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unit fillers


Arkiham

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Yes you read that right. unit fillers.

 

back in "ye olde time"s of the old world when units used to be on movement trays and were rank and file some people who wanted to dress up units or get more "bang for their buck" used things called unit fillers. 

random bits of terrain or other models to fill out the movement trays and provide some variety whilst keeping the unit uniformed in size. for instance, a unit of chaos warriors on 25mm bases could have something on a 50mm base to take up 4 chaos warrior model spaces, or something on a 75x50mm to take up 6. for instanceIMG_1790.JPG.bd4bf2772cd60827997dd378a86e7c5f.JPG

you could fit heroes into units back then etc etc but lets not go into that.

 

anyway. 

 

with base to base pretty much the universal standard and painting scores and awards being highly valued... could it be time for the unit filler to perhaps make a come back ? obviously if measuring base to base it would require being on the same size base but it could add some nice variety to large units and break up the uniformity of them.

 

what are peoples thoughts?

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11 minutes ago, Auticus said:

the skirmish formation nature of this game would mean to me that things like unit fillers would not work at all.  There would be a lot of arguments I forsee.

They way i read it was using fillers to add in variation, but keep the fillers on same size bases (25, 32, etc) and have them repesent models in the unit.  So instead of 40 clan rats, you have 30 and 10 something elses on 25mm bases, like a captured dwarf or a secret hatchway or... something.  

It would certainly look nice for very large units where the model variation is poor, and you can always take off the fillers early as the unit gets killed (or swap out for models you do remove).  As long as the opponent is clear the bases are active models and not just scenery i dont see a problem with it if they are used sparingly.

EDIT: i guess you could make the fillers bigger to represent a 4 or 6 model square, but it starts restricting you and might look out of place amongst skirmishing models.

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28 minutes ago, Spiky Norman said:

I really really hope not.

Unitfillers was a shortcut to avoid having to paint too many models in WHFB.

That movement trays are already popping up in AoS is sad enough, but unitfillers would be even sadder, in my opinion.

Agreed bummed movement trays are appearing.

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To me, unit fillers work really in massed-rank units that must maintain their formation.  It gives a chance for some modelling opportunities, can help break up the monotony of painting so many of the same model, and can help lessen the costs of bulking up your army.  However, it doesn't really work as much in a game with loose unit formations.  I'll give you my reasoning.

In both types of games loose or tight formation, the size of the base matters.  However, in tight formation, the unit's facing is often important.  Additionally, in the case of Warhammer Fantasy Battles, it was just the outer rows and columns of models that mattered; so long as you paid the points for the models, you could use a pencil and paper to record how many models were left in the unit rather than having to use a physical model.  Unit fillers are a good compromise between that abstraction vs. representation that wargamers always struggle with.

For loose formation units, unit fillers don't really work, since, in many cases, the size of the model and size of its base are used to represent the model's presence on the board.  Also, loose formation games tend to focus on the actions at a model-by-model basis, whereas the tight formation games look at the unit's actions instead.

To me, the best unit fillers in Age of Sigmar would be actual models.  If we want, we could say that less expensive, 3rd party models could count as unit filler and are the first casualties removed.

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21 hours ago, Spiky Norman said:

Unitfillers was a shortcut to avoid having to paint too many models in WHFB.

 

Depends on who did them. I did a few myself. Mostly because I go tired of 20 to 30 (close to) monopose models pushed together. None of them survived my hiatus when I went to university i think but I put at least the amount of effort in it would have taken me to paint those extra 6 to 10 models. 

A mate had a brilliant 'mosh pit' in his Ork unit* I think inspired by this brilliant golden daemon entry/winner:

image.png.dfaa3e7fcecf24aede3087deff8490d8.png

*it did get tricky once in a while when removing models but nothing that couldn't be fixed. 

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Yeah, definitely don't see how block unit fillers would be viable in a single model game like AoS. One of the things that I really like about Kings of War is that the unit footprint is what counts  and it lends it self to building unit dioramas, some of which look really neat. I guess if you're going for visual rather than trying to not buy or paint as many models, you could bring along a little unit filler similar to old(but maybe on a round base), something like a big keg of beer on a cart for dwarfs and bring it along with your troops, but don't treat it as having any in game effect(i.e  when combat starts move it out of the way).

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1 hour ago, Spiky Norman said:

That movement trays are already popping up in AoS is sad enough

Wait, really? unit fillers are coming back in AoS?  Locally I saw some at the very beginning when people were just switching over from WHFB and using their armies as is from WHFB(they were evening going so far as to "balance" based on their 8th points) and treating AoS as a new ruleset for WHFB. Of course that died out quickly, people abandoned AoS for a mix of Kings of War and 9th age and when AoS started coming back from the dead with the GHB, I haven't seen a movement tray(or even many square bases really).

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I use this, but only for my unit of 60 zombies in which I have some 60mil bases with large zombie groups, which my friends agree represents 5 zombies.  I keep them at the back and they are the first to be removed after suffering 5 casualties.  this is to merely help me move large units of 60 zombies. 

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TBH I've been toying with the idea of using movement trays for a while now. If I'm pushing a block of 20 Dæmonettes across the board without really changing their "formation", it saves a lot of time to just slide a tray forward however far, rather than moving each model individually. Once I get into charge distance I can move them individually off the tray to handle the per-model positioning aspect of the game. It also means that if I usually end up purposefully deploying, say, skeletons in a line 1" apart to act as a screen, I can use a pre-measured movement tray to quickly set up blocks of 10 of them at the correct distance, and move them around while maintaining that distance, without having to painstakingly measure the 1" gap for each model each time.

If you want to play a larger game in limited time, I'd say trays can be a huge help.

Now, I'd be hesitant to include "fillers", as such, but adding some minor decorations on the tray and/or bases, so long as it's not interfering with the game, maybe some "spacers" like gravestones that sit between zombies (but are not models in any sense), maybe even helpful markers to track wounds, spells & abilities, etc. That seems in keeping with the more positive aspects of the "fillers" of old (a chance to include some unique mini-dioramas and cool conversions to your army), without the more controversial "how can I field a unit of 100 zombies without actually buying, assembling, and painting 100 zombies".

In fact so long as it's easy to remove and doesn't affect the battle, I'd be very much in favour of players adding their own custom battlefield decorations, markers, and terrain pieces — whether that actually helps with the physical playing of the game or not.

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I love movement trays for Age of Sigmar because they speed up the initial process of the game. They arn't required and that's really good aswell for the game itself.

I really don't think unit fillers are needed for Age of Sigmar because Ive always felt it was a bandaid to one of the issues Warhammer Fantasy suffered from for years, in the sence that they where selling products that basically where a fraction of a wished for unit. The unit filler offered a cheaper solution that made sence to fill out the unit in the required way.

With the great deals that have been created for AoS I don't really think anyone should really wish for a unit filler. If anything it was also a prime source for confusion and misinforming opponents, as the game also had unit fillers that where supposed to be a unit filler (e.g. screaming bell).

 

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Chucking in a couple of identically based "different" models or "filler" types (such as a barrel, scenic piece, gunpowder monkey etc.) to fill lout a unit is fine with me. Makes sense when you drag out old units that were used for games that didn't need units in lots of five/ten.

I know I have plenty of units where I stopped painting once I got to 16 in 5th edition, for instance. Two spare rat models in a unit of 18 skaven, for example.

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2 hours ago, Rubencm81 said:

Try to move 140 monks across the table 1 by 1

That that is even a thing in AoS is a flaw in the game design, if you ask me.

I was worried about all these issues becoming more commonplace with the Massive Regiment change, and it seems it has unfortunately.

 

What it boils down to for me, is that movement trays may ease the task of moving your models, and unitfillers may ease the task of painting your army, but both makes the game look a lot worse on the table, and it raises the bar for players, new and old, to enter the game if it becomes competitive and commonplace (ie 'The standard') to run 140 Plague monks for instance. The visual aspect of the game is perhaps more important to me than others, but I think it matters a whole lot.

That it feels necessary to use movement trays and unit fillers seem to be workarounds to a problem that should be fixed rather than accepted and worked around.

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^Unit fillers done right improve the army visual, as far as I'm concerned. Nothing like a cool little diorama on a 50x50 base to add variety and interest. I don't see it as an accessory to "speed up" painting as they can require a lot more of work. I think it depends on the intentional use of said fillers. If you check some KoW armies, you see some amazing stuff that looks waaay better than ranks upon ranks of the same minis.

But I agree with many here, AoS is just not designed for unit fillers. And the fact movement trays are very recommendable when playing massive regiments yet making it unpractical for combat is an example of game-design flaw. 

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AoS is a skirmish game, fundamentally more suited for lower model-count armies, whereas old Warhammer Fantasy Battles was a massed-battle system, more suited for multiple blocks of 20-100 models. I honestly prefered the aesthetic of massed ranked infantry, so I was a little saddened by the switch to AoS, but both systems have merits.

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15 hours ago, Squirrelmaster said:

In fact so long as it's easy to remove and doesn't affect the battle, I'd be very much in favour of players adding their own custom battlefield decorations, markers, and terrain pieces — whether that actually helps with the physical playing of the game or not.

Oh this reminds me of a dice carrying gnoblar someone made on this site. That was a great and thematic idea to show wounds dice

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7 hours ago, Rubencm81 said:

Try to move 140 monks across the table 1 by 1

Sure, pm and I'll send you my address to mail them ?

But in all seriousness if playing with that many is not fun maybe it's a sign GW was correct in the AoS initial design.

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2 hours ago, Squirrelmaster said:

AoS is a skirmish game, fundamentally more suited for lower model-count armies, whereas old Warhammer Fantasy Battles was a massed-battle system, more suited for multiple blocks of 20-100 models. I honestly prefered the aesthetic of massed ranked infantry, so I was a little saddened by the switch to AoS, but both systems have merits.

And you still can, technically.  Just because there is a move towards round bases does not mean that ranks upon ranks of models are no longer a thing.

Also, I find it interesting how AoS has changed people's perceptions of units and squad sizes.  I mean, back when I was playing WHFB, nobody wanted to build large blocks of infantry.  10 to 15 models were the average, with hardly anyone going larger that 25 or 30 except for Undead players with Skeletons and Zombies.  At least in my experiences, the way AoS has included bonuses to the units by having larger numbers of modes (those "for every 10 models" rules), and now coupled with the Massive Regiments discounts, there is an incentive to getting larger units, at least no apprehension for it anymore.  Back in the day, I would never have considered a block of 40 Dwarf Warriors in a single unit.  But now, I actually like the idea of collecting and painting up a unit like that!

I actually like seeing large amounts of painted models on the tabletop.  And I'm making steady progress on getting there with my own armies!

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@BunkhouseBuster Interesting. Did you play 8th edition much, or was it more 6th & 7th? I ask because I saw a massive increase in the number and size of "horde" units during 8th edition — blocks of 30, 40, or even 50 models were not uncommon. I even once played a guy who ran 100 zombies as a single unit (though based on playing other VC players, I have to say that 2 blocks of 50 would have been more viable in my opinion).

I realise that running big blocks of infantry ranked up on square bases is still technically allowed in AoS, but choosing to do so usually puts you at a huge disadvantage for no good reason.

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@Squirrelmaster I only ever got a chance to play 8th Edition, but the local players were not big on powergaming lists, and they kept playing their armies that they had been collecting for the past few editions.  Basically, I only saw 5th, 6th, and 7th Edition Fantasy armies doing their best to keep up in 8th Edition.  Except fr the Undead players, I never saw big blocks of units.

Although as I type that, I remember one Ogre player who put everything into as few units as possible, which looked cool.

Even with round bases, you can run your guys in ranks.  I play my games to try and win by objective, but I still try and keep my stuff thematic for the most part.  Like, I'll put my models in a little formation, and try to keep them in that until it's time to charge and attack.  You ever seen a block of 6 Gore-gruntas in a wedge formation charge into a line Khorne infantry?  It looks sweet!

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On 10/13/2017 at 10:59 AM, Spiky Norman said:

I really really hope not.

Unitfillers was a shortcut to avoid having to paint too many models in WHFB.

That movement trays are already popping up in AoS is sad enough, but unitfillers would be even sadder, in my opinion.

Agreed. One of the great hidden boons of the death of WFB and birth of AoS was the obliteration of any justifications to use filler.

Along with NMM and Counts As, it was part of the Unholy Axis of HobbySins Evil.

Good riddance.

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