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Paul Conti

Order All-Stars - Building a Mixed Order Force

11 posts in this topic

Paul Conti    40

So the thread on Bretonia got me thinking about what a mixed Order force might look like. There are so many units that stand so strongly on their own that I feel like an Order All-Star force might be formidable. I'm not that well versed in all of the different factions, so this one is definitely a group effort...

Some Starter Thoughts for Contenders:

Bretonnian Lord on a Pegasus
Grail Knights
Trebuchet
Phoenix Guard
Freeguild Guard with Sword & Shield for battleline (IMHO best order value battleline for min/max)
Celestial Hurricanum
2x Cannon w/ Gunsmith
 

Let's add to the list! Who are the Order All-Stars?

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From the factions that I know the standout standalone units I'd say are: 

Judicators with Skybolt Bows & Shockbolt Bow Prime

Dracothian Guard Concussors/Fulminators/Tempestors

Vanguard Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows

Drycha Hamadreth

Kurnoth Hunters with Greatbows

 

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chord    355

I think determine the best generic battle line units for this army will be key.

liberators? reavers?

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Thostos    31
33 minutes ago, chord said:

I think determine the best generic battle line units for this army will be key.

liberators? reavers?

Skinks,,3x 40 strong...

 

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MrCharisma    227

If I was Coach of the GA Order All-Stars, I'd be including in my training squad;

  • Loremaster
  • Freeguild Guard with Sword/Shield
  • Freeguild Handgunners
  • Kurnoth Hunters with Greatbows
  • Starseer Skink
  • Collegiate Arcane Battlemage
  • Auric Hearthguard
  • Hellstorm Rocket Battery
  • Fulminators
  • Vanguard Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows

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Burf    39

Nobodies gonna mention frostheart pheonix? Any general order list with casting should have at least 1, especially with how ridiculously good pheonix guard are now.

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someone2040    405

Waywatchers would be my dark horse pick I think.

Funnily enough, they're the only unit in the entirety of the compendium that actually got a buff (Ignoring perhaps removing the uniqueness on certain characters). They went from units of 3 for 80 points and battleline (Stupid min size and battlefield role if you ask me), to units of 5 for 80 points.

Compared to many other common shooters, the thing Waywatchers have going for them is that they are consistent. Many other similar units have restrictions to get the best out of them : stand still, have 20 or more models, buffs by the general, once per game abilities. The Waywatchers buffs for shooting are always on and always there. This makes them extremely reliable as long as you can keep them out of trouble.

They even have a smidge of combat prowess, and a decent enough armour save for a shooter (Especially combined with the -1 to hit if you keep them in cover). Not that they need it, but the Hurricanum can buff their Fast Shots as well (Ordinarily Deadly Shots are better for the unit, which is the opposite of the Waywatcher character).

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swarmofseals    303

Just some comments on what's been posted so far, slanted toward mathhammer:

1. Bretonnian Lord on Pegasus - fast but mediocre damage efficiency (even against monsters when charging!), nothing special here I think.

2. Grail Knights - Solid on the charge against demons/death but otherwise mediocre

3. Cannons + Gunsmith / Trebuchet - Also mediocre damage efficiency but tactically useful due to long range and high rend. Also questionable due to how fragile they are, dropping off tremendously if the crew takes just a single wound.

4. Phoenix Guard - Reasonable offensive efficiency for tanky infantry and very good defensive efficiency. Definitely a strong candidate.

5. Freeguild Guard with sword and board - Really excellent defensive efficiency. One of the strongest defensive battleline choices.

6. Celestial Hurricanum - Hard to argue with this one, and hard to quantify its value because of the prominence of the support abilities. Reasonable offensive efficiency at range just with Comet/Storms of Shemtek. A big liability in terms of defensive efficiency. 

7. Judicators with Bows - Mediocre offensive and pretty bad defensive efficiency, but offense drops off less as the unit takes damage than normal because more than half of the unit's offense is tied up in the champion.

8. Vanguard Hunters with Longstrike Crossbows - Very similar (mediocre) offensive efficiency when compared with everything else on the list, and very bad defensive efficiency. Gets a lot better if you can get a bonus to hit.

9. Concussors - Good defensive efficiency against rend 0, pretty bad against rend though. Poor offensive efficiency. 

10. Fulminators - Solid but short range lightning attack. Inefficient except up close, but still a noteworthy ability. Reasonable offensive efficiency on the charge, bad otherwise. Good to great defensive efficiency against rend 0 (especially shooting), less good against rend (really bad against mortal wounds).

11. Tempestors - Decent ranged efficiency at very short range, but bad melee efficiency. Similar story to Concussors and Fulminators defensively. Significant utility though with the Concentrate Fire ability.

12. Drycha Hamadreth - If you can get her in range, squirmlings is great against hordes and flitterfuries is great against MSU. Hard to quantify.

13. Kurnoth Greatbows - Long range and OK defense against melee if not moving, but really bad damage efficiency. 

14. Skinks - good ranged efficiency and great defensive efficiency. Fast for infantry, too. Definitely worthy of consideration.

15. Handgunners - shorter range is more of a problem with slower movement and bonuses for staying still, but even on the move at minimum size these guys are still similar efficiency to the Cannon combo, Trebuchet etc. In larger numbers and standing still they are REALLY good, and even better if buffed further. Definitely worth considering. Defensively they are not great, which makes them a bit of a liability against longer ranged shooting.

16. Vanguard Crossbows - Better than Longstrikes in terms of efficiency, but only if they are standing still. Similar offensive efficiency to skinks but absolutely atrocious defensive efficiency.

17. Auric Hearthguard - Very good ranged efficiency, although at short range. Very bad defensive efficiency. 

18. Vulkite Berzerkers - Mediocre offensive efficiency when charging and atrocious offensive efficiency when not charging. Insanely good defensive efficiency in a large unit that falls off somewhat as the unit takes damage. Awkward because they are slow and on 32mm bases with a 1" attack. You really want them in a massive regiment for them to be good defensively, but that also makes it really hard not to have many models idle and unable to get into range. Much better in Fyreslayers than mixed order, I think.

19. Repeater Bolt Thrower - Good range and medium offensive efficiency. Significantly better than Cannons/Bow Kurnoths/Trebuchet. Still exceptionally fragile though as crewed artillery.

20. Frostheart Phoenix - Speed and utility, plus mediocre offensive efficiency. Worst case scenario has decent to good defensive efficiency, best case scenario has batshit insane defensive efficiency. A strong candidate.

21. Waywatchers - Good offensive efficiency with fast shots, great if you can get +1 to hit. Very good offensive efficiency with precise shots. Offensive efficiency is actually the same for each type of shot with +1 to hit -- fast shots will be better against light armor, precise better against heavy armor (albeit less consistent). Bad defensive efficiency that improves dramatically if they are in cover. Note that these are no longer battleline. 

 

 

 

 

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Davariel    255

I'd be giving strong consideration to the Dragonlord as a straight up beatstick, probably with a shield.

A Warrior Priest with shield might be fun as a cheap 3+ save chaff unit that can also heal himself.

Also worth mentioning is the Bret Enchantress. 60 points more than your average wizard gets you great all around stats, a second cast/unbind, self healing... and the ability to re-roll a failed cast each turn (read: mystic shield). Unless you really need another wizard's unique spell she'd be my first pick for a caster in an Order force.

And if you do take an Enchantress, Grail Knights might be worth thinking about too since she can give them +1 to hit AND re-rolls to hit... :D

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MrCharisma    227
On 9/11/2017 at 3:33 PM, Burf said:

Nobodies gonna mention frostheart pheonix? Any general order list with casting should have at least 1, especially with how ridiculously good pheonix guard are now.

I've been using this bad boy for the last month and it's outstanding!

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