Let's Chat: Ironweld Arsenal

[oscisi]

Just finished reading the long post about MP. Haven't seen the book yet so most of it didn't make sense yet, but there definitely seems to be potential for us IA enthusiasts. Thanks for putting it together.

@Double Misfire are you planning to write that Ironweld Arsenal Tactics post you've been mentioning? 

[Origin]

@Double Misfire Mate, this thread is awesome. Well done. You've inspired me to dust off all things gun powder.

[Origin]

Question regarding artillery crews.

Lets say I have two cannons and they are deployed so that both crews are within 1" of both cannons, I then lose 1 of the cannon crews to shooting or whatever. Can the single crew fire both cannons? 

It is a bit iffy because the warscrolls for both cannon and crew are seperate but purchased together and the text makes reference to 'it's' crew, does this mean the cannon crew's warscroll or the crew that comes with the cannon's purchase? Becasue if it is referring to the Cannon Crew warscroll then I see no reason both cannons cannot be fired.

On a similar note, although it is clear that there is a difference between crews on the different warmachines it would have been really nice if there was a generic Ironweld Arsenal crew warscroll so they could move from machine to machine as needed.

[Double Misfire]

3 hours ago, oscisi said:

Just finished reading the long post about MP. Haven't seen the book yet so most of it didn't make sense yet, but there definitely seems to be potential for us IA enthusiasts. Thanks for putting it together.

@Double Misfire are you planning to write that Ironweld Arsenal Tactics post you've been mentioning? 

Thanks dude. I just got home after playing my first Malign Portents game and definitely would have won if I hadn't been more focused on protecting and resurrecting my cannon than my heroes (we were playing Dark Omens and I needed them to win the battleplan). Shooting twice and hitting on 3s with the Ordinator was worth it though. Took out a Lord of Change in a single round!  

The dreaded tactics post... I'm going to be honest and say that I haven't started writing it yet because I've both been busy with work and haven't played many games of AoS (the two somehow go hand in hand ). With the Dread Solstice global campaign coming up I'm going to be trying to get as many games in as I can, so expect a tactics post in a few weeks when I've settled back into a bit more of a gaming groove.

 

2 hours ago, Origin said:

@Double Misfire Mate, this thread is awesome. Well done. You've inspired me to dust off all things gun powder.

Thank you very much, may your cannonballs never roll 1s to wound!

 

48 minutes ago, Origin said:

Question regarding artillery crews.

Lets say I have two cannons and they are deployed so that both crews are within 1" of both cannons, I then lose 1 of the cannon crews to shooting or whatever. Can the single crew fire both cannons? 

It is a bit iffy because the warscrolls for both cannon and crew are seperate but purchased together and the text makes reference to 'it's' crew, does this mean the cannon crew's warscroll or the crew that comes with the cannon's purchase? Becasue if it is referring to the Cannon Crew warscroll then I see no reason both cannons cannot be fired.

On a similar note, although it is clear that there is a difference between crews on the different warmachines it would have been really nice if there was a generic Ironweld Arsenal crew warscroll so they could move from machine to machine as needed.

The wording's a bit iffy I'll agree, "it's CREW" would imply the rule refers to the crew the cannon comes with, and that's the way I've always played it, but it specifically uses the CREW keyword and so could be interpreted either way. Crewed artillery would become marginally more survivable if it worked like this, possibly something to contact the faq team about?

I agree about a generic crew warscroll similar to Skink Handlers. That way we could shell out on larger/spare crews and have to worry less about them getting shot off.

[someone2040]

51 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

The wording's a bit iffy I'll agree, "it's CREW" would imply the rule refers to the crew the cannon comes with, and that's the way I've always played it, but it specifically uses the CREW keyword and so could be interpreted either way. Crewed artillery would become marginally more survivable if it worked like this, possibly something to contact the faq team about?

I agree about a generic crew warscroll similar to Skink Handlers. That way we could shell out on larger/spare crews and have to worry less about them getting shot off.

It doesn't actually use the keyword, it uses unbolded 'Crew' when mentioning the crew in rules.

My interpretation (for all war machines) is that only the crew it came with can actually crew it. Skink handlers specifically are different as you purchase them separately in matched play.

I mentioned this in the Grot War Artillery thread, but kinda wish all the war machines were just combined profile (and the crew just being there for aesthetic purposes). It would make War machines more survivable (Can't just be picked off by a random Star Drake shower) as well as remove the uncertainty around whether or not they're separate units for deployment, targeting, wound allocation, etc (Some people still seem to believe they're not separate units).

 

Anyway, think this is the first time I've said anything in this thread. So awesome thread you've got here, been reading your content for a while now

[Double Misfire]

11 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

It doesn't actually use the keyword, it uses unbolded 'Crew' when mentioning the crew in rules.

My interpretation (for all war machines) is that only the crew it came with can actually crew it. Skink handlers specifically are different as you purchase them separately in matched play.

I mentioned this in the Grot War Artillery thread, but kinda wish all the war machines were just combined profile (and the crew just being there for aesthetic purposes). It would make War machines more survivable (Can't just be picked off by a random Star Drake shower) as well as remove the uncertainty around whether or not they're separate units for deployment, targeting, wound allocation, etc (Some people still seem to believe they're not separate units).

 

Anyway, think this is the first time I've said anything in this thread. So awesome thread you've got here, been reading your content for a while now

You're absolutely right, it said crew as a bolded keyword on the Cannon warscroll in the original Dwarf warscroll compendium, I'm showing my age! 

I agree that I'd much prefer that crewed artillery got a combined profile with the gun and all the crew on a large base together, roll on the Free Cities version of legions of Nagash.  

 

Thanks for the compliments on the thread, much appreciated!  

[Origin]

Got a 'sh!ts and giggles' 1k gig coming up so I thought it would be fun to drop some black powder fueled madness on the board for a laugh. 

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Lord-Ordinator (100)
- General
- Trait: Tenacious
- Relic: Pheonix Gem

Battleline
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)

Units
5 x Freeguild Outriders (130)
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (130)

War Machines
Steam Tank (280)
Helstorm Rocket Battery (180)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 61

If it ain't got a gun it is not in the list, and yes that means the Guard are being run with Milita weapons (pew pew).  Pistoliers and Outriders are pretty rubbish but they are good for a laugh. 

I really think the Steam Tank and the Lord-Ordinator are made for each other. The Ordinator fixes all the tanks issues, low rate of fire and poor to hit rolls, in combat as well as shooting. So with the Ordinator's help the steam cannon, when firing on 10+ model units has 2 shots hitting 2's, wounding on 2's with re-rolls of the D6 damage thanks to the 'More Pressue' ability. Plus being able to drop 4d6 (with rerolls) 3+/2+ steamgun attacks, AND the tank is big enough for old mate Ordinator to hide behind...

I see myself turn one using his Command trait on the Hellstorm for a sweet 6 shots but after that it is all aboard the Steam Tank train... Toot Toot!

[oscisi]

Awesome stuff.

Looking forward to seeing more battle reports in this thread

[Aezeal]

10 hours ago, Origin said:

Got a 'sh!ts and giigles' 1k gig coming up so I thought it would be fun to drop some black power fueled madness on the board for a laugh. 

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Lord-Ordinator (100)
- General
- Trait: Tenacious
- Relic: Pheonix Gem

Battleline
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)

Units
5 x Freeguild Outriders (130)
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (130)

War Machines
Steam Tank (280)
Helstorm Rocket Battery (180)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 61

If it ain't got a gun it is not in the list, and yes that means the Guard are being run with Milita weapons (pew pew).  Pistoliers and Outriders are pretty rubbish but they are good for a laugh. 

I really think the Steam Tank and the Lord-Ordinator are made for each other. The Ordinator fixes all the tanks issues, low rate of fire and poor to hit rolls, in combat as well as shooting. So with the Ordinator's help the steam cannon, when firing on 10+ model units has 2 shots hitting 2's, wounding on 2's with re-rolls of the D6 damage thanks to the 'More Pressue' ability. Plus being able to drop 4d6 (with rerolls) 3+/2+ steamgun attacks, AND the tank is big enough for old mate Ordinator to hide behind...

I see myself turn one using his Command trait on the Hellstorm for a sweet 6 shots but after that it is all aboard the Steam Tank train... Toot Toot!

Are you going to advance the steamtank side ways to better hide the ordinator?

[Origin]

It's called moving oblique... All the rage

[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, Origin said:

It's called moving oblique... All the rage

Sideways and oblique are not the same

[Redmanphill]

The most important question that hasn’t been answered: what base size do you recommend for my cannons and Organ Gun? I am aware that they don’t need them but I’d prefer if they had them, it’s more consistent.

[Aezeal]

2 hours ago, Redmanphill said:

The most important question that hasn’t been answered: what base size do you recommend for my cannons and Organ Gun? I am aware that they don’t need them but I’d prefer if they had them, it’s more consistent.

Any round base that fits.

[Double Misfire]

3 hours ago, Redmanphill said:

The most important question that hasn’t been answered: what base size do you recommend for my cannons and Organ Gun? I am aware that they don’t need them but I’d prefer if they had them, it’s more consistent.

I've stuck my guns on 60mm rounds, they fit the warmachine pretty snugly and give enough room at the sides to model on a few extras if you're that way inclined.  

(sorry about the rubbish photo!)

[Redmanphill]

2 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

I've stuck my guns on 60mm rounds...

Thanks, that looks like the perfect size.

[MacDuff]

I love the pile of cannon balls, but aren't they a bit big for that gun?

[generalchaos34]

So how many of you use Greywater fastness for your Ironweld? I can imagine an ordinator + hurricanum + greywater will level the map with lucky rolls.

[Kimbo]

So....For a few days ive tried to come up with a fun... but still good list that uses as much artillery as I possible can...I am not sure about this list AT ALL..and i need 400p more but i have no clue...2k is what i am aiming at!

 

so i would love some feedback on how to improve it...I have not bought any units yet...my overall theme is that i love the mix of units from alot of factions....so....what do you think guys? Does it have potential...are there better units that i have missed for the job?  kurnoth hunter as the dmg unit or Berzerkers as the meatshield?? Have i missed a vital part of a artillery army?

 

I understand that it might not win any big event..but i like to optimize a mixed order wih focus on artillery ?

All feedback is greatly appriciated!

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Gunmaster (80)
Gunmaster (80)
Ordinator  (100)
- General
Battlemage (100)

Battleline
40 x Freeguild Guard (280)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)

Units
3 x Skywardens (100)
3 x Skywardens (100)

War Machines
Organ Gun (120)
Organ Gun (120)
Cannon (180)
Cannon (180)

Total: 1600 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108
 

[Double Misfire]

9 hours ago, MacDuff said:

I love the pile of cannon balls, but aren't they a bit big for that gun?

Ha, I'd never noticed that before, good spot! He's a Dwarf Engineer I'd converted up at the very start of AoS in the compendium days, and is stood on a massive pile of cannonballs from the Empire Cannon/Mortar kit (about 10 kits worth) I'd found in a bag in my hobby room and had no recollection of how I'd acquired. Yes, they are much bigger than the balls for the 5th ed Dwarf Cannon in that picture. 

I haven't used him since the GHB2017 came out, but he'll likely soon get a repeater handgun slapped on his back so I can run him as a Cogsmith.

6 hours ago, generalchaos34 said:

So how many of you use Greywater fastness for your Ironweld? I can imagine an ordinator + hurricanum + greywater will level the map with lucky rolls.

I use Tempest's Eye because despite having themed my army around Greywater Fastness since the Season of War campaign, Greywater Fastness allegiance didn't include any of the non-Ironweld factions that made it up (seriously, Wanderers instead of Dispossessed? ****ing Wanderers?!), meaning that my guys had to relocated to Tempest's Eye (which contained pretty much my entire army's spread of factions, thanks GW!). I think I actually prefer the increased early game survivablity and threat range offered by Tempest's Eye, but that's personal preference and Greywater Fastness's bonus shots are still pretty great.

A Hurricanum would probably be overkill in a Lord-Ordinator lead army, as your Cannons will be hitting on rerollable 3s and your Organs guns on 2s anyway, so you're sinking a lot of points for very little in return. I'd recommend spending your points on the Artillery Detachment battalion from Grand Alliance: Order instead, for a second chance to get a sneaky round of shooting in in the hero phase, really doubling down!

58 minutes ago, Kimbo said:

So....For a few days ive tried to come up with a fun... but still good list that uses as much artillery as I possible can...I am not sure about this list AT ALL..and i need 400p more but i have no clue...2k is what i am aiming at!

 

so i would love some feedback on how to improve it...I have not bought any units yet...my overall theme is that i love the mix of units from alot of factions....so....what do you think guys? Does it have potential...are there better units that i have missed for the job?  kurnoth hunter as the dmg unit or Berzerkers as the meatshield?? Have i missed a vital part of a artillery army?

 

I understand that it might not win any big event..but i like to optimize a mixed order wih focus on artillery ?

All feedback is greatly appriciated!

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Gunmaster (80)
Gunmaster (80)
Ordinator  (100)
- General
Battlemage (100)

Battleline
40 x Freeguild Guard (280)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)

Units
3 x Skywardens (100)
3 x Skywardens (100)

War Machines
Organ Gun (120)
Organ Gun (120)
Cannon (180)
Cannon (180)

Total: 1600 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108
 

Solid list and very Similar to my own!  

I'd personally ditch the Battlemage, add three more Skywardens, put all the Skywardens in one big unit with drill cannons and volley guns, and add an Aether-Khemist and a Freeguild Griffon (so that your opponent has something pressing and worrying to shoot at on the first turn that isn't artillery crew).

If you've got access to Season of War: Firestorm use Tempest's Eye allegiance for a first turn charge on the griffon and added survivability/threat range on the Skywardens and artillery. Check out my tactics posts in this thread if you haven't already. You're on the right track.  

[Lardidar]

Just read through all this, excellent stuff. Eagerly awaiting the next part. Think I may have found my next army!

[Double Misfire]

1 hour ago, Lardidar said:

Just read through all this, excellent stuff. Eagerly awaiting the next part. Think I may have found my next army!

Thanks dude, welcome to the Arsenal! (don't expect to win too many games though )

[Oldmanlee]

Good tactic thread very enjoyable read 

my question is could you make a semi competitive list based round the steam tank now or is it not worth it ?

[Double Misfire]

14 minutes ago, Oldmanlee said:

Good tactic thread very enjoyable read 

my question is could you make a semi competitive list based round the steam tank now or is it not worth it ?

Thanks.

You could make a semi competitive list with the Steam Tank as a feature sure, and definitely should if you love the model. The Steam Tank gets a solid shot in the arm if it's stood near a Lord-0rdinator who's buffing your artillery anyway, but it's still a bit of a clunky hybrid unit that's ok at shooting and unreliable to rubbish at movement and combat for the matched play points you play so it would still be hard to build a list around one.

Steam Tanks are generally good for two things:

1. Literally blocking the line of sight to your artillery (and crews) in the first turn of the game before shuffling out of the way so you can shoot if you go up against another army with long range weapons. Look at the thing. Turned on its side it's literally a moving wall.
2. Being taken as part of the Artillery Detachment battalion and allowing your artillery another chance at shooting. This has got the potential to be extremely nasty combined with Greywater Fastness allegiance, giving each warmachine in your list two potential chances to shoot again, and meaning you'll average 1.5 (out of 4) artillery pieces shooting twice in the hero phase.

Beyond this you're probably much better off with a similarly priced mobile monster like a Freeguild General on Griffon acting as designated Arrow Magnet (I'm about to start experimenting with a unit of 9 Skywardens as mine), but if you want to use a Steam Tank, feel free to use it, it's only 280 points and by no means terrible - just be sure to use it as a part of your list and not build your list around it (you should be building your list around cannons anyway!).  

[Lardidar]

Allegiance: Tempest's Eye

Gunmaster (80)
Gunmaster (80)
Lord-Ordinator (100) - General
Freeguild General On Griffon (260) - Shield & Greathammer - Artefact : Phoenix Stone
Aether-Khemist (140)

40 x Warriors (280) -Double-handed Duardin Axes & Shields - Clan Banner
10 x Warriors (80) -Double-handed Duardin Axes & Shields - Clan Banner
10 x Warriors (80) -Double-handed Duardin Axes & Shields - Clan Banner
9 x Skywardens (300) - 3 x  Aethermatic Volley Guns - 3 x  Drill Cannons

Cannon (180)
Cannon (180)
Organ Gun (120)
Organ Gun (120)

2k on the button but now from your last comment I'm wondering if the griffon is needed as well as a skywardens, I'm not expecting to take home the GT but all my play is  regional tournaments and I thought this might just be a welcome change to the power five armies.
 

[Double Misfire]

Looking good @Lardidar!

The list I'm planning on experimenting with once I've got the 9 Skywardens I received for my birthday painted up doesn't have a big monster Arrow Magnet because it's a Hammerhal list with a lot of Hunting and Gryph-hounds and a unit of Reavers to tie enemy units up and speed over the battlefield with. I'd personally keep the griffon in that list because it'll also slow any enemy units it doesn't kill down by attracting their attention and locking them in combat.

Be sure to let this thread know how you do at any local events.