Archaon Khorne List

[tolstedt]

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)
Bloodstoker (80)
Bloodsecrator (120)
Archaon (700)
- General

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (270)
3 x Varanguard (300)
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)

Total: 1990/ 2000

Every hero phase activate Archaon's command ability.  Hit Archaon with the Lord on Juggernaut's ability.  If you have one blood tithe, you can do this twice.  If your opponent gets the double turn and you have blood tithe both times, you can do it four times, meaning Archaon has a 90% chance of auto-killing any hero or monster he swings at with the Slayer of Kings.

Varangaurd can wreck anything if buffed.  This list will revolve around them making their perfect charge to destroy what needs to be destroyed.

Marauders for bubble wrapping and taking up space.  Horsemen for the speed to put on pressure.  Bloodsecrator to buff everyone.  The bloodsecrator is essential to avoid battleshock on the low bravery units.  Archaon's crown can help with this as well, but the range is only 10".

I'm undecided on the artifact.

Other options:

Another possibility is to swap out the bloodletters and add more bodies (marauders or horsemen or warriors) and a Sorcerer Lord.  The Sorcerer Lord ability to give two units a re-rollable save might make him worth it.  Archaon on 2+ re-rollable with 5+ against mortal wounds and 4+ against spells may worth it.

Other things I wanted to try was to take out the aspiring deathbringer.  He has to stay so close to get his command ability off, but the ability can stack if you use blood tithe.

Should I keep the bloodstoker?  

I'm also considering adding wrathmongers.  I like them as a tactical tool.  You can place them in an area to repel monsters.

Archaon is almost done being painted.  Varangaurd are next, and hopefully this thread will help me decide what's next to buy.  I think this will be a fun list.

Also, some prophylaxis:  I am not interested in running Archaon Tzeentch allegiance though I understand how good it can be.

[Ryan Taylor]

Firstly this cannot be Allegiance Khorne with the Varanguard in the army. They do not get the mark until the game starts and you pick allegiences before the battle. Other than that I think that Archaon in a Khorne list is super solid. 

[Nico]

It's fine - the Varanguard are allies.

[Ryan Taylor]

Khorne I do not think can take allies but I know that is an opinion that is not widely shared by all. Blades of Khorne can but you have 3 different factions in this list. 

 

[Killax]

I think the list is cool but yeah as mentioned due to how vague the current wording is on Factions  and Allies in combination with Allegiances (and how Factions and Allegiances do not match up) your better off discussing this with your opponent.

As Ryan Taylor said, officially Khorne is not a Faction and because the Faction isn't mentioned in GH2017 it technically does not have Allies to begin with. The same applies for Tzeentch, Slaanesh and Nurgle right now. So in that case you can choose to use Chaos, the Faction Allegiance (which works fine for Slaves to Darkness for example) or simply discuss it with your local game area. 

Hopefully GW will come back on this and clear up their intend and design. The issue comes from Factions not being Keyword related and therefor not in line with Allegiances in many cases.

[tolstedt]

57 minutes ago, Ryan Taylor said:

Khorne I do not think can take allies but I know that is an opinion that is not widely shared by all. Blades of Khorne can but you have 3 different factions in this list. 

 

Let's keep this nonsense in the other thread.  I'd like to talk about the Archaon list here.

As @Nico said the Varangaurd are allies.  If an errata comes out and changes it I will have to change the list.  But it's quite clear to me that this is how Varangaurd were intended to be used, as a meaty cav support to any chaos army.  (Rats too?  Not sure, I've never looked.)

Any thoughts on the list?  Strategy?  Tactics?

[Killax]

2 minutes ago, tolstedt said:

Let's keep this nonsense in the other thread.  I'd like to talk about the Archaon list here.

As @Nico said the Varangaurd are allies.  If an errata comes out and changes it I will have to change the list.  But it's quite clear to me that this is how Varangaurd were intended to be used, as a meaty cav support to any chaos army.  (Rats too?  Not sure, I've never looked.)

Any thoughts on the list?  Strategy?  Tactics?

I really don't know how you came to the conclusion that it would be nonsence.
Because I'd like to know what you'd use as the basis of your Faction, is it Everchosen? If this is the case you can only use Batteline choices from that Faction. If your just using Khorne as your Allegiance we don't know which Factions are allied to it. If you'd say Blades of Khorne is the Faction (and Allies) Archaon can't be your General...

I'm fine with you using GH2016 Allegiance rules and ignoring GH2017's Faction and Allies rules but I would still discuss this with your opponent and not dispute it as nonsence.

The list itself could work decently well if you manage to come against other Monster Generals aswell as Archaon does a great job in hunting down single pieces like that. With the bonus from the Mighty Lord of Khorne he's also fully capable of handling himself against massed units. The downside however to it remains that otherwise a lot of the power seems to come forth out of Bloodletters but they don't have a ton of support (other than Archaon) in the list. 

In general I think you'll have fun with this list and that seems to be the objective anyway. Just make sure your opponent is aware of what your doing as per GH2017 your army can't technically be called legal for several reasons.

[Nico]

It is wrong to suggest that a Nighthaunt army cannot have a Mourngul in it as the Mourngul isn't listed in the GHB 2017. Ditto the highlighted ally option the Rogue Idol who isn't listed either. The GHB lists aren't closed and being in an allegiance/faction must be primarily dependent on keywords -in this case Khorne. Archaon has that so you're good to go. Archaon will synergise well with Khorne buffs like the free move Blood Tithe ability and the extra attacks. I don't rate Marauder cav outside of Tzeentch. I would take Blood Warriors or even a bigger unit of Marauders instead.

[Killax]

2 minutes ago, Nico said:

It is wrong to suggest that a Nighthaunt army cannot have a Mourngul in it as the Mourngul isn't listed in the GHB 2017. Ditto the highlighted ally option the Rogue Idol who isn't listed either.

The GHB lists aren't closed and being in an allegiance/faction must be primarily dependent on keywords -in this case Khorne. Archaon has that so you're good to go. Archaon will synergise well with Khorne buffs like the free move Blood Tithe ability and the extra attacks. I don't rate Marauder cav outside of Tzeentch. I would take Blood Warriors or even a bigger unit of Marauders instead.

This topic has nothing to do with either Nighthaunt or Mournguls.

The GH2017 is clear on Pitched Battle Profiles and the use for them, it's also suggesting that some Factions have allies and some do not.
In this case we have Khorne not being listed as a Faction so without informing your opponent I would not simply assume one can add Allies.
I am currently under the impression that Vanguard are used as Allies, while we cannot confirm Allegiance Khorne allows for it.

So again, feel free to use the list but inform your opponent beforehand. 

[tolstedt]

Nonsense is used here dramatically.  There is a ten page thread talking circles and I do not want to replicate it here.  I'd like in this thread to talk about the army.  Strategy and tactics.

I'm not cheesing and the intent of Varangaurd as allies to any of the chaos factions seems clear.

36 minutes ago, Nico said:

Archaon will synergise well with Khorne buffs like the free move Blood Tithe ability and the extra attacks. I don't rate Marauder cav outside of Tzeentch. I would take Blood Warriors or even a bigger unit of Marauders instead.

I intend to use the blood tithe for command abilities and moves.  It gives some tactical flexibility and makes your opponent really think about the things that they kill.
I really like the 12" move on the Marauders.  I like to throw them into a unit that is in travel to slow them down for a turn.   More blood tithe as well.
What would you swap to get Blood Warriors?  The cav?  Any opinions on Wrathmongers?  Is the bloodstoker a must in the list?  How about the Sorceror Lord?  The more I consider the sorcerer lord the better he seems!  
Are the bloodletters a liability without a huge movement buff?

The only thing I regret is not having enough points for the Gaunt Summoner.  He would complete the tactical toolbox of this list!  I prefer blood to magic however.

[Nico]

Yes the Sorc Lord would buff and protect Archaon a great deal with Daemonic Power.

[Ryan Taylor]

If you want to go mixed chaos the sorcerer lord is a great addition. 

 

The bloodletters lose a fair bit by not being able to get across the board but bloodtithe could help that. 

Outside of archaon and the varanguard everything else is pretty squishy. 

I feel this list would struggle a little with some scenarios. Those that can take down archaon will be able to neuter this list pretty badly. 

[tolstedt]

The sorcerer lord is the hard decision. Not sure if he or blood tithe is better.

I'd probably take the gaunt summoner as well if going GA chaos.

I'll try with some proxies and if archaon is dying all the time it may mean sorcerer lord is the way to go.

[Louzi]

4 hours ago, Killax said:

This topic has nothing to do with either Nighthaunt or Mournguls.

The GH2017 is clear on Pitched Battle Profiles and the use for them, it's also suggesting that some Factions have allies and some do not.
In this case we have Khorne not being listed as a Faction so without informing your opponent I would not simply assume one can add Allies.
I am currently under the impression that Vanguard are used as Allies, while we cannot confirm Allegiance Khorne allows for it.

So again, feel free to use the list but inform your opponent beforehand. 

It is nonsense and I would wish, if we wouldnt need to discuss this in every topic. GW will clarify this as they did with the Bloodsecrator, because people are not able to read the rules with common sense.

Back to topic:

Aspiring Deathbringer is a bad choice in a Archaon/Varanguard list. I would go for the charge and maximize the benefits of it (take Juggerlord, Mighty lord, Bloodstoker and Valkia!). Or you go for Gorepilgrims and take the heal prayers to heal Archaon all the time with 2-3 Priests at his side.

I would never go without 10 Blood Warriors (one of the best battline in the game) and a Bloodsecretor. The rest is up to you.

 

[Louzi]

2 hours ago, tolstedt said:

The sorcerer lord is the hard decision. Not sure if he or blood tithe is better.

I'd probably take the gaunt summoner as well if going GA chaos.

I'll try with some proxies and if archaon is dying all the time it may mean sorcerer lord is the way to go.

Nah. The cool thing is, that with Archaon and 3 Varanguards you can build an army list for all 4 other chaos gods and thats rly cool! Battle traits > Sorcerer Lord. It is a shame they increased the cost of the Gaunt Summoner. Otherwise you could have picked Varnaguard AND GS for every list...

[tolstedt]

4 minutes ago, Louzi said:

Nah. The cool thing is, that with Archaon and 3 Varanguards you can build an army list for all 4 other chaos gods and thats rly cool! Battle traits > Sorcerer Lord. It is a shame they increased the cost of the Gaunt Summoner. Otherwise you could have picked Varnaguard AND GS for every list...

Yeah dude I wish GS was 100 (for my list).  But his spell is very strong as is.

 

6 minutes ago, Louzi said:

Aspiring Deathbringer is a bad choice in a Archaon/Varanguard list. I would go for the charge and maximize the benefits of it (take Juggerlord, Mighty lord, Bloodstoker and Valkia!). Or you go for Gorepilgrims and take the heal prayers to heal Archaon all the time with 2-3 Priests at his side.

I would never go without 10 Blood Warriors (one of the best battline in the game) and a Bloodsecretor. The rest is up to you.

 

I was also thinking the deathbringer is a liability and may never even get his ability off.  I don't like to have to rely on such short ranges as well.

I'll look into blood warriors.  

I've got lots of essays to finish tonight, but I'll write some new lists when I'm done.  Thanks for the feedback.

[Tizianolol]

Blades of khorn got everchosen as ally, so why not varanguards as ally? And about archaon, he got keyword khorne , so it can be your general. Khorne is khorne bloodbound+demons the key is the mark! Everything with khorne marke is blade of khorne I think!

[Tizianolol]

What about that?

archaon 700

mighty lord of kh 140

aspiring deathb 80

30 blood war 520

2x10 reavers 140

5 flesh hounds 100

3 varanguards 300 ( ally)

1980

+1 attacks and 3 d6 pick higher during charge  and Mlok can have access on 1 artifact to be more killy!

[Louzi]

I dont know man. I think full healing on Archie could be rly good and I am no big fan of 30 BW...

I am currently playing this:

Archie and 3 Varanguard (Ally) 1000 points and:

Leaders
Bloodsecrator (120)
Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)
Bloodstoker (80)

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades

Units
1 x Chaos Warshrine (180)

Total: 1000/2000

 

[Louzi]

But I think that Gorepilgrims is best with Archie, because of the 2 healing Priests...

[tolstedt]

14 minutes ago, Louzi said:

I dont know man. I think full healing on Archie could be rly good and I am no big fan of 30 BW...

I am currently playing this:

Archie and 3 Varanguard (Ally) 1000 points and:

Leaders
Bloodsecrator (120)
Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)
Bloodstoker (80)

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades

Units
1 x Chaos Warshrine (180)

Total: 1000/2000

 

I'm into this one.  I wouldn't take the Warshrine, I prefer to put more MSU of bodies out.
How's this one go for you?

[tolstedt]

13 minutes ago, Louzi said:

But I think that Gorepilgrims is best with Archie, because of the 2 healing Priests...

I'll proxy this one as well for a few games.
What's the range on the prayers?
They can heal the Varangaurd as well if one gets knocked down to a wound or two.

 

2 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

What about that?

archaon 700

mighty lord of kh 140

aspiring deathb 80

30 blood war 520

2x10 reavers 140

5 flesh hounds 100

3 varanguards 300 ( ally)

1980

+1 attacks and 3 d6 pick higher during charge  and Mlok can have access on 1 artifact to be more killy!

This is cool, but Varangaurd already re-roll charges, and they are my big hammer.  The strat will involve getting a great charge off the varangaurd.
But the lord on jugger is essential to my list to buff archaon's slayer of kings. 

My Archaon's sword is painted glowing brightly to be the centerpiece of the army.

If anyone is interested I ran math on Slayer of kings and it's about 35% chance to instakill with +1 to wound if 4/5 attacks hit.  
At +2 to wound it's about 11/16 to instakill if 4/5 attacks hit.

[Tizianolol]

If makes sense, what about run a brasa stampade battalion? Something like that

archa

mlon jugg 

3x10 Marauders 

3 varanguards

3x3 mighty skullcrushers 

brass

1950

[tolstedt]

9 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

If makes sense, what about run a brasa stampade battalion? Something like that

archa

mlon jugg 

3x10 Marauders 

3 varanguards

3x3 mighty skullcrushers 

brass

1950

I would totally run this for fun in a friendly game because an all mounted army would be awesome, but it lacks the bloodsecrator, and you only get one artifact, and the battalion only gets one of its abilities, and there's no chaff to protect units.

*redacted, my mistake*

[Tizianolol]

I got 3 unit of marauder for battleline, anyway what about varanguards? What weapon you prefer? I think with the once per battle 2 pile and plus 1 to hit from archa, Are sperare better?