact. I could see Grave Guard potentially getting that treatment.

Though what I would really like to see is Black Knights completely rewritten to be mounted wights once more, rather than simple mounted skeletons.

[Sception]

Expecting a complete overhaul of the deathrattle line is... overly optimistic.  Particularly given that the studio took care to ensure that the Shardspire skittles would fit right in with the existing skeleton models - same looking style, same looking armor & shields, etc.  We might ~ might ~ get some new stuff - though I've already expressed my own expectations on the matter - but updates or replacements for any existing deathrattle plastic kits strike me as extremely unlikely.

[someone2040]

11 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

There are also examples of units that do get different warscrolls depending on weapons such as Prosecutors, Raptors, Paladins, and Dracothian Guard in the SC book. Though that was probably due to wanting to give those units different point values as the different  wargear options are nowhere near the same in terms of impact. I could see Grave Guard potentially getting that treatment.

While that is true, those units all have different load-out options and special rules for their different weapons.

For example Javelin Prosecutors can't take the grand weapons while the Hammer Prosecutors can. The Dracothian Guard all have different special rules for each type and differences in Dracoth type. The Dracothian Guard and Paladins both get slightly different modelling options as well (different heads). And I'm sure in some ways, they learnt from the original Judicator predicament with Longstrikes in that different loads out can definitely mean they need different points.

 

So I don't really see it applying to Deathrattle. The thing about a lot of old world stuff, is that the weaponry and equipment are quite grounded. Not that it's a bad thing, but in some ways AoS is pushing the opposite. And if the unit aren't wielding super awesome kills in one blow swords, then they're not going to get rules as such.

[Gotrek]

At nova GW had a Q&A session where it was specifically asked if we were going to see a deathrattle battletome and the answer was "not this side of christmas ". So im betting that by Q2 we'll have one. As for what could go into it, well, literally anything you can imagine since its just the skeletons of living creatures and the lore in GA death and shadespire has said that Wights retain their memories and personalities. So theres no reason we cant see wizards with their own spell lore, or monstrous infantry (ogres)/cavalry(mournfang), skeletal dragons or magmadroths. Im hoping for some skeletal pegasai.

[feuermann]

Hope to see a Deathrattle batletome and get new units (archers, chariots, light calv. All with the old vc æsthetic)

Not imagine tk only, think in a full cav deathrattle army with some archers keadered by mounted wight kings: you'll have deathtonians

[Sception]

It would be nice.  Don't get me wrong, I have a wish list a mile long for skeletons and every new addition is more than welcome, provided it actually fills a gap and isn't just a rehash of something they already have.  I would love to see new stuff, I just don't actually expect to.  Hope is the first step on the path to disappointment, after all.

[Koalaninja]

Cost saving idea for GW. Sell Skeleton conversion kits. Just a ton of assorted skulls, arms hands etc. Allow any warscroll to be converted to ‘death’ and given that keyword provided it is modeled to be dead. ?

[Lavy]

This was definitely mentioned in another thread before, but GW could easily grab the most current and properly scaled Tomb Kings models like the tomb guard, both flavour of sphinxes, sepulchral stalkers etc. and introduce new concepts and a few new models and could rebrand the tomb Kings as something new and original.

 

would be an easy way to bring back some old sets and to push the sales of a few new ones and would be more cost effective than doing an entire new army from scratch ala sky dwarves.

[xspire]

22 minutes ago, Lavy said:

This was definitely mentioned in another thread before, but GW could easily grab the most current and properly scaled Tomb Kings models like the tomb guard, both flavour of sphinxes, sepulchral stalkers etc. and introduce new concepts and a few new models and could rebrand the tomb Kings as something new and original.

 

would be an easy way to bring back some old sets and to push the sales of a few new ones and would be more cost effective than doing an entire new army from scratch ala sky dwarves.

I mean, when you think about it, it actually wouldn't be a good idea for them to rebrand Tomb Kings. The simple fact is, Tomb Kings as an army was discontinued primarily because it was NOT cost effective: It had low sales and high production costs.

To generate more profit and more new players, it's not in GW's best interest to rebrand Tomb Kings. Popular opinion on this forum is that TKs are awesome - but look where we are... GA: Death forum, we might be slightly biased.

If you look at the majority of the AoS releases since launch, I would say that re-moulds or reproductions of existing units are few and far between, and most of the models actually released have been new concepts / new units.

[WoollyMammoth]

12 minutes ago, xspire said:

I mean, when you think about it, it actually wouldn't be a good idea for them to rebrand Tomb Kings. The simple fact is, Tomb Kings as an army was discontinued primarily because it was NOT cost effective: It had low sales and high production costs.

To generate more profit and more new players, it's not in GW's best interest to rebrand Tomb Kings. Popular opinion on this forum is that TKs are awesome - but look where we are... GA: Death forum, we might be slightly biased.

If you look at the majority of the AoS releases since launch, I would say that re-moulds or reproductions of existing units are few and far between, and most of the models actually released have been new concepts / new units.

This is not true. TK was, and continues to be a popular army. The lack of popularity was due to the fact that their tome was brutally outdated and sadly underpowered at the end of 8th. It started to get rapid populartiy with its very good rules in AoS, then they cut the chord on it. With all the Shadespire lore going around, its very clear that the Katophranes are the new TK - an ancient race of eternally living skeletons from a city in the desert filled with riches. GW simply cannot brand "Egyptian mummies" as their own IP and so are re-branding them in a way that they can own the IP.