Let`s chat: Anvilguard

[Kaleun]

4 hours ago, The Traitor said:

A friend is starting AoS with Anvilgard so I've been reading their rules and for what I've understood you can't take allies at all if you play a firestorm city as it specifically says that an army of "x city" can only have models from the following list of alliegances, and don't list any ally options, so right now you can't take Dark Raiders. You could ally aetherwings however as stormcasts are listed in the armies you can take with Anvilgard. That said I think the list, while solid, would be better if you had some chaff, maybe it's me coming from 40k, but screens are invaluable in my opinion, and in Anvilgard you should really benefit from having, well, an anvil , so that your faster units can surround the enemy while your infantry makes a frontal charge.

well we have a nice cheap chaff unit here:

Allegiance: Anvilguard
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- General
- Lance of Spite & Tyrant Shield
- Trait: Master of Defense
- Artefact: Quicksilver Potion
Ebondrake Master (320)
Dreadlord On Black Dragon
- Lance of Spite & Tyrant Shield
- Artefact: Talisman of Blinding Light
10 x Drakespawn Knights (320)
5 x Drakespawn Knights (160)
2 x Drakespawn Chariots (200)
3 x Aetherwings (60)
- Allies
40 x Black Ark Corsairs (260)
- Vicious Blades & Repeater Handbows
- Allies
War Hydra (200)
Ebondrake Warhost (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 320 / 400
Wounds: 128

The 40 Corsairs get inspired Presence or reroll their Battleshock test (Order All. ability). You could even try to wrap the whole 40 around an enemy unit to trigger the implacable march.
The implacable March might have interesting psychological effect on the enemy. The hydra is the second Anvil in this army list. It is quite hard to remove.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Kaleun

[The Traitor]

Yes, I like that list much better, corsairs are a great screening unit in big numbers, and being able to shoot as well as hit in CC makes them quite versatile.

[Kyriakin]

The idea of painting Corsairs as a "horde" - which the massive points decrease (i.e. 400 to 260 for a unit of 40) leans towards - makes me want to gouge my own eyes out.

They are not super detailed, but just contain so many different "elements" compared to the more monochromatic options in other factions.

EDIT: "decrease", obviously.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Kyriakin

[PaperStSoapCo]

Been playing around with this idea, using Ironbreakers as an Anvil and then encircling the enemy with the Vanguard Wing, relying on the Runelord to buff Ironbreakers, Executioners to take down Monsters, and the Excelsior Warpriest because it felt like a fluffyish 80 point General.  Any thoughts?

Allegiance: Anvilgard

Leaders
Sorceress (80)
Excelsior Warpriest (80) - General - Command Trait : Master of Defense - Artefact : Phoenix Stone
Runelord (80)

Units
30 x Ironbreakers (400)
10 x Executioners (180)
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100) - 1 x Stormsurge Tridents
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100) - 1 x Stormsurge Tridents
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100) - 1 x Stormsurge Tridents
5 x Judicators (160) -Skybolt Bows - 1 x Shockbolt Bows
30 x Liberators (520) -Warblade & Shield - 6 x Grandblades

Battalions
Vanguard Wing (200)

Total: 2000 / 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 Leaders: 3/6 Battlelines: 3 (3+) Behemoths: 0/4 Artillery: 0/4 Wounds: 143

[Double Misfire]

7 hours ago, PaperStSoapCo said:

Been playing around with this idea, using Ironbreakers as an Anvil and then encircling the enemy with the Vanguard Wing, relying on the Runelord to buff Ironbreakers, Executioners to take down Monsters, and the Excelsior Warpriest because it felt like a fluffyish 80 point General.  Any thoughts?

Allegiance: Anvilgard

Leaders
Sorceress (80)
Excelsior Warpriest (80) - General - Command Trait : Master of Defense - Artefact : Phoenix Stone
Runelord (80)

Units
30 x Ironbreakers (400)
10 x Executioners (180)
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100) - 1 x Stormsurge Tridents
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100) - 1 x Stormsurge Tridents
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100) - 1 x Stormsurge Tridents
5 x Judicators (160) -Skybolt Bows - 1 x Shockbolt Bows
30 x Liberators (520) -Warblade & Shield - 6 x Grandblades

Battalions
Vanguard Wing (200)

Total: 2000 / 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 Leaders: 3/6 Battlelines: 3 (3+) Behemoths: 0/4 Artillery: 0/4 Wounds: 143

Um, you've only got one battleline unit in there for matched play games, the Judicators and Executioners only become battleline if you've selected your army with Stormcast or Darkling Coven allegiance respectively...

Otherwise it looks like a pretty fun, flexible list. The Excelsior Warpriest is a bit useless (I'd consider switching him out for a Lord-Castellant to give the Liberators +2 save combined with mystic shield), but if you like him and want to use him, use him.

 

If anyone's been reguarly running Anvilgard, I'd be really interested to hear what your experiences using the allegiance so far are. I've been having a great time with Tempest's Eye since Firestorm came out.

I was looking at Anvilgard's rules again the other night and thinking about how well the Ebondrake Warhost battalion allowing units to charge in the hero phase could combine with Implacable March when used at the right moment. Has anybody had any success with this?

[PaperStSoapCo]

Right you are.  Stupid Warscroll builder fooling me by saying 3 Battlelines.  Let's try this instead:

Sorceress (80)
Runelord (80)
Lord-Castellant (100)

40 x Warriors (280) -Double-handed Duardin Axes & Shields - Runic Icon
10 x Freeguild Archers (100)
30 x Liberators (520) -Warblade & Shield - 6 x Grandblades
5 x Judicators (160) -Skybolt Bows - 1 x Shockbolt Bows
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100) - 1 x Stormsurge Tridents
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100) - 1 x Stormsurge Tridents
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100) - 1 x Stormsurge Tridents
10 x Executioners (180)

Vanguard Wing (200)

Total: 2000 / 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 Leaders: 3/6 Battlelines: 3 (3+) Behemoths: 0/4 Artillery: 0/4 Wounds: 164

[Double Misfire]

@PaperStSoapCo

Looks like a solid all comers list. I'd worry about Duality of Death and only having three rather squishy support heroes to capture objectives with a little - possibly worth swapping the executioners out for a Kharibdyss, or even dropping the archers for Freeguild Guard so you can take a War Hydra, giving you a nice meaty regenerating behemoth to sit on objectives.

As far as artefacts/traits go I'm thinking, Legendary Fighter and Relic Blade on the Castellant to make him into a surprising combat beast if you're ever forced to commit him, with a Phoenix Stone on slapped on your choice of support hero.

Tactics wise I'd go out of your way to concentrate all your Prosecutor and Judicator shooting on enemy monsters, as they're the only things that won't be affected (by the psychological an very real threat of) Implacable March, meaning your opponent won't have to be cautious with them.

[Nutty]

Hello Everyone,

I just started looking into AoS after having played Fantasy in 6th/7th and am trying to fit as much as my old collection (Dark Elves) into a legal army as possible, so that I have something to play with before investing.

Having sold of all my khainite units years ago I'm left with: Order Serpentis, Darkling Covens, Scourge Privateers, and a handful of other units. 

Would it be worth it to invest in the firestorm campaign so that I can field the majority of my units as a Anvilgard army? Or would I be better of to just stick with an army from one of the subfactions and use some allies?

 

[Kyriakin]

You wouldn't use Darkling Covens as Anvilguard, as they would lose their own allegiance abilities, command traits and unique artefacts.

[Double Misfire]

Hey @Nutty- welcome to TGA and AoS.  

The Firestorm campaign's a pretty sizeable investment and Anvilgard have a pretty fixed playstyle. I'd experiment with mixed Order lists featuring a blend of different Dark Elf units, and the Darkling Covens allegiance found in the latest General's Handbook first, and then think about moving on to Anvilgard if you like the playstyle of a mixed force featuring only the factions listed for it's allegiance.

If you're looking for rules and points values for any of the older Dark Elf units no longer available to buy from GW (beastmaster on manticore, bolt throwers, shades ect), they can all be found here on the GW website: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-dark-elves-en.pdf

 

@KyriakinNot true! Just because they've got their own set of  boutique allegiance abilities doesn't mean they're unusable as part of a mixed force. I use Dispossessed and Freeguild models in my Tempest's Eye army to fantastic success all the time and am planning on adding sizeable contingent of  Kharadron to it soon.

[Kyriakin]

Oh, I meant in terms of running DC as a faction, as opposed to SP or OS. Not mixed Order.

[Nutty]

@Double Misfire thanks for the quick response.  I have both the handbooks and the compendium and am pretty sure I now have warscrolls/points for all my units. The 5(?) Dark Elf subfactions that don't seem to interact with one an other have me puzzling though (but that's a subject for anothet topic) and I was kind of hoping for a more 'combined' Dark Elf faction under the Anvilgard rules.

 

[Double Misfire]

@Nutty No such thing as a combined faction I'm afraid, just standard Order allegiance with a rather tasty bonus special rule:

GW got a bit chop happy with Dark and High Elves when they were sorting armies into new factions, hopefully we'll see them folding some of the smaller factions like Shadowblades back in, or at least giving them a shared keyword in future.

 

It's pretty Khainite, but have you seen the new Shadow Queen teaser video yet?  

 

[Nutty]

@Double Misfire I did, it's about time Morathi got an update. The "current" model is a bit... outdated, and not in a good way. So I'm pretty excited where they take her.

The Order Alliance + sprinkles is what I was referring too: rather that going Order or Darkling Covens + Allies.. I could just stuff 80% of my collection into an 'anvilgard' army and be done with it. Bu since I would like to run some 'exile' units from the compendium I suppose it's going to be 'Order Allegiance' anyway.

[Kaleun]

1 hour ago, Nutty said:

@Double Misfire I did, it's about time Morathi got an update. The "current" model is a bit... outdated, and not in a good way. So I'm pretty excited where they take her.

The Order Alliance + sprinkles is what I was referring too: rather that going Order or Darkling Covens + Allies.. I could just stuff 80% of my collection into an 'anvilgard' army and be done with it. Bu since I would like to run some 'exile' units from the compendium I suppose it's going to be 'Order Allegiance' anyway.

-> newest trailer.
I see Morathi, Witch elves and something like a new Harpy in there.

 

Edited January 25, 2018 by Kaleun

[Guest]

What do you consider to be the best battleline option for Anvilgard? Very few of the options are particularly enticing from what I can see:

• Darkling Covens: Bleakswords, Darkshards, Dreadspears
• Dispossessed: Longbeards, Warriors
• Free Peoples: Freeguild Archers, Freeguild Crossbowmen, Freeguild Guard, Freeguild Handgunners
• Stormcast Eternals: Liberators

 

Of those I'd discount the Dispossessed units as being too slow to function effectively with the rest of a mixed Anvilgard army. Most of the Darkling Covens and Free Peoples battleline options are fine, but don't really stand out. I think the most useful options are probably Dreadspears, Freeguild Handgunners and Liberators.

Dreadspears have a 2" range, so if you take a horde of them as chaff you'll get in more attacks than any of the other choices and increase your chances of using the Anvilgard ability to push your opponent's units off objectives - you'll also increase your chances of swarming them and forcing your opponents to take off some models.

Freeguild Handgunners look interesting as they're the only battleline option I'm aware of that has rend, so I can see a gun line of these guys having a solid place in certain builds.

Liberators are good all rounders with two wounds each, so more survivable than most.

 

 

A final note: I'm seeing a lot of lists on this thread that don't include any of the above options. How does that work? How can people be taking things like Drakespawn Knights as battleline when they're listed as Order Serpentis Battleline and an Anvilgard army can't have Order Serpentis allegiance? Am I missing something?

[Double Misfire]

1 hour ago, Jamie the Jasper said:

A final note: I'm seeing a lot of lists on this thread that don't include any of the above options. How does that work? How can people be taking things like Drakespawn Knights as battleline when they're listed as Order Serpentis Battleline and an Anvilgard army can't have Order Serpentis allegiance? Am I missing something?

You can still select an army based on one allegiance and then choose to use it's grand alliance's allegiance abilities instead - for example using Beastclaw Raiders allegience to select your army using Mournfang battleline ect and then taking bog standard Destruction allegiance abilities instead of the ones in the Beastclaw book. The Firestorm errata states that when you "choose to use the Grand Alliance allegiance abilities instead of any others available to your army, it benefits from an additional City & Warlord allegiance ability".

A matched play army chosen using Order Serpentis allegiance will therefore still be using the basic Order grand alliance allegiance abilities, and so if  it hasn't disqualified itself by taking any allies not listed as Anvilgard factions, or any named units (they'd have to be allies too because Order Serpentis ain't got any!). Similarly a matched play army selected using Stormcast, Disposessed, Free People or Darkling Coven allegiance could also choose to use Order allegiance abilities instead of their boutique faction specific ones and still use the Anvilgard bonus allegiance abilities if it qualified (no named units or unlisted allies).

Pretty convoluted but hey, whoever said AoS was supposed to be simple!  

 

Incidentally I think Drakespawn Knights taken as part of an Ebondrake Warhost for a chance at charging in the hero phase and getting an extra Implacable March off are Anvilgard's best battleline. Closely followed by sneaky outflanking Vanguard Hunters in a Lord-Aquilor lead Stormcast allegiance selected force.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

You can still select an army based on one allegiance and then choose to use it's grand alliance's allegiance abilities instead - for example using Beastclaw Raiders allegience to select your army using Mournfang battleline ect and then taking bog standard Destruction allegiance abilities instead of the ones in the Beastclaw book. The Firestorm errata states that when you "choose to use the Grand Alliance allegiance abilities instead of any others available to your army, it benefits from an additional City & Warlord allegiance ability".

A matched play army chosen using Order Serpentis allegiance will therefore still be using the basic Order grand alliance allegiance abilities, and so if  it hasn't disqualified itself by taking any allies not listed as Anvilgard factions, or any named units (they'd have to be allies too because Order Serpentis ain't got any!). Similarly a matched play army selected using Stormcast, Disposessed, Free People or Darkling Coven allegiance could also choose to use Order allegiance abilities instead of their boutique faction specific ones and still use the Anvilgard bonus allegiance abilities if it qualified (no named units or unlisted allies).

Pretty convoluted but hey, whoever said AoS was supposed to be simple!  

 

Incidentally I think Drakespawn Knights taken as part of an Ebondrake Warhost for a chance at charging in the hero phase and getting an extra Implacable March off are Anvilgard's best battleline. Closely followed by sneaky outflanking Vanguard Hunters in a Lord-Aquilor lead Stormcast allegiance selected force.

But then you don't get access to the Anvilgard abilities. So what you're describing there is just a regular Mixed Order army, right?

[Double Misfire]

3 minutes ago, Jamie the Jasper said:

But then you don't get access to the Anvilgard abilities. So what you're describing there is just a regular Mixed Order army, right?

No, a matched play Order Serpentis army using the Order allegiance abilities (not like it has any other choice) containing only allied units with the Stormcast Eternals, Darkling Covens and Shadowblades keywords and no named (special character) warscrolls would qualify for the Anvilgard bonus allegiance.

No matter what allegiance you choose to select a matched play army with (for the purposes of allies, conditional battleline ect), you can always choose to use your grand alliance's default set of allegiance abilities instead of any others. Allegiance abilities and the allegiance chosen to select your army with in matched play are two separate things (and not particularly clearly explained in the current GHB).

The text in Firestorm and the updated errata states that if an army is organised to be from a specific city or under command of a specific warlord (contains only units with the keywords listed on the page for that city/warlord and contains no named characters) and uses the default allegiance abilities for it's grand alliance it qualifies for that city/warlord's additional allegiance abilities.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Double Misfire said:

No, a matched play Order Serpentis army using the Order allegiance abilities (not like it has any other choice) containing only allied units with the Stormcast Eternals, Darkling Covens and Shadowblades keywords and no named (special character) warscrolls would qualify for the Anvilgard bonus allegiance.

No matter what allegiance you choose to select a matched play army with (for the purposes of allies, conditional battleline ect), you can always choose to use your grand alliance's default set of allegiance abilities instead of any others. Allegiance abilities and the allegiance chosen to select your army with in matched play are two separate things (and not particularly clearly explained in the current GHB).

The text in Firestorm and the updated errata states that if an army is organised to be from a specific city or under command of a specific warlord (contains only units with the keywords listed on the page for that city/warlord and contains no named characters) and uses the default allegiance abilities for it's grand alliance it qualifies for that city/warlord's additional allegiance abilities.

Fair enough. That's not how I read it (at the very least it seems against the spirit of a Free Cities army to focus on one faction), but I defer to your wisdom.

For those (apparently very few) of us who choose to field a fully mixed Anvilgard army, I think my discussion topic is still of interest. What's your take on the basic battleline options available?

[Double Misfire]

26 minutes ago, Jamie the Jasper said:

Fair enough. That's not how I read it (at the very least it seems against the spirit of a Free Cities army to focus on one faction), but I defer to your wisdom.

For those (apparently very few) of us who choose to field a fully mixed Anvilgard army, I think my discussion topic is still of interest. What's your take on the basic battleline options available?

Of the units available as battleline in a fully mixed Anvilgard army I'd say Black Arc Corsiars narrowly edge out the Darkling Coven battleline choices. They've got a strong movement value, get you as many models/wounds for your points as any available battleline, and most importantly, like the Darkling Coven guys can be taken as part of a battalion which gives them an extra shot at charging and forcing an Implacable March.

An anvilgard army could even combine multiple formerly-known-as-Dark-Elf battalions with charge in the hero phase abilities to increase the chance that an enemy unit's crushed and wiped out by Implacable March.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

Of the units available as battleline in a fully mixed Anvilgard army I'd say Black Arc Corsiars narrowly edge out the Darkling Coven battleline choices. They've got a strong movement value, get you as many models/wounds for your points as any available battleline, and most importantly, like the Darkling Coven guys can be taken as part of a battalion which gives them an extra shot at charging and forcing an Implacable March.

An anvilgard army could even combine multiple formerly-known-as-Dark-Elf battalions with charge in the hero phase abilities to increase the chance that an enemy unit's crushed and wiped out by Implacable March.

One problem there - Corsairs are Scourge Privateers Battleline, not Order Battleline.

Any thoughts on the handgunners and liberators?

[Double Misfire]

Just now, Jamie the Jasper said:

One problem there - Corsairs are Scourge Privateers Battleline, not Order Battleline.

Any thoughts on the handgunners and liberators?

Whooops! My bad, sorry, very embaressed 

In that case I'd probably say the Darkling Covens guys when taken as part of a Thrall Warhost battalion (though it's probably the Executioners and Black Guard you'll be wanting to charge in the hero phase with.

 

Freeguild handgunners look like a bit of risky proposition as you won't be firing in the first turn if you go first with them in 4/6 matched play battleplans, and they'll need to be in a big unit and standing still (kind of tricky when you've got 30 models to get with 16" staying a reasonable distance from the enemy) to hit on 3s.

Handgunners' stand and shoot ability on their musician has the potential to be pretty amazing, and as a unit you don't commonly see I'm sure a lot of opponents would charge into them without thinking. Even against an opponent who'd faced them before, being able to stand and shoot with the entire unit could make for a pretty handy deterrent to a unit of Bloodletters, Skyfires or whatever that usually wouldn't think twice about charging a "soft" missile unit sat on an objective.

A Freeguild General leading your army's also a must take for these guys and makes them truly terrifying if you can get them into position. I've never played with or against Handgunners in AoS, there may be some gems on using them over in the Freeguild thread.

 

Liberators are... Liberators. They're pretty hard to shift, though low on numbers when it comes to taking objectives. Personally I'd take Dispossessed Warriors instead as they're 20 points cheaper for the same amount of wounds at about the same durability with shieldwall, about as fast with their musician bonus, do about as much damage when armed with great weapons, can be affordably buffed by a Runelord to do more damage or be harder to kill, and are most importantly dwarfs.

That said if you want to take Liberators there's not much difference and more power to you if you prefer the background/models. A Knight Heraldor's a good shout to speed them up and control the battlefield a bit more, and make sure to take some fast moving stuff to zip in behind enemy units that have charged them for a chance at wiping them out with Implacable March.

[Tali182]

First post on here so hello!

Been reading through this thread and lots of interesting stuff but as stated above very focused on Elves, which is fine and probably is the best use of Anvilguard, but i wanted to float my idea for something different, if not super competitive :

Allegiance: Order

Leaders

• Freeguild General On Griffon (260) - General
• Warden King (120)
• Runelord (80)

Battleline

• 10 x Longbeards (120)
• 5 x Liberators (100)
• 5 x Liberators (100)

Other

• 10 x Irondrakes (200)
• 9 x Demigryph Knights (480)
• 10 x Judicators (320)
•  3 x Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers (100)
• 3 x Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers (100)

Total: 1980 / 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 Leaders: 4/6 Battlelines: 3 (3+) Behemoths: 1/4 Artillery: 0/4 Wounds: 128

The idea with the list is the dwarfs are the home objective holder or can move up to mid objectives by second turn (would have to run first turn.  The longbeards allow the warden king to still use his command ability  meaning +1 to wound a target that is trying to take the objective combine this with the runelord give the irondrakes 16" 3+/2+/-2/1  to shoot and longbeards 4+/2+/-1/1 in combat, plus all the normal dwarf defensive stuff. 

Libs and judicators do their normal thing on another objective

everything else is what moves into the enemy territory.  Demies have +3 to charge with the command ability from the general , take the lances for charging and hope to use the extra charge distance to wrap units, sending in the prosecutors with their 3 dice charge to help with doing so if necessary

The Anvilgard ability is helpful in several ways:

• if irondrakes are charged have a chance of forcing retreat out of 3" so they can still shoot twice
• obviously if wrapping a unit can destroy them
• gives demis chance of getting to charge bonuses again.

Thoughts? Again not going for the best use of the Anvilguard more finding a use for it with models I am interested in.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Tali182 said:

Thoughts? Again not going for the best use of the Anvilguard more finding a use for it with models I am interested in.

 

I like it! As you say, a lot of people are going for aelf-heavy lists, so it's good to see something that makes interesting use of the free city theme and mixes factions together.

I have irondrakes in my army too. I've only played 2 games with them (both just 500 pts) - in the first they did a little damage but didn't quite justify their points, and in the second they absolutely ruined a unit of Stormvermin and were a big contributor to me tabling my opponent by turn 2. I have bigger games coming up over the next few weeks, and I have high hopes for them.

I'm also taking units of 5 Liberators as my battleline option, not for any tactical reason but because they're relatively cheap to pick up second-hand and also quick and easy to paint. The disadvantage is that they have a smaller footprint than other battleline options so we're not making the most of our Implacable March ability. Poor battleshock rolls can also wipe out the unit very quickly, I find.