keeper of secrets v EDOS

[Tasman]

So, I've started dabbling with my slaanesh stuff again and I'm sad that the keeper has only 10 wounds and a lousy save.

 i'm probably going to start using the exalted instead, and have decided to use Magnus for the model until GW releases a suitable greater demon in the vast and distant future [so it seems] I'm a retired guy on fixed income, so that forge world abomination is not the answer for me....

Thoughts on proper use?

[NurglesFirstChosen]

Have you checked out the creature caster daemons? Think they have some options for a KOS model too 

[Tasman]

Wow. I'd never heard of this shop. Very cool stuff here. Yeah, I maybe able to work something in from this line, although they seem a little small at their sizes...[5.5 - 6"]

'

[Kramer]

Or go for a daemon prince of slaanesh. Works very well and the pre-emptive strike ability is very cool. 

[Tasman]

2 hours ago, Kramer said:

Or go for a daemon prince of slaanesh. Works very well and the pre-emptive strike ability is very cool. 

Yeah, I've used him.... But now that the new abilities are in the GHB, I wanted the keeper for the other command ability.... 15 wounds 3+ save, casts 2 spells,  and a $h!t ton of attacks. I just needed something a little bigger to represent him, hence Magnus. The model I like at Creature Caster is out of stock at the moment, but might work for me. Not sure about size-wise.

[Kramer]

Well that’s of course fair? maybe puppetswar has something for you? I ordered from them for the first time and was pleasantly surprised by the quality. 

[themortalgod]

Tbh I think both are kinda crappy. The EDOS is more than double the pts of a KoS and you aren't getting near double the power/resilience of one. Imo 2x KoS is better than 1x EDOS. I think Magnus is fine as a KoS though, Greater daemons are just as big as Magnus, (see Bloodthirsters and Lord of Change), its just the KoS model is so out of date, it really is too small. 

[Tasman]

I guess his size, as it is right now, pretty much reflects that he's a lesser greater demon, at ten wounds, he's pretty squishy. The keeper, by no means a Blood Thirster, was always kinda pretty good in cc. I just want a model that's gonna give that impression, and a Keeper just don't quite fill the bill. At least not in games upwards of 1k-1.5k.

So- it's the exalted, portrayed by Magnus, for me. Until we see a new model. Until then, I'll be watching that Creature Caster site, for sure.

Keeper is 280 pts, btw, an exalted MERELY 500.

[Squirrelmaster]

Yeah, the EGDoS is "only" about 79% more expensive than the regular keeper. For that, you get 50% more wounds, with a bonus save that amounts to 125% more effective wounds against rend "-". The EGDoS is more vulnerable, point-for-point, to mortal wounds and high rend, but more resilient to low rend. It also benefits more from Mystic Shield and Oracular Visions, potentially you can get a 2+ re-rollable which would make it way more resilient, per point, than the regular Keeper — at least against rend "-".

For melee hitting power, the EGDoS's greatblade averages about 200% more damage than the regular Keeper's, the claws about 17% more. In total, that means the EGDoS about 71% more wounds on average, but with better rend.

Spellcasting, you get two spells instead of one, but of course the second spell will generally be less useful. The EGDoS's Cacophonic Choir also does 50% more damage if it goes off, but it's a pretty weak spell either way.

There's no difference in the "Dark Temptations" ability, but that's basically worthless in competitive play anyway.

Their command abilities are basically the same, but it's not as if taking more Keepers would let you use the ability additional times (okay yes, Invaders). Having the EGDoS on the table also tends to mean you have a better target to use the ability on — force multipliers, etc.

In conclusion, I'd say the EGDoS gives slightly better power and resilience per-point than a regular Keeper, but of course it depends on what you're up against.

[Tasman]

As well as how it'd be received in your particular gaming meta.... I have both power gamers and single army noobs in mine.... I usually run pretty vanilla lists with that in mind. Kind of frustrating as I have a pretty extensive collection.

Also, I'm not really a fan of the tournament scene and all the power build shenanigans that seem to abound there.

Unfortunately, in my meta, there's no interest in anything BUT matched play, the illusion of balanced games keeps everyone focused on list building. So.....