Let's chat: Steelheart's Champions

[Killax]

4 hours ago, Turragor said:

I got the guard and the boys so now I'll see what I'll see. Any tips for simple game play steps you might miss as a beginner with stormcast? 

Let your opponent start first, dont stress it and keep the third phase in mind as your main win con.

Steelhearts are great at defending the Neutral zone, this is easier to do when your opponent comes to you. With Denial, Containment and Eternals as a possible third phase win con feel free to consider a Move over a charge.

Additionally the only prime thing to worry about remains Cleave, keep those models off the board and you should do allright. Only real reason to engage is to kill leaders. A dead Gurzag and Warden early are worth charging for.

If you can choke the board, do so. 

[Turragor]

So I got to play 2 3-way multiplayer games (I ended on 11 glory total after both which was too low to go through to the elimination round). Game is great fun.

I do feel I had a bad 2nd game and could have done much better. It's not so important as it was exactly my 2nd game ever

The interesting thing with multiplayer games - especially 3 player - in my extensive 2 games of experience, is that if you are in the middle you're gonna have a bad time if you don't have a firm plan.

I played against the Orruks and the Guard.

Game one I made some nice moves but game 2 was just bad decisions, rough objectives and getting stuck in the middle with two opponents who wanted me to come to them.

[Goblin-King]

13 minutes ago, Turragor said:

The interesting thing with multiplayer games - especially 3 player - in my extensive 2 games of experience, is that if you are in the middle you're gonna have a bad time if you don't have a firm plan.

This is true for (almost?) all free-for-all multiplayer games.
One player is inevitably doomed to be caught in the middle. Or two players duke it out and the third one swoops in and kills the survivor. 

[Turragor]

52 minutes ago, Goblin-King said:

This is true for (almost?) all free-for-all multiplayer games.
One player is inevitably doomed to be caught in the middle. Or two players duke it out and the third one swoops in and kills the survivor. 

Yep. But I think perhaps a 4 way would have a different feel - I'd like to try that out too (though right now I want some 1v1 practise).

Got to say though, this game feels like a tight ship to play. Quite slick.

[Killax]

@Turragor I completely agree with you that in any game where a player is sandwhiched (3 players with the freedom to place boards) the player who's in the middle is in an extremely rough position. In my opinion there are two great ways to counteract this:

1. Thake away the freedom to position boards and have two boards connect on the short side and place the third board in the middle of the "long board".
2. Grab the Katophrane Artefact and place it in the center of the sandwhiched board (instead of a neutral zone). 

All in all though multiplayer games are very political too so make friends  

[Morsla]

On 11/21/2017 at 10:36 PM, Killax said:

(heaps of awesome stuff)

Just wanted to chime in here to say that these writeups are amazing - thanks @Killax! These posts are incredibly valuable for new players like myself.

If anyone is trying to track down which expansion a given card comes from (while we wait for the official GW builder), I have a full card list here that you can sort by name or expansion.

[Goblin-King]

18 hours ago, Morsla said:

Just wanted to chime in here to say that these writeups are amazing - thanks @Killax! These posts are incredibly valuable for new players like myself.

If anyone is trying to track down which expansion a given card comes from (while we wait for the official GW builder), I have a full card list here that you can sort by name or expansion.

Aaaaaand... bookmarked! Thank you very much!

[Requizen]

After a couple games, defensive Stormcast feel strong, but honestly a bit boring. Very little action happens in turn 1, and much of your time is spent just sort of positioning. And if your opponent isn't playing particularly aggressive, it can lead to some very slow, combat-less games. While it's tactical, I'm not sure how fun that is.

[Turragor]

1 hour ago, Requizen said:

After a couple games, defensive Stormcast feel strong, but honestly a bit boring. Very little action happens in turn 1, and much of your time is spent just sort of positioning. And if your opponent isn't playing particularly aggressive, it can lead to some very slow, combat-less games. While it's tactical, I'm not sure how fun that is.

I felt this a little. I'm tinkering with what my super limited experience thinks is a real 'lightning strikes' 3 man wrecking ball (kinda) deck. 

[Killax]

2 hours ago, Requizen said:

After a couple games, defensive Stormcast feel strong, but honestly a bit boring. Very little action happens in turn 1, and much of your time is spent just sort of positioning. And if your opponent isn't playing particularly aggressive, it can lead to some very slow, combat-less games. While it's tactical, I'm not sure how fun that is.

Yeah it is played defensively and so far only Orruks are really rewarded by playing so super aggressive. But I personally like it, it means Objectives from the start and still matter and still really dedicate the game aswell. Combat in my opinion are means to archieve Objectives, if I want a 'meaningless battle' Age of Sigmar delivers better.

What does help every deck to at least be able to go to fifth gear are some amazing Universal Ploys and Upgrades. So far I can say they work in practically every deck:
- Illusory Fighter; it allows you to drawn in an opponent to your board by seemfully deploying haphazardly or even backwards. The moment your opponent ends his movement near or even next to a starting hex though they are in a world of trouble. Because Illusory Fighter is so much akin to a free Move action (or even two in terms of distance able to cover) I consider it to be the best card in the game right now. It allows charging characters to move to safety or strike seemfully out of nowhere. In all my games it has been a massive game changer.
- Shadeglass Darts; while certainly worse as most standard Stormcast attacks it remains an amazing weapon for anyone because of it's extreme reach. It's certainly better as Lightning Blade but at the same time there is also not any great reason to not run both in conjunction with each other. This way you will always be able to at least attack once before charging in and this is rather massive for Stormcast due to their defensive play, numbers and general punishment they recieve when they do charge For most players I wouldn't only say consider it but straight up run it. Against Sepulchral Guard and Ironskull Boyz it can even be essential due to how much those Warbands are leader focused. Against those two in particular a game can be made or broken on the spot if your somehow able to thake them out round 1. 
- The last card I think really spices up Stormcast and sometimes is dismissed altogether is Heroic Stride. The fact that you can move Steelheart 1 hex when an oppossing model ends their activation in two hexes can really push the advantage of ever so slightly more aggressive play.

All in all though I personally do think Stormcast are quite exciting but their plans are indeed somewhat predictable. I still feel their end game is extremely strong if you focus on Denial and Containment and basically only secure that your opponent is not on your board at all. But they do this job the best.

Offtopic: Vash the Stampede is bloody awesome and I hope they will ever do an anime directly inspired by the manga.
 

[Keith]

Anyone tried using sprint ?

I have used it in other decks and it's quite interesting.

I am playing some games with Stormcasts next , I've tried all the other factions , but only had one starter game with the Steelheart's champs.

 

PS , how are placing boards for Stormcasts , do you make a 3 hex bottleneck?

[Killax]

Used it in the past, not sold on it though. Id certainly say bottlenecks pay out, so does Illusory fighter and more, will cover decktech etc if players are interested.

[CodFather]

Always interested in some hot stratz

[Wallack]

Used it (sprint) to get an objective far away when there were only few fighters on the board so I was safe there.

[Killax]

16 hours ago, CodFather said:

Always interested in some hot stratz

Hahaha that sounds great to me, thing really is that it's up to all players to play whatever they want. I do feel we still need more 'aggressive' Objectives to truely be extremely succesful with that part of the Stormcast but going on the offense with them is not a bad plan, the plan however also should have an ultimate goal and that goal to me is very interesting for Stormcast if it's Denial and Containment. Both these end game Objectives are realistic cards to score with the Champs if your main goal is to defend the neutral zone, something you will be able to do suprisingly well. Other than that there also some allround great Objective inclusions now that always will work for Stormcast, in my opinion those are the following:
- Awe-Inspiring (1)
- Consecrated Area (1) (just drive them back)
- Lightning Strikes (1)
- Slayer of Tyrants (1) (especially legit once we're talking about Brightshield or Obryn/Steelheart with Great Strenght)
- Ploymaster (1)
- The Hold Objectives (1) are more open for debate, I still like them, I also know enough players who don't. The thing is that usually melee driven tactics are currently not extremely easily rewarded with even the newest Objectives plus charging with Stormcast is still ideally not done. So far I have decided to include all 5 of them, this makes the deck full of low score Objectives and two high ends. Not ideal but Stormcast simply said don't have score (2) Objectives that are exclusive to them...

For ploys the choices in my opinion are still full of gold. This 10 is what I currently run:
- Peal of Thunder 
- Righteous Zeal
- Sigmarite Wall (over Heroic Guard because of tile choice, move action of choice, Illusory Fighter, Sidestep and Heroic Strike)
- Tireless Assault
- Healing Potion
- Sidestep
- Distraction (Peal of Thunder 1.0)
- Illusory Fighter
- Mighty Swing
- Parry (Inspire in a can)
Shardfall remains a great inclusion too but I do think most players will prefer Parry over it now.

Upgrades:
- Blesses by Sigmar
- Fatal Riposte (50/50 chance of free attacks as an Upgrade is great)
- Heroic Might (anti mirror and Orruk)
- Righteous Strike (bash Leader)
- Army of One (a failsave largely for Round 3)
- Great Fortitude
- Great Strenght
- Helpful Whispers
- Soultrap
- Shadeglass Darts

As we all know the basic attacks of the Stormcast are incredible allready so all we really need is additional strenght or other improvements or more health, because health is always welcome. The basic principle so far has been effective for me and that's keep the Neutral zone clear. Obviously the worst hand you can start out with is Denial and Containment but other than that it can be a nice killing spree dancing around the board connections. If your meta is heaveir on Bloodreavers certainly consider Lightning Blade over Army of One. If your meta includes more Orruks and Sepulchral Guard Army of One becomes the better choice due to deeper Cleave acces.

Other than that some tips that are worth to consider:
- Saek is the only scary dude for Champs, Arnulf comes second with a crit option in his Wicked Blade. Thaking out Saek first, followed by Karsus or Garrek puts you so far ahead allready however that you should be able to push through still.
- Gurzag and Bonekutta are the scarier dudes from Orruks, handle them first. You can completely ignore Hakka and Basha as long as they just deal 1 damage max.
- The Warden is the lynchpin of the Sepulchral Guard match up and is certainly not very easy to catch. Champion has Cleave, Harvester has acces to it so based on those three your choices should be made wisely. In this match up Lightning Blade can also be very effective as it still can deal 2 damage on a crit or even 3 if Great Strenght is involved. The additional Wound gained from Blessed by Sigmar and Great Fortitude goes a long mile though as 3 damage attacks arn't as easy accesible to them. 

 

[Sleboda]

On 11/26/2017 at 4:56 PM, Killax said:

. Grab the Katophrane Artefact and place it in the center of the sandwhiched board (instead of a neutral zone). 

That position is a neutral zone, though,  right?

[Killax]

12 hours ago, Sleboda said:

That position is a neutral zone, though,  right?

What I mend with the above is that the Katophrane Artefact can also be placed in someone's board in the center of the player's board instead of the neutral zone. 

This way you are sandwhiched but will still be able to likely score 3 points in round 1.

[Sleboda]

Ah. Got it.  I thought you were calling the whole arrangement the sandwich.

[mumperpa]

I'm still undecided if its better to win or lose the first roll. Choosing blocked tiles is good, but setting the board longways divides the opponent. I've only played against Khorne, and it seem that having them not get 2v1s is better. 

My experience against khorne has been almost all wins. It is to easy to let them charge you, then kill that fighter. It prevents them from taking advantage of their numbers. Overall thoughts are:

Don't charge into charge range of an enemy fighter. You can one shot almost all their fighters w/ Obryn or Steelheart. I had one game where Brightshield with a +1 damage upgrade killed 3 enemy fighters when they charged her, attacking on my turn. 

Play for objectives. Staying out of charge range is good, and they are easy points. 

My deck uses cards from all the kits, and is as follows

Objectives: 1,2,3,4,5, Awe Inspiring, Sigmar's Bulwark, Consecrated area, both Determined defender+Immovable object (Same card text), superior tactician, Supremacy, 

Ploys: Fortify, stormforged resistance, parry, sigmarite wall, tireless assault, healing potion, sidestep, valiant attack, confusion, heroic guard,

Upgrade: Great fortitude+Blessed by sigmar(same card text), the shadowed key, the dazzling key, shardcaller, cursed artefact, blessed armor, brave strike, helpful whispers, shieldbash 

The deck uses defensive ploys and upgrade to defend my fighters, I try to score points off of objectives like score objectives, Determined defender+Immovable object,  Sigmar's Bulwark, Consecrated area,Supremacy. A few offensive objectives and upgrade and ploys for clearing enemies away for consecrated area. Shardcaller and the keys is an amazing combo, with a score objective per turn, you could get 5 points off a single objective. 

Any ideas for what could improve it? What different ways do you play stormcast? Could my deck do okay against orcs or undead?

[Killax]

@mumperpa good write up and I really agree with your Stormcast vision. What is essential to Stormcast is that no-risk moves are taken before high-risk moves. Indeed I too have found that picking the board second becomes a more and more better choice. This applies even moreso now due to the latest FAQ that confirms placement of Shardfall tokens on Objective tokens are possible and Objective tokens can even be pushed into blocked zones. It really changes the advantage of having 3 Objective tokens, more as I'd recon because in reality picking second was better for tactical purposes anyway. On the other hand, the impact of boardchoice does not decide the game, so I've stopped worrying about it altogether. I know there is a YouTube video floating around on some of the board philosophy but I can't agree with every statement made there. By large because we see more and more board influencing cards.

As for your deck;
- Certainly consider Denial and Containment (both) for your Objective deck. Likely over Superior Tactican and perhaps even over Supremacy. Again the reason is that Shardfall can now do things I deemed impossible before and guaranteed that I'd use it round 1 to put that token onto an Objective making Supremacy much harder to score than ever before.
- I believe one Key to be enough, I also think that your missing out on Heroic Stride, Shadeglass Darts and the newly FAQ'd Swift Strike (action = push own model 1 hex).
- I think you should consider Illusory Fighter in your deck above all and also Mighty Swing. There are many examples of being outnumbered and Illusory Fighter really allows you to deploy out of charge ranges well or speed up. Time Trap is also a very solid card for pretty much every deck now that we know how it works  

I think your deck will do okay against Orruks, one of the ways to beat them is not engage much in their melee tactics round 1. Sepulchral Guard really boils down to why has the 3 Objective tokens on their side but because of them I'd include Swift Strike (to move), Mighty Swing and Illusory Fighter.

Cheers,

[Biboune]

Hi,

I have painted the stormcast band (nmm, they look nice, I am quite proud even if i don't like their "lore"), so i play with them. I just have a little tournament in Paris; I finished in the second position (weird way to decided: counting the best glory score, I won most (7/10 games I think) and my deck don't score a lot of it even if win). So i give you some feed back. My deck (I retranslate from french so it may be quite inaccurate) :

Objective card:

Holds 1-5

bloodless

sigmar bulwark

consecrated area

awe inspiring

lighting strikes

eternals

supererior tactician ( 3 glory for 6 other objective cards already scored)

the purpose here is to be able to score easily some glory in round 1: not fighting (bloodless, sigmar bulwark, consecrated area and hold objective), beeing rewared for fighting ( lighting strikes, awe inspiring) and some 3th round cards. There is an issue: I don't have 2 glory point cards so I won't score a lot (the tournament was about having the best glory score, I won a lot of game but I had around 10 glory where other player lost with this score)

Ploys:

shattering terrain (i love it, you can oneshot an orruk, or play it with distraction like cards etc...)

parry (help to get inspired)

health potion

heroic guard

tireless assault

side step

valiant attack (oneshot an orruk again or a reaver with Angarad)

distraction

peal of thunder

fortify (also help to be inspired but harder to get)

Upgra;ges:

blessed armor (it saved someone few times)

righteous strike

fatal riposte

better stength

blessed by sigmar

helpful whispers

brave strike ( some time 2 damages are enough ,having 3 dices is nice)

heroic might

heroic stride (feeling heroic?)

Soul trp

There is control cards, better health and attack cards. The upgrade letting you to push the leader when an enemy get close has not been useful but i ll kept it hoping it ll do something.

 

I played with the guard in the same tournament, in cromparasion  the stormacastas can drawn card ploy or objective ( 3 fighters means you have most of the time a "free activation" to do). They hit like a truk (i am not sure about the "idiom", i mean they deal a lot of damageà and some cards help to do more damage or to retry a failed attack.

I was lucky with stealheart's mighty swing attack: i killed 3 reavers (thank to shattering terrain), 3 glory points,awe inspiring scored etc. In a another hand, the stormcasts are IMHO nice and easy to play (I was the only stormcast player, i don't know about mirror games, I don't like those that why i have a SC deck ready). they don't score much  glory points but they are secure, easy scoring, they can deal with orruks etc.

 

Ps: (if I made mistakes in english, Mp me please:  I am still learning)

 

[Requizen]

Anyone else get the feeling that SCE are the weakest Warband at the moment? Not like, unwinnably bad, but due to the low model count and predictable gameplay, they don't feel like they're as consistently good as others. 

[Goblin-King]

6 hours ago, Requizen said:

Anyone else get the feeling that SCE are the weakest Warband at the moment? Not like, unwinnably bad, but due to the low model count and predictable gameplay, they don't feel like they're as consistently good as others. 

Let me let you in on a secret I have discovered regarding Shadespire...

Everyone thinks Steelheart’s Champions are the weakest warband
Obviously Garrek's Reavers are the weakest warband
No doubt Sepulchral Guard are the weakest warband
Of course Ironskull's Boyz are the weakest warband

[PanikSpreder]

7 hours ago, Goblin-King said:

Let me let you in on a secret I have discovered regarding Shadespire...

Everyone thinks Steelheart’s Champions are the weakest warband
Obviously Garrek's Reavers are the weakest warband
No doubt Sepulchral Guard are the weakest warband
Of course Ironskull's Boyz are the weakest warband

So true haha

I have a theory that if you check out all factions within a game and alot of people complain about them being weak, the game is then balanced. Luck also plays a major role in a game like Shadespire (my stomach still turns after our two games last wednesday  )

[Goblin-King]

But really... In the Sepulchral Guard thread someone complained that they were the weakest.
I've got a theory that it's largely a matter of the individual player's playstyle contra the warbands' optimal playstyle.
If your natural way of playing clashes with how the warband is best played, it's a tough journey.