2000 points gutbusters no allies pure ogres

[Bethorina]

So a casualish list for local games opinions would be great won't win the missions that require 20+ models,(have made a list for this :3) but this is ment for fluffy fun games

Leaders
Butcher (140)
Butcher (140)
Tyrant (160)
- General
- Great Gutgouger
- Trait: Bellowing Tyrant
- Artefact: Battle Brew

Battleline
9 x Ironguts (600)
- Gutbusters Battleline
12 x Ogors (400)
- Ogor Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
6 x Leadbelchers (280)
- Gutbusters Battleline
6 x Leadbelchers (280)
- Gutbusters Battleline

Total: 2000/2000
 

[someone2040]

So I think the issue you'll have won't necessarily be in games that require 20+ models auto-winning objectives, but rather in games which have a lot of objectives. In particular Scorched Earth, but you could have trouble on some of the others as well.

This ultimately comes down to how many independent units you have. Your army only has 7 units. So in a battleplan like Scorched Earth, where you need to defend 3 and jockey for your opponents 3, you don't have many options in units that can contest the enemy. 

Of course, any elite army will have this issue, but it can be mitigated by splitting some of your units into smaller units.

[Bethorina]

I can see what you mean etc but depending on the type of army you play against you can screen your objectives so they have to fight your Army to get to them etc and you send the ironguts to to go cripple their objectives cause a unit of 9 is quite scary but any army can win in sigmar I just want a pure ogre list fun games and casual events

[Chris Tomlin]

@Bethorina - I think @someone2040 is right. Even just splitting down the basic Ogors into 2x 6 would help IMO. What's the thinking behind that larger unit? Have you considered adding some Maneaters, they are pretty good.

I recently bought back one of my old WFB Ogre Kingdoms armies and have started the process of rebasing so am intrigued to see lists like this. Have you played any games yet?

I kinda feel that just going mixed Destruction is the way to go with Ogors, otherwise you are really restricted with allies (I appreciate this doesn't matter to you as you want pure Gutbusters, just thinking out loud). Personally I'd like my army to look like an old WFB one with a Stonehorn, Mournfang, Maneaters etc all mixed in with Ogors, Ironguts etc.

[Bethorina]

I have got my mixed list done already using gitmob Grots and shamans and giants the issue with splitting them down is I would then have to make 80pts up somewhere as I currently got the horde reduction which is alot as they are 480 for 2 units or 400 for one reason for the bigger unit is they will be a distraction unit hopefully getting the rampaging destroyers roll from my  general and to be used for ironguts and leadbelchers to setup the next turn and and 80 pts to find is a little difficult cause what would you cut I'm playing a few games this week so can let you know how they went etc @Chris Tomlin

[Bethorina]

I did have one smaller game using a tyrant a Butcher and 2 units of Ogors one unit of 12 one unit of 9 and one aleguzzler giant and it was only 1250*pts but it smashed its way through a free people's list and won on objectives and tabled as well as the bigger units just didn't fall cause by the time the unit of 12 got up the board after 4 rounds (including overwatch shenanigans) of shooting from 20 hand gunners only 5 died from 12 @Chris Tomlinand hope this helps

[ChippyRick]

17 hours ago, Bethorina said:

So a casualish list for local games opinions would be great won't win the missions that require 20+ models,(have made a list for this :3) but this is ment for fluffy fun games

Leaders
Butcher (140)
Butcher (140)
Tyrant (160)
- General
- Great Gutgouger
- Trait: Bellowing Tyrant
- Artefact: Battle Brew

Battleline
9 x Ironguts (600)
- Gutbusters Battleline
12 x Ogors (400)
- Ogor Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
6 x Leadbelchers (280)
- Gutbusters Battleline
6 x Leadbelchers (280)
- Gutbusters Battleline

Total: 2000/2000
 

Cool list but i do agree with the above comments also.

Although, i do like and think the 12 ogres are a good shout. Maybe consider dropping 6 leadbelchers and use the points elsewhere?

Something like this posssibly:

Leaders
Butcher (140)
Butcher (140)
Tyrant (160)
- General
- Great Gutgouger
- Trait: Bellowing Tyrant
- Artefact: Battle Brew

Battleline
9 x Ironguts (600)
- Gutbusters Battleline
12 x Ogors (400)
- Ogor Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
6 x Leadbelchers (280)
- Gutbusters Battleline

20 x Grots (100)

20 x Grots (100)

1 x Gorger (60)

Total: 1980/2000

The grots offer bodies for screening, board space and objectives. With the last 80 youcould look at many options for allies (heroes etc or cheap units like sabertusks) but the Gorger is a decent unit for the points. It can come on any table edge so gives your opponent something to think about when deploying. It is 12" away from the enemy so tough for first turn charges but still great for potential objective claiming whlist the ogres catch up

[Bethorina]

10 minutes ago, ChippyRick said:

Cool list but i do agree with the above comments also.

Although, i do like and think the 12 ogres are a good shout. Maybe consider dropping 6 leadbelchers and use the points elsewhere?

Something like this posssibly:

Leaders
Butcher (140)
Butcher (140)
Tyrant (160)
- General
- Great Gutgouger
- Trait: Bellowing Tyrant
- Artefact: Battle Brew

Battleline
9 x Ironguts (600)
- Gutbusters Battleline
12 x Ogors (400)
- Ogor Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
6 x Leadbelchers (280)
- Gutbusters Battleline

20 x Grots (100)

20 x Grots (100)

1 x Gorger (60)

Total: 1980/2000

The grots offer bodies for screening, board space and objectives. With the last 80 youcould look at many options for allies (heroes etc or cheap units like sabertusks) but the Gorger is a decent unit for the points. It can come on any table edge so gives your opponent something to think about when deploying. It is 12" away from the enemy so tough for first turn charges but still great for potential objective claiming whlist the ogres catch up

Thanks for the feedback I have the initial list but when I have the spare grots I'll give this a go as that is all I'm missing and plus it will still be pure gutbusters :3 thanks @ChippyRick

Glad you approve of the big ogre unit  also could possibly drop 3 ironguts over 6 leadbelchers and then just take the grots :3

[ChippyRick]

10 minutes ago, Bethorina said:

Glad you approve of the big ogre unit  also could possibly drop 3 ironguts over 6 leadbelchers and then just take the grots :3

Also a good option. I think I like the 9 Ironguts as I have used 6 many times but that was in a list with BCR monsters so they were not always the number 1 target. In this list I think they may be, so having a few extra initially might help out. 6 still works though and the hurt they can deal is great.

[Bethorina]

Can try it both ways and will be putting some bat raps up and how it faired (the initial list with just ogres) 

[Malakree]

Question regarding the "no allies just Ogors" does that include things like the Firebelly which really should be a Gutbuster but for some reason isn't, one or two of those could really spice up the list and add some fire to your magical abilities!

I'm also definitely in favour of the 12 man Ogor unit for a few reasons.

1. Points cost, 9 is 360 while 12 is 400. That means you are getting 3 Ogors for 40 points. 
2. Condenses activation's, this is actually quite important, it means you attack with all 12 in one go rather than having to activate twice and potentially suffer for it.
3. Inspiring presence hit all 12 rather than only half of them, when you've only got bravery 6 that's pretty important.
4. Mystic Shield, because you check for your Iron Fists after all modifiers rend would nullify the mortal wound, if there's no rend you are returning a mortal wound on a 5+
5. Centrepiece, Specifically this is to do with how you line out on a field. The big block of Ogors forms an amazing unit for the rest of your army to operate around.
6. Resilience, I've been noticing with my Ardboyz that the two units of 10 just become worthless after a couple of casualties each, where as going from 20->14 is still a horrifically dangerous unit.

For a lot of the reasons I'm in favour of the massive bonus for Ogors I'd say it's doubly important for Grots. Gnoblars get an extra attack at 20 models or two extra at 30 models. Two units of 20 are making 80 attacks while a unit of 40 is making 120 attacks! They also hold massive unit objectives way longer, are a much bigger road block and generally take up more table space as a unit. The extra 20, going to 60 total, then become 70pts rather than 100pts and bring the unit up to 180 of the most terrible ranged attack ever !!!!

Lastly I looked at the Gorgers and I just don't like them. Sure they are cheapish filler but the models are expensive $$ and even with the wounds they have no armour save to protect them when forced to deep strike then attempt a 12" charge. I'd honestly try to be a little less cost efficient elsewhere to spend those 60 points than take it. As an example, in @ChippyRick list, drop the Gorgers mash the two units of Grots into one unit then take the extra 20 Gnoblars for 10 points more. You still have 10pts spare for the triumph roll but now your Grots are a block of 60 and you don't have the disposable 5 wounds for your opponent to turn 1 charge and mash while you womble over the board.

[Chris Tomlin]

1 hour ago, Bethorina said:

the issue with splitting them down is I would then have to make 80pts up somewhere as I currently got the horde reduction which is alot

Ooops, my mistake. Completely overlooked the fact they are a Massive Regiment. In that case; crack on! (and I may have to give it a go myself, they look good value!)

[Chris Tomlin]

14 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Mystic Shield, because you check for your Iron Fists after all modifiers rend would nullify the mortal wound, if there's no rend you are returning a mortal wound on a 5+

This isn't quite right. If you have Mystic Shield on you still do the mortal wound on a 6+.

You are correct that you check after all modifiers, but note that Mystic Shield is +1  to your save rolls and not a flat +1 save (ie also a modifier). So you both add and subtract 1 from your rolls when suffering a rend -1 attack whilst under the effects of Mystic Shield; this results in a roll of a 6 remaining a 6.

Hope this makes sense and helps.

[Bethorina]

9 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Ooops, my mistake. Completely overlooked the fact they are a Massive Regiment. In that case; crack on! (and I may have to give it a go myself, they look good value!)

Don't worry bae @Chris Tomlinand I will crack on haha look for reports this week

[Bethorina]

12 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

This isn't quite right. If you have Mystic Shield on you still do the mortal wound on a 6+.

You are correct that you check after all modifiers, but note that Mystic Shield is +1  to your save rolls and not a flat +1 save (ie also a modifier). So you both add and subtract 1 from your rolls when suffering a rend -1 attack whilst under the effects of Mystic Shield; this results in a roll of a 6 remaining a 6.

Hope this makes sense and helps.

Also i have gone for double clubs with my ogres @Malakreecause once that big unit is in combat they should smash the unit to pieces and the reroll of one's is quite important when your throwing 36 atks into a unit the rerolls should generate 3-5 more hits depending on if I got Butcher +1 to hit off @Chris Tomlin

[Malakree]

13 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

This isn't quite right. If you have Mystic Shield on you still do the mortal wound on a 6+.

You are correct that you check after all modifiers, but note that Mystic Shield is +1  to your save rolls and not a flat +1 save (ie also a modifier). So you both add and subtract 1 from your rolls when suffering a rend -1 attack whilst under the effects of Mystic Shield; this results in a roll of a 6 remaining a 6.

Hope this makes sense and helps.

Sorry, I meant if you are against a no rend attack with mystic shield on then its 5+
If you are against a -1 Rend with no Mystic shield then you can't reflect the wound.

7 minutes ago, Bethorina said:

Also i have gone for double clubs with my ogres @Malakreecause once that big unit is in combat they should smash the unit to pieces and the reroll of one's is quite important when your throwing 36 atks into a unit the rerolls should generate 3-5 more hits depending on if I got Butcher +1 to hit off 

Aye, I faced someone who was doing 2+ rerolling 1s, was nasty as hell.

[Bethorina]

2 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Sorry, I meant if you are against a no rend attack with mystic shield on then its 5+
If you are against a -1 Rend with no Mystic shield then you can't reflect the wound.

Aye, I faced someone who was doing 2+ rerolling 1s, was nasty as hell.

You do realise that buffs can't stack no more right

[Chris Tomlin]

7 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Sorry, I meant if you are against a no rend attack with mystic shield on then its 5+
If you are against a -1 Rend with no Mystic shield then you can't reflect the wound.

Correct

[Malakree]

14 minutes ago, Bethorina said:

You do realise that buffs can't stack no more right

I think it was vs stormcast but it really hammered home how good the rerolls are. It's the one thing that would tempt me to run Footbosses with my brutes....

[ChippyRick]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Lastly I looked at the Gorgers and I just don't like them. Sure they are cheapish filler but the models are expensive $$ and even with the wounds they have no armour save to protect them when forced to deep strike then attempt a 12" charge. I'd honestly try to be a little less cost efficient elsewhere to spend those 60 points than take it. As an example, in @ChippyRick list, drop the Gorgers mash the two units of Grots into one unit then take the extra 20 Gnoblars for 10 points more. You still have 10pts spare for the triumph roll but now your Grots are a block of 60 and you don't have the disposable 5 wounds for your opponent to turn 1 charge and mash while you womble over the board.

It definitely isnt a first choice unit, completely agree there. But people understimate how worth while these are. As i mentioned, just being able to make your opponent consider thier deployment and go over defensive with units to protect key buff heroes / warmachines can sometimes be enough. Put them on the back foot or consider breakinf from the normal deployment. When your against it do you risk the gamble or not, if that 12" comes off it could ruin many plans.

But outside of this, just being able to bloack board space (drop armies / formations / trees being summoned to name a few), claim objectives that are initally out of reach for your force and potentially stopping other units that try to come on table edges but then have to be out of 9" (most common) can all really help your control of the board and game. Also, if you go second and then get a double turn you have his movement etc to use then as well before he is hit back, so may have done the task for  you by then anyway.

He isnt a world beater but he offers more than some people think initially. 

[Chris Tomlin]

6 minutes ago, ChippyRick said:

But outside of this, just being able to bloack board space (drop armies / formations / trees being summoned to name a few), claim objectives that are initally out of reach for your force and potentially stopping other units that try to come on table edges but then have to be out of 9" (most common) can all really help your control of the board and game. Also, if you go second and then get a double turn you have his movement etc to use then as well before he is hit back, so may have done the task for  you by then anyway.

He isnt a world beater but he offers more than some people think initially. 

I agree with this. I definitely planned on including one in my army for these kind of reasons. Offers a nice utility. Arguably dipping into Beastclaw Raiders for a Skal may be better, but it's pricier.

Also I already have a Gorger painted!  

Enjoying the Ogor chat! I really need to finish the rebasing project and get them to an event. Bit of a gutter they can't ally with Ironjawz though tbh.

[Bethorina]

15 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

I agree with this. I definitely planned on including one in my army for these kind of reasons. Offers a nice utility. Arguably dipping into Beastclaw Raiders for a Skal may be better, but it's pricier.

Also I already have a Gorger painted!  

Enjoying the Ogor chat! I really need to finish the rebasing project and get them to an event. Bit of a gutter they can't ally with Ironjawz though tbh.

Will defo give it a try as I have the one gorger aswell however I am also on with the same task got 25 round 40mm bases on the way and will be doing this all week haha @Chris Tomlin

[sirflukesalot]

i have went a different route with mine it seems,

i went down a grots and artillery route,

dropped the ironguts 

second set of leadbelchers

2x gorgers for deployment shenannigans

2x ironblasters (they have the ogor keyword so can be butcher buffed)

a single 40 grot blob

 all my bases are in the post lol still have to paint em all for B'n'G in Nov lol

[Bethorina]

13 hours ago, sirflukesalot said:

i have went a different route with mine it seems,

i went down a grots and artillery route,

dropped the ironguts 

second set of leadbelchers

2x gorgers for deployment shenannigans

2x ironblasters (they have the ogor keyword so can be butcher buffed)

a single 40 grot blob

 all my bases are in the post lol still have to paint em all for B'n'G in Nov lol

The ironguts are pretty tanks and will get focused on however the ogres in a blob won't which are just as bad and I feel 12 leadbelchers is enough and I would rather buff my guys then the artillery as previously stated I have done a mix list and just don't rate the gutbusters in terms of shooting would rather have doom divers 

[Lardidar]

I know you want pure but how about..

Allegiance: Gutbusters
Tyrant (160) - For face smashing
Butcher (140)
Butcher (140) - Mage bro's
12 x Ogors (400) - Nice slab o'meat
6 x Leadbelchers (280) - 
3 x Ironguts (200) - A bit poo in a 3 but maybe sit around behind grot wall to add a little punch
60 x Grots (270) - '180' green bottles thrown in your face!
1 x Gorgers (60) - Move shenanigans ... Kill me now or your wizard/ catapult is getting gorged, while killing me you are not killing ogres! 

Aleguzzler Gargant (170)
Aleguzzler Gargant (170) - Because...drunk giants! 

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 340 / 400