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Arkiham

Aftermath of the GT final

129 posts in this topic

Countmoore    113
6 minutes ago, Aginor said:

Yet we see only five Seraphon armies on place 26,52,57,66,and 73. Some of the mixed armies probably contain a few Skinks (like the one posted above) or maybe there is a SCE army or two containing a Starpriest as an ally for the buffs.

My friend Nige finished 52nd after a very good day two followed his poor start. He was running a Kroak list with a decent summoning pool. He reckons with more table time he can improve on his facehammer and final results with Seraphon. 

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Ollie Grimwood    624

”Hordemeta” not really happening yet is no surprise the logistical implications of running such an army is always going to limit its use. 

 5 seraphon armies isn’t  too bad given he size of the field and number of AoS factions.  All things being equal it’s probably about what we should be expecting. 

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Nico    1,917

Yep 5/90 Seraphon filth is quite enough thank you.

Great to see the variety in the results. Death are junk as predicted - the difference between a 5++ and a 6++ is colossal - it's hard to see how they didn't make Soulblight and FEC allegiances significantly better than they are. I've seen nothing that makes me want to write a list, whereas Slaanesh, Free Guild and even Brayherd offer definite possibilities.

Order and Stormcast are always looking strong with their level of choice. 

Some notable DoT players weren't there  - Gary Percival swapped from DoT to Bonesplitterz to KO in the weeks before the event while Mark Wildman wasn't at the event.

 

 

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Killax    991
24 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

”Hordemeta” not really happening yet is no surprise the logistical implications of running such an army is always going to limit its use. 

 5 seraphon armies isn’t  too bad given he size of the field and number of AoS factions.  All things being equal it’s probably about what we should be expecting. 

I think that the intend of stating "hordemeta" might varry per player. When I'm talking about "Hordemeta" I'm not talking about every army forming one :) . However those who can, will obviously try and use the changes to their advantage. Which is currently seen in Khorne armies (likely using more Bloodletters as ever) or indeed Seraphon using more Skinks as ever. Many more factions can add to that list.

Stormcast or Ironjawz for example care much less for it because they have very few horde unit options to begin with and in addition to that there are more reasons to not have a single unit cost around 400+ points as there are reasons to do it. As a general rule of tumb I'd say an ideal Horde unit costs between 240-340 points. Anything much more and you'd need a big tactic revolving around them.

I do agree with you that there is a logistical limit but I think we'd also agree on it not being that much of a factor, unless we're talking about (very) timed events.

Edited by Killax

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Aginor    140
24 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

”Hordemeta” not really happening yet is no surprise the logistical implications of running such an army is always going to limit its use. 

 5 seraphon armies isn’t  too bad given he size of the field and number of AoS factions.  All things being equal it’s probably about what we should be expecting. 

 

Yeah in a perfect world we would see most of the ~60 armies. So five in 86 is pretty good.

...if there weren't at the same time 15 SCE armies - of which none is on a bottom 20 place and no Death army at all in the top 30.

Still no real balance in the game unfortunately. Getting better though!

EDIT: @Nico Filth? Yes. Most tournament lists are filth. If the only available competitive list is a filth list of course it gets taken.  That's true for most armies. I'd like to see non-filthy and non-standard lists being viable which is why I am asking.

Edited by Aginor
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Sheriff    273
3 minutes ago, Nico said:

Yep 5/90 Seraphon filth is quite enough thank you.

 

Some notable DoT players weren't there  - Gary Percival swapped from DoT to Bonesplitterz to KO in the weeks before the event while Mark Wildman wasn't at the event.

 

 

What happened to the squig guy that won the previous round? 

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stato    140
7 minutes ago, Nico said:

He took Slaanesh.

 

Unbelievable!  Doesnt he know they are unbalanced?!   Its like he and many of the other players were treating it like some sort of game...  :P  

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Chris Tomlin    2,805

Afternoon,

The lack of Disciples of Tzeentch compared to BLACKOUT and Facehammer GT is really quite shocking and definitely will have given some armies a bit of breathing space. As @Nico says there were a few independent tournament scene regulars who we'd expect to see with the Tzeentch filth who either weren't in attendance or took something different. As well as the names mentioned above, Mike Wilson who has being doing very well of late and @Forestreveries who won Brothers of Sigmar and came 7th at FHGT were both not in attendance.

Interesting to see such a difference in the meta literally one week apart!

There is a very interesting graph that @The Jabber Tzeentch has put on Twitter, perhaps he can share it here.

Well done to all the winners and top 10 finishers, especially the top 2...Byron and Ironjawz, two of my favourite things!! xD

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Ben    1,414

From my point of view as a player, and one lucky enough to be sat around the top tables all weekend, there seemed a good mix of lists.

LOTS of armies build around finding Damned terrain.  far more telling than minor list tweeks!

I faced the KO list in 8th place in the last game.  I got my deployment all wrong and was playing from turn 1 to keep it to a minor loss, which I managed.  It was Ironclad, 21 Wardens/riggers, 30 grunts all with Hooks and 3 Khemists.  No aethermatic endringworks.  just fleet master and hero phase move.  

I also played again Dan's (3rd place) murder host.  Its tough but not unbeatable.  

On the tables around me in round 5/6 there were lots of lists that would have been interesting to face and looked like fun games were going on.  Not as many horror shows of lists when compared to SCGT tables only 6 months ago.  GHB2 is looking great so far.  

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Ollie Grimwood    624
56 minutes ago, Killax said:



I do agree with you that there is a logistical limit but I think we'd also agree on it not being that much of a factor, unless we're talking about (very) timed events.

I was thinking more of a buying, painting, storing and transporting  sort of thing, only so many have the patience, time and resilience to get them done, especially given the time frame between the GHB17 release and the tournament. 

 

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Seraphage    44
1 hour ago, Aginor said:

As a Seraphon player I wonder about the following:

We have quite some improvements for Seraphon in the GHB2017.
Basically everything, even cheap units, got cheaper by 20 points at least, and those new allegiance abilities and traits and artefacts are cool. Up to the point where people started whining about (or celebrating) them before they even played with or against a single Seraphon list "Age of Skinkmar" and all that jazz.

Yet we see only five Seraphon armies on place 26,52,57,66,and 73. Some of the mixed armies probably contain a few Skinks (like the one posted above) or maybe there is a SCE army or two containing a Starpriest as an ally for the buffs.

I also wonder how many of the five lists are actually variants of the Kroak +Vortex+Shadowstrike list made famous by Darren Watson.

So was it "false alarm" and Seraphon are really not that strong (well, better than before obviously so I won't complain), or maybe people just haven't adjusted yet?

It would be interesting to hear from tournament players how they feel about it. Are Seraphon more seen as a looming danger on the horizon that is just not yet there, or as something that can easily be dealt with?

I honestly think - and this holds for all armies in my opinion - that most generals spend their time around the internet trying to find unbalanced hacks of the game rather than working on strategies. Well, really glad a great general won - built his list on his own by his own judgement and prevailed. Truly a promotion of our lovely hobby.

Edited by Seraphage
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Chris Tomlin    2,805
20 minutes ago, Ben said:

On the tables around me in round 5/6 there were lots of lists that would have been interesting to face and looked like fun games were going on.  Not as many horror shows of lists when compared to SCGT tables only 6 months ago.  GHB2 is looking great so far.  

Great to hear! Do you think an element of this is the difference between the independent scene and GW events though?

Personally I hope not and that this is indicative of the variation we will see at all events going forwards.

Well done on your great finish!

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RuneBrush    1,186
5 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Great to hear! Do you think an element of this is the difference between the independent scene and GW events though?

Personally I hope not and that this is indicative of the variation we will see at all events going forwards.

Was only thinking similar over lunch.  It was a GW event and a GT at that, so would this change the people playing and the armies being brought?  I guess we'll find out a bit more with the lists at B&G :)  Hopefully now that people have seen that non-netlists are capable of bring top placing, we might see some greater variety in armies again.

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Killax    991
25 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

I was thinking more of a buying, painting, storing and transporting  sort of thing, only so many have the patience, time and resilience to get them done, especially given the time frame between the GHB17 release and the tournament. 

Oh that's certainly the case now, but the GH2017 adventure has just begun! Especially if Death, Khorne or Seraphon players want to make more competative showings a horde is one of the best routes to go. 

So far I also havn't seen any indication of players really prefering lower ammounts of models anyway, not in WFB either. If this was the case we'd surely see much more Stormcast showings. Keeping that model count much lower as average :) 

Cheers,

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Auticus    1,097

Thats good to hear that things were more varied.

What was the average model count did you find?

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MayItBe    3
2 minutes ago, Paul Conti said:

are the top lists available anywhere?

image.png.8e8789c0b96ccfffc630285d1a0917

Winner



2nd place from memory:
MawCrusha
shaman
3 pigs
3pigs
6 pigs
30 ardboyz
+maybe something more, no brutes tho

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Ben    1,414

I'll be posting all the lists over at baddice.co.uk/lists as soon as I get them.  Usually takes a couple of weeks

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Ben    1,414

OMG! There was a 2nd Legion player! Does anyone know Matt McDonnell??

 

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6 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said:

There is a very interesting graph that @The Jabber Tzeentch has put on Twitter, perhaps he can share it here.

The chart has been removed due to incompetence on my part. 

 

Edited by The Jabber Tzeentch
Retardation
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Sigwarus    20

About age of skinkmar and the absence of hord meta. My brother won Swedens largest tournament last weekend with a mixed Order list using 90 skinks. 

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Nico    1,917
Quote

LOTS of armies build around finding Damned terrain.  far more telling than minor list tweeks!

Well done on doing well with the Legion. I think they look pretty solid.

I suggested a while back that Damned Terrain only work on melee attacks - to lessen its impact of encouraging funlines. It's dire when you play 90 Arrer Boyz snipe the +1 to hit Wizard turn one and they still get +1 to hit for practically no damage taken.

Alternatively it could give +1 to wound and Mystical could be Reroll Hits.

Edited by Nico

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Arkiham    1,172
1 hour ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

Attached is the chart showing average allegiance result in blue and associated amount of players in orange. 

The higher the amount of players the more accurate the representation but it should give a rough estimate of tier. 

IMG_7417.PNG

Unsure if I follow this, is it complicated to understand or am I being thick? 

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