Countmoore Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 34 minutes ago, Sheriff said: I'm still baffled how people can paint armies so quickly - is it at the expense of quality? e.g. 'dipping' or just doing a few base colours? Don't people take any pride in Their Dudes' appearance? Is this done generally or just for tournaments? Or am I just inefficient taking 5 hours to paint 7 goblins nicely? I'm glad that tournaments give points for nice painting and sportsmanship, in fact I don't think I'll attend any that do not do this. (I'd double the sports and paint points if it were up to me!) Don't confuse pride and ability. I know many people who can spend all the time in the world and the army still looks ok-ish. I personally have to sacrifice some quality to finish an army or I would never get a fully painted army on the table. I set my stall at the beginning of a project as to what level I'm going for (table top, display etc) and only go to that level. Of course family life impacts on this massively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch of Izalith Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I think we might see a lot more Ironjawz in the tournaments once people realise the impact of the points drop and how brutal smashin' and bashin' can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fraser Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Dan Ford (3rd) BloodThrone Bloodsecrator (Chaos Talisman) Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount (MOK, General, Cunning Deceiver, Beguiling Gem) 4x5 fleshhounds 4x30 Bloodletters Murderhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fraser Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Pano (9th) Mighty Lord of Khorne Bloodsecrator Bloodstoker 2 Priests Skullgrinder 2x15 Bloodwarriors (might be 15+10, can't quite tell as working this out from a picture of deployed army & opponents memory) 10 Reavers 2x5 skullreapers 3 Khorgoraths Gore Pilgrims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Dave Fraser said: ... Do you have any fyreslayers lists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fraser Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Afraid not, Slawek & Dan play round my way so was able to ask them directly and Slawek had a picture of Pano's army from their game. So those are the only lists (from the top end) which I have managed to get my hands on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 42 minutes ago, Countmoore said: Don't confuse pride and ability. I know many people who can spend all the time in the world and the army still looks ok-ish. I personally have to sacrifice some quality to finish an army or I would never get a fully painted army on the table. I set my stall at the beginning of a project as to what level I'm going for (table top, display etc) and only go to that level. Of course family life impacts on this massively. Painting armies is completely different thing to painting single models. With right techniques, good colours and attention to important parts (like bases), one can make phenomenal results in very little time. Back in the warhammer.org.uk times, there was this guy 'curseofbeers' who painted amazing WHFB armies in few weeks. I myself use about 0,5 to 1,5 hour per trooper and have won an actual painting competition in a group category with some of those. But this is all something that comes with practice and adopting existing knowledge. Looking at the work of commission painters, is a good way to learn tricks. Concerning the level of the hobby, I was bit disappointed that there didn't seem to be many new armies, at least in those pics from GW. They were (understandably) mostly armies that have been circulating the scene for some time. I'm outsider to the whole thing, but have been following the things for a long time and somehow I have feeling that there seemed to be more people going for the painting nomination in the GT final with new armies having display stands and all sorts of bling back in the day, but it might also be just the years making things greater than they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 @Jamopower well in many ways the game is still growing! I think the names we see on tournaments are common but also because there simply said arn't that many Age of Sigmar players yet Something I hope we can eventually change aswell by making players aware that it isn't as one-dimensional as some might think. Myself included, the first time I set eyes on Age of Sigmar I doubted it would had the tactical depth I enjoy, but because of how 'free-form' the units are in Age of Sigmar, how now more then ever is less ranged combat focused the more importance is added to 'correct model play'. In addition what makes this game much more interesting as ever is that with GH2017 we see so many new Allegiances and the honest thruth of it all is that we should see many more in order to get the most out of the game and create a game where several factions are capable of competing with each other. In particular the Order and Chaos new Allegiances and costs in GH2017 are truely great, for Destruction some re-tooling should allow them to completely function aswell. While Death is not showing the results many would like to see we also have read that GW is aware of this, so a larger Battletome should put them in the picture. When the dust settles though we should see more new and different armies. However as a TGA community I do hope to see much more Tactica to make the newer community aware of how much is actually involved in the game. For example, Ben had a wonderful Chaos Dwarf result and many have allready asked for specific Tatica from him. If Fyreslayers and Seraphon players follow I am certain more and more armies will show up as a result. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 44 minutes ago, Jamopower said: I myself use about 0,5 to 1,5 hour per trooper This is good to hear, as I spend about this time on each one (on average, production line style) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 37 minutes ago, Killax said: @Jamopower well in many ways the game is still growing! I think the names we see on tournaments are common but also because there simply said arn't that many Age of Sigmar players yet Something I hope we can eventually change aswell by making players aware that it isn't as one-dimensional as some might think. I think the Byron's winning list is a good example what you can do in the game. It has been a great inspiration for me at least, even if my army is completely different. There is a lot of potential as the army creation is so open. There are amazing new stuff in facebook and twitter almost daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mune Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Jamopower said: I think the Byron's winning list is a good example what you can do in the game. It has been a great inspiration for me at least, even if my army is completely different. There is a lot of potential as the army creation is so open. There are amazing new stuff in facebook and twitter almost daily. Sure it worked, but I have been told he didnt have to face changehost/murderhost. Would be nice to see his list facing those armies. A little offtopic, does anyone know where I can get those unit trays, I see all the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 9 minutes ago, Mune said: Sure it worked, but I have been told he didnt have to face changehost/murderhost. Would be nice to see his list facing those armies. A little offtopic, does anyone know where I can get those unit trays, I see all the time? No worries, really, just lists dont make you win as before certain top names have become common and it isnt because they constantly pick the next best thing. The trays seem from Elemental Games, there are more who make them, just google movement trays 32mm etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 19 minutes ago, Mune said: A little offtopic, does anyone know where I can get those unit trays, I see all the time? Warbases and Element Games seem to be the top pick's for movement trays currently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 39 minutes ago, Killax said: The trays seem from Elemental Games, there are more who make them, just google movement trays 32mm etc. Not really a surprise, since Byron is one of the owners (or maybe THE owner, not 100% sure) Has anyone looked at the results of the Michigan GT that was run on the same weekend? I dont know much about it other than noticing on Twitter that death came 3rd and 4th! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 On 10/9/2017 at 12:00 AM, MrCharisma said: I can see Soulblight leading the charge for Death in it's triumphant return to the top. I think the recent tournament scene has been hit by the Moughoul changes, which was being used as a crutch. Soulblight has almost nothing to choose from, and everything it has has seen a point increase. Also hit very hard by the VL on Abyssal Terror changes. I haven't seen anyone even attempt to play Soulblight in a tournament. Death is mostly hordes which cannot be used while DoT continue to dominate - a gaunt summoner is a hard counter to hordes. Mixed death and FEC have some things that do well for them. Death's over reliance on the Mourngul is holding them way back, it never placed them in the top 10, and it won't start to now. I don't see why Death can't do well. Every time I have lost a game while playing Death, there was something I could have done to play better. I have never played a list where I thought - I just can't beat that. Overall my Death lists have been extremely successful since AoS launch, only losing hard when I get sucker punched by something I don't know how to play against yet. 6 hours ago, Sheriff said: I'm still baffled how people can paint armies so quickly - is it at the expense of quality? e.g. 'dipping' or just doing a few base colours? Don't people take any pride in Their Dudes' appearance? Is this done generally or just for tournaments? Or am I just inefficient taking 5 hours to paint 7 goblins nicely? I'm glad that tournaments give points for nice painting and sportsmanship, in fact I don't think I'll attend any that do not do this. (I'd double the sports and paint points if it were up to me!) There are many speedpainting techniques. With varied rattlecan basecoats and quick drybrushing you can make an army look amazing. You can also prime white and use quick shading to create awesome results. Airbrush experts can also paint models very quickly. While all of these can produce beautiful models, they all have a certain look to them that can be easily spotted. Nothing compares to the 'eavy metal' way of careful controlled slow manual techniques. When done correctly, this produces results that blow your brain out the back of your head when you give them a good look. If you spend the time developing these techniques, your results will get better and better whereas if you are doing speed painting, mostly only your speed will improve. ----- People have painted hordes. They don't bring them because they still have too many hard counters which makes horde lists way to swingy to play competitively. It doesn't matter how many ants you bring while there are boots to squash them. Hordemeta is a flawed concept, not a reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easytyger Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, stato said: Not really a surprise, since Byron is one of the owners (or maybe THE owner, not 100% sure) Has anyone looked at the results of the Michigan GT that was run on the same weekend? I dont know much about it other than noticing on Twitter that death came 3rd and 4th! Rhellion took best over all at the Michigan GT with Changehost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmir Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 6 hours ago, Killax said: While Death is not showing the results many would like to see we also have read that GW is aware of this, so a larger Battletome should put them in the picture. There's an understatement... Both in this GT as in the recent Facehammer tournament, the performance of Death was appallingly bad. And it was sort of expected when every semi-good/good unit got a point increase or the straight up nerfbat (like the mourngul). Fixing a single subfaction will not be enough. Not everybody wants to play pure deathrattle in order to be competitive. Sadly, deathrattle will be our only hope for not being absolute garbage tier until GHB18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ageofpaddsmar Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Some of these khorne lists seem massive. All my seraphon list are really small compared to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fraser Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 2 hours ago, ageofpaddsmar said: Some of these khorne lists seem massive. All my seraphon list are really small compared to them 40 skinks = 200 points, fill your boots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equinox Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 5 hours ago, stato said: Has anyone looked at the results of the Michigan GT that was run on the same weekend? I dont know much about it other than noticing on Twitter that death came 3rd and 4th! Sorry, not the best image but it is floating around on Facebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erdemo86 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Still want to know that stormcast list which went 5th please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greedisgoodor Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 did anyone see skryre list? i thought there are totally unplayable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 19 hours ago, RuneBrush said: I also believe that some people are able to freeze time having seen the quality of some armies people have produced in a couple of weeks... I need that skill..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 11 hours ago, Elmir said: There's an understatement... Both in this GT as in the recent Facehammer tournament, the performance of Death was appallingly bad. And it was sort of expected when every semi-good/good unit got a point increase or the straight up nerfbat (like the mourngul). Fixing a single subfaction will not be enough. Not everybody wants to play pure deathrattle in order to be competitive. Sadly, deathrattle will be our only hope for not being absolute garbage tier until GHB18. I think that fixing a single sub-faction can be enough. With the prime example being how Blades of Khorne was created and since the introduction of Bloodbound basically cherry picked X ammount of choices from Daemons of Khorne to be functional, Y ammount of choices from Slaves to Darkness getting said Bloodbound Keyword, Z ammount of new Bloodbound models appearing (note actually the minority in Blades of Khorne are new models) and on top of it all gaining a Monster (Slaughterbrute of Khorne) from Monsters of Chaos. So most certainly fixing a single sub-faction can be enough if the Keywords required are put onto the right Warscrolls. Many people seem to forget that the actually only new models in Blades of Khorne are the Mighty Lord of Khorne, the "Gorechosen" which basically consist out of 8 models, of which 6 are actually unique Hero entries, the Blood Warriors and the Bloodreavers. The complete rest of this faction has become a faction due to Keyword placement and presenting them in a logical single Battletome. When we look at Deathrattle, Deadwalkers, Deathlords and Deathmages they could/should easily be capable to be combined into one Battletome. Which with a handful of new releases and Allegiance rules would be capable to present itself in a competitive manner. I completely agree with you that not every player wants to be a tournament player . But again what Death is suffering from is having too many sub-sub-Factions. If Khorne wasn't an Allegiance you also couldn't for the Khorne armies we know now. (MANY Khorne Warscrolls have logically changed so they match their expected Keywords) Khorne armies present itself as competitive without much (if at all) ranged support, durability or teleportation. Just having new models means nothing in the context of results. Look at Fyreslayers and Kharadron, preforming okay, despite being completely new lines. Then look at Seraphon, preforming really well, despite having no new models since the inception of Age of Sigmar (like Death). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 9 hours ago, Equinox said: Sorry, not the best image but it is floating around on Facebook. Yeah thats what i saw. Scoring is odd, heavy paint bias, but I like that each tournament is different, it forces people to adjust, adapt or improve in different areas. Death would still be top 10 on pure scores which is the opposite of what everyone is saying they can do. <this is Michigan GT results not the UK GT Final incase we are confusing anyone> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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