Let's Chat: Spiderfang

[Sheriff]

No such thread already so here it is. 

In GH2017 we have some interesting new options, and a mix of good news and bad news. 

The good news:

• The cost of riders has come down if you pick 30 together, saving a tasty 60 points. This then incentivizes using even more buffs (e.g. mystic shield) on this mega-unit in battle. The cost saving and allies change means a Moonclan Shaman for the buff can almost be afforded with the spare points from the monstrous regiment saving. 
• The Destruction item 'Rockeye' is awesome on the Arachnarok, giving it +1 to hit and therefore much higher chance of dealing 4xD3 (sometimes D6) mortal wounds on the bites.
• The Boss general is still awesome value at 100 points, with 4+ re-rollable save and a huuuuge AOE buff for all spiders, doubling chance to mortally wound. Arm him with the Battered Talisman and Big and Bruttish for great tankiness. 
• The spider riders now always hit on a 6, which is a decent boost to their shi77y likelihood of hurting things with their bows. Remember they get 2 shots each, so 60 shots per turn from that 30-model unit is pretty good considering they can move forward a lot in the first turn and darken the sky with arrows. Same for the guys on top of the Arachnarok(s). 
• Awesome allies options, such as Moonclan Grots and Fanatics for extra map control and spiderbro protection, or if you want even more mortal wounds then consider some tanky trolls puking everywhere  . And of course cheap-as-chips Moonclan Shamen for the buffs and yet more mortal wounds. 
• Seems we might be seeing more monstrous hordes of low-save ghouls and rats etc., so the bow-spam of the spider riders might become more useful than before? 

The bad news:

• No longer got the +hit trait for your mortal wound bites. This means you need to use the above new tricks to make up for this loss. Does it all balance out? 
• No longer got the huge Destruction movement boost in the hero phase. You can mitigate this with the monstrous spider regiment though, still using the new single-unit movement boost? Plus we have 8 inch movement anyway so movement nerfs don't effect us as bad as our orc cousins (and can move over obstacles effortlessly. Spiderbro goes where spiderbro wants). 

What might the future hold for Spiderfang? 

• Our own allegiance abilities? Why not? Seems like its a matter of when, not if. 
• New units to choose from? We don't even need new models, as the existing ones (e.g. the Arachnarok with catapult) could be made into new options. How cool would it be to lob blobs of sticky webs at our enemies and slow them down / blind them? 
• On the other hand it seems that GW see Spiderfang as nothing more than a decent ally choice, as the new box of re-based spiders suggest.
• The new Firestorm thing has Spiderfang as part of a new allegiance (additive with general Destruction allegiance it seems) which is cool, giving more (random) boosts to us.

Seems things are getting interesting, with more options, more tactics to consider, and therefore more FUN. Is there another force capable of this much movement and mortal wounds? And now with added toughness and defense! What other 2000 point army has the potential to have over 1500 legs scuttling over the battlefield? The future is bright, Spiderbros. 

[Nico]

Good summary.

The Rockeye doesn't work on a mount AFAIK.

The main buff will be the Spell on a block of Spiders - basically puts them up to Bloodletters damage output per 100 points (not including Bloodsecrator). It's swingy - 2 mortals on a 6 rather than 1 on a 5+.

[Sheriff]

3 minutes ago, Nico said:

Good summary.

The Rockeye doesn't work on a mount AFAIK.

The main buff will be the Spell on a block of Spiders - basically puts them up to Bloodletters damage output per 100 points (not including Bloodsecrator). It's swingy - 2 mortals on a 6 rather than 1 on a 5+.

Sucks about this mount rule

Yes the spider riders will be using both the arachnarok shaman buff (double the number of mortal wounds) as well as the general's buff (+1 to hit rolls). So 2 mortals on a 5+.  

[sal4m4nd3r]

Is the arachnarok really considered a mount? What if I just use the big spider.. no shaman, howdawh or webber??

 

Also,  what buffs does the moonclan shaman give?? I thought he just had the mushroom and the curse of da bad moon spell. 

Quote

And of course cheap-as-chips Moonclan Shamen for the buffs and yet more mortal wound

 

[sal4m4nd3r]

8 hours ago, Sheriff said:

And of course cheap-as-chips Moonclan Shamen for the buffs and yet more mortal wound

Also, What buffs are you referring to? What buffs does the moonclan shaman give to spiderfang?

[Sheriff]

52 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Also, What buffs are you referring to? What buffs does the moonclan shaman give to spiderfang?

I just mean mystic  shield. Sorry for confusion. 

[PlasticCraic]

7 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Is the arachnarok really considered a mount? What if I just use the big spider.. no shaman, howdawh or webber??

I'd wondered that...even with the hero on top, he literally has no attacks, so it seems very harsh on the Arachnarok to interpret it that way!

Hopefully it will be FAQ'd, but at the moment I'd say that RAW they are an unfortunate and unintended loser from the "no mounts unless specified" rule.

[Sheriff]

How does one go about getting an official response or faq to such queries? 

[sal4m4nd3r]

3 hours ago, Sheriff said:

How does one go about getting an official response or faq to such queries? 

I have had luck posting to them on FB. I have been directly responded to several times. But I dont think this needs a FAQ. If you look at the description of the Arachnarok..the unit IS the spider. He isnt a mount. It's not like the chaos lord on manticore where the lord is the model riding the manticore..even though the manticore dominates the model. Here the spider IS the model and can either be alone, accompanied by some bobos with a web shooter or a shaman. Thats my intrepertation anyway..

[Sheriff]

1 minute ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

I have had luck posting to them on FB. I have been directly responded to several times. But I dont think this needs a FAQ. If you look at the description of the Arachnarok..the unit IS the spider. He isnt a mount. It's not like the chaos lord on manticore where the lord is the model riding the manticore..even though the manticore dominates the model. Here the spider IS the model and can either be alone, accompanied by some bobos with a web shooter or a shaman. Thats my intrepertation anyway..

I know this, you know this, we all know this, but I bet all my Beast Realm dollars that some tournament ****** will kick up a fuss about this when it comes to scrapping. Sad!

You're right though, I will try and get clarity from GW somehow, and print the response!

[sal4m4nd3r]

Seems to me that rock lobbas would make good allies! Looks like that two right next to each other in the corner could be useful to trigger each others "load it again" ability. But I'm VERY VERY new to spiderfang. Just got my first couples boxes in from reddit/dakka swap threads. So I will be all over this thread going forward. 

[Sheriff]

1 hour ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Seems to me that rock lobbas would make good allies! Looks like that two right next to each other in the corner could be useful to trigger each others "load it again" ability. But I'm VERY VERY new to spiderfang. Just got my first couples boxes in from reddit/dakka swap threads. So I will be all over this thread going forward. 

Yeah I've considered artillery, and those will fit nicely into the new allegiance ability in Firestorm too. I just can't personally justify buying yet more models given my unpainted burden at present!

Glad to hear there are other spider bros out there!

(for the uninitiated, here is the original spiderbro:) 

 

[sal4m4nd3r]

2 hours ago, Sheriff said:

Yeah I've considered artillery, and those will fit nicely into the new allegiance ability in Firestorm too. I just can't personally justify buying yet more models given my unpainted burden at present!

Glad to hear there are other spider bros out there!

(for the uninitiated, here is the original spiderbro:) 

 

hahaha! Spiderbro is love. spiderbro is life. Do we know which firestorm abilities will affect destruction, or spiderfang in general?? I thought all the ones released were just order..? Also, I planned on converting some rock lobbas from left over flingers! Want to lob massive egg sacs at enemies that explode into a wave of spiderlings  ahaha

 

Question: In general is battle shock a problem I have to take into account? I get worried (coming from chaos and nurgle in particular) that the low bravery will decimate my ranks of spiderbros. 

[Sheriff]

54 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

hahaha! Spiderbro is love. spiderbro is life. Do we know which firestorm abilities will affect destruction, or spiderfang in general?? I thought all the ones released were just order..? Also, I planned on converting some rock lobbas from left over flingers! Want to lob massive egg sacs at enemies that explode into a wave of spiderlings  ahaha

 

Question: In general is battle shock a problem I have to take into account? I get worried (coming from chaos and nurgle in particular) that the low bravery will decimate my ranks of spiderbros. 

The new destruction allegiance in firestorm includes spiderbros, but only within moonclan, spiderfang, various orcs and goblins stuff. Gives you random awesome buffs. 

The other new allegiance abilities are not officially released but leaked. chaos get re-rollable charge, order get +1 to spell rolls. 

I'm new to the game so not a tactical master tbh. I think the best way to avoid battleshock catastrophies is bundling spiders into one blob of 30 models and buffing with inspiring presence when most needed. But what do i know! 

[Frankenfreund]

1 hour ago, Sheriff said:

The new destruction allegiance in firestorm includes spiderbros, but only within moonclan, spiderfang, various orcs and goblins stuff. Gives you random awesome buffs. 

Will they have point costs though? Like, will they be allowed for matched play?

 

[Sheriff]

3 minutes ago, Frankenfreund said:

Will they have point costs though? Like, will they be allowed for matched play?

 

I asked on facebook and GW confirmed yes you can use in matched play on top of regular destruction allegiance ability. 

Not heard anything about cost though - assume zero as usual. 

[Malakree]

52 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

I asked on facebook and GW confirmed yes you can use in matched play on top of regular destruction allegiance ability. 

Not heard anything about cost though - assume zero as usual. 

Good to know that GW continues with the SCE fanboing giving them 6 new allegiances to add on while a large chunk of destruction/death/chaos is randomly left without a second allegiance.

I can see Anvilguard being horrific to deal with.....

[Sheriff]

Just now, Malakree said:

I can see Anvilguard being horrific to deal with.....

Not against the power of the WAAAAAAGH!!!

[sal4m4nd3r]

So I will be playing my first game with spiderfangs this friday against a buddies Flesh eaters. Here is my list..

Grot Boss on Gigantic spider (what a crappy model btw)

-ravager

Arachnarok with Shamen

-rockeye

15 spider riders

15 spider riders. 

980/1000

 

Pretty basic.  But seems powerful!

[Sheriff]

Why not merge the spider riders into one unit of 30? could get in a small unit of allies with the spare points.. 

[Malakree]

2 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Why not merge the spider riders into one unit of 30? could get in a small unit of allies with the spare points.. 

2 battleline at 1k points. Doesn't generate the spare points required.

[Sheriff]

2 minutes ago, Malakree said:

2 battleline at 1k points. Doesn't generate the spare points required.

Ah of course. I'm used to using grots as battleline

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Sheriff said:

Ah of course. I'm used to using grots as battleline

I had literally the same thought when I first saw it, then I considered how he would get the 2nd battleline and was sad haha

[Planar]

On 9/26/2017 at 10:37 PM, sal4m4nd3r said:

Is the arachnarok really considered a mount? What if I just use the big spider.. no shaman, howdawh or webber??

Artefacts can be given only on HEROES. The only Arachnarok option with the HERO keyword is "ARACHNAROK SPIDER CARRYING SPIDERFANG GROTS AND SPIDERFANG GROT SHAMAN"

Therefore in this case you have a clear case of a rider and a mount.

I 'd love to use the Rockeye myself but it seems to me hard to persuade most opponents using the above reasoning.

I 'd be very interested to hear what GW replies to you though.

[sal4m4nd3r]

3 hours ago, Planar said:

Artefacts can be given only on HEROES. The only Arachnarok option with the HERO keyword is "ARACHNAROK SPIDER CARRYING SPIDERFANG GROTS AND SPIDERFANG GROT SHAMAN"

Therefore in this case you have a clear case of a rider and a mount.

I 'd love to use the Rockeye myself but it seems to me hard to persuade most opponents using the above reasoning.

I 'd be very interested to hear what GW replies to you though.

Well that is a good point. Still if you look at the description it says this is a single model. The next paragraph is where you have it saying sometimes they carry some bobo's into battle, or a spider shrine. Any other rider/mount situation never describes the mount as a "single model" like the arachnarok does, treating the "riders" as an option. 

Also, where does rockeye state it doesn't work for the mount?